EPTOff-Season Rosters
Off-season roster moves
Links
- Liquibet Announcement Page
- Discord esports LR channel
- Spring 2018 LCK LR thread
- Spring 2018 NA LCS LR thread
- Spring 2018 EU LCS LR thread
Resources
Liquipedia:
2018 Esports General Discussion
| Forum Index > LoL General |
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Off-Season Rosters Off-season roster moves Links Resources Liquipedia: | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Catch up on the bracket here: http://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/Demacia_Cup/Championship/2017 Grand final tomorrow! Illaoi support RIGHT NOW! Edit: Day over. Restarts tomorrow with losers bracket final then grand final. Snake vs IG. Winner plays EDG in final. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Demacia always fun to watch because relatively unknown teams take out some of the bigs guys, there's just so much talent to catch a glimpse of. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Catch the English cast here: and here https://www.twitch.tv/opl_Casting | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On January 07 2018 16:22 chipmonklord17 wrote: Snake being good again makes me so happy. I miss the good Snake Damn u in for a shock once playoffs come :D | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On January 07 2018 16:44 AdsMoFro wrote: Damn u in for a shock once playoffs come :D I can't be shocked when they've been doing that shit for years | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On January 07 2018 16:44 AdsMoFro wrote: Damn u in for a shock once playoffs come :D Haha I was about to post the same thing yesterday  Sofm trashed the first game vs Bilibili, I don't think anyone else can make their counterpart look as much like a noob than this guy. He legit styles on whole teams by himself, he's even done it on some of the best LPL players/teams. Then in other series they just look like utter trash.Even though I'd never want Snake to go to Worlds, I want to see Sofm play on the international stage and show western junglers what insane aggression and bm can look like. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
https://dotesports.com/league-of-legends/news/longzhu-gaming-acquired-by-chinese-company-kingzone-19981 tl;dr, Suning owned Longzhu Gaming in LCK and Suning Gaming in LPL, Rito forced them to sell as per rules | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
![[image loading]](https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/HUPbn06HxHmRAfKW1SDv4kkuBq3pwbiP1yiF1srfak8/%3Fwidth%3D1426%26height%3D676/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/315534291062751234/399723591639498769/unknown.png?width=719&height=341) Here's their new icon. Full name Kingzone Dragon X. Short name KZ. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On January 08 2018 23:41 JimmiC wrote: YOUR CLICHED AND LAME. But seriously, it seems like it should be, but since no one really does it, it isn't. If that makes sense. It's cliche and lame to think Dragons are bad ass is what i meant, so everyone avoids it | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
It seems like their good players and teams left or died, and the regular season was already garbage. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On January 09 2018 02:59 JimmiC wrote: For watching a league of anything to me what is most important is balance, not how good the beat team is. In that way i expect EU to be much more fun to watch. Each week you wont know the winners before the games are played Can't agree with that at all. Low quality games and fiestas are frustrating to watch, even if they make the season more interesting because there are no clear favorites. It's why I hated watching the early days of NA LCS, way too many throws and people derping around. I also expect EU to settle down into a clear hierarchy again, even with the exodus, which wasn't that big. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On January 10 2018 06:14 Ansibled wrote: As long as my flair gets to live. Don't even know where flairs come from tbh so I guess it will :D | ||
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On January 10 2018 06:14 Ansibled wrote: As long as my flair gets to live. I wouldn’t be to worried if I were you lol ————> | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On January 10 2018 11:21 Slusher wrote: I wouldn’t be to worried if I were you lol ————> Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time... | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
I don't understand this marketing approach considering they actually tried to leave. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
edit: This may not be too big news but Jatt is stepping down from ingame casting to be on the analyst desk full time. Kind of bleak. I liked his tri-casts with deficio and Doa when he was still around. I know he's not the most loved caster but I do enjoy him normally. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
On January 11 2018 05:48 Numy wrote: Ocelote has always been pretty eccentric. I just take this as more of his kind of jazz. edit: This may not be too big news but Jatt is stepping down from ingame casting to be on the analyst desk full time. Kind of bleak. I liked his tri-casts with deficio and Doa when he was still around. I know he's not the most loved caster but I do enjoy him normally. I always thought Jatt said quite daft things during his casts, there are a lot of memes floating about for some of the worst examples, but in general I found his content a bit boring, though I do enjoy his voice and he's great at keeping the game interesting. God damn, I miss Monte and Doa so bad, I think I could cry. I want some quality banter with good analysis, nobody else comes close to it. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Doa and Monte just had great synergy, perfect counterparts to each other. Monte would give analysis, Doa would add the color casting, and they were not afraid to go off the script, especially when casting very boring games. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On January 12 2018 03:36 DarkCore wrote: they were not afraid to go off the script, especially when casting very boring games. Perfect for OWL xD + Show Spoiler + i had no choice the joke writes itself | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Perfect for OWL xD I've never watched Overwatch, is it actually boring? I do remember a lot of criticism on reddit that the game isn't really good for spectator,but I have no clue if the game is also simply not enjoyable to watch. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I personally don’t like overwatch but I don’t like counter strike either, so I’d say it’s more about me and shooters than overwatch. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On January 12 2018 06:58 DarkCore wrote: Fair enough, each to their own. There were times where I wasn't happy with Monte either, but I still sorely miss the duo. They were the ones who introduced me to pro LoL, from the days of CLG EU vs CJ/Azubu to the first time Faker ever got on the stage, and I'm pretty sure when they left, I started following the scene far less. I've never watched Overwatch, is it actually boring? I do remember a lot of criticism on reddit that the game isn't really good for spectator,but I have no clue if the game is also simply not enjoyable to watch. I've been watching it some for the first time this week and it has been a pleasant surprise, in the past I've only watched sc2 and league but so far I've enjoyed watching Overwatch too, nice change of pace from the games i typically watch plus the casting talent is pretty good. Also who dosent love some good old korean domination | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I also really dislike the time bank system I don’t understand why the team who wins faster doesn’t just win? But I remember time bank being super controversial when it first came out so they probably have tried other stuff and it was just the least bad, but as a casual spectator it feels really dumb. Anyway like I said earlier there are probably better people to appease than me, I’m just not that into shooters. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + RNG vs iG: G1: I don't think Dignitas had many baron throws of this calibre, one of the dumbest decisions I've ever seen. Poor Able as well, he must've just been following the calls. As some of you may know, RNG is currently fielding a deep line of ADC, despite having Uzi, the best CN ADC ever. My guess is that they're looking for a good replacement, either because Uzi is considering retiring (100% speculation), or they want a backup. So they're fielding them all to see how they perform. Able looked OK, picking Vayne was dumb, he was completely outclassed by Jackey, who looks very promising (although he was playing Klepto Ezreal, so...). Karsa looked good early, but he fell very far behind as the game went on, Ning was the better jungler for sure. On the other hand, it was very apparent that Xiaohu outclasses Rookie quite hard, you can't let that guy play Ryze, only player better on that champ is Faker, and only because of his playmaking, because Xiaohu has the champion's skillshots and laning down to perfection G2: RNG decides to field their old jungler, MLXG, who is a fantastic jungler in his own right. Also replace Able with Y4. RNG proceeds to dump on iG, who did not play well. iG uh, decided that Xiaohu's Ryze was not worth taking away, proceed to get pummeled by him. But only because Ming decided to remind us how godlike he is on Alistar, Jackey learning why Kalista without flash vs heavy engage is not fun at all. Did I mention already how Xiaohu is good at Ryze? Watch the laning phase, Rookie was lucky to make it out alive in the early skirmish. G3: Same lineup as the game before, not much to say. Again, iG decided not to ban or take away Ryze or Alistar while giving away Kalista, proceed to get dismantled. Overall a bit messy, but not too bad. Frosk hyped up iG quite big, but they fell short of expectations. If RNG can beat them with their lineup of rookies, then they can do it even better when Uzi is playing. TOP vs SNG: My friends, when one leaves gives Zoe and Kalista up two games in a row, one expects to lose the series. And so TOP did. SNG was allowed to run the exact same comp twice in a row, Taric/Tahm fill similar roles. TOP decided to run a similar comp to the one they lost with in G1, and promptly lost again. Awful drafting, especially this early in the season where you should be testing the waters. Also, Ggoong just isn't Xiaohu, his Ryze may be good, but it's not godlike. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Why can KT just not 'do it' and be the super team they're supposed to be. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
I think KT players were just far too overhyped. They were once the super elite but these days they just in the same tier as the strong. Yet people keep acting like they inherently better than others and somehow underperforming because they aren't crushing. Korea is just too competitive a region now for that kind of team to exist. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On January 17 2018 21:03 DarkCore wrote: RIP my first Liquibets, but congrats to Afreeca. They look really good imo, solid mid tier team that could challenge the better teams. Why can KT just not 'do it' and be the super team they're supposed to be. Their drafts are were pretty questionable. I feel like when they aren't playing KVS, KZ, or SKT they try to push the window of "How much can we style on this team?" Edit: Okay, Fantasy League is full. I'm thinking drafting tomorrow night at 01:00 GMT (+00:00) post on the messages for the league if you can make it and/or if we need to adjust for timezones. I'd like to get this done before Week1, otherwise we'll wait till after. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On January 17 2018 14:03 NeoIllusions wrote: If you're talking about just pick/ban, Gamepedia still has them. Link is for LCK but you can navigate your way to other regions. Exactly what I'm looking for thanks | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
On January 19 2018 10:50 JimmiC wrote: Agreed, unless I do really bad, then I won't admit what team is mine! I see you'll be rooting for tsm this week i let myself go full tl homer this time hopefully works out but disappointment is all too familiar with me when it comes to TL | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On January 19 2018 12:13 Gahlo wrote: It's best game, so you can have both. Or you always have a reason to be mad. Shame I did not notice this btw, would have liked to participate in a fantasy league. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On January 20 2018 03:53 JimmiC wrote: It's best of ones so it will be hard for me to have both, if was best of three and went 3 games I guess its possible. Or is it like best game of the entire weekend? That seems odd. idk. The only option it gave me was best game, but in the projections for teams, some of them are listed as being projected for 2 wins - leaving me confused. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On January 20 2018 11:17 dsyxelic wrote: They get 2 games. I think they kept the 'best game' terminology since it was used last season and they were too lazy to change stuff. Just need to hide the the other option lol There was no other option listed. They just need to get rid of that entirely. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
On January 21 2018 04:07 Gahlo wrote: There was no other option listed. They just need to get rid of that entirely. Yeah I know. I was not saying you need to hide the other option, was saying that all the developers needed to do was hide the other option that was available last season. Much easier to 'implement' by just removing access to one older option. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
I'll clear things up. Get your popcorn ready, guys. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
https://media.weibo.cn/article?id=2309404204108344129051&jumpfrom=weibocom Link in Chinese* | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On February 05 2018 22:58 AdsMoFro wrote: GODV sued for 4.7 mil for breaching streaming contract with Douyu https://media.weibo.cn/article?id=2309404204108344129051&jumpfrom=weibocom Link in Chinese* Wait are you talking $ there? | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Yep, USD. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
