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[Patch 6.11] Meeeeee-ow! General Discussion - Page 6

Forum Index > LoL General
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kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
June 03 2016 06:29 GMT
#101
On June 03 2016 07:34 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2016 07:17 Slayer91 wrote:
the beauty of statistics is that on average it does matter

a pseudo random system like this makes more sense than a pure random one

the 100 mmr on average makes a difference, how much doesn't matter because once you decide you want to give pick priority to higher ranked players you should do so
i don't see why you want an arbitrary cut off point for when you should get first pick

we aren't stealing peoples first picks here, on average you'll still get the same amount of times first pick/last pick etc its just that in your games the higher ranked people get their roles more often

it was a good system I think. Not sure on their reasoning for removing it. Probably the toxicity of "last pick sucks".

like you're basically saying you shouldn't say a certain hand in poker is stronger than another because on a given day the "weaker hand" could win 9 times out of 10
yes it can but on average the stronger hand wins and on average the 100 mmr player is quite a bit better



you know what statistically evens out over time and has less exploitability and edge cases?
random pick order. thus we have that instead now

assuming random people every game it doesnt makes any difference and if u were duoing with person with significantly lower elo imo they should have lower pick order
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
June 03 2016 07:24 GMT
#102
Anyone else's ingame interface bugged all to hell?

Pings don't work at all. My enter key does literally nothing. I can't even get the chat box window to open. Same with Z to check the chat. Its just totally busted.

How am I supposed to communicate with no pings and no chat? Does this mean I am chat restricted? I only type timers and shit like "bait baron" in chat.
dsyxelic
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1417 Posts
June 03 2016 08:25 GMT
#103
idk theres been a bunch of issues in general all over

i encountered the fiora bug a few days ago which doesn't let her TP until she hits a minion or some shit

and just today I had a bug with ziggs where I couldn't TP from base for like 5 seconds until I reached my nexus turret or w.e

not to mention tons of client bugs as well
TL/SKT
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
June 03 2016 08:43 GMT
#104
Buying hextech champ shards is out.

If you own all but the 6300 champs, it's cheaper to buy the shards and get a random champ vs. buying champs outright.

I got 2 shards that I want to keep though, so it'll still be a while before I unlock any champs with it.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
June 03 2016 09:43 GMT
#105
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4mbkgu/lcs_teams_quitting_dynamic_q_for_inhouse_solo_q/


thats sad ...
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-03 14:33:19
June 03 2016 14:16 GMT
#106
This is kind of nice though for entirely the opposite reasons that Reddit thinks. Everyone has always criticized the NA ranked ladder for being too full of streamers instead of people tryharding. Maybe the streaming ban will create a subgroup of players that takes ranked more seriously and improves the NA scene. Plus the NATR probably has low ping for the CA players.
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-03 14:49:56
June 03 2016 14:49 GMT
#107
On June 03 2016 12:55 cLutZ wrote:
Frossie,

If you are arguing that MMR-based pick order is essentially random for all but higher MMR, that is not an argument against it. Pick order had to/has to be determined some way, and MMR is the best way given the tools the game has at its disposal. Random has no benefits to it, MMR gives the system a chance of giving the best player ban control and first role priority.

Given the new role-based queue an interesting thing would to assign pick order based on the relative probability that your assigned role is picked at that point in pro play. That would be kinda fun, for a day.

that's the point. pick order should not give any advantages to anyone in any case. that is why it was randomized
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-03 15:08:17
June 03 2016 15:07 GMT
#108
On June 03 2016 23:16 GrandInquisitor wrote:
This is kind of nice though for entirely the opposite reasons that Reddit thinks. Everyone has always criticized the NA ranked ladder for being too full of streamers instead of people tryharding. Maybe the streaming ban will create a subgroup of players that takes ranked more seriously and improves the NA scene. Plus the NATR probably has low ping for the CA players.

I'm pretty sure people like streams a lot more than NA doing well.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
June 03 2016 15:46 GMT
#109
--- Nuked ---
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
June 03 2016 15:56 GMT
#110
Same here. lolesports has a nice setup for the streams.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 03 2016 17:12 GMT
#111
On June 03 2016 23:49 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2016 12:55 cLutZ wrote:
Frossie,

If you are arguing that MMR-based pick order is essentially random for all but higher MMR, that is not an argument against it. Pick order had to/has to be determined some way, and MMR is the best way given the tools the game has at its disposal. Random has no benefits to it, MMR gives the system a chance of giving the best player ban control and first role priority.

Given the new role-based queue an interesting thing would to assign pick order based on the relative probability that your assigned role is picked at that point in pro play. That would be kinda fun, for a day.

that's the point. pick order should not give any advantages to anyone in any case. that is why it was randomized

But that is not what they did at all. Pick order still gives advantages, they just randomized the allocation of the advantage.

Its like if Warren Buffet established a scholarship fund that gave out 10,000 scholarships a year to Nebraska high school seniors. Whether he allocates those randomly, or by some merit that he chooses, 10,000 kids are still getting a leg up in life. By not choosing, you still are making a choice: The choice to abdicate responsibility.

