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On October 02 2015 05:01 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 04:36 Vorenius wrote:On October 01 2015 23:51 Sufficiency wrote:On October 01 2015 23:42 Vorenius wrote:On October 01 2015 23:05 Sufficiency wrote:On October 01 2015 22:38 Caiada wrote:
Point out to me a tournament where more than one game was decided by a significant AA. Yep. On the other hand, tons of games were ruined by random power outage, VISA, bugs, etc.. But following your (flawed) logic, these issues shouldn't be fixed because they don't happen EVERY game. Of course critting DOES happen every game but somehow doesn't effect the outcome? I'll echo previous posters; you are probably just purposefully obtuse due to boredom/whatever Yummy personal attack. Yay! No. I am saying those things happen more often than a series of lucky crits ruining a game. Classic misdirection. Saying crit shouldn't be changed because there are other issues, isn't a good defense for crit. It's just a stab at Riot. The only argument you have presented for keeping crit as is, is that power outages and bugs are, in your opinion, worse. Not only is the priority people would give these different problems (they are all problems) highly subjective, it's still not in any way a reason to keep crit. When you can't even give a single reason as to why the current crit system should be kept, yet still argue about over several pages... Well, I'm sorry but your sincerity obviously seems questionable. It is actually a really good argument. If there are X items that needs to be fixed, then prioritize and fix the more important stuff. The impact of the issue is definitely a factor to consider. This isn't a misdirection; it's how the real world works. As far as moving crits into the Ashe system, it is not that simple. Conventional knowledge says consistent streams of damage (no crits) is generally stronger since the damage is more stable and there is less overkill. It will also force fixes for Yasuo, Ashe, and Randuin's (maybe shiv too).
Of course it's misdirection. Sorting out VISA issues, preventing power outages, these aren't things that take resources from the design team. Programming bugs are a grey area, but it's probably separate department, or at least different people, doing it.
At least you've now admitted that crits ISN'T a good stat and it should be changed eventually. If you think there are other design issues that should be solved first, fair enough. That's subjective and I can't argue against it, only disagree. I am interested in which design issues you feel are more important though. So far you have provided none afaik.
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On October 02 2015 05:33 Vorenius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 05:01 Sufficiency wrote:On October 02 2015 04:36 Vorenius wrote:On October 01 2015 23:51 Sufficiency wrote:On October 01 2015 23:42 Vorenius wrote:On October 01 2015 23:05 Sufficiency wrote:On October 01 2015 22:38 Caiada wrote:
Point out to me a tournament where more than one game was decided by a significant AA. Yep. On the other hand, tons of games were ruined by random power outage, VISA, bugs, etc.. But following your (flawed) logic, these issues shouldn't be fixed because they don't happen EVERY game. Of course critting DOES happen every game but somehow doesn't effect the outcome? I'll echo previous posters; you are probably just purposefully obtuse due to boredom/whatever Yummy personal attack. Yay! No. I am saying those things happen more often than a series of lucky crits ruining a game. Classic misdirection. Saying crit shouldn't be changed because there are other issues, isn't a good defense for crit. It's just a stab at Riot. The only argument you have presented for keeping crit as is, is that power outages and bugs are, in your opinion, worse. Not only is the priority people would give these different problems (they are all problems) highly subjective, it's still not in any way a reason to keep crit. When you can't even give a single reason as to why the current crit system should be kept, yet still argue about over several pages... Well, I'm sorry but your sincerity obviously seems questionable. It is actually a really good argument. If there are X items that needs to be fixed, then prioritize and fix the more important stuff. The impact of the issue is definitely a factor to consider. This isn't a misdirection; it's how the real world works. As far as moving crits into the Ashe system, it is not that simple. Conventional knowledge says consistent streams of damage (no crits) is generally stronger since the damage is more stable and there is less overkill. It will also force fixes for Yasuo, Ashe, and Randuin's (maybe shiv too). Of course it's misdirection. Sorting out VISA issues, preventing power outages, these aren't things that take resources from the design team. Programming bugs are a grey area, but it's probably separate department, or at least different people, doing it. At least you've now admitted that crits ISN'T a good stat and it should be changed eventually. If you think there are other design issues that should be solved first, fair enough. That's subjective and I can't argue against it, only disagree. I am interested in which design issues you feel are more important though. So far you have provided none afaik.
I never said it was perfect. I only questioned its supposed impact on the game. If the claim was "death to crit", then the burden shouldn't be on me to demonstrate the impact. But as we have seen over the years, power outage, VISA, bugs, have all greatly affected the game while no one has yet to pinpoint a game where it was won due to crit RNG.
Let's go back to design issues since you don't seem interested in the greatest RNG known as group draw (IWC has only won one game since S2). One big issue is that of blue side advantage. Something which Riot has never taken seriously even though it seems fairly obvious from many angles that blue side has an advantage due to the camera and the field of view. Yet rotated map was never introduced - and as far as I can tell will never happen. Thiis creates an interesting scenario in the final because the sides are randomly chosen - whoever has the blue side will have a real and/or perceived advantage.