I like how febiven has the only losses for the week but I still have low af points because c9 and tl decided to just quickly off their opponents meanwhile in EU i see adc's averaging 600+ cs this week and supports averaging 100+ cs lul i assume godv has enough money to pay that off? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On February 06 2018 02:10 JimmiC wrote: My fantasy LoL skills are impressively bad! Gahlo, big battle for the bottom incoming, I feel like my team might be turning the corner! Heh, I'm usually better at this but I wnet into this split completely blind. It's okay, I'll probably end up with more wins than the Golden Guardians. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
i assume godv has enough money to pay that off? I imagine so, streaming in CN is quite lucrative. If Qtpie can make a million a year, how much can someone who rakes in 10-20 times as many viewers make? But even for him, I expect it's a substantial chunk of money. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On February 08 2018 14:57 AdsMoFro wrote: Meanwhile, the Shotcaller says that Santorin is being benched and Caedrel is role swapping. I guess H2k tryna show they care a little to see if they can scrape through to franchising. That second sentence could be the headline for their whole season. Although I highly doubt Riot will partner with them if they can chose others (which there will be). On a second thought, maybe H2k are realistic and only eyeing the compensation pay at this point. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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eagle
United States693 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 15 2018 18:41 eagle wrote: Piglet back on Clutch Adcademy this week https://twitter.com/ClutchGaming/status/963947655880740867 With Piglet being back in America for Academy and Fly being back for LCS I wonder if that means Levi will be here shortly. I assume visa issues kept all 3 at their respective homes | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
On February 16 2018 02:44 chipmonklord17 wrote: With Piglet being back in America for Academy and Fly being back for LCS I wonder if that means Levi will be here shortly. I assume visa issues kept all 3 at their respective homes 100t already announced levi arrived before piglet's announcement | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On February 16 2018 02:50 dsyxelic wrote: 100t already announced levi arrived before piglet's announcement That's what I get for only looking here for information | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/f0eaf2cead5d9c09c30d27e000c7e73c.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/a9b3fa511698cbbd5929585737036f14.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/a29ac888ac6c189e8488a2baa09408a8.png) | ||
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Tainted Minds ruling expansion... | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/87aww1/formerly_renegades_remilia_on_her_interactions/?utm_content=title&utm_medium=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=leagueoflegends https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/87drs6/chris_badawi_with_an_explanation_of_what_happened/ | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
If Badawi was a nice honest guy I'd still have the same thoughts. Fact that we know he's not just makes it worse. Mental health is such a murky water that the concept of responsibility and fault is so hard to pin down. Is the dirtbag the one at fault even if no coercion was used? Is the girl at fault for making the decision? Are both partially at fault? | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
I think some blame lies on Maria but the majority of the blame lies on Badawi. We must first remember the kind of character that Badawi has shown time and time again. Lying about being a lawyer, threatening to take the one dream that she ever had if she didn't listen to him etc. He's in a position of power as the owner/manager of the team. Therefore, it is within his duty of care. For her, it is obvious she will say yes to whatever he says. Firstly, at this point, he's already threatened to take it away once. If she turns it down, is there a chance it will ever happen again? She's in an extremely poor mental state at this point, and who does she go and see next? Just happens to be Badawi's mother. The second question you ask yourself is why a person who is essentially your boss is offering to pay for and arrange your treatment an ethical process? Probably not. If he was truly altruistic, he wouldn't have put the onus on him, just would've said okay it will cost $10k, if we make LCS I will give you the 10k bonus and you can use it how you see fit. By taking control over her treatment he is essentially manipulating her into staying under his control. Bullshit like "I gave her her own room" and "special treatment" shows that he believes himself to be some sort of morally superior person when in fact it was just to keep her under his control. This fucker is slime of the worst type. If Monte couldn't realise that then he deserved to lose Renegades. Pretty tired, so excuse typos/general incoherence. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
This may be a cultural thing but I really dislike how little rights esports employees have over there. Essentially pressured into living with a bunch of people 24/7 while working all day with little to no progression in life outside of this one tiny avenue. It baffles me any of this is legal and why no one is making a fuss about this. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
Thing is, they have plenty of rights, they just don't have a good gauge on what they are and how much they can push them. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On March 27 2018 23:35 Numy wrote: That was pretty coherent to me Ads and I agree with it all. This may be a cultural thing but I really dislike how little rights esports employees have over there. Essentially pressured into living with a bunch of people 24/7 while working all day with little to no progression in life outside of this one tiny avenue. It baffles me any of this is legal and why no one is making a fuss about this. It is pretty extreme but if you want to keep being at the top you simply have to put in these kind of hours. I would not directly put that on the owners, it comes with the game per se. Also I am pretty sure many players (especially the younger ones) actually prefer to live in a gaming house and only focus on gaming. Simply because it costs them nothing and they do not have to take care of anything. I am sure players could live on their own if they wanted to and would pay for it themselves. They could afford it easily with their really good salary but just prefer to save that money and effort. After all these are not your average college students, it is hardcore gamers that have lived in that rather extreme and narrow way for years before LCS. Now within an LCS team they probably live a healthier live than before. Regarding the Badawi stuff, I will just trust respected people like MarkZ, Travis and Kelsey Moser that have more inside knowledge than any of us and all say he is a conniving scumbag that should not be allowed near esports. I am also really sorry for Remilia but I feel that is more a personal issue than an esports issue and does not really belong in the public (other than Badawi being disposed of which Riot already did). | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 27 2018 22:49 AdsMoFro wrote: The short version of my opinion on this: I think some blame lies on Maria but the majority of the blame lies on Badawi. We must first remember the kind of character that Badawi has shown time and time again. Lying about being a lawyer, threatening to take the one dream that she ever had if she didn't listen to him etc. He's in a position of power as the owner/manager of the team. Therefore, it is within his duty of care. For her, it is obvious she will say yes to whatever he says. Firstly, at this point, he's already threatened to take it away once. If she turns it down, is there a chance it will ever happen again? She's in an extremely poor mental state at this point, and who does she go and see next? Just happens to be Badawi's mother. The second question you ask yourself is why a person who is essentially your boss is offering to pay for and arrange your treatment an ethical process? Probably not. If he was truly altruistic, he wouldn't have put the onus on him, just would've said okay it will cost $10k, if we make LCS I will give you the 10k bonus and you can use it how you see fit. By taking control over her treatment he is essentially manipulating her into staying under his control. Bullshit like "I gave her her own room" and "special treatment" shows that he believes himself to be some sort of morally superior person when in fact it was just to keep her under his control. This fucker is slime of the worst type. If Monte couldn't realise that then he deserved to lose Renegades. Pretty tired, so excuse typos/general incoherence. The issue for me, however, lies with the fact that you have essentially made the case that such a person is unemployable (no matter their talent), and caveat emptor on anyone who does employ them (and even generally interacts with them). I actually don't disagree with that as someone who has to give advice on employing people. Not that you shouldn't employ trans people, but that its not prudent to employ young people who are not adjusted to their meds. My problem here is that then we would have the same article, but instead it would say, "Badwai is transphobic, dropped player after discovering new hormone treatments and desire to transition." | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 28 2018 01:01 Redox wrote: It is pretty extreme but if you want to keep being at the top you simply have to put in these kind of hours. I would not directly put that on the owners, it comes with the game per se. Also I am pretty sure many players (especially the younger ones) actually prefer to live in a gaming house and only focus on gaming. Simply because it costs them nothing and they do not have to take care of anything. I am sure players could live on their own if they wanted to and would pay for it themselves. They could afford it easily with their really good salary but just prefer to save that money and effort. After all these are not your average college students, it is hardcore gamers that have lived in that rather extreme and narrow way for years before LCS. Now within an LCS team they probably live a healthier live than before. I do question if you do have to put in those hours to be on top or if people are really just wasting so much time because there is no real limit forced on them. How many of those "10 hours a day" are being used in efficient manner? If they instead did 6-8 hours a day at a high intense effective manner would that be worse? I don't know the answer to these questions but I do feel they should be looked at. Maybe some do prefer it, maybe some don't but due to it being the way it is they do it. Maybe others believe they like it like it is but if given support would actually land up enjoying it another way. Again it's so hard to tell. At the end of the day I just can't help shake the feeling that esports has been set up in a way that's more akin to sweatshop exploitation disguised as being generous over a good sustainable model that will help serve these players and the industry as a whole better down the line. I'm a huge fan of empowering employees with more than just the job, helping them develop skills while working for you that elevates them and helps them progress. I'm sad I don't see any of this really happening in esport. edit: I should mention this is obviously tied into how much absurd money there is in the industry right now. When people are scrapping by I can understand focusing more on the here and now. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 28 2018 01:42 Numy wrote: I do question if you do have to put in those hours to be on top or if people are really just wasting so much time because there is no real limit forced on them. How many of those "10 hours a day" are being used in efficient manner? If they instead did 6-8 hours a day at a high intense effective manner would that be worse? I don't know the answer to these questions but I do feel they should be looked at. Maybe some do prefer it, maybe some don't but due to it being the way it is they do it. Maybe others believe they like it like it is but if given support would actually land up enjoying it another way. Again it's so hard to tell. At the end of the day I just can't help shake the feeling that esports has been set up in a way that's more akin to sweatshop exploitation disguised as being generous over a good sustainable model that will help serve these players and the industry as a whole better down the line. I'm a huge fan of empowering employees with more than just the job, helping them develop skills while working for you that elevates them and helps them progress. I'm sad I don't see any of this really happening in esport. edit: I should mention this is obviously tied into how much absurd money there is in the industry right now. When people are scrapping by I can understand focusing more on the here and now. This is the nature of esports trying to professionalize before the money really is there, and because of that they have focused on streaming/live tv rights instead of ticket sales. Every other sport had similar problems. Most players in baseball, football, basketball, etc had second jobs. Even many umpires and refs in the NFL, NBA, & MLB had 2nd jobs into the 90s just to stay afloat. Instead of pulling a 6-8 hour shift at Mcdonalds or a grocery store, Esports players pull a shift streaming. This makes them more money than flipping burgers or stocking shelves, but it is not the same job. It might be rolled into their inflated salary, but its not the same. So IMO its a total misperception that they spend all that time on their "job", which is being LCS pros. They are working a second job that just happens to also involve gaming. Until esports can play the worst players $1 Million a year, and extend the average career to 5, 6 years just for playing in stage games and scrims, then its not a professional sport. That is why you need to focus on selling out stadiums, gate revenue is how you get the TV contracts, not the other way around. Most pro sports got most revenue from gate until the late 90s, and baseball still gets more from gate IIRC. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On March 28 2018 03:01 cLutZ wrote: This is the nature of esports trying to professionalize before the money really is there, and because of that they have focused on streaming/live tv rights instead of ticket sales. Every other sport had similar problems. Most players in baseball, football, basketball, etc had second jobs. Even many umpires and refs in the NFL, NBA, & MLB had 2nd jobs into the 90s just to stay afloat. Instead of pulling a 6-8 hour shift at Mcdonalds or a grocery store, Esports players pull a shift streaming. This makes them more money than flipping burgers or stocking shelves, but it is not the same job. It might be rolled into their inflated salary, but its not the same. So IMO its a total misperception that they spend all that time on their "job", which is being LCS pros. They are working a second job that just happens to also involve gaming. Until esports can play the worst players $1 Million a year, and extend the average career to 5, 6 years just for playing in stage games and scrims, then its not a professional sport. That is why you need to focus on selling out stadiums, gate revenue is how you get the TV contracts, not the other way around. Most pro sports got most revenue from gate until the late 90s, and baseball still gets more from gate IIRC. I dont understand this post at all. LCS players easily make enough money to be called pro. They make more money than they need because they dont spend much and I would guess like 90% of net income goes straight to the bank and will never be used until after the career. In fact I believe current wages are too high to be sustainable. Also most players dont stream or just sporadically, so I dont know where you are coming from. And if they stream it is usually just their soloQ games that they play anyway. If they all streamed they would not have viewer numbers that would generate enough income to be relevant compared to their salaries. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
