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Ugh. Its just so greedy.
If you buy an extra DBlade instead your jungler can at least make a play bottom if you on 2x Dblade + Longsword and they on DBlade + BF. If the 2nd DBlade is a Cull instead its not really worth the junglers time to come because you can't even engage your not only are you getting smashed, but now your Jungler is too because there was like 1000 gold handed out the other way when all 3 of you inevitably die.
Being down like 500 gold is bad enough as it is, when it turns into an effective 800 you're just dead. The risk / reward of someone coming to help you is awful: Worst case that loses the game, best case you are still 500 gold behind after the play works. Suddenly the only way helping you makes sense is if multiple people show up while the other team is diving top. Gross.
ADC's... Please stop it.
Honestly... Best case scenario you are up 180 gold in your build path than if you just didn't buy it at all. 180 gold! I get it if it is a farm lane, or you are in a winning lane, you get the 7 AD for free mid game. But when you are behind...
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no you don't understand they missed 3 cs the lane is over might as well farm
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I mean... you could also buy a DBlade and the scenario where the actual 500 gold difference and your effective gold difference is only 200, and that is gankable as hell. That is even a gank where if you play the 3v3 well you can get counter ganked and not lose the game. You can even possibly win the 3v3.
But I mean, if you're 3cs behind I guess...
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dblade doesn't make a profit mate
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I don't think the difference is as big as you are suggesting for a jungler. The AD of the two items is basically identical. The only difference is your health pool, which probably doesn't matter as much if you're the ones trying to initiate on them.
I'll grant you that 2x Doran's Blade > Cull + Doran's Blade, but you make it sound like ganking for a Doran's Blade / Cull lane is absolutely impossible but ganking for a 2x Doran's Blade lane is ezpz.
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yea sounds a bit oversalty it's not that big a deal and you won't influence the playerbase as a whole bitching on TL
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It is a bit exaggerated but it is pretty close to that break point where you just can't help. The Dblade is legit 400 gold more combat stats than cull. That is 20 cs worth of combat stats. If they already behind enough to feel like they need a cull that means they effectively 30 to 40 cs behind.
It is quite close to where you just can't help. It's also much more dangerous than ganking a mid or top that far behind because you are guaranteed to have less vision because the other lane gets 2 incontested pinks instead of one. You also have to worry about more summoners as well as the response of their top / mid / jungle more because there is no way to get to the lane without walking through wards because bot lane just has that much warding power.
It's a huge risk ganking a barely behind bot lane. It's real scary ganking a very behind bot lane.
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It's also 400 gold further away from having a real item.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I mean, you can keep saying "400 gold more combat stats than cull" but that doesn't make it true. Cull has one less AD (35 gold) and 80 less health (213 gold).
Even ignoring the fact that Cull's life-on-hit is worth more than Doran's Blade's lifesteal early in the game, all you're really saying is that a gank where your ADC lives with 80 HP wouldn't work if he had bought Cull instead.
Put another way, you saying that you "just can't gank" for a level 6 Caitlyn with Doran's Blade + Cull is like saying "sorry I can't gank because you're only 840/920 HP and you're missing one AD mark".
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is autofill anywhere else but NA? why only there?
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On June 07 2016 00:53 iCanada wrote:
Why the hell do ADC's who are getting wrecked buy Cull? What is the thought process? "hey I am losing lane better spend some of my gold on combat inefficient items"?
I just straight up don't understand. Do all ADC players just think they are the best player in the world and they will just outplay the other guy currently beating them when they buy poor combat items and the other guy has more gold spent on actual combat items? Like a solo lane getting wrecked buys extra Doran items (Hell, Faker bought 3 doran rings on Anivia just a few hours ago in LCK) to stop the bleeding. A jungler getting wrecked in 2v2s buys green smite and makes sure he just doesn't fight any situation where it isn't advantageous. ADC players just like drop their trousers and bend over the barrel themselves.
I've seen pro players, high MMR players, bad players, and everything in between do this. I don't understand at all. I see it all the time (almost every other game in fact, whether it is LCS, my own Soloqueue, or streams), and I have literally never seen it do anything but get them killed more. Can anyone actually explain this at all?
On a different note, Diamondprox (sub for APEX right now) has been rushing GA as a second item after Bloodrazer on Kindred in his last 10 games or so this patch. Kind of makes sense, makes you tanky as hell when you think about it; your W will heal you probably 3 times in any all in skirmish or fight, then you get the heal from R. Level 6 thats a solid (54*3+200)=362. If they have a comp with a good damage split, I don't think there is a single item in the game for kindred that makes you tankier than just GA. Maybe Zz'Rot? I'm curious to try it out some, when Kindred escapes the ban phase that is. <_<
Speaking of Zz'Rot, how good is the movespeed passive from the raptor cloak? 1200 gold for 45 armor and tower dive speed actually sounds pretty attractive.
link diamonds op.gg?
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On June 07 2016 06:57 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:53 iCanada wrote:
Why the hell do ADC's who are getting wrecked buy Cull? What is the thought process? "hey I am losing lane better spend some of my gold on combat inefficient items"?
I just straight up don't understand. Do all ADC players just think they are the best player in the world and they will just outplay the other guy currently beating them when they buy poor combat items and the other guy has more gold spent on actual combat items? Like a solo lane getting wrecked buys extra Doran items (Hell, Faker bought 3 doran rings on Anivia just a few hours ago in LCK) to stop the bleeding. A jungler getting wrecked in 2v2s buys green smite and makes sure he just doesn't fight any situation where it isn't advantageous. ADC players just like drop their trousers and bend over the barrel themselves.
