|
On June 03 2016 07:34 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 07:17 Slayer91 wrote: the beauty of statistics is that on average it does matter
a pseudo random system like this makes more sense than a pure random one
the 100 mmr on average makes a difference, how much doesn't matter because once you decide you want to give pick priority to higher ranked players you should do so i don't see why you want an arbitrary cut off point for when you should get first pick
we aren't stealing peoples first picks here, on average you'll still get the same amount of times first pick/last pick etc its just that in your games the higher ranked people get their roles more often
it was a good system I think. Not sure on their reasoning for removing it. Probably the toxicity of "last pick sucks".
like you're basically saying you shouldn't say a certain hand in poker is stronger than another because on a given day the "weaker hand" could win 9 times out of 10 yes it can but on average the stronger hand wins and on average the 100 mmr player is quite a bit better
you know what statistically evens out over time and has less exploitability and edge cases? random pick order. thus we have that instead now assuming random people every game it doesnt makes any difference and if u were duoing with person with significantly lower elo imo they should have lower pick order
|
Anyone else's ingame interface bugged all to hell?
Pings don't work at all. My enter key does literally nothing. I can't even get the chat box window to open. Same with Z to check the chat. Its just totally busted.
How am I supposed to communicate with no pings and no chat? Does this mean I am chat restricted? I only type timers and shit like "bait baron" in chat.
|
idk theres been a bunch of issues in general all over
i encountered the fiora bug a few days ago which doesn't let her TP until she hits a minion or some shit
and just today I had a bug with ziggs where I couldn't TP from base for like 5 seconds until I reached my nexus turret or w.e
not to mention tons of client bugs as well
|
Canada10567 Posts
Buying hextech champ shards is out.
If you own all but the 6300 champs, it's cheaper to buy the shards and get a random champ vs. buying champs outright.
I got 2 shards that I want to keep though, so it'll still be a while before I unlock any champs with it.
|
|
|
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
This is kind of nice though for entirely the opposite reasons that Reddit thinks. Everyone has always criticized the NA ranked ladder for being too full of streamers instead of people tryharding. Maybe the streaming ban will create a subgroup of players that takes ranked more seriously and improves the NA scene. Plus the NATR probably has low ping for the CA players.
|
On June 03 2016 12:55 cLutZ wrote: Frossie,
If you are arguing that MMR-based pick order is essentially random for all but higher MMR, that is not an argument against it. Pick order had to/has to be determined some way, and MMR is the best way given the tools the game has at its disposal. Random has no benefits to it, MMR gives the system a chance of giving the best player ban control and first role priority.
Given the new role-based queue an interesting thing would to assign pick order based on the relative probability that your assigned role is picked at that point in pro play. That would be kinda fun, for a day. that's the point. pick order should not give any advantages to anyone in any case. that is why it was randomized
|
On June 03 2016 23:16 GrandInquisitor wrote: This is kind of nice though for entirely the opposite reasons that Reddit thinks. Everyone has always criticized the NA ranked ladder for being too full of streamers instead of people tryharding. Maybe the streaming ban will create a subgroup of players that takes ranked more seriously and improves the NA scene. Plus the NATR probably has low ping for the CA players. I'm pretty sure people like streams a lot more than NA doing well.
|
|
|
Same here. lolesports has a nice setup for the streams.
|
On June 03 2016 23:49 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2016 12:55 cLutZ wrote: Frossie,
If you are arguing that MMR-based pick order is essentially random for all but higher MMR, that is not an argument against it. Pick order had to/has to be determined some way, and MMR is the best way given the tools the game has at its disposal. Random has no benefits to it, MMR gives the system a chance of giving the best player ban control and first role priority.
Given the new role-based queue an interesting thing would to assign pick order based on the relative probability that your assigned role is picked at that point in pro play. That would be kinda fun, for a day. that's the point. pick order should not give any advantages to anyone in any case. that is why it was randomized But that is not what they did at all. Pick order still gives advantages, they just randomized the allocation of the advantage.
Its like if Warren Buffet established a scholarship fund that gave out 10,000 scholarships a year to Nebraska high school seniors. Whether he allocates those randomly, or by some merit that he chooses, 10,000 kids are still getting a leg up in life. By not choosing, you still are making a choice: The choice to abdicate responsibility.