It is vital these that the esports industry doesn't make the same mistakes other professional sports does with their players by not giving them the skills and tools to actually have a successful life once they are out of the scene. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On March 28 2018 03:52 Redox wrote: I dont understand this post at all. LCS players easily make enough money to be called pro. They make more money than they need because they dont spend much and I would guess like 90% of net income goes straight to the bank and will never be used until after the career. In fact I believe current wages are too high to be sustainable. Also most players dont stream or just sporadically, so I dont know where you are coming from. And if they stream it is usually just their soloQ games that they play anyway. If they all streamed they would not have viewer numbers that would generate enough income to be relevant compared to their salaries. I don't think we are too far apart, I also think salaries are in a bubble, but I don't think they are so high as to really justify the investment players have to make yet. These sentiments are not in opposition. Salaries can bee too high for the amount of non-VC money coming in (they are) while still not being high enough for most pros to live off the earnings forever (particularly if its not considered impressive work EXP on a resume, which I don't think it yet is). I always find lots of people streaming, but perhaps that is a bias because I don't enjoy player streams so I notice them a lot when they exist. If they are playing soloQ for hours without streaming, then I would just generally agree the sentiment that a lot of them waste time that would be better spent not playing LOL. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On March 27 2018 22:49 AdsMoFro wrote: The short version of my opinion on this: I think some blame lies on Maria but the majority of the blame lies on Badawi. We must first remember the kind of character that Badawi has shown time and time again. Lying about being a lawyer, threatening to take the one dream that she ever had if she didn't listen to him etc. He's in a position of power as the owner/manager of the team. Therefore, it is within his duty of care. For her, it is obvious she will say yes to whatever he says. Firstly, at this point, he's already threatened to take it away once. If she turns it down, is there a chance it will ever happen again? She's in an extremely poor mental state at this point, and who does she go and see next? Just happens to be Badawi's mother. The second question you ask yourself is why a person who is essentially your boss is offering to pay for and arrange your treatment an ethical process? Probably not. If he was truly altruistic, he wouldn't have put the onus on him, just would've said okay it will cost $10k, if we make LCS I will give you the 10k bonus and you can use it how you see fit. By taking control over her treatment he is essentially manipulating her into staying under his control. Bullshit like "I gave her her own room" and "special treatment" shows that he believes himself to be some sort of morally superior person when in fact it was just to keep her under his control. This fucker is slime of the worst type. If Monte couldn't realise that then he deserved to lose Renegades. Pretty tired, so excuse typos/general incoherence. As a medical professional, I would never EVER recommend having surgery (outside of emergency circumstances) without an exhaustive research of the surgeon, anesthetist, CRNA, and hospital. I get that Badawi is a skeezy person and likely was manipulative in various ways in order to be on the hook for a “cheap” surgery. That said, he in no way could force her into that specific surgery. I’ve done surgery paperwork, it’s long; and if I have a hint of the responsible party being confused, then the surgeon gets pissed because he has to make another visit to explain things. I can’t imagine that it’s terribly different in other countries. Plus if she had done any research, she would know that Costa Rica, Brasília, and other countries that are plastic surgery harbors can have numerous sketchy issues (most notably infection). Idk, maybe she was just unlucky with the surgery; that happens too. I have a really difficult time putting even a majority of the blame on Badawi on this one. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On March 28 2018 06:34 JimmiC wrote: Sometimes people need to take personal responsibility for their actions including financially. There is a human condition seemingly where people spend what they make and in pro sports and esports that number is not usually sustainable. This is not the fault of the industry but on the individual to realize this and budget accordingly. It is like lottery winners blaming the lottery for them blowing their money, I get it to some degree but on the other hand not everything is someone else's fault. At some point people have to take responsibility for their decisions and actions. While I'm a big proponent of personal responsibility, I'm a bigger one of education. If we don't give people the skills and tools they require in order to have proper responsibility through education then that's a fault of the system. People do still make mistakes even while having all of these. That's all on them. However there is a fairly large portion of any population(Especially NFL/NBA athletes) who are not taught or given these tools. Instead they have a brief period of insane earnings, adjust their lifestyle to match which is just human nature but afterward they have no financial no how or planning to have income streams set up after that. I do not agree that it's all their fault for this situation. How exactly were they expected to know what to do? They had a very defined niche skillset, that skillset was not managing money or business planning. So in the nutshell all I'm saying is education and setting up programs designed to help individuals set up their lives post their career is important. I think this kind of education should happen in every single career too, just athletes tend to have a more defined early peak compared to most people. edit: To give a bit more context. I'm massively into the theory that education should be the highest level of important in society and by doing so it will help filter into a better society overall in other aspects. Education should also not be a one and done thing but instead a continual process we never actually leave. Life is constantly changing, to meet up with it we have to be constantly learning. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
sOAZ unable to play in semis, possibly finals as well due to hand injury/surgery. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
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JimmiC
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On March 29 2018 03:37 Sent. wrote: At first I was like "god fucking damn it", but they're playing against Vitality, so I'm not changing my liquibet. Yeah pretty much how I feel, really sucks for soaz and fnatic | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On March 29 2018 04:16 JimmiC wrote: Do you think it is true that G2 sent a wrist assassin to secretly injure SOAZ to keep their streak alive? No because even with Bwipo Fnatic would still win the split over G2 | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Well, this is interesting. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
NIP, Monkeys, Wind & Rain, and Origen confirmed attending. | ||
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Ansibled
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
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Slusher
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On April 01 2018 01:37 Sent. wrote: Assuming the rumours about Froggen and Forgiven are true, only top and support are unknown. Are there any unemployed legends from the past looking for a job now? People on reddit were joking about Piccaboo and Zorozero. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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AdsMoFro
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On April 01 2018 07:27 AlterKot wrote: Are there any rumors or confirmed info that Zorozero is actually playing the game? And that he's still good? IDC if he's not played since s3 or if he's hard stuck silver na like me. Just wanna watch him play lol. But afaik no. A season or two ago though he was playing again and got decently high elo i think. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
Was the InSec to OG thread a legit rumor? | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On April 01 2018 21:44 DarkCore wrote: Decently high elo doesn't really mean much though. Even a lot of Masters players aren't considered good enough for pro play, and they make up like 0.1% of the player base. Was the InSec to OG thread a legit rumor? Not so much a rumour as announced by Origen... | ||
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Numy
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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Ansibled
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
this is horrible. i dont even care if we lose finals, wishing the best for DL | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
This weekend I received some terrible news. My older brother attacked both of my parents with a knife. As a result of this attack, my mom passed away and my dad was seriously hurt and is now recovering in hospital. I'm still processing this news and joining up with my dad and little brother to make sure they're ok and the proper arrangements are being made. I'll likely be quiet on social media while I work through this. I hope you all understand and support me as you always have in the past. -DL | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
It'll be weird reading this in the news as well, since most of us have a vested personal interest in the guy. Poor DL... | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Rest in peace, SKT expect hopes and dreams. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
Props to Origen though, it looks like a good attempt at a revival with how much buzz they are creating. I was sure they were gone after their catastrophic failures. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
DL confirmed to play in Finals. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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Redox
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amd098
Korea (North)1366 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
 Went to university. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On April 14 2018 09:05 AdsMoFro wrote: Looper retired Went to university.Good for him. I was pretty annoyed with him on Echo Fox tbh. | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14277 Posts
ROX Tigers renamed to Hanwha Life Esports. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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AdsMoFro
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
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AdsMoFro
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This was pretty funny/sad. His comments on Kiin were hilarious and good insight into pb. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On April 16 2018 14:06 dsyxelic wrote: ugly name but hanhwa is a better sponsor at least in terms of brand name so I guess its ok? There were some talks (though I'm not sure how commonly known) of them being sponsored by Hyundai/Kia at the end of 2016 but it was in the middle of the Riot/LCK drama and I never really found out how close we were to that happening. Would have been a pretty hype name though imo. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Mickey to GGS. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
On April 16 2018 21:07 Ansibled wrote: There were some talks (though I'm not sure how commonly known) of them being sponsored by Hyundai/Kia at the end of 2016 but it was in the middle of the Riot/LCK drama and I never really found out how close we were to that happening. Would have been a pretty hype name though imo. woops just saw this and yes Kia would have been sick. mostly because they actually have a baseball team already called the Kia Tigers so it'd be pretty cool to share the same name. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On April 24 2018 03:06 AdsMoFro wrote: https://www.teamliquidpro.com/news/2018/04/23/farewell-mickey Mickey to GGS. well at least the team can't really get worse than they were last split | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On April 24 2018 07:02 dsyxelic wrote: woops just saw this and yes Kia would have been sick. mostly because they actually have a baseball team already called the Kia Tigers so it'd be pretty cool to share the same name. Now I'm sad... | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Play-in Draw for MSI in a little under one hour! | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On April 24 2018 20:06 AdsMoFro wrote: https://www.lolesports.com/en_US/articles/msi-2018-play-draw-guide Play-in Draw for MSI in a little under one hour! Choosing between Gambit and Rainbow will be tough, I just hope they get the VCS representative in the Play-In Knockout so they stand a chance of being in tournament proper. Supermassive is probably going to run train on group B unless Dire Wolves step up EDIT: With WhiteLotus' suspension up do we know if Rainbow will be bringing him? | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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Torchise