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People don't care about group draw because it doesn't really matter in your every day playing league and riot just has never been interested in making a good format. On the blue side I am probably biased never felt a difference except before when you could do golems as blue side but there was no gromp. In fact I prefer playing on purple.
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United States47024 Posts
Riot's also never disjoined blue from first pick to explore whether draft advantage can be used to counteract map advantage. That's actually far more feasible than developing the rotated map.
Having choice of 1st/2nd pick and choice of blue/purple side be separate would naturally make the game fairer in competitive.
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Let's be real. They probably tested it internally with their team of silver players and 6 pro players and decided it won't work.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 02 2015 06:00 nafta wrote:
Let's be real. They probably tested it internally with their team of silver players and 6 pro players and decided it won't work.
No I'm sure they conducted a study and used a lot of university research to find that it made the game 37.15% less fun to play.
I just want Captain's Mode.
User was warned for this post
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On October 02 2015 05:57 TheYango wrote:
Riot's also never disjoined blue from first pick to explore whether draft advantage can be used to counteract map advantage. That's actually far more feasible than developing the rotated map.
Having choice of 1st/2nd pick and choice of blue/purple side be separate would naturally make the game fairer in competitive.
I agree; that's a good partial solution that is easier to implement. Oh wait, this has never happened over how many years now?
Silly me 
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On October 02 2015 06:04 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 05:57 TheYango wrote:
Riot's also never disjoined blue from first pick to explore whether draft advantage can be used to counteract map advantage. That's actually far more feasible than developing the rotated map.
Having choice of 1st/2nd pick and choice of blue/purple side be separate would naturally make the game fairer in competitive. I agree; that's a good partial solution that is easier to implement. Oh wait, this has never happened over how many years now? Silly me
How does something not happening have anything to do with it?
At least you're admitting that you're being silly here, that's a good sign.
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On October 02 2015 06:13 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 06:04 Sufficiency wrote:On October 02 2015 05:57 TheYango wrote:
Riot's also never disjoined blue from first pick to explore whether draft advantage can be used to counteract map advantage. That's actually far more feasible than developing the rotated map.
Having choice of 1st/2nd pick and choice of blue/purple side be separate would naturally make the game fairer in competitive. I agree; that's a good partial solution that is easier to implement. Oh wait, this has never happened over how many years now? Silly me How does something not happening have anything to do with it? At least you're admitting that you're being silly here, that's a good sign.
Except no one has yet to provide even one example of crit RNG ruining the game when there are tons of examples of RNG ruining the game in other ways. In fact, it is not even clear if we can eliminate all RNG from the game, some of which are clearly more severe than crit.
Silly me indeed.
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Uhh. I mean we havBT drug up the specific games but the obvious examples aren't exactly hidden. And we have already produced th structure that proves it will have an effect.
I mean he'll, just today doesn't dlifts jinx got like 5 attacks off on trist while singing a turret and none of them crit and the game was a lot closer than it would have been if the average would have happened
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On October 02 2015 06:32 Goumindong wrote:
Uhh. I mean we havBT drug up the specific games but the obvious examples aren't exactly hidden. And we have already produced th structure that proves it will have an effect.
I mean he'll, just today doesn't dlifts jinx got like 5 attacks off on trist while singing a turret and none of them crit and the game was a lot closer than it would have been if the average would have happened
CLG won that game the last time I checked.
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And? You want me to go to the other side and see some unlucky crit string and then say that clearly FW lost?
If you're not just talking about swinging an important fight then what kind of proof do you need? Do you need God to come down and say that the other side would have won?
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United States47024 Posts
TBH the pause (and by extension, the vision bug that necessitated the pause) had more impact on that game than any feasible string of crit or no-crit lol.
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On October 02 2015 06:24 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 06:13 Fildun wrote:On October 02 2015 06:04 Sufficiency wrote:On October 02 2015 05:57 TheYango wrote:
Riot's also never disjoined blue from first pick to explore whether draft advantage can be used to counteract map advantage. That's actually far more feasible than developing the rotated map.
Having choice of 1st/2nd pick and choice of blue/purple side be separate would naturally make the game fairer in competitive. I agree; that's a good partial solution that is easier to implement. Oh wait, this has never happened over how many years now? Silly me How does something not happening have anything to do with it? At least you're admitting that you're being silly here, that's a good sign. Except no one has yet to provide even one example of crit RNG ruining the game when there are tons of examples of RNG ruining the game in other ways. In fact, it is not even clear if we can eliminate all RNG from the game, some of which are clearly more severe than crit. Silly me indeed.
We have, and this is the same argument again. Let's not remove this bad thing because there are worse things. That is not a good argument so stop bringing it up again and again.
