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On September 07 2017 16:56 DarkCore wrote:
I still believe you can make it Diamond without any real skills, with any champion.
[...]
But in 95% of the cases, that doesn't matter to 98% of the player base, because the more important thing is their own skill.
That doesn't seem quite clear.
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if u really want diamond right now just abuse one of the censer 55% winrate supports play 500 games and u will get there
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Ew, no, I'd rather play Blitzcrank/Malphite/Amumu
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that doesnt actually work though, only generally pushes you on the curve a little more then usual. If somebody mains an OP champ and they are still at a shitty rank, they are usually much worse then the average player at macro parts of the game. So many jannas and sejuanis/other tank junglers right now that are just horrible players. Had a maokai yesterday that invaded red side from top when his laners are vayne and kassadin, lol. We surrendered at 15 mins
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Holy shit this Invasion game mode is garbage, I can't believe they spent time and money on this.
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On September 07 2017 16:56 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2017 23:42 GrandInquisitor wrote:On September 05 2017 14:00 cLutZ wrote:On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:On September 05 2017 12:26 cLutZ wrote:
I think the problem I see with it is mostly 2 things.
1. Reliability vs. RNGA fundamental "promise" or at least difference between LOL and a game like Hearthstone is there were really reliable IP (if not great) gains that would let you power up to competitive levels and let you fill out your roster without either spending a buttload of cash, or grinding for 6 hours a day (like WOW, but in a much more stressful game environment than 95% of WOW). This repeals a bit of that promise. It makes LOL more like a GASHA game, which sucks, because GASHA games usually end up sucking for F2P or lite-P2P players long term because you can't avoid unlucky streaks. A selling point of LOL was that it wasn't Vegas, it was Disney World on a good day where you could still get on rides even without the Fastpass. I totally agree. And you really think LoL is like Hearthstone? You can't play Hearthstone competitively without spending money. No amount of skill is gonna let you rank up with your basic F2P deck. Same is not true for League - except for runes, which hey, they got rid of! No. You took it way too far. I contrasted LOL with Hearthstone (which I haven't even played past the initial missions and a few PVP games, so I am no master of, but its the most famous GASHA game IMO). I said this potentially makes it more like Hearthstone, which I just don't like that design direction. Except that this exactly the design direction you claim to want, because it removes runes, which is a way larger barrier to a level playing field than owning the right champions. On September 05 2017 13:26 GrandInquisitor wrote:2. Lowering FTP Progression Look, IP gains are too low right now and have been for years. 2 games/day 5 days a week has not been enough to keep up even with the much slower release schedule (and I like the slower release schedule). They reduced IP once before and people were mad. People are going to be, and frankly should be, mad if there is any chance of getting less blue essence than we get IP now. I mean no FWOTD basically wipes out 1/2 my IP gains for most days.
For people who already own most/all champs, this is a prime example of who cares? For people who don't, it sounds like they actually benefit under the new system. The combination of champ shards + not needing to spend on runes means they acquire their champions considerably faster. And, besides, this is the point of my post - this is Vegas. Riot earns a lot from people spending RP to buy champions. At its core your post is assuming that you "need" to own 136 champions. No one needs 136 champions. This isn't Dota, where not owning X puts you at a huge disadvantage competitively. People climb to Challenger playing shit like AD Ahri. So if there's no competitive disadvantage, then I honestly don't really give a fuck about people complaining they don't own all the champions, because there's no reason they should. Imagine if in Hearthstone you could hit rank 1 with your starting free pack, and yet people complained it took too long to collect all the other cards from free packs. That's why they ain't free, cause you don't need them. Nah, I don't assume that at all. I have like 40k IP and dozens of unlocked champions. Part of this is role selection, part of it is just finding champs boring. I do think that not having all 136 does put you at a competitive disadvantage simply because character swapping is so powerful outside of blindpick (but its probably more like 100 that you need then). Also the "AD Ahri" thing is stupid thing to bring up. The relevant standard is whether 2 players, given the same talent, dedication, and practice are on the same level, or at least close enough. I don't care if those guys are bronze 5 or Challenger, my preferred design is that they are the same. Part of this is me not wanting to pull the ladder up behind me, and part of it is that if I roleswapped my 40k excess IP would be gone in a second (if the meta hated me). Lets say I start wanting to be a toplaner because I love Cho and Jax, and actually fairly good and they are good so I win lots. Then my boys get nerfed, and the meta is Ornn/Aatrox/Gnar/Kled. I'm fine, I can buy these new OP guys, but some other guy can't, probably. If I buy them, then decide I want to switch to mid, and mid is infested with A-Sol, Lucian, and Lissandra, + new champ, I'm out of IP, and that is hilarious but still stupid given how active I am, and how long I have been (which goes back to my initial point of them being slow). So its both risk management and altruism combined for me here. A person who claims they can't climb because their champions aren't in meta is the saddest of excuses. If you are Silver 3 you aren't going to hit Gold just because you switched mains to the "meta". More generally skill expression in League is tied very little, if at all, to champion selection. This is different from Hearthstone, where ~70% of your skill is determined by stuff you pay for, and there are literal unwinnable matchups unless you buy certain cards. Nothing like that is true in League. The only people for whom your argument is true are the absolute beginners - the sub 30's that need a jungler other than Warwick and Nunu. And this system is way better for them. The only people that suffer are people who play a ton, and if they're complaining, it's not because of competitive disadvantage, it's that they can't stand to be earning fewer imaginary internet points now. I still believe you can make it Diamond without any real skills, with any champion. I started climbing in S3 by writing a list of 16 champions I would play, 3-4 for each role. For the roles I sucked at, I wrote noob champs like Singed and Mundo. You can still play these champions and win games, in fact Singed was arguably reworked to be stronger. The only time you're going to be at a massive disadvantage in low elos is when you meet someone who knows their champion better and maybe counters you, which is basically the exact opposite of what his whole argument was. Not everything is viable in League, it's why we have a meta. But in 95% of the cases, that doesn't matter to 98% of the player base, because the more important thing is their own skill.