Canada245 Posts
https://www.dbltap.com/posts/6050120-ksv-esports-rebrands-to-gen-g 2 new names for the org in 1 year, pretty annoying. Plus they get a generic name along with the "GG" initials, like so many other teams/orgs (off the top of my head: Golden Guardians, GamingGear, Gosu Gamers, GGU...) | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
lmao | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Torchise
Canada245 Posts
https://blitzesports.com/lol/article/3384/riot-games-wins-sports-emmy-2017-worlds-championship-broadca | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
LoL on ESPN+. BAMTech deal dead. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
Riot is silly but they not ESL levels of dumb. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 26 2018 01:47 Numy wrote: To my knowledge the BAMTech thing was about a mobile app and not the youtube/twitch streams. I doubt we'd see them going exclusive on those platforms for a long time. The money they get from exclusivity has to outweigh all the exposure they lose and since the esports side is purely about exposure that seems like a terrible idea. Riot is silly but they not ESL levels of dumb. But that's basically the opposite of what the franchise model promised. They need massive broadcast deals for any team to ever be able to justify the investment. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
In fact, both of those are good ideas that could actually squeeze out a few sheckles. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
But it doesn't seem feasible solely based on ad revenue, hence why sponsorship is required. If a caster costs 50k, which is probably way too low, you'd need to rake in big numbers on each stream to break even, and the West simply doesn't have that viewer base. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Demacia Cup for some offseason pro league  LCK schedule out June 5th. Summer season of Liquibets to follow. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On May 31 2018 23:51 Ansibled wrote: What patch is Demacia cup on? No idea but Snake got sent out in straight sets. Letting down their fans early this split. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/Asian_Games/2018/East_Asia | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 01 2018 01:07 AdsMoFro wrote: Oh and this is coming up on the 10th. South Korea and Japan teams already announced. And um...North Korea is playing lol... https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/Asian_Games/2018/East_Asia Riot is going to fix Korea. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On June 01 2018 01:07 AdsMoFro wrote: Is there a source that says they are actually going to field a team? Or are they only listed because their NOC is part of the Asian Games?Oh and this is coming up on the 10th. South Korea and Japan teams already announced. And um...North Korea is playing lol... https://liquipedia.net/leagueoflegends/Asian_Games/2018/East_Asia https://www.lolesports.com/en_US/articles/league-legends-selected-one-esports-titles-2018-asian-games Due to the highly competitive nature of East Asia Qualifier - which includes China, South Korea, Chinese Taipei, Hong Kong, Macau, & Japan - the top three teams will receive invitations to the games. On the other hand, the article also mentions 45 participating countries. Assuming liquipedia didn't forget another country, the total number of countries including NK is 45. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On June 01 2018 01:04 AdsMoFro wrote: No idea but Snake got sent out in straight sets. Letting down their fans early this split. Snake lost to Aatrox top of all things. Sad days. In fact a lot of these comps seem really strange, even for China standards. I'm curious what patch they're on that gives such champion diversity | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14277 Posts
Amazing joins S04 | ||
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Gahlo
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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cLutZ
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De1HrE9UYAA-B46.jpg) | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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AdsMoFro
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Gahlo
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On June 05 2018 10:33 Gahlo wrote: Kiin, Score, Peanut, Faker, Ruler, and CoreJJ is South Korea's roster for the Asian Games Qualifiers, removing them from the first 3 series for their respective teams. RIP Gen.G and SKT They're also playing each other in week 1. Gonna be a shit show. | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14277 Posts
On June 05 2018 10:33 Gahlo wrote: Kiin, Score, Peanut, Faker, Ruler, and CoreJJ is South Korea's roster for the Asian Games Qualifiers, removing them from the first 3 series for their respective teams. RIP Gen.G and SKT At least SKT got a Mid sub to use in Pirean idk how good he will be though given he was okay in NA. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
I am seeing very little roster news. Even though its half season, I thought there were typically a bit more roster moves during past summers than what we've seen this summer? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
Leaguepedia just lists all changes including lower leagues which is not easy to read. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
- Griffin got in, kongdoo monsters got out. - Rox was renamed to hanwha life esports, I thought with the roster intact - KSV became Gen.g. You probably already knew, but whatever.. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 08 2018 00:42 Redox wrote: In Korea a few things changed right? Is there an overview somewhere? Leaguepedia just lists all changes including lower leagues which is not easy to read. https://lol.gamepedia.com/Roster_Swaps/2018_Midseason/Korea/Current_Rosters Green is added, red is removed. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On June 08 2018 01:34 Gahlo wrote: https://lol.gamepedia.com/Roster_Swaps/2018_Midseason/Korea/Current_Rosters Green is added, red is removed. Even that isn't entirely accurate, SKT has added Pirean and at least one other player I can't remember | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On June 08 2018 00:42 Redox wrote: In Korea a few things changed right? Is there an overview somewhere? Leaguepedia just lists all changes including lower leagues which is not easy to read. Article coming out tomorrow to help you  | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Anyone have an idea why this would randomly spring to the mind of Ms. Rand? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 08 2018 07:09 cLutZ wrote: https://twitter.com/leagueofemily/status/1004827612131127296 Anyone have an idea why this would randomly spring to the mind of Ms. Rand? Shower thoughts are one hell of a drug. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
A lot of traditional sports rules changes have a player safety aspect to them, balance does not. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 08 2018 07:36 Slusher wrote: I think it’s because players association sits in on rules changes for mlb,nfl etc but for esports this sounds like a really awful idea. A lot of traditional sports rules changes have a player safety aspect to them, balance does not. TBH, they don't really have a say on competitive rules. Just on stupid rules like what happens if a player gets arrested/PEDs. The NFL, for instance, changed the catch and kickoff rules just with 2/3 Owner votes after the "competition committee" (composed entirely of owners) recommended them. That IS a group that is worth consulting. Not players, but owners. | ||
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loSleb
Austria1389 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
Fucking. What? tl;dw - Starting roster: Licorice/Sven/Goldenglue/Keith/Zeyzal, Jensen/Sneaky/Smoothie moved to Academy. Hold on, lemme check the date. I think I might be time traveling. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Slusher
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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AdsMoFro
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geript
10024 Posts
On June 14 2018 08:00 Slusher wrote: I will assume it’s a troll until the draft starts on Sunday. Still a troll even if Saturday. Given the current state of the meta, maybe they're just planning on playing Taric/Yi or Nunu/Karthus or some other silly combination. That way, they can relegate goldenglue to Support #2 and don't have to worry about him being required to be actually useful. Plus, they may want to play Lulu/Vlad in the ADC role and maybe Sneaky isn't decent on those? IDK, seems troll but who knows. Could also be relegation for breaking team rules or something; not uncommon for teams to think like that. | ||
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dsyxelic
United States1417 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 15 2018 17:56 geript wrote: From what I’m seeing unless the Mid/Jungle duo is on a really hard carry duo and gets a few kills to start the snowball, then the double support meta ends up with a team that’s far more behind overall. If you’re going for that sort of comp, why not let mid play bot with the “ADC” while going for a snowballs champ like Brand/Zyra/etc.? Hell, you could have mid go bot and play Vlad and plus the ADC to support. Just seems like there’s better ways to commit to a snowball comp than we’re currently seeing in pro meta (other than a slight blip with SKT flopping Faker and Bang). What exactly is your proposal? There's no real benefit to roleswaps that screw up bot lane synergy | ||
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On June 16 2018 01:45 Sent. wrote: Should I stop liquibetting on SKT? yes you should | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On June 15 2018 18:16 cLutZ wrote: What exactly is your proposal? There's no real benefit to roleswaps that screw up bot lane synergy Right now in a meta with numerous picks that can be flexed between 3-4 roles where it’s important to have pushing lanes (to gain scuttle XP advantage and jungle pressure). Losing bot lane synergy may hurt, but you gain potential for great pressure in a snowball heavy format. Most supports don’t play mages well, most midlaner talents are wasted on playing Taric/Braum. If you’re going to play duo support and filter gold/XP on the jungler in order to snowball early, then it makes more sense to me to practice role swapping. To have support practice Taric/Braum mid and to have mid practice Brand/Zyra/Velkoz in bot. The meta pretty heavily favors snowballing right now and 8.12 doesn’t seem to change that. I personally don’t expect that to change much until maybe closer to worlds. Historically they seem to aim for worlds games to last about 30-40 minutes usually. Gaining favorable lanes is super important right now; there’s every reason to work on finding ways to pressure lanes even more. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Torchise
Canada245 Posts
Pretty much confirms that it was due to their attitude and slacking off, which Reapered said would lead to them not making playoffs if they stuck with them. So even if GoldenGlue/Keith/Zeyzal are much worse players on paper, you still need to punish Jensen/Sneaky/Smoothie for clowning around, even if that means you lose games doing that, otherwise you send the message that it is okay to not take their job seriously. Might motivate their asses to actually try hard if they start with a big game deficit this split, at least if they still want to make Worlds. Also, I wonder how Svenskeren feels now that the C9 fans have turned on C9 and started flaming the org (and even him) after game 1 on their subreddit and social media. He was all happy last split about being with C9 and praising the C9 fanbase for not being toxic towards him and passive-aggressively flaming TSM but I hope that he realizes now that sports/esports fans at large will turn on you on an instant the moment you lose or make a mistake and its not just restricted to TSM, no matter what Reddit/Twitter says... | ||
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LightningStrike
United States14277 Posts
Madlife retires. Another legend gone | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
A 'Madlife' was probably the first term I ever learned about in league.Was pretty sad to watch him get subbed out and replaced by some random NA support in his final pro split. | ||
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
Lustboy named head coach of TSM, Ssong moved to assistant coach(though the only real impact of this is who is on stage during pick/bans because Riot is a turd). Ssong will be taking a paycut for the rest of the year. I see people saying on reddit that Ssong won't be retained past this year, but I don't see anything in this article that explicitly states that. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On June 30 2018 21:58 Sent. wrote: I just watched the vod of Fnatic vs G2 and I'm curious why some teams put their mids on adcs like Kaisa or Xayah when running a funnel comp instead of having their usual adc player there. Is Perkz better than Hjarnan at his own position? Is there something about harvesting resources from the whole map that makes it easier for solo laners to play a superfed marksman than it is for adc players? Mids have some familiarity with marksmen due to Azir and Lucian rotating in and out of normal metas, along with the territory of mid lane from a laning perspective. Bot laners are super used to their own lane with a partner. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On June 30 2018 21:58 Sent. wrote: I just watched the vod of Fnatic vs G2 and I'm curious why some teams put their mids on adcs like Kaisa or Xayah when running a funnel comp instead of having their usual adc player there. Is Perkz better than Hjarnan at his own position? Is there something about harvesting resources from the whole map that makes it easier for solo laners to play a superfed marksman than it is for adc players? It's just who they most comfortable with having as sole carry. You see LCK teams switch their mid to bot lane and funnel into the ADC player in mid instead. In G2 case I think it's just that Perkz is the best player in Europe and a mechanical beast so they feel most comfortable with their oldest member and best playing the sole carry. I'm fairly sure it doesn't really have much to do with him being a midlaner as the play pattern of funnel is drastically different. It makes more sense to me in general to switch as we've seen ADC players across the globe be real shit on non-ADC champs. G2 is just a fairly unique case. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I barely watched any LCs this weekend so I’m not 100% certain but my gut tells me Meteos would be an upgrade on a couple of teams, Flyquest included. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