I've seen pro players, high MMR players, bad players, and everything in between do this. I don't understand at all. I see it all the time (almost every other game in fact, whether it is LCS, my own Soloqueue, or streams), and I have literally never seen it do anything but get them killed more. Can anyone actually explain this at all?
On a different note, Diamondprox (sub for APEX right now) has been rushing GA as a second item after Bloodrazer on Kindred in his last few games this patch. Kind of makes sense, makes you tanky as hell when you think about it; your W will heal you probably 3 times in any all in skirmish or fight, then you get the heal from R. Level 6 thats a solid (54*3+200)=362. If they have a comp with a good damage split, I don't think there is a single item in the game for kindred that makes you tankier than just GA. Maybe Zz'Rot? I'm curious to try it out some, when Kindred escapes the ban phase that is. <_<
Speaking of Zz'Rot, how good is the movespeed passive from the raptor cloak? 1200 gold for 45 armor and tower dive speed actually sounds pretty attractive. link diamonds op.gg?
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=GMB Diamondprox
Played 6 games on Kindred today, tried it out. I think the GA rush makes quite a lot of sense if you have a squishy (like Assassin / duelist top, Ranged support, traditional midlaner) team, but if you have a bruiser-y (Swain, Vlad, Maokai, Alistar etc) team I think you just build damage.
That seems to be the way Diamond does is as well.
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he did it in one game that's not enough to all a pattern. i imagine it would be a if super ahead then you buy the insurance kind of a deal. In the one game he did buy it he was way ahead.
If you look at his kr id you don't see any of that
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He was equal with Contractz' Lee Sin till the 25 minute mark, and he bought the thing at the 14 minute mark... He also isn't even ahead of any of the solo laners or ADC's in gold till around the same time frame. Look
I just thought it was note worthy, 3 item kindred with GA+PD is pretty much a straight up bruiser. Relatively comparable eHP with a Reksai building either Warrior+2x Tank or Cinderhydra. Cinderhydra prolly is a bit tankier, but I think GA rush Kindred does way more damage than Cinderhydra Reksai.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I like it because it has massive synergy with Kindred's ult. One of the greatest dangers of Kindred is that you're always just one cc-chain away from being locked out of your R - GA prevents that and basically guarantees you'll get off your ult, either before or after your GA pops.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4mvto1/a_trick_i_just_found_to_detect_death_brushes/
Huh.
Leave it to BoxBox to discover random mechanics to abuse. That is actually huge. You can face check brushes in baron and be confident from like 1200 range away they not baiting in that brush. If LoL is still around in like 5 years, that will be BoxBox' legacy man.
On June 07 2016 13:34 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I like it because it has massive synergy with Kindred's ult. One of the greatest dangers of Kindred is that you're always just one cc-chain away from being locked out of your R - GA prevents that and basically guarantees you'll get off your ult, either before or after your GA pops.
Yeah. I also think you give yourself more time to be useful in fights without having to snowball as much. I have to say, not sure if i like the changes in this patch cycle to Kindred. I'd have preferred if they moved some of her damage off the marks, not too them s much. Would make her a more consistent champion, which would be nice because she is kind of feast or famine right now.
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Canada10567 Posts
On June 07 2016 14:20 iCanada wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4mvto1/a_trick_i_just_found_to_detect_death_brushes/Huh. Leave it to BoxBox to discover random mechanics to abuse. That is actually huge. You can face check brushes in baron and be confident from like 1200 range away they not baiting in that brush. If LoL is still around in like 5 years, that will be BoxBox' legacy man. Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 13:34 GrandInquisitor wrote:
I like it because it has massive synergy with Kindred's ult. One of the greatest dangers of Kindred is that you're always just one cc-chain away from being locked out of your R - GA prevents that and basically guarantees you'll get off your ult, either before or after your GA pops. Yeah. I also think you give yourself more time to be useful in fights without having to snowball as much. I have to say, not sure if i like the changes in this patch cycle to Kindred. I'd have preferred if they moved some of her damage off the marks, not too them s much. Would make her a more consistent champion, which would be nice because she is kind of feast or famine right now.
It's going to be very hard to abuse tbh. It looks like pathing doesn't chaange until you're within ~400-500 range of the bush, which is more or less the same as a ward. You're dead to a deathbush if you get that close as a non-tank.
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You can tell from the minimap that your pathing line isn't straight but curved slighty. You can see from a much higher range on the minimap. Depending on their champ spread from what I can tell you get minimum 700 range, if they have like Voli/Cho/Hec kind of champs its much much longer range (more like 1200) you can see on minimap.
I think it is a neat interaction. A tool to add to the toolbox anyway.
I don't think it makes facechecking any brush risk free in a hectic game, but like late game when your support gets caught warding baron you can at least make a more informed decision about if they on it or death brushing you. It also means nothing in soloqueue. You can ping the enemy jungler walking through 3 wards when you making a play other side of the map, people still die to the ganks sometimes. If you retreat pinged the brush even 1000 range away, you know Ashe baby is facechecking that shit anyway. Sad day.
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Well, looks like I'm in the client update alpha.
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EPT