We have a very recent esports example with elemental drake:

+ Show Spoiler +

G2 vs. Origen Game 1

G2 basically stomped this game, they controlled everything. @9 minutes they got first drake (air), @17 second drake (air again) and a 3k gold lead @ 24 3rd dake (air!) and a 6k gold lead, @28 baron >1 inhib, 2 inhib tower @31 4th drake (water), 11k gold lead, and they win at 34 mins or so.

Now, this is a happy tale because despite G2 getting almost no neutral objective rewards for their first 24 minutes of dominance, they won. On the other hand, they had to make some risky plays around baron, pulled off a baron, that could have swung the game, plays that would have been a formality with Earth, Water, or Fire drake buffs. Its not that random dragon didn't give any advantage because it was random. It did give an advantage (to Origen, just not enough to make up for them being much worse), it is just that Riot, by making it random, says "we didn't choose to give them 3 straight air drakes (even though, they did by choosing random).
Freeeeeeedom
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
June 03 2016 17:48 GMT
#112
You can't just say, if they had the same advantage with Fire Dragon they would have stomped, because Origen might have consciously chosen not to contest the Air Dragon because it was an Air Dragon, and taken something else in exchange.

(Not that they did, but just pointing out that Origen knew which dragon it was giving up when it decided not to contest.)
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
June 03 2016 17:58 GMT
#113
On June 04 2016 02:48 GrandInquisitor wrote:
You can't just say, if they had the same advantage with Fire Dragon they would have stomped, because Origen might have consciously chosen not to contest the Air Dragon because it was an Air Dragon, and taken something else in exchange.

(Not that they did, but just pointing out that Origen knew which dragon it was giving up when it decided not to contest.)

Well, that is just another advantage to Origen. G2 wanted to fight them at the early dragons so they could snowball their lead before item leads become less relevant, and also its pretty hard to take an early baron against the Corki-Varus poke. I mean, that is a throw waiting to happen.
Freeeeeeedom
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-04 02:02:20
June 04 2016 02:01 GMT
#114
The Issue with Autofill is it's just a even more bad version of prior champ select. Before everyone came in roleless, essentially autofilled, and they figure out their roles. now a couple people get their role, the rest are told they have to play a specific role, and yes they can ignore it, but it takes even more work to coordinate now than before it was added. not to mention you get the added queue times for a worse end result when you get autofilled.


And only NATR access players being able to actually play on a skilled ladder is going to hurt NA a ton. The asian scenes all switche to the KR server to avoid as much of the issues of dynamic queue+champ select as possible. the west can't do that ping-wise. EU isn't going to come to the NA server to cater to the west coast pro scene, and west coast to EUW is a nightmare.
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4186 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-04 15:52:38
June 04 2016 15:51 GMT
#115
I think autofill is 99.99% just adding support to your role selection, so its not that complex as you are trying to describe it. And if there is really a role that no one wants to play, until riot find a way to fix it (if possible at all), I think that is only fair all of us to equally share the responsibility.

Which servers got the autofill, outside of NA? any others?
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-04 16:35:51
June 04 2016 16:15 GMT
#116
On June 05 2016 00:51 M2 wrote:
I think autofill is 99.99% just adding support to your role selection, so its not that complex as you are trying to describe it. And if there is really a role that no one wants to play, until riot find a way to fix it (if possible at all), I think that is only fair all of us to equally share the responsibility.

Which servers got the autofill, outside of NA? any others?

Oh i just meant.

Before new champ select: 5 players have to fill their roles and have some choice

After autofill: some players have to fill, with no choice of role

The compromise for the huge increase in queue time, was a worse hero select than before.
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
June 04 2016 17:18 GMT
#117
Is it really that rare to not get a support in high Elo? After a quick google-fu it appears, from a 1 year old analysis, that ~10% of all challengers are support mains that's for both NA and EU ladder. So even if you have every non-support players not pick support or fill in their selection you are more likely to get a support player than not.

Using the naive assumption that master tier is following a similar distribution, it looks like autofill is more of a countermeasure against the low player pool than against a lack of role X players. To be honest I think this outrage against autofill is simply because people have forgotten how it was prior to role select you even have the option to not join a queue with autofill enabled. Long queue timers or opt into a shorter queue times and maybe not get a role you picked. For me it just seems like old system++

On a sidenote it's a bit interesting how EU supports are miles ahead of their NA counterparts. oO

Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/37rla0/role_distribution_in_challenger/
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
June 04 2016 17:47 GMT
#118
NA supports are miles ahead of the meta though
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Jek
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark2771 Posts
June 04 2016 18:41 GMT
#119
If an up to date analysis would still show EU supports are still doing significant better I'm tbh pretty baffled. NA supports in LCS/CS are in my opinion better than the ones we have over here. Maybe EU have an untapped talentpool of non-professional supports?
It's Elo not ELO - Every statiscian playing League
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
June 04 2016 20:43 GMT
#120
Maybe NA's pro supports just play less Soloqueue. Its hard to say without a real solid distribution graph.

/shrug

I know there were a few NA guys who refused to play support in soloqeue unless they were duoing with a pro ADC.
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