Problem with putting in Levi is you need to take out Ssumday or Ryu. I doubt you're going to take out a top 3(at worst) top laner in the league, so you're taking out Ryu for Linsanity. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
EDIT: Also FQ would be stupid to not start him EDIT2 ESPN-boogaloo http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=1-23968082 So 100T got Anda out of the deal | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
This feels like jumping the gun because of some pressure to play Levi - whatever it is, the main roster's play sure doesn't make that a clear issue. On top of that, it sounds like they'll be keeping Ryu on the main roster instead of Ssumday. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
1) He was already being benched next week at a minimum, this was announced a week ago, so saying it’s unfair to trade him to someone who won’t start him is not 100T’s responsibility 2)Didn’t tell the player, which is a big ?. Tell him before what? It was announced? Meteos announced it. Before the deal was done? According to Meteos himself the deal was finalized Friday so they told him as soon as this weeks games were done, to me that’s pretty reasonable to not want Your games this weekend to have that in the background. I will accept what is the point of this trade because I’m not sure either. I don’t really see what either team is getting, have to assume it’s a money thing, but like point 1 said if he isn’t interested in playing Academy he was donzo regardless. | ||
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Torchise
Canada245 Posts
And the second point is that Ssumday actually came off of his best NALCS weekend performance (as far as I can remember), so if they don't have a non-import substitute for Ryu, it sounds like a risky roster move... I guess in the long term, if the team decides to play standard or if the meta stop being a fiesta, Levi would definitely be a better choice than Meteos if they can resolve the import problem. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 02 2018 12:18 Slusher wrote: I guess I’m just tight about all the people complaining about the way it was handled 1) He was already being benched next week at a minimum, this was announced a week ago, so saying it’s unfair to trade him to someone who won’t start him is not 100T’s responsibility 2)Didn’t tell the player, which is a big ?. Tell him before what? It was announced? Meteos announced it. Before the deal was done? According to Meteos himself the deal was finalized Friday so they told him as soon as this weeks games were done, to me that’s pretty reasonable to not want Your games this weekend to have that in the background. I will accept what is the point of this trade because I’m not sure either. I don’t really see what either team is getting, have to assume it’s a money thing, but like point 1 said if he isn’t interested in playing Academy he was donzo regardless. I think 1 might be caused by Ssumday going back to Korea during next week. Maybe to renew his visa or something? I remember Bjergsen had to do something similar a while back... or some EU import did. At that point you have an import slot open anyway, so you might as well use Levi in the meantime. Either way, Flyquest must have something in mind or the trade doesn't even make sense. Agreed with 2. People coming at it from that angle need to get a dose of reality or find a new slant. I expect Meteos to be starting for FQ, otherwise I don't even make that trade if I were them. Only thing 100T gets out of it is starting Levi at the cost of shuffling unproven NA talent into their mid lane. Not something I see being worth it for half a split when they could way for end of season free agency to explore options. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
Also I wouldn't rule out Meteos not starting for FQ either. They have his contract now, they could literally force him to ride the bench for a split then sell him off if they really wanted to. This trade really doesn't seem to benefit 100T in any way whatsoever, so I'm curious what benefit they saw in giving up one of the most valuable players in the league | ||
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
tl;dr - Meteos asked to be traded and FQ was the best option 100T had. Will be starting Anda. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
People who believe the press release are still mad lol, they had to get an na jungler in return, which makes the only other option if you want experience clutch(moon) and he probably has a better chance to start on fly, even with the way Lira has played I get the impression his teammates have a lot of confidence in him. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
My guess is his main problem is that he has a strong believe in knowing better than coach and team mates, due to experience or whatever. And that leads to arguing for the sake of winning arguments and not being constructive. I think he will have a hard time finding another starting spot because teams will now be wary of his attitude problems | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
It just doesn't feel very human to trade a player without him knowing and kicking him out of his accommodation the next morning. They don't even have LCS right now so there's no reason to be so seemingly cruel. The trade itself is fine I think, just the handling of it is pretty cutthroat for a supposed "family" organization. edit: To put some context, firing an employee in SA is extremely difficult. Our labour laws are super pro employee almost to a fault at times. Seeing Meteos booted like this is in stark contrast to how our culture works. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
So yes I think it's cruel. Business ethics is all about balance the right thing with what is legally allowed. edit: Why does Riot fine teams for "poaching" by talking to the players without talking to team but teams can swap contracts without ever talking to player? Is it some weird Franchise thing? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 05 2018 05:40 Numy wrote: I dislike how they didn't communicate with him at all while getting rid of him 3 days after he asked to look at other options. Just feels like they were looking for the earliest possible moment to kick him and might have done it if RR went well anyway. It just doesn't feel very human to trade a player without him knowing and kicking him out of his accommodation the next morning. They don't even have LCS right now so there's no reason to be so seemingly cruel. The trade itself is fine I think, just the handling of it is pretty cutthroat for a supposed "family" organization. edit: To put some context, firing an employee in SA is extremely difficult. Our labour laws are super pro employee almost to a fault at times. Seeing Meteos booted like this is in stark contrast to how our culture works. You don't tell the player that you are looking into trading him. You run the risk of the player sandbagging the game out of spite or not trying because he isn't invested in those games anymore. From the player's side, going on stage knowing it's the last time you're playing with the team will suck. This was actually a great time to do it. Unless FQ has individual housing and then has an office facility for work, there should be a spot for him in a gaming house. Not only that, but he has 2 full weeks to move in and get comfortable. It's literally the best time outside of between splits. As for "family", that notion should be out of the picture when somebody has the power to fire another. Anything else is naivety. As a note: trading isn't getting fired, it's transfering of the playing rights from one group to another. On July 05 2018 05:50 Numy wrote: You can do something technically legal but still be immoral while doing it. I just don't think it's right to trade him a way without taking to him at all. Especially when he comes to you as an employer concerned about his place in the team and wanting to find other options for starting. Then telling him Sunday evening after he played for you that he must pack up and leave the next morning. Come now. That's just not a decent way to treat a human being. It's perfectly legal and within the contract but that doesn't make it right thing to do. So yes I think it's cruel. Business ethics is all about balance the right thing with what is legally allowed. edit: Why does Riot fine teams for "poaching" by talking to the players without talking to team but teams can swap contracts without ever talking to player? Is it some weird Franchise thing? Trading players has been in the rules for a long time now. Players have the options to negotiate non-trade clauses in their contract. This isn't anything new with franchising, just doesn't happen in League due to the size of the teams and the lack of in game substitutions. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
So what teams would start meteos that have an NA jungler with LCS experence to offer EF:no, TSM:yes TL:no CLG:no Fly:Yes Clutch:Yes GG:No Optic:Yes C9:No Ok lets check out those options TSM: This is probably the one that makes the most sense, and gives SOME credence to the Meteos fanboy conspiracy theory that 100T traded him to a bad team to keep the competition from getting better. I think Meteos is a clear upgrade for TSM, so we can just skip past that part and consider it from 100T standpoint. Grig has less LCS experience than Anda, but not nothing, at the same time, it's a small enough amount it's hard to get a read on just how good he is, so I can accept the premise that 100T coaching staff might just think Anda has more upside. Mike Yeung is just bad. OPTIC: So with Optic you have the option to trade 1:1 Akaadian for Meteos, this one really just comes down to how Optic views the player comparison, personally I think it's a win win for both teams if you consider Meteos as significantly devalued based on his request to leave, which I think you have to. Only other outside factor here is maybe 100T thinks Anda is just a better tank player than Akaadian, but the fact that this trade didn't happen tells me Optic just likes Akaadian better for whatever reason. Clutch: This seems to be the popular one you read about, but I also think it's the least likely. If clutch benches Lira they need a new academy adc so for the trade to make sense for them, they need to dump Lira, Febi is way better than Ryu so that trade doesn't really work for clutch and Ssumday is way better than solo so that doesn't really make sense for 100T. If you do trade for Moon straight up, then Clutch has to cut piglet and sign a new academy adc to bench Lira, which isn't the end of the world but it is an opportunity cost lost when you evaluate the trade. I think it also just feels bad to have an unused import slot at the moment. also Moon has a tendency to look better on teams who are mid focused (Fly) compared to teams who are bot focused (Piglet TL) so it's possible 100T just like Anda better. IDK I think if you look at all the options Anda was likely their only option. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
From what I'm able to gather it seems to me that the impression is if Meteos wanted to be treated like a human being he should have it had written in his contract. That's just too sad to me. Guess we have just given up holding decency as the default. Should just give up my dream of esport being something different, of trying to learn from the past and be better. It's all just a race to the bottom. I hate this world. Whatever there is just a huge fundamental different in viewpoint that I doubt will ever converge. ps: The obvious solution to the Levi problem is to get a sub for the worst performing member of your team, Ryu. He seems untouchable for some reason. Optic even just benched Akaadian. You can't assume 100T even properly looked around since the timeframe was 3 days. It seems more plausible that they had this trade in the pipeline already and just shifted up the timetable. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
The akaadian benching is irrelevant because Riot has stated they will nerf funnel into the ground if they have to Ryu is untouchable because as the worst import tagged mid in the league (except maybe fenix) making his market value essentially 0 The purpose of my post detailing all of the possible deals is that even in the event Meteos were to shop his own trade, this was probably the only trade both teams would have agreed to. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 05 2018 18:20 Numy wrote: From what I'm able to gather it seems to me that the impression is if Meteos wanted to be treated like a human being he should have it had written in his contract. That's just too sad to me. Guess we have just given up holding decency as the default. Should just give up my dream of esport being something different, of trying to learn from the past and be better. It's all just a race to the bottom. I hate this world. Whatever there is just a huge fundamental different in viewpoint that I doubt will ever converge. He had the chance to protect himself from this kind of a situation and chose not to. It's like complaining that you get fucked up in an accident when you don't wear your seat belt. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I just have a hard time feeling Meteos as the victim here he feels like he was a dick to everyone involved . It might just be another cultural thing, and Meteos has never had a normal job in America either so he has this excuse, but telling Your employer you are looking for other work here is, you may as well be handing in your resignation. But even in a situation where he could have worked the trade himself, I just don’t see any possibility aside from what happened. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