We have a very recent esports example with elemental drake:
+ Show Spoiler + G2 vs. Origen Game 1
G2 basically stomped this game, they controlled everything. @9 minutes they got first drake (air), @17 second drake (air again) and a 3k gold lead @ 24 3rd dake (air!) and a 6k gold lead, @28 baron >1 inhib, 2 inhib tower @31 4th drake (water), 11k gold lead, and they win at 34 mins or so.
Now, this is a happy tale because despite G2 getting almost no neutral objective rewards for their first 24 minutes of dominance, they won. On the other hand, they had to make some risky plays around baron, pulled off a baron, that could have swung the game, plays that would have been a formality with Earth, Water, or Fire drake buffs. Its not that random dragon didn't give any advantage because it was random. It did give an advantage (to Origen, just not enough to make up for them being much worse), it is just that Riot, by making it random, says "we didn't choose to give them 3 straight air drakes (even though, they did by choosing random).
|
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
You can't just say, if they had the same advantage with Fire Dragon they would have stomped, because Origen might have consciously chosen not to contest the Air Dragon because it was an Air Dragon, and taken something else in exchange.
(Not that they did, but just pointing out that Origen knew which dragon it was giving up when it decided not to contest.)
|
On June 04 2016 02:48 GrandInquisitor wrote: You can't just say, if they had the same advantage with Fire Dragon they would have stomped, because Origen might have consciously chosen not to contest the Air Dragon because it was an Air Dragon, and taken something else in exchange.
(Not that they did, but just pointing out that Origen knew which dragon it was giving up when it decided not to contest.) Well, that is just another advantage to Origen. G2 wanted to fight them at the early dragons so they could snowball their lead before item leads become less relevant, and also its pretty hard to take an early baron against the Corki-Varus poke. I mean, that is a throw waiting to happen.
|
The Issue with Autofill is it's just a even more bad version of prior champ select. Before everyone came in roleless, essentially autofilled, and they figure out their roles. now a couple people get their role, the rest are told they have to play a specific role, and yes they can ignore it, but it takes even more work to coordinate now than before it was added. not to mention you get the added queue times for a worse end result when you get autofilled.
And only NATR access players being able to actually play on a skilled ladder is going to hurt NA a ton. The asian scenes all switche to the KR server to avoid as much of the issues of dynamic queue+champ select as possible. the west can't do that ping-wise. EU isn't going to come to the NA server to cater to the west coast pro scene, and west coast to EUW is a nightmare.
|
I think autofill is 99.99% just adding support to your role selection, so its not that complex as you are trying to describe it. And if there is really a role that no one wants to play, until riot find a way to fix it (if possible at all), I think that is only fair all of us to equally share the responsibility.
Which servers got the autofill, outside of NA? any others?
|
On June 05 2016 00:51 M2 wrote: I think autofill is 99.99% just adding support to your role selection, so its not that complex as you are trying to describe it. And if there is really a role that no one wants to play, until riot find a way to fix it (if possible at all), I think that is only fair all of us to equally share the responsibility.
Which servers got the autofill, outside of NA? any others? Oh i just meant.
Before new champ select: 5 players have to fill their roles and have some choice
After autofill: some players have to fill, with no choice of role
The compromise for the huge increase in queue time, was a worse hero select than before.
|
Is it really that rare to not get a support in high Elo? After a quick google-fu it appears, from a 1 year old analysis, that ~10% of all challengers are support mains that's for both NA and EU ladder. So even if you have every non-support players not pick support or fill in their selection you are more likely to get a support player than not.
Using the naive assumption that master tier is following a similar distribution, it looks like autofill is more of a countermeasure against the low player pool than against a lack of role X players. To be honest I think this outrage against autofill is simply because people have forgotten how it was prior to role select you even have the option to not join a queue with autofill enabled. Long queue timers or opt into a shorter queue times and maybe not get a role you picked. For me it just seems like old system++
On a sidenote it's a bit interesting how EU supports are miles ahead of their NA counterparts. oO
Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/37rla0/role_distribution_in_challenger/
|
United States11393 Posts
NA supports are miles ahead of the meta though
|
If an up to date analysis would still show EU supports are still doing significant better I'm tbh pretty baffled. NA supports in LCS/CS are in my opinion better than the ones we have over here. Maybe EU have an untapped talentpool of non-professional supports?
|
Maybe NA's pro supports just play less Soloqueue. Its hard to say without a real solid distribution graph.
/shrug
I know there were a few NA guys who refused to play support in soloqeue unless they were duoing with a pro ADC.
|
|
|
|
|
|