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On May 20 2016 11:00 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 10:13 iCanada wrote:
I think LoL is a better game without Ryze. He is pretty much old Mordekeiser with CC and range. Either you poop on him real hard, kite him real hard, and finish the game early, or he wins. Every time. Isn't a binary outcome always what happens in a game of LoL? Are you in some kind of quantum-dimension where people can have 0,7 win and 0,3 loss after a game? How do you actually experience this polarity of a game with Ryze in it? Isn't it the same story with a Twitch on your or the enemy's team? What about Jinx? What about Azir? What about any other hyperscaling champion in the game that needs to be locked down with cc before you can kill them decently? Actually Ryze is some kind of mage juggernaut (albeit less tanky) that should be treated as one instead of your generic burst/control mage. If he gets on a carry and can't be kited, he'll win the game for you. And he should, since he was able to get close to your carries.
You can kill those if they position poorly, you can burst those, and those require offensive itemization. You can outplay a Twitch Jinx or Azir.
Ryze builds catalyst items and an item that gives a 500 damage shield and that's all he requires damage wise to roll over everything.
Ryze also can get away with TP so he will at some point flank you and kill you. Even SKT can't stop teams from getting TP wards down... unless your Ryze is retarded he will get TP flank wards at some point to run you down withe Homeguards.
I agree if he can consistently get on your carries he should win, thing is that with 2 items he doesn't have to. It requires 2 defensive MR items on a tank or bruiser to not get gibbed by a Ryze with passive up, but if you have that then any old ADC laughs in your face. He melts tanklines faster than a Leblanc can and he can roll through and do the same to the rest of your team too whereas LeBlanc has meaningful cds and can be outplayed. He is an untraditional and unhealthy champion unlike any other in the game.
You don't actually believe Ryze is a healthy champion do you? What do you think when the other team picks him? Because I think the only way I don't get absolutely rolled is if I gank him repeatedly, but he also farms safely and has the easiest 2v2 in pretty much the whole game. Feels real bad.
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On May 20 2016 11:23 kongoline wrote:
swain has almost 58% winrate today according to op.gg xD
he's been good since the hot fix, idk if 58% win rate good, but I was surprised how many people didn't know the hot fix even happened.
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Ryze is only unhealthy in the sense that Riot consistently messes up the balance on lategame champions. Its not like your skillshot W solution even fixes that problem. A home guard TP flank he will get a point blank W anyways. It just makes him even weaker in lane when minions are around...making the problem worse.
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I don't agree that it's nececarally bad to have super good late, really bad early heros, that said just changing everything to a skillshot is lazy balance that buffs almost every character that Ryze counters.
I guess it would be one thing if there wasn't so little point and click cc left in the game. Interestingly the most recent loss, Taric, being balanced against doing poor/low damage, which I think is what tilts people so hard about Ryze W.
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I don't think having a true lategame curve is bad.
I think it's bad that Ryze' curve is strongest champion on map from 15 minutes on regardless.
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On May 20 2016 08:37 Slusher wrote:
Her winrate day1 might also be meaningless as the general concensus has changed from q max to e max since yesterday.
I don't understand why people would Q max anyway? E has all of the easy wave clear plus hilarious soft control
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@purge
Played a normal as Viktor (against Lucian, which sucked) and felt like the key part of the build is the rylai and not the zhonya/abyssal. Maybe abyssal is more impactful than zhonya* but once I had rylai I could lay down Lasers and actually expect them to hit twice. The q slowdown didn't matter much because AOE slow is nearly as much. Though the speed up was valuable in all the ways it used to be.
*probably, 15 more resist on a resist that matters more plus the pen and for 150 gold less!
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On May 20 2016 11:00 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 10:13 iCanada wrote:
I think LoL is a better game without Ryze. He is pretty much old Mordekeiser with CC and range. Either you poop on him real hard, kite him real hard, and finish the game early, or he wins. Every time. Isn't a binary outcome always what happens in a game of LoL? Are you in some kind of quantum-dimension where people can have 0,7 win and 0,3 loss after a game? How do you actually experience this polarity of a game with Ryze in it? Isn't it the same story with a Twitch on your or the enemy's team? What about Jinx? What about Azir? What about any other hyperscaling champion in the game that needs to be locked down with cc before you can kill them decently? Actually Ryze is some kind of mage juggernaut (albeit less tanky) that should be treated as one instead of your generic burst/control mage. If he gets on a carry and can't be kited, he'll win the game for you. And he should, since he was able to get close to your carries.