The practices employed by 100T don't seem that weird to me, especially in a competitive environment. Btw, I love the way deficio and jatt opened rift rivals, even though it's obviously prepared. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 06 2018 04:03 Yorbon wrote: The only interesting thing here for me is the trade that, if I understand correctly, happened without Meteos having to give his ok. That seems strange to me, unless there is a construction in which Riot employs all players or something. But maybe there are some rules I'm not aware of. The practices employed by 100T don't seem that weird to me, especially in a competitive environment. Btw, I love the way deficio and jatt opened rift rivals, even though it's obviously prepared. The contract between Meteos and 100T are for his playing rights, not direct employment. He only plays for them, they pay him. The trade is that of playing rights. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
That being said esports contracts have a bad reputation so who knows if this was written correctly. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 06 2018 06:50 Slusher wrote: So in theory a portion of his contract is dedicated to exclusivity so Meteos could elect to be a streamer and Fly would have to pay him that portion to do jack all until the contract ends or cut him. That being said esports contracts have a bad reputation so who knows if this was written correctly. If Meteos refuses to play he is violating the contract. FQ wouldn't be forced to pay him and Meteos would have to pay FQ an amount written in the contract for violating it. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
However, with franchising being involved with non-endemic orgs, I could see some teams being less friendly about this kind of situation. I'm sure FQ wouldn't be happy about going through with a trade they felt was positive for them to then have it end up in them giving one of their players away essentially. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On July 06 2018 02:15 Gahlo wrote: He had the chance to protect himself from this kind of a situation and chose not to. It's like complaining that you get fucked up in an accident when you don't wear your seat belt. I never really like analogies but let me give my viewpoint. So here the law is designed to essentially default protect the employee. In your analogy it's more like each person has to negotiate a seatbelt with the car company or pay less money for the car(I believe that's the tradeoff I've seen mentioned). Here it would be the law requires all cars to have seatbelt default. So as a family we've run some fast food franchises for last decade or so until selling. Often low level employees just vanish without notice and this is terrible. The high level employees however typically give a few weeks to a month notice, one of our very top actually gave us years notice of their plans to immigrate which they helped train a replacement eventually. What I'm getting at is giving notice is a good thing for a company. We can't just then say ok you fired because you're leaving. Meteos talking to them about leaving is good. The fact that Riot forces Meteos to do this should tell us how pro company it is. The fact that there is no enforcement of the reverse is the problem. In order to dismiss someone here(poor performance) you have to go through a process. The first step if formal warning of infraction or poor performance. Then you have to attempt to help the person improve performance. Next step is if they still poor you give them final formal written warning. Then finally can dismiss them. It's a long tedious process and sometimes frustrating as am employer but it serves a good measure to protect employees from shitty managers. I can't recall the timeframe but that's the gist of it. I have no clue how Sports works however, this is just trying to explain where my opinion comes from. At the end of the day there are two main differences I see here between most peoples opinion on this and mine. 1) Meteos should have had a contract that didn't allow this -> He shouldn't need the contract to specifically not allow this as this shouldn't be able to happen 2) 100T did everything by the books as a business -> Doing what is legally right isn't the only criteria for business I understand why people think differently and I get there are tradeoffs for having different legal approaches as well as culture surrounding this kind of thing. My personal views are just the tradeoffs aren't worth it for society in the long run. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I’m not in complete disagreement with the sentiment that contracts are org slanted, but if 100T can’t get a jungler in return for his departure they are really fucked unless it’s between splits. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On July 06 2018 19:38 Numy wrote: I never really like analogies but let me give my viewpoint. So here the law is designed to essentially default protect the employee. In your analogy it's more like each person has to negotiate a seatbelt with the car company or pay less money for the car(I believe that's the tradeoff I've seen mentioned). Here it would be the law requires all cars to have seatbelt default. So as a family we've run some fast food franchises for last decade or so until selling. Often low level employees just vanish without notice and this is terrible. The high level employees however typically give a few weeks to a month notice, one of our very top actually gave us years notice of their plans to immigrate which they helped train a replacement eventually. What I'm getting at is giving notice is a good thing for a company. We can't just then say ok you fired because you're leaving. Meteos talking to them about leaving is good. The fact that Riot forces Meteos to do this should tell us how pro company it is. The fact that there is no enforcement of the reverse is the problem. In order to dismiss someone here(poor performance) you have to go through a process. The first step if formal warning of infraction or poor performance. Then you have to attempt to help the person improve performance. Next step is if they still poor you give them final formal written warning. Then finally can dismiss them. It's a long tedious process and sometimes frustrating as am employer but it serves a good measure to protect employees from shitty managers. I can't recall the timeframe but that's the gist of it. I have no clue how Sports works however, this is just trying to explain where my opinion comes from. At the end of the day there are two main differences I see here between most peoples opinion on this and mine. 1) Meteos should have had a contract that didn't allow this -> He shouldn't need the contract to specifically not allow this as this shouldn't be able to happen 2) 100T did everything by the books as a business -> Doing what is legally right isn't the only criteria for business I understand why people think differently and I get there are tradeoffs for having different legal approaches as well as culture surrounding this kind of thing. My personal views are just the tradeoffs aren't worth it for society in the long run. Do you not pay attention to sports at all? This isn't a normal job. This is like one of your fast food employees telling you is he trying to get a job at Burger King and you're like well shit we need someone to fill your position so you talk to Burger King and swap employees. Meteos signed a contract to be paid to play, that contract was owned by 100T and they chose to trade his contract for someone elses contract. Players rights are negotiated by a Players Union for instance the NFL has the NFLPA (Players Association). If players want better rights it is up to them to have stronger representation in their PA to negotiate better contracts. I don't see any problem with what 100T did. The coach/GM of my favorite sports team, New England Patriots, has traded many STAR players over the years with no warning. You play a sport, Esport or physical sport, and this is one of the potential negatives. You do not always get to choose who you play for unless you specifically negotiate it. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On July 07 2018 04:23 Gahlo wrote: And contracts will continue to be as org slanted as they are until the players that their association seriously and, if needed, make it an official union. This is a /s right? I cant think of an American sport where contracts are more player friendly than LOL. Teams being profitable is still dependent on Riot magicing a few more broadcast rights deals together. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 07 2018 05:17 cLutZ wrote: This is a /s right? I cant think of an American sport where contracts are more player friendly than LOL. Teams being profitable is still dependent on Riot magicing a few more broadcast rights deals together. Maybe in concept they are, but in practice, not so much as they don't comprehend the rights they have at the negotiating table. Kids this young that probably never had a normal job are probably telling the agent "Try and get my a good team and a bunch of money." On July 07 2018 05:10 JimmiC wrote: Will probably always be Org slanted, in all the major NA sports unless a player negotiated a "no trade clause" they can be moved at any time. I'm sure since it is over here they will look to something to that. In football not all the money is guaranteed, rest they are. This means even if they stop playing a guy and can't trade him they still have to pay him. I'm unsure how it works with riot. So in that way it is player slanted. Who knows what Metoes signed, most (99%) of players hire a agent who they pay to make sure they get a fari deal and the most money/best conditions. I'm not sure if there are agents. But I'm really not sure what the big drama is about, this is a common occurrence in "regular sports" and Metoes is doing himself a dis service because unless he was so much better then others (which he is not) why would you sign someone who makes a big stink over someone who does not? No trade clauses already have a place in the LCS rulebook. It's illegal to have a contract with somebody who wants/is able to work, refuse them the ability to work, and not pay them. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 07 2018 07:22 cLutZ wrote: You are vastly overrating the teams' strength in negotiations. If this was the NBA and we extrapolated the revenue splits, its not likely any player would make over $200k, and that wouldn't include housing. Wasn't Impact's deal rumored at 1m/4 years? If the players have negotiation rights that they don't know about because they don't keep themselves informed, they effectively don't have that right in negotiation. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On July 07 2018 07:27 Gahlo wrote: Wasn't Impact's deal rumored at 1m/4 years? If the players have negotiation rights that they don't know about because they don't keep themselves informed, they effectively don't have that right in negotiation. That is what I'm saying. When you don't include the money Riot is making, LCS players get a larger % of LCS revenue than players in any sport. By riot's model, players are guaranteed 35%, which is actually 52% of the money teams+players have access to. Compare that to 48% in the NFL, and 50% in the NBA. However the 35% minimum has never been triggered in an LCS, so the player % of revenue is exceeding 52% of the team + player revenue. Although we don't really have access to the numbers, the salary leaks and team revenue leaks, despite being incomplete, indicate they are getting at least 60% of revenues, and its not evident that any team is currently profitable from LCS activity. https://dotesports.com/the-op/news/lcs-franchising-revenue-14975 http://proplayerinsiders.com/nfl-player-team-news-features/the-nfl-revenue-split-with-players/ https://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/10/13/report-nba-revenue-to-remain-50-50-split-in-new-cba-players-want-money-for-retired-players/ | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
also by the fact that he refrences NFL as being the only ones to not have guaranteed money (there are usually several different amounts of guaranteed money in a contract earmarked for different scenarios) I'm going to assume he means in the event of a team terminated contract, better known as cutting someone, because that is the situation where the NFL stands out.Basically the main situation where this plays out is 1)Player has a break out year 2)Teams signs player at inflated rate because teams think said year is the new norm 3)2 years into a 5 year deal, Player is nowhere near break out year level. In the NFL you can just cut him and you are good to go, you are only out the signing bonus and the seasons he already played. In Baseball you have to pay him the full contract even if you cut him. The only real way to cut down on your losses is to work it into a trade, but there are a ton of variations as to how that works so lets just say it exists. as an aside I should add the NBA has a rule where you can cut someone and their contract dissapears from your books, but this is only with regard to revenue sharing and the salary cap, the player still gets paid. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
P.S. Guaranteed contracts are actually more of an intra-player issue. Every dollar a cut player earns is a dollar an active player cannot earn. So, in essence, the cut rule really just protects active players over players that are not injured, but have fallen off a cliff in performance (cutting injured players still counts against the rev share as they must still be paid). P.P.S. The NFL system is also the best system for fans because it lets their teams recover more quickly from terrible management. See, contra, the Nets. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
ESPN reporting Altec and Adrian are gonna be released as well. With Lost (Academy ADC) coming up to the starting roster. http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/24185076/echo-fox-makes-multiple-moves-ahead-league-legends-trade-deadline Edit: Oh and btw, today is the day of roster lock. Gl Fenix! Good guy Rick Fox, am I right? | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
