EPT[Patch 6.1] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 8
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 16 2016 04:32 JimmiC wrote: OR you know be sensible and be like X is really good. Y is not bad but could be tweaked like so. W I really don't like because a b c. If we added D that might fix the problem. Instead of QQQQQQQQQQ Role-specific queues are bad because I think players should be forced into playing things they don't like. I am mean like that. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On January 16 2016 04:39 cLutZ wrote: Role-specific queues are bad because I think players should be forced into playing things they don't like. I am mean like that. mostly because they only function at the most population dense parts of a ladder, or at parts of a ladder where position distribution is even. If supports are most likely to climb, then role queues will be nightmares for supports at high levels, and heaven for them at lower levels. same goes for every other role (mid and ADC have this issue on NA). | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On January 16 2016 03:41 PrinceXizor wrote: Things can be good for the longevity of a game without being good for it's player base, and vice versa. Riot specifically mentioned that part of the benefits of the system is removing any MMR adjustments for group play That's a scary thing. Without some adjustments for group play and separately handled MMRs, you're going to ruin games. If I get carried (or bogged down) by my friendstack of 2-4 people in 80% of my games, whenever I queue up as solo I'm going to be a gameruiner. Surprised people haven't talked about that aspect more really. This problem persists even if groups only ever play groups/identical party distributions, too, so that won't solve it. | ||
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On January 15 2016 23:58 Osmoses wrote: - I don't soloQ because I'm desperate for interaction from the rest of my team. - rank is an abstract concept, eventually you are getting matched with other people that, premade or not, you have about 50% chance of beating. (this is the ego I was talking about, wah I'm no longer platinum!) - I don't see how facing the best opponents you could hope for would be punishment for someone who only cares about getting better. But hey, keep raging, eventually you might even get to try it. edit: and now people are mentioning it, I also remember reading that this thing you're raging about isn't actually even possible. Anybody got source? 1. Wait, when I want to use the "it's a team game!" argument suddenly it's just my ego feeling lonely in a 4-1 team setup? It's very common that duo queuers play through the whole game without writing anything in team chat, aside from good jobs and such, but it's fine because a.) there are other people to discuss things with (basic stuff like talking to the jungler, or setting up a gank, or telling/asking someone to split a certain lane), and the duo players still read the chat and they can be convinceable. Now, why would a 4-men premade listen to my input? And it's ridiculous that you try to turn this into an ego thing, when it's already been discussed when dynamic queue was initially introduced that even in dota2, a game which uses a somewhat similar system, does not allow 4-men premades in ranked. It's just a shitty experience for everyone involved, even for those 4 guys. 2. "rank is an abstract concept" You see, I do not expect everyone to have the same values in this game as I do. I know there are people who are happy in bronze/silver, I know there are people who only want to play with friends, and I know there are people who are just obsessed with a champion, and they just want to play with him/her as much as possible. It's great! But let's not shit on each others fun, shall we? I'm not saying you should not be allowed to play with your friends in ranked, but please, do not test my patience when you try to dismiss something serious (ranks) with another empty sentence. You are playing all your arguments safe with having this liberal mindset that nothing really matters and everything is subjective and we should all hold hands and be happy. I hardly think I was the only person playing League, who was motivated by ranks and getting better. It was the endgame in LoL for many of us. Now, here's a system where you are on a same ladder with people who might play as 4 or 5 men premades all the time. How is that fair, normal, logical? I'm not even saying they'll have an advantage over me. Some will certainly rise above their solo rank, because they get teamed up with better players and they can literally carry him, while others will stuck with friends who might not give a shit and they constantly lose games to other, much more organized 5 men premades. We are still talking about SOLO queue, and the name might change, but you still get a solo rank. 3. All right, here's X. X is playing since season 1 and in season 5 he finally reached masters, almost got into challenger as well. He played a lot of games, improved a lot over the seasons, and he earned his place among the best. X was very excited for season 6, because he was hoping to reach challenger this time. Then, dynamic queue comes in, and X is matched against a premade team of LCS players. As X is getting destroyed by people who are literally that good that they get paid for playing this game, you walk up behind him, and tell him that "heads up buddy. Isn't challenge what you always wanted?" I can't put an estimate on how quickly he'd murder you, but it would happen. Yes, technically, you are right. Chain an athlete's feet together and you can call it a challenge, but come on, having a tough competition and playing with unfair rules and disadvantages are two entirely different things. The thing is, you clearly don't care much about ranked. If Riot would announce that from tomorrow onwards ranked will be 7vs7 on Twisted Treeline you'd just say "cool, something new!" And I'm not even saying you are not allowed to have such an opinion, I am glad we are playing for different reasons and have different values and different ideas about having fun, but the way you are shitting all over serious concerns is both amusing and annoying. Just because there are clearly personal reasons behind most of the concerns we voice, you shouldn't just say "oooh, you are losing your precious rank? QQQQQ how sad!!!", when individual butthurt aside, dynamic queue will progressively destroy the ladder and thus the rankings. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On January 16 2016 08:19 JimmiC wrote: The fact is the que times and so on were shit for the top .1 % before. And riot as a company was not looking to fix that. They were looking to make it better more fun for the large % of the population. And someone said "oh no now the top people will all have to pick fill to get a game. Guess what? that's what the old system was lol. Yeah but the queue time is still longer than it was before, even for fill players at the top end. Scarra's queue time doubled for example, and he ran fill, my queue times in low diamond are about a minute longer and i fill. They made queuing a worse experience for the people ranked well. for the sake of being able to add people at a lower end of ranking so they could play an individually ranked mode as a team. Thats really shitty. because the point of an individually ranked mode, is to be ranked and compete individually. the only real difference between ranked solo queue and normals IS that. the individual ranking. This update added nothing positive for top ranked players, with the exception of one trick or feed ponies. Which you have to think of as odd, given the point of ranking systems Is to encourage people to try for those top ranks. The problem is certainly more than just the top .1% though. it's the top 2-3% that are nothing but shafted, and the top 15-18% (plat+) that are hurt a small amount and everyone else is shafted if they play majority of games solo. | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7232 Posts
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AlterKot
Poland7525 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7232 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
Really, even if I take aside all the glaring flaws of this dynamic queue, its still hilarious how Riot is failing to implement it after so much testing on the PBE. Sure, eventually they will sort it out and not just crawling out of a hole just to fall into another one, but it's still yet another black day for Riot and their incompetence. It is beyond me how can't you hire people to avoid disasters like this. They basically have unlimited money; how hard is it to get a team, which actively monitors feedbacks from the PBE and have an actual community manager, instead of random Rioters stomping into the china shop, with possibly good intentions, but absolutely failing to properly deliver their message. The worst offender is Lyte by far. If Riot had a good community manager and a team around him/her, they would've asked Lyte to refrain from ever posting anything on any social media and just do his work silently in his basement. Sure, this time it's a highly controversial situation, so I guess no one expected Riot to not fall by stepping on 100 banana peels in a row, but even when they actually do nice things, they can manage to communicate it in the worst way possible, so they have to make at least 3 explanations to the enraged community after that. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On January 16 2016 08:56 NovaTheFeared wrote: I don't see the point in having to pick 2 roles if anyone with 2 or more in the queue can get their first pick 100% of the time. I believe you have to pick one more role then you are players. duo = 3 roles trio = 4 4/5 = all 5 | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On January 16 2016 08:58 Volband wrote: Lmao, and they just increased queue times even more. Haha... Better take notes, in case grandchildren will ask around the once giant game, LoL. Really, even if I take aside all the glaring flaws of this dynamic queue, its still hilarious how Riot is failing to implement it after so much testing on the PBE. Sure, eventually they will sort it out and not just crawling out of a hole just to fall into another one, but it's still yet another black day for Riot and their incompetence. It is beyond me how can't you hire people to avoid disasters like this. They basically have unlimited money; how hard is it to get a team, which actively monitors feedbacks from the PBE and have an actual community manager, instead of random Rioters stomping into the china shop, with possibly good intentions, but absolutely failing to properly deliver their message. The worst offender is Lyte by far. If Riot had a good community manager and a team around him/her, they would've asked Lyte to refrain from ever posting anything on any social media and just do his work silently in his basement. Sure, this time it's a highly controversial situation, so I guess no one expected Riot to not fall by stepping on 100 banana peels in a row, but even when they actually do nice things, they can manage to communicate it in the worst way possible, so they have to make at least 3 explanations to the enraged community after that. I mean realistically the only way they can fix matchmaking huge gaps in skill together, after drastically reducing the pool of players with dynamic queue, is to increase matchmaking times. This is what i expected the solution to entail. The only other way would be to revert the queue, or somehow increase the player base instantly, which isn't possible outside of shenanigans like turning off 3v3's and normals. Given that Lyte's team is on this project, and how adamant they seem to be. i Wonder if League's hit the point of decline in terms of active players. They are trying to pool as many players together in queues as they can with dynamic queue to try to retain a falling user base. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On January 16 2016 09:09 FinestHour wrote: where do you see user base falling It's not something I have data for or anything. But these actions would make sense to be taken to try to reverse a slump in players. Getting people to play in groups is a good way to drag players who left back in through their friends, and a good way to keep people on the fence about leaving kept in by their friends. Add to that the lack of talk about player growth in a long time from riot. and the pretty big drop off in stream numbers for a lot of top league streamers from about 2 years ago. it makes me wonder if that is the case. Though the stream numbers thing could easily jsut be there are more streamers that people like so viewers are more split up. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On January 16 2016 09:03 PrinceXizor wrote: I mean realistically the only way they can fix matchmaking huge gaps in skill together, after drastically reducing the pool of players with dynamic queue, is to increase matchmaking times. This is what i expected the solution to entail. The only other way would be to revert the queue, or somehow increase the player base instantly, which isn't possible outside of shenanigans like turning off 3v3's and normals. Given that Lyte's team is on this project, and how adamant they seem to be. i Wonder if League's hit the point of decline in terms of active players. They are trying to pool as many players together in queues as they can with dynamic queue to try to retain a falling user base. I understand that, but it raises the question: how much nuisance (like increased queue times) is it worth to have an already player base dividing system mostly operational? If you are going to shove dicks down our throat, at least make it as pleasurable as it can possibly be, instead of attaching even more baggage to it. Honestly, if they will force this abomination through as it is, I am pretty convinced we can start counting backwards for League. It's amicable that the only players who might actually welcome this new ranked system are those who were mostly playing normals with friends. Now, they can do the same, just in dynamic queue. Everyone else will be either indifferent to the changes, or experience various levels of disappointment, especially the way Riot's been handling it. The only reasonable thing I can think of as to why Riot felt the need to completely screw up something that's been working perfectly ever since, is because the playerbase might have been declining already, and some Riot boss had terrible visions of LoL falling out of favor in a few years, so he asked his most trusted goon, Lyte, to make something radical. On January 16 2016 09:14 JimmiC wrote: You all that are really mad should really teach riot and stop playing! Oh wait you won't you just like to complain like what happens every time they update anything, release a new champ, change jungle, shorten a adc attack range so he's "useless" blah blah blah. You mean like the unaddressed feedbacks from PBE, which actually prompted Lyte to respond to them AFTER making dynamic queue go live and - surprise, surprise - people on live complaining about those things as well? Yeah, poor Riot. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
At least we've been told that there isn't plans to continue this into Season 6. though the way lyte worded it is very not-the-whole-truth-y. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
There isn't really a reason to stop playing her (apart from Lucian being available instead). As for the user base, it people queue up all the time, it helps get more people in ranked, it also gives benefits to people for playing in premades (see crafting which is basically "stack up or pay RP", but also the IP boost week-ends who changed into "IP bonus for premades", and the Mundo skin as a reward if people stacked up a lot during the week they tested that). It's not about retaining a user base, Riot wants to give people incentive to stack up because it makes them more likely to spend money, bring friends to the game, etc. anyway. It's also a more casual approach, but considering the very casual (setting aside the game's barrier of entry, even to Bronze level) nature of most of the player base, being about competitiveness has never been Riot's priority in terms of business model (not the priority != they don't care at all). If you harm the feelings of players who are less likely to spend, but won't stop playing/spending anyway, and won't have any bearing on the other groups (if even reddit can't agree on the importance of having soloQ vs "true skill" being as part of a premade 'cause "team" game, don't expect communities outside of this kind of circlejerks to pay attention), it's not a big deal. Especially not if you give the other, bigger spending groups, more incentive to spend and expand. I know people who have spent a lot more money than most of you, relative to how long they've played the game and how much content they've unlocked, and they don't watch the LCS, they aren't interested in being good (ladder anxiety, and basically only asked someone to boost their accounts through placements and a couple games later to gold because they thought the Sivir skin pretty), they aren't competitive at all and only talk about LoL in indirect ways (a thread in a community forum, or amongst Skype contacts, etc. but never on a site like reddit, LL, mobafire or new equivalents, etc.) and barely pay attention to the patch notes. But they buy a bunch of skins, and they like to offer mystery gifts to their friends, with the implication that they'll get some back, or trade them for the thrill of "will I manage to get you a champion you hate / a skin for that champion you own but hate", etc. Teemo skins are basically twitch streams' "troll" donations. They won't play alone, but they'll spend more, and make people they play with more likely to spend, so you change the systems and play up the "community" aspect so that you remove the barriers that may make these people's contacts play less with them (such as ranked 5s being harder to set up, or ranked being forbidden for 3+ stacks). At this point, even giving Riot feedback is only about ironing out the most directly disfunctional stuff. The client doesn't get to directly shape up the company's strategy and projects, especially when he isn't a professional in the field himself. | ||
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. If there is one thing I have learned in my 5 or so years of playing this game is unless people whine hard enough about shit it isn't gonna change.