Thing is with his damage he can burst tanks down almost all the same, and with the very low CD on his ult and its MS buff he will catch people anyway, or if any of his teammates catch a carry he'll get on them (unless somebody choke-full with cc or an assassin dives him to keep him busy, and that'll usually just feed him a kill at that point in the game).
And re:curves, it's not like Ryze's early game is bad. Even after they made Q a skillshot he still trucked melee champs from level 1 because E when people need to walk near the wave to last hit was dumb.
Making W a skillshot isn't the solution though, you still need champs like him to deal with eg. Kalista or Lucian.
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On May 20 2016 16:49 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 11:00 Uldridge wrote:On May 20 2016 10:13 iCanada wrote:
I think LoL is a better game without Ryze. He is pretty much old Mordekeiser with CC and range. Either you poop on him real hard, kite him real hard, and finish the game early, or he wins. Every time. Isn't a binary outcome always what happens in a game of LoL? Are you in some kind of quantum-dimension where people can have 0,7 win and 0,3 loss after a game? How do you actually experience this polarity of a game with Ryze in it? Isn't it the same story with a Twitch on your or the enemy's team? What about Jinx? What about Azir? What about any other hyperscaling champion in the game that needs to be locked down with cc before you can kill them decently? Actually Ryze is some kind of mage juggernaut (albeit less tanky) that should be treated as one instead of your generic burst/control mage. If he gets on a carry and can't be kited, he'll win the game for you. And he should, since he was able to get close to your carries. Thing is with his damage he can burst tanks down almost all the same, and with the very low CD on his ult and its MS buff he will catch people anyway, or if any of his teammates catch a carry he'll get on them (unless somebody choke-full with cc or an assassin dives him to keep him busy, and that'll usually just feed him a kill at that point in the game). And re:curves, it's not like Ryze's early game is bad. Even after they made Q a skillshot he still trucked melee champs from level 1 because E when people need to walk near the wave to last hit was dumb. Making W a skillshot isn't the solution though, you still need champs like him to deal with eg. Kalista or Lucian.
Champions with short range MUST have the ability to burn through tanks or they will be terrible. He isn't hitting that adc vs good players if he can't. Same principle with cass, mord and azir. If they have longer range or a gap closure they get less continuous damage because they can snipe the backline.
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On May 20 2016 16:56 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 16:49 Alaric wrote:On May 20 2016 11:00 Uldridge wrote:On May 20 2016 10:13 iCanada wrote:
I think LoL is a better game without Ryze. He is pretty much old Mordekeiser with CC and range. Either you poop on him real hard, kite him real hard, and finish the game early, or he wins. Every time. Isn't a binary outcome always what happens in a game of LoL? Are you in some kind of quantum-dimension where people can have 0,7 win and 0,3 loss after a game? How do you actually experience this polarity of a game with Ryze in it? Isn't it the same story with a Twitch on your or the enemy's team? What about Jinx? What about Azir? What about any other hyperscaling champion in the game that needs to be locked down with cc before you can kill them decently? Actually Ryze is some kind of mage juggernaut (albeit less tanky) that should be treated as one instead of your generic burst/control mage. If he gets on a carry and can't be kited, he'll win the game for you. And he should, since he was able to get close to your carries. Thing is with his damage he can burst tanks down almost all the same, and with the very low CD on his ult and its MS buff he will catch people anyway, or if any of his teammates catch a carry he'll get on them (unless somebody choke-full with cc or an assassin dives him to keep him busy, and that'll usually just feed him a kill at that point in the game). And re:curves, it's not like Ryze's early game is bad. Even after they made Q a skillshot he still trucked melee champs from level 1 because E when people need to walk near the wave to last hit was dumb. Making W a skillshot isn't the solution though, you still need champs like him to deal with eg. Kalista or Lucian. Champions with short range MUST have the ability to burn through tanks or they will be terrible. He isn't hitting that adc vs good players if he can't. Same principle with cass, mord and azir. If they have longer range or a gap closure they get less continuous damage because they can snipe the backline.
Yes but you cannot balance a game like league with both mid and late game champions on the same item lever. You can have some variation but the mathematics of item scaling ensure that either the late game champions will be too strong early or the early game champions will be too weak early, if they are to compete with champions on one of the other item schedules.
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On May 20 2016 13:28 JimmiC wrote:
Swain has swung the other way, his heal is so powerful if he goes ROA SV watch out tanky as hell and still hits decently hard.