That Rick Fox is such a charismatic guy and does so much as an ambassador for esports to the traditional sports world. All around swell dude. /s | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On July 25 2018 11:37 Gahlo wrote: Just a note, Altec's gf said that he was given 6 hours to find a new team. That Rick Fox is such a charismatic guy and does so much as an ambassador for esports to the traditional sports world. All around swell dude. /s Could Altec find a new team given 6 years? | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Somehow...yes. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I mean when Doublelift got cut he was on TSM like an hour later I could definitely accept an argument to have like a week after the trade deadline before roster lock, but that isn’t on the org looking to trade up. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
So being released from his contract with 6 hours to go is awful, if EF does this constantly it hints at either incompetence or malicious intent. Only upside is that Altec probably has a good amount of money, so being locked out for a season isn't going to bankrupt him. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
CLG was a complete shit show and got tons of flak for how they handled the situation. You don't fire someone like that man. I remember for years I was saying Dlift and CLG should part ways but the way they finally did was just so ugly. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 25 2018 23:48 Numy wrote: It seems inline with what happened with Froggen. Froggen thought he had a spot with EF but come his contract ending they said peace and now everyone had already signed squads so he had no place to go. Why people still think EF cares is beyond me. Good marketing? It's the Rick Fox cult of personality. The fact that he's supportive of his son's hobby scores a lot of points with people who have parents that are less than sympathetic. Also, because he's an older athlete - making him a good ambassador to esports to media - is something people love to hype up. On July 26 2018 03:06 Slusher wrote: The point is just to say if there was a market for his services he would be on a team There is a market, since he was able to find an offer. Just decided it wasn't worth it for a team that probably isn't going to make playoffs - if it was even a starting role - to join a team for a few months. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Torchise
Canada245 Posts
On July 26 2018 05:24 Gahlo wrote: It's the Rick Fox cult of personality. The fact that he's supportive of his son's hobby scores a lot of points with people who have parents that are less than sympathetic. Also, because he's an older athlete - making him a good ambassador to esports to media - is something people love to hype up. Rick Fox gained a lot of support on social media with his interviews back when he first joined the LCS where he appeared well spoken and enthusiastic about entering the esports scene. I remembered he said that he was very invested in his team and that he treated his roster like a family. He looked approachable since he came to every match to support his team (never mind that it wasn't something revolutionary and Reginald and others came to monitor their team as well in the back scene). He also had streams where he played League with his son and looked like he had fun just learning the game so he appeared like a genuine, wholesome person. Nadeshot pretty much followed the same recipe and his team gained a following because of that as well. People praised Rick Fox as an idol and messiah that would save them from the "evil" legacy owners who joined up and "conspired" against new team owners to sabotage (we never got any confirmation or follow up on that, except from a salty Monte venting when he lost his LCS team). However, who is more likely to screw their players: endemic team owners who were in the scene for multiple years and were actually once players themselves (except for Jack), or the multi-millionaire new owner receiving venture capital backing to buy a 1 million+ spot in the LCS and expecting a big ROI to justify that investment? | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On July 26 2018 17:14 geript wrote: I really don’t see what the big problem is. While esports and especially LoL is a small world, it’s becoming much closer to sports in organization. In normal sports, players are a resource with relative clear values. If players aren’t worth their cost, they get cut. Altec doesn’t carry value as a player, he’s entirely replaceable. He doesn’t carry value in regards to bringing fans and profit through merchandise or streaming akin to DL, Bjergsen, etc. There’s little reason to keep him. It’s a business decision. Idk treating people like commodities is kinda a fucked up way to look at it. Even then, you can do that without being assholes and releasing them a couple hours before a deadline. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On July 26 2018 17:21 AdsMoFro wrote: Idk treating people like commodities is kinda a fucked up way to look at it. Even then, you can do that without being assholes and releasing them a couple hours before a deadline. I really hate how many people I've read justify shitty behavior as "that's just how sports does it". I wonder if it's some kind of culture clash. You can run a business, make profit and still treat people with decency. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On July 26 2018 17:46 Numy wrote: I really hate how many people I've read justify shitty behavior as "that's just how sports does it". I wonder if it's some kind of culture clash. You can run a business, make profit and still treat people with decency. I agree that you can. But the US economy is almost entirely based on using people like an economic resource. For example, I’m a nurse. For most corporations in healthcare, it’s easier and cheaper to cause burnout in their employees and replace people as close to bottom dollar as they can afford than it is to appropriately and safely staff to prevent burnout. Even the mistakes due to burnout are forcibly arbitrated to be a general low cost if any; most major mistakes can be diverted to the Nurse/NP/MD/DO/PA who made the grievous mistake and institutional liability is low. TBH, capitalism is a really shitty system if you don’t start out near the top to begin with. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
I get that these things happen. I just think as a society we shouldn't sit back and let people get away with merely doing what's legally required but instead hold them to a higher standard than that. That's why I always wanted eSports to be more than merely copying sports and why I push so much against all these franchised leagues. It's a very fine line between people protecting themselves from potential and blaming them for not protecting. I for instance life in a country where any local knows not to be in certain areas at night or go through other areas only by car. Hell sometimes don't stop at robots in areas. So when something bad happens to a person it's easy to just think "they should have known better", and sure they should have done more to be safe but that doesn't mean what happened to them is excusable. Idk I'm kind of rambling here. Need figure out a better way to describe my position. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 26 2018 17:14 geript wrote: I really don’t see what the big problem is. While esports and especially LoL is a small world, it’s becoming much closer to sports in organization. In normal sports, players are a resource with relative clear values. If players aren’t worth their cost, they get cut. Altec doesn’t carry value as a player, he’s entirely replaceable. He doesn’t carry value in regards to bringing fans and profit through merchandise or streaming akin to DL, Bjergsen, etc. There’s little reason to keep him. It’s a business decision. Treating players like this is a bad idea because it erode your fanbase. There are plenty of people that washed their hands of 100T for the whole Meteos thing - regardless of the finer details. But worse, other players see you treating your own roster poorly and you'll get less consideration from the blue chip players like Bjergsen and DL when it comes to free agency. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On July 26 2018 20:03 Numy wrote: That sounds awful, hope your work isn't as bad as that ;(. That's why I mentioned it maybe being a culture clash. I get that these things happen. I just think as a society we shouldn't sit back and let people get away with merely doing what's legally required but instead hold them to a higher standard than that. That's why I always wanted eSports to be more than merely copying sports and why I push so much against all these franchised leagues. It's a very fine line between people protecting themselves from potential and blaming them for not protecting. I for instance life in a country where any local knows not to be in certain areas at night or go through other areas only by car. Hell sometimes don't stop at robots in areas. So when something bad happens to a person it's easy to just think "they should have known better", and sure they should have done more to be safe but that doesn't mean what happened to them is excusable. Idk I'm kind of rambling here. Need figure out a better way to describe my position. Yup, if we treat things with apathy and just say "this is how it is", then that's how it will ever be. I used to be the kind of person who thought, "stupid player shoulda known better" in situations like this. Then my opinion changed and realised that we should work towards human decency even if inherently, humans are greedy and self-serving. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 27 2018 05:21 JimmiC wrote: When some one gets cut, do they still get paid? In a lot of sports they still do, or a % I guess that would depend on how the contract is worded. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 27 2018 07:33 JimmiC wrote: In regular sports in NA all except football are fully guaranteed. Would be interested to know how LOL is. I guess with out collective bargaining it depends on the individual player. That's because the player unions have a CBA making it that way. LCS player's association barely exists and it's not even an official union. If the end result of getting cut isn't anything other than, effectively, going "you're fired." I'll be shocked. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 27 2018 08:00 cLutZ wrote: All lol contracts are mandated by Riot to have uniform expiration dates arent they? So they are certainly not at-will contracts. After that it all has to do with contract language. Contrary to popular belief, not all NBA/MLB contracts are guaranteed and not all NFL contracts are "cuttable". Those are merely norms that have evolved with the culture of the sports. I don't think so. I know the vast majority of the contracts I've seen end dates for happen in 15-20th of November(S7 Worlds ended on the 4th) after the season is over - because that makes sense for both the players and teams, but nothing limits the amount of years a player signs for and a few are in May, June, or September. | ||
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geript
10024 Posts
On July 26 2018 20:03 Numy wrote: That sounds awful, hope your work isn't as bad as that ;(. That's why I mentioned it maybe being a culture clash. I get that these things happen. I just think as a society we shouldn't sit back and let people get away with merely doing what's legally required but instead hold them to a higher standard than that. That's why I always wanted eSports to be more than merely copying sports and why I push so much against all these franchised leagues. It's a very fine line between people protecting themselves from potential and blaming them for not protecting. I for instance life in a country where any local knows not to be in certain areas at night or go through other areas only by car. Hell sometimes don't stop at robots in areas. So when something bad happens to a person it's easy to just think "they should have known better", and sure they should have done more to be safe but that doesn't mean what happened to them is excusable. Idk I'm kind of rambling here. Need figure out a better way to describe my position. My old work was. I literally got fired for refusing to work an extra shift on a cart that I told my direct supervisor (a unit manager), the scheduling manager, and the unit manager on that floor that I would work any assignment that day except for one. I warned them for 4 straight days in a row in both written and verbal communication. I told them that I would not agree to come in to work that one and that if they put me on it I would leave. I made sure every other assignment was covered, notified them and left. They fired me and tried to have my license revoked for abandoment. They lost that hardcore. I reported them to the better business bureau, DHEC (for rampant understaffing outside of minimal regulations), Medicare and Medicaid. That company is currently again under investigation for fraudulent claims which will likely cost them a couple hundred thousand. The DON is also currently under investigation by the state board of nursing for neglect in regards to continued allowance to ignore written warnings in regards to patient safety (specifically related to nurses diverting narcotics for personal use while at work). Apparently they never believed me that when I said I keep everything. That said, the BON won’t likely act for a few years at minimum because they’re slow as fuck. Where I work now is great. But that’s because the managers treat staff like a valuable resource and do what they can to retain good staff (usually). They could do far better, but on average they’re better than most (sadly). | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On July 27 2018 07:52 Gahlo wrote: That's because the player unions have a CBA making it that way. LCS player's association barely exists and it's not even an official union. If the end result of getting cut isn't anything other than, effectively, going "you're fired." I'll be shocked. On the Dive they mentioned they weren't sure what kind of contract but that they wouldn't be surprised if the players got nothing. @Geript - Dam man that sounds like an awful experience. Glad you doing better now. It's really sad when people just refuse to treat each other decently. It takes so little effort and often has more efficient rewards down the line too. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