Can confirm. The only thing I'm good at is watching the minimap and spam danger and missing pings.
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On September 08 2017 03:32 Ansibled wrote:
Holy shit this Invasion game mode is garbage, I can't believe they spent time and money on this.
Don't forget that you have to find 4 other people willing to play this bullshit, are good enough to win it, AND win it at least 7 times if my count is correct (once with each team minimum, 3 separate occasions with the NO X teams, and if you're lucky only one more time because you got to play two separate classes in the 'once with each team' game) PLUS another assuming that the 'getting the S' and 'getting the A' missions unlock at the same time AND getting an S satisfies getting the A mission. If not its a whopping 8 fucking times with this shit mode, assuming 100% winrate
EDIT: Also for my own clarification when it says you can trade the tokens for a champ permanent that is a guaranteed new champ right? Like it can't give you a permanent for a champ you already own, or is that exclusive to when you reroll the champ shards?
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Maybe the target audience are those mysterious people who spend entire days playing co-op vs AI while roleplaying in the chat?
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I thought you guys were exaggerating but once was enough holy shit
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I actually found the single time I tried pretty fun, but not fun enough to play more than a single game of it. The missions are fucking retarded.
EDIT: Just learned Maokai can enter walls if he W Kayn. Rito I love your coding. Now I just wonder what happens if Kayn ults someone while Maokai is W traveling and Tahm Kench ults the victim away.
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it's pretty obvious who it was targeted at, e-girls and their friends. Literally girls I havent seen on in months all magically reappeared today for this shit
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I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play.
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Maybe I am even more of a cretin than you all, but I dont even understand the point. It seems like there are various modes, which end up being like a retarded version of the Burning Crusade version of Mount Hyjal (raid). By the way, no one liked Mt. Hyjal, except for the fact that it was undertuned until you got to Archimonde.
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That doesn't seem quite clear.
By real skills I mean being able to play the game properly, which granted is pretty subjective. Things like seeing the enemy jungler top lane and mid and bot are pushed in, so as jungle Elise taking dragon might be a good idea. Or even as simple as asking bot lane to place a ward in the bot lane brush so you can TP behind enemy. Or watching the minimap... Very obvious in retrospect, but I don't think I've seen a bot lane TP engage in a month.
I thought my point made sense. You can play any champion to Diamond, the meta is only moderately relevant for everything below there, all that matters is you as a player.
Now I'm going to try out the game mode for myself, because people are bashing it here...
Kill me, this game is terrible.
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On September 08 2017 10:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play.
That's a bit unfair. War3 custom maps were better done than majority of games.
Anyway yea I agree with you though, the best bit about Hero defense maps were how crazy insane they were. Got awesome weird OP abilities with crazy items and spawns.
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I agree it's not very fun to play beyond the first game. It's really frustrating for me and my friends to play the glorified skin showcase upwards of 10 times to get everyone on the same missions and actually win
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On PBE
"Living Forge (P) masterwork upgrades now become available once Ornn reaches level 13."
Hahahhahahahahahhaha. Love they have to directly prevent stupid people from rushing the upgraded items.
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On September 08 2017 10:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play.
Dont forget that 3/5 of you start with a death just to show off the revive mechanic.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 09 2017 20:17 lilwisper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2017 10:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play. Dont forget that 3/5 of you start with a death just to show off the revive mechanic.
Only if you play the bitch mode. I don't think it happens in Onslaught.
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On September 10 2017 11:39 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2017 20:17 lilwisper wrote:On September 08 2017 10:58 PrinceXizor wrote:
I was super excited for the game mode. until i saw it played.
It's the laziest hero defense i've ever seen. So much polish into making it look flashy, but absolutely no gameplay polish. It's absolutely just an advertisement for the skins with no real thought put into it.
Hero Defenses are cool because of how ridiculously everything scales upwards. They should feel like playing through the entire run of DBZ. you start off doing cool stuff, and end up doing stuff on a different power scale.
I was expecting the champs to gain a level every wave an abilities to scale to like 10-20 ranks. with crazy modifiers as they get up there. Rank 4 Lux ult that reflects off walls, poppy ult that insta kills past a certain rank, jinx fishbones getting free runaans bolts at higher ranks. etc. instead we got standard gameplay, with refreshed sums, so the game maintained the slow pace of league but without the interaction with a human opponent.
you could find amateur custom maps in war3 that just took the heroes from the standard mode and added 6 more ranks to the skills that felt more interesting to play. Dont forget that 3/5 of you start with a death just to show off the revive mechanic. Only if you play the bitch mode. I don't think it happens in Onslaught.
They wouldn't be able to get away with it. Everyone would lose too quickly
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EPT