Unkillable tank that hurts almost as a carry, who would have thought that Riot will come up with such concept ? xDDDD
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On May 20 2016 16:56 MuddyJam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2016 16:49 Alaric wrote:On May 20 2016 11:00 Uldridge wrote:On May 20 2016 10:13 iCanada wrote:
I think LoL is a better game without Ryze. He is pretty much old Mordekeiser with CC and range. Either you poop on him real hard, kite him real hard, and finish the game early, or he wins. Every time. Isn't a binary outcome always what happens in a game of LoL? Are you in some kind of quantum-dimension where people can have 0,7 win and 0,3 loss after a game? How do you actually experience this polarity of a game with Ryze in it? Isn't it the same story with a Twitch on your or the enemy's team? What about Jinx? What about Azir? What about any other hyperscaling champion in the game that needs to be locked down with cc before you can kill them decently? Actually Ryze is some kind of mage juggernaut (albeit less tanky) that should be treated as one instead of your generic burst/control mage. If he gets on a carry and can't be kited, he'll win the game for you. And he should, since he was able to get close to your carries. Thing is with his damage he can burst tanks down almost all the same, and with the very low CD on his ult and its MS buff he will catch people anyway, or if any of his teammates catch a carry he'll get on them (unless somebody choke-full with cc or an assassin dives him to keep him busy, and that'll usually just feed him a kill at that point in the game). And re:curves, it's not like Ryze's early game is bad. Even after they made Q a skillshot he still trucked melee champs from level 1 because E when people need to walk near the wave to last hit was dumb. Making W a skillshot isn't the solution though, you still need champs like him to deal with eg. Kalista or Lucian. Champions with short range MUST have the ability to burn through tanks or they will be terrible. He isn't hitting that adc vs good players if he can't. Same principle with cass, mord and azir. If they have longer range or a gap closure they get less continuous damage because they can snipe the backline.
Deal non-negligible damage to tanks != burst through tanks
Morde's supposed to burst because of Q anyway (his ult will hurt tanks too because it's a hell of a lot of %maxHP damage), while Azir is a "sustained pseudo-autoattack damage mage" who just burst squishies down (and had an AP ratio of his basic 6s cd combo that rivaled LB's, before actual sensible nerfs happened).
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is it only me who thinks new trinity is going to be insane? i personally plan on building it on darius,olaf even bruiser fizz wouldnt be surprised if adc like vayne, lucian will abuse it too 40% AS 20% cdr and move speed wtf are they thinking lol
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Australia18228 Posts
URFs so good for farming Lv6/7 masteries
Jesus Cass is cancer in URF
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Maybe part of the issue with Ryze W isn't that it's targeted, but that it's instant. Compare that to most other targeted stuns/roots (e.g., TF gold card) where you can see the CC coming and either black shield in reaction to it, flash away, dash away, etc.
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Yeah but you know whats going on when you see an angry smurf running at you.
Why do we call secondary accounts smurfs? How does that even make sense
Google says: smurf. noun. : The husband and wife were ''smurfs,'' a type of drug-money launderer. A husband-and-wife smurfing team will travel from bank to bank, posing as strangers. verb.
So I guess its just posing as someone other than yourself. TIL
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ryze is so stupid i ban him every game
here's how ryze works
Are you a ranged: well you have to play around his passive and kite him etc
Are you a melee: You have to all in him or you die every time you want to farm a single creep. If you can't all-in because jungler might be close you can't farm a single creep.
Unless you're playing something that can farm really well from ryze.
Really stupid hero not sure if he's even that broken he's just impossible to lane against for a ton of heroes
like him and quinn are just so stupid in the way that are so abusive to a bunch of melees in lane and just mediocre elsewhere
except ryze is pretty fucking good later too if your team has anyone with short range who isn't full tank
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@Swain: I think a large part of his current succes is that people dont pick up a grievous wounds item early enough (if you look at probuilds there's even games where he smashes and nobody on enemy team got grievous wounds), in lane I think you can even consider executions calling sort of like QSS was used against Trundle/Fiora etc. That and people have just forgotten how to play against/what to play him.
While I know ARAM is a terrible comparison to a normal game, most ARAM aficionados have seen many a times what happens in team fights if nobody can debuff his healing at level 2 ultimate.
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basically play a mid laner and get morellos because riot doesn't give a lot of options for grevious wounds
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EPT