My bet is that if Faker doesn't get picked up by a top tier KR team, which is likely since they all have good mid laners, he will go to CN for a bit. NA has a load of money atm, but you can bet at least one of the rich owners in CN will make an offer to Faker that will overshadow anything else, even a TL one. But who knows, maybe Steve will prove me wrong and pull 10 million out of now where. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I would also like to see Riot pay Dopa to play Na to rank 1, unfortunately I doubt I’ll get that either. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On July 27 2018 05:21 JimmiC wrote: When some one gets cut, do they still get paid? In a lot of sports they still do, or a % This was answered on beyondtherift by Altec. His contract was voided so he doesn't get paid. | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
Also on the latter I did hear Kobe’s reasoning on the Dive why that’s a two way street. I just don’t find that argument compelling in the least, the ONLY time it would apply even would be precisely situations like this where the players would b SOL. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 30 2018 03:15 Sent. wrote: Don't NA players make enough to hire a lawyer to at least check if the voided contracts were abusive which would mean there is something to fight for in court? Or is it only top names that earn crazy money and the rest earns just enough to convince themselves quitting school was the right choice? There are player agents. This is America we're talking about, where unless you make it stated in your contract if A=>B, then in the vast majority of cases if you get fired, that's it. These types of things weren't addressed in contracts because there wasn't much of a need to or know to before. You have a bunch of kids who largely played videogames as their primary or sole hobby - not people who follow sports closely and would pick up on some things from watching free agency. You didn't have big business in the space since most of the orgs were either run by people from the esports scene or people that play the game and wanted to get in the scene as an owner - so there was more empathy for players. Ownership, or at least EF's ownership has made a statement through action that they aren't going to do players any favor if they don't want them anymore. It's up to the players to defend themselves in the future or run that risk happening to them. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 30 2018 04:12 JimmiC wrote: I get you have a hate on for EF but lets not pretend other teams have not done similar or the same stuff. If it is in the rules they will do it. True, and I freely admit that bias, but let's also not pretend we were having this discussion before EF did this. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On July 30 2018 05:20 JimmiC wrote: Man the meteo's trade was a huge discussion just maybe not here. But I'm not sure everyone seems to want esports to be more like sports then when they are people get all mad. And this shit is super common in sports. I mean Cowboys waited as late as they could to cut Dez, which really hurt his chances of landing in another spot. And that is just one examples of thousands. Dez can still sign to a team. He's had the ability to for months. The state of sports contracts is a result of a capitalist culture. Expecting anything different from corporate interest in esports is foolish. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Very funny article. Piglet still a G. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Riot finally announced dates for Worlds. Sad that it didn't line up with my uni break ;( | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
Trying out this format for tracking Worlds qualifications if anyone's interested/has any feedback | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
Also the question remains who of Soaz and Bwipo will play. So far it seems like Bwipo though, he will play vs Giants. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On August 10 2018 15:50 Redox wrote: He still sounds super insecure. Idk where this comes from, but I dont think it is good for a professional competitor. Also the question remains who of Soaz and Bwipo will play. So far it seems like Bwipo though, he will play vs Giants. I've always felt Rekkles has been a bit of a dodgy professional in the past. He stubbornly goes his own weird non-optimal builds and refuses to learn new meta champs instead forcing his champ pool. We've seen it work sometimes but also cost Fnatic a lot at times. If this meta has forced him to lose some of that overconfidence and put in the work to learn new things I think he'll be a far better player in the long run. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On August 10 2018 19:47 Numy wrote: I've always felt Rekkles has been a bit of a dodgy professional in the past. He stubbornly goes his own weird non-optimal builds and refuses to learn new meta champs instead forcing his champ pool. We've seen it work sometimes but also cost Fnatic a lot at times. If this meta has forced him to lose some of that overconfidence and put in the work to learn new things I think he'll be a far better player in the long run. I have no idea where you get that overconfidence thing from. I dont think I have ever seen a less confident pro player. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
Smell that? Somebody just added a dump to the Echo Fox shit pile. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On August 11 2018 09:28 Slusher wrote: ITT: man who said Ech Fox should not have gotten a franchise slot because they don’t try to win dumps on Echo Fox for trying to win How is waiting until 5 hours before roster lock to cut a player you don't want "trying to win" when he hadn't been playing on the starting roster for at least a week beforehand? If you want to be critical of my admitted bias against Echo Fox, you can do it without being excessively reductive. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 11 2018 10:54 Gahlo wrote: Too used to US Pol where people have to at least make an attempt to engage the other person with a point other than zingers. Lol, you mean the biggest cesspool on the site? | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On August 11 2018 13:35 Slusher wrote: Maybe it's jacks fault holding out to see if he could get more till the last second, I mean C9 didn't get a ton out of this deal Different deal. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
Splyce and H2K out of EULCS. Kind of surprised Splyce got the boot tbh | ||
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
I do assume one spot is going to go to a Spanish Football Club backed OG, despite their embarrassing regulation | ||
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On September 30 2018 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote: H2K was backed by a big football club and still got rejected. I know that H2K was a flaming dumpster this year but TL was too the year before they got accepted. Who IS coming if PSG isn't big enough to save H2K. I do assume one spot is going to go to a Spanish Football Club backed OG, despite their embarrassing regulation H2K fucked themselves hard being bitching and moaning for a long time, I think. People that thought pro sports team backing meant auto in didn't learn about the tragedy of Darth Dignitas the Sixer. TL, despite being pretty bad for that year, were one of the top followed teams in the league and had a long track record of relevance. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On September 30 2018 06:52 chipmonklord17 wrote: http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/24831632/2018-european-league-championship-series-splyce-h2k-psg-rejected-eu-lcs Splyce and H2K out of EULCS. Kind of surprised Splyce got the boot tbh I'm sad Splyce won't be around next year | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
On September 30 2018 13:53 starkiller123 wrote: I'm sad Splyce won't be around next year Agreed. I think down the line Splyce will be the Immortals of EU franchising - the team that didn't that should have. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
G2, Fnatic, Misfits, S04, VIT in H2K and Splyce out No word on UoL, Giants, or Roccat | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
Granted, not European, so I may be missing context about why this perplexes you. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
On October 03 2018 13:01 Redox wrote: Most surprised about S04. Not that they were let in, but that they applied at all. I would not have expected the club to make a non-football investment that big. Wonder if there will be backlash once the mainstream hears about that. They've been showing highlights of the team's games at their stadium before games so clearly they seem into it. There will always be backlash from idiots, though. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
http://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/24892443/giants-unicorns-roccat-not-participate-eu-lcs-franchising Not surprised and don't care about Giants. UoL basically lost their entire brand when Romain went to NA. Roccat's a bit sad to see go, considering they're an endemic sponsor - though they could just piggyback on another team. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
Astralis first new team to be accepted. Four more new teams will join G2/Fnatic/Misfits/S04/VIT | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
Apparently xPeke's mom is making fun of who said it. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
So, let's start a discussion here. In Australia, the National Rugby League organisers (biggest or second biggest sporting league in Aus depending on who you ask) set a salary cap for both players and support staff (with some exceptions related to third-party deals and sponsorships). Currently, the player's salary cap is 9.4 million AUD for a squad of 30 with a minimum wage of 100K and the support staff cap is at 5.7 million. The NRL provides 11 million AUD in funding every year, essentially covering the playing salary cap and a bit of the support staff cap. What does everyone think of this style of cap being implemented in the LCS? Currently, the LCS minimum wage is 75K USD, which IMO is too high. AFAIK, almost none of the players in the LCS right now are on under 100K unless they started the year off in Academy. Riot covers an amount of that 75k, not sure how much. It used to be 30k (which when introduced, a lot of teams ONLY paid that salary) but I think it's much more now (MAYBE 50k?). | ||
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Sent.
Poland9300 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
The problems facing LCS stem from 2 main areas. 1) VCs inflating cost of business while revenue streams do not match expenses 2) Riot's mismanagement in generating revenue from LCS Now salary caps can help with point 1 to an extent, they won't really stop the overall costs where players and coaches are being paid far too much money for what they generate. The lowing of min wage is interesting. Would teams lower salaries? Would there be outrage from players? Forcing teams to be sustainable is pretty interesting idea, they clearly would rather whine than do it themselves. The second problem is pretty tough too. Franchising itself wasn't actually needed to revenue share yet here we are. Riot hasn't shown themselves to be particularly competent in managing their esports side. Makes you wonder why these big investors were willing to pay so much money. They should work harder at generating revenue here but I do wonder if that will even matter. If the teams themselves would just keep raising costs with the increased income instead of trying to stabilize it won't do much. I know I said this years ago but I do believe the current situation is a combination of terrible investors in league and Riot poor management. Putting all the onus on merely one side isn't going to produce healthy results. | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
I don't think a minimum wage will solve the issue that its just not in teams best interests to collaborate for sponsors | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
Lets all pretend to be surprised together Part II:Hire Zikz boogaloo | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
edit: He addressed it on reddit. https://old.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/9q55vp/welcome_tsm_zikz/e86oy40/ | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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LightningStrike
United States14277 Posts
Alex Ich officially retired from pro League of Legends. I wasn't to shocked seeing he hasn't done much this year. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Riot finally announcing Worlds ahead of time as well as announcing Worlds final location for next year ^_^ | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
At least when it's in EU I can just stay up a bit instead of going to sleep early to get up early. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
CLG should have just died honourably by getting rejected for franchising, fuck. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On November 02 2018 01:43 Numy wrote: I don't trust people wearing caps for fashion instead of function. What if I'm balding and don't like it? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
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loSleb
Austria1389 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On November 02 2018 06:56 Bladeorade wrote: What if I'm balding and don't like it? What kind of caps do you wear? Could the fashion cap actually function as a cap if required? Find caps like mr. weldon wear are useless caps that suck. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
On November 02 2018 08:37 Numy wrote: What kind of caps do you wear? Could the fashion cap actually function as a cap if required? Find caps like mr. weldon wear are useless caps that suck. I wear Boston based sports hats, some flat brim some baseball style | ||
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
EDIT: I know PapaSmithy was talking about how there's a lot of spicy contracts ending in Korea this month so I decided to have a look myself. Almost everyone's contracts end this year, minus Griffin and a few members of other teams | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
And yeah, Korea is really weird with being slow on picking up the multi year deals. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
Offseason roster shuffle discussion thread. Updating with the regions throughout the day. | ||
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AdsMoFro
Japan4761 Posts
KESPA Cup running from the 18th December to the 25th. Gonna be exciting to see all these rosters in actions! | ||
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