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On October 02 2015 06:38 Goumindong wrote:
And? You want me to go to the other side and see some unlucky crit string and then say that clearly FW lost?
If you're not just talking about swinging an important fight then what kind of proof do you need? Do you need God to come down and say that the other side would have won?
Doublelift had some unlucky RNG rolls. CLG won nevertheless. Clearly the better team can overcome a temporary setback due to RNG. It seems to fit my narrative perfectly, thank you.
Truth be told I didn't really watch that game closely, so thanks for the example.
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On October 02 2015 06:41 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 06:24 Sufficiency wrote:On October 02 2015 06:13 Fildun wrote:On October 02 2015 06:04 Sufficiency wrote:On October 02 2015 05:57 TheYango wrote:
Riot's also never disjoined blue from first pick to explore whether draft advantage can be used to counteract map advantage. That's actually far more feasible than developing the rotated map.
Having choice of 1st/2nd pick and choice of blue/purple side be separate would naturally make the game fairer in competitive. I agree; that's a good partial solution that is easier to implement. Oh wait, this has never happened over how many years now? Silly me How does something not happening have anything to do with it? At least you're admitting that you're being silly here, that's a good sign. Except no one has yet to provide even one example of crit RNG ruining the game when there are tons of examples of RNG ruining the game in other ways. In fact, it is not even clear if we can eliminate all RNG from the game, some of which are clearly more severe than crit. Silly me indeed. We have, and this is the same argument again. Let's not remove this bad thing because there are worse things. That is not a good argument so stop bringing it up again and again.
It is a very good argument. It's one of priorities. There are many things wrong with this game. Complaining about crit RNG is red herring.
I am not going to reply to you again, but you should let that sink in a bit.
User was warned for this post
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United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2015 06:41 Fildun wrote:
We have, and this is the same argument again. Let's not remove this bad thing because there are worse things. That is not a good argument so stop bringing it up again and again.
I mean, the implication being made is that it takes no effort to change crit because the pseudo-crit mechanic already exists on one champion (which is *probably* true, but not *definitely* true because LoL's codebase is actually a huge mess). If that is NOT the case, then the "there are more important things" argument becomes reasonable because developer time is finite and needs to be prioritized.
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On October 02 2015 06:45 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 06:41 Fildun wrote:On October 02 2015 06:24 Sufficiency wrote:On October 02 2015 06:13 Fildun wrote:On October 02 2015 06:04 Sufficiency wrote:On October 02 2015 05:57 TheYango wrote:
Riot's also never disjoined blue from first pick to explore whether draft advantage can be used to counteract map advantage. That's actually far more feasible than developing the rotated map.
Having choice of 1st/2nd pick and choice of blue/purple side be separate would naturally make the game fairer in competitive. I agree; that's a good partial solution that is easier to implement. Oh wait, this has never happened over how many years now? Silly me How does something not happening have anything to do with it? At least you're admitting that you're being silly here, that's a good sign. Except no one has yet to provide even one example of crit RNG ruining the game when there are tons of examples of RNG ruining the game in other ways. In fact, it is not even clear if we can eliminate all RNG from the game, some of which are clearly more severe than crit. Silly me indeed. We have, and this is the same argument again. Let's not remove this bad thing because there are worse things. That is not a good argument so stop bringing it up again and again. It is a very good argument. It's one of priorities. There are many things wrong with this game. Complaining about crit RNG is red herring. I am not going to reply to you again, but you should let that sink in a bit.
You're literally looking at each post and trying to find a random thing to disagree with, there's no actual cohesive argument or point to what you're saying... it's literally like trying to argue with my 12 year old sister.
You're pivoting all over the place from "it's not relevant" to "it can be overcome by way higher skill" to "riot can't issue visa's" to "riot has limited resources" to god knows what else...
Like if your only goal is to prove other people wrong then we can keep going forever, but if you actually have a point of view that isn't just the opposite of whatever the most recent post is, then can you please state it so we can actually have a discussion...
On October 02 2015 06:35 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2015 06:32 Goumindong wrote:
Uhh. I mean we havBT drug up the specific games but the obvious examples aren't exactly hidden. And we have already produced th structure that proves it will have an effect.
I mean he'll, just today doesn't dlifts jinx got like 5 attacks off on trist while singing a turret and none of them crit and the game was a lot closer than it would have been if the average would have happened CLG won that game the last time I checked.
This kind of post is just completely ridiculous, he makes a very good, pointed example of how crit dramatically changed the course of a game, and you claim that means absolutely nothing because 20 minutes later, clg happened to win the game. I'm sure you understand why that's completely dumb, and if anyone else had said that you would have torn into them with all sorts of fancy words for logical falacy's they were using. Can you please try and apply those standards to yourself
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? What was the point of deleting that? Anyway to reply.
It does not matter how riot decides to implement streaky/non-streaky crit. What matters is that, if its not entirely deterministic, it will have an effect on some game.
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EPT
