EPTSliiiiide to the right
Criss cross!
Such RNG
User was warned for this post
[Patch 5.19] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 7
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
Sliiiiide to the right Criss cross! Such RNG User was warned for this post | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On October 01 2015 17:05 Osmoses wrote: And how is this relevant when it's already been established that riots crit code is not, in fact, memoryless? I like crit, some randomness is good for a game, any and all anectodes mentioned about how crit change the outcome of a game mean nothing because if all it took was a crit then the game was clearly close enough to be fair either way. Who the hell wants to play a game that is 100% deterministic anyway? It isn't. The edit however is quite relevant since the structure holds for any generating function which is non deterministic. As for who wants to play that game? Me. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
On October 01 2015 17:57 nafta wrote: Did you actually compare dodging skillshots to rng? I can't even Christ, you people -_- No, juking a skillshot that is shot far enough away is not RNG. But then that's not exactly a sick outplay either, it's a choice where the odds are 100% in your favor. But when the odds are not 100% in your favor due to proximity or speed or whatever the direction you juke is just a calculated risk. What you base the odds on depends on your own skill and experience, such as your ability to read your opponent or how quick your reactions are (and yes, calculating these odds is another marker of skill), but it's still just a calculation of odds. Playing the game well is always position yourself and to make decision that give you better odds than the opposition, yes? As such, sick outplays happen when you beat the odds, or they would not be impressive. And the fact that you built items which gives you a certain chance to crit is simply adding a larger element of RNG to your odds. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
You comparing reading your opponents to actual rng is hilarious not gonna lie. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
Any game where you do not have complete information can be thought of as having an element of chance, even if the only hidden information is the varying skills off opponents. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
You guys are scaring me. It's like one group of guys are like "crit is bad" and the other group is like "well its only actually bad a really small amount of the time" which is a dumb argument because something that is rarely bad is still bad. The better argument is whether or not crit adds anything to the game, since its simple to remove and doing so would solve the downside. I don't think it adds anything to the game. The last time Riot really talked about it they disagreed, but maybe they will change their minds. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
I also don't see how the location of the enemy jungler is RNG in any way. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 01 2015 20:53 Fildun wrote: Everything in the game except crit and creep block and stuff like that comes down to player skill, so I want to remove crit. I also don't see how the location of the enemy jungler is RNG in any way. It's not RNG , nor is it luck. It's just incomplete information that you have to use your knowledge and skill to determine most likely location. You can even take measures to minimize the variance by things such as deep warding. Equating Crit to stuff like is rather baffling. To me it smells like someone trying to play devils advocate even if it doesn't make sense. On October 01 2015 21:04 Osmoses wrote: Well, I think crit is a good thing because sudden big numbers is a rewarding feeling in any game, but I think LoL could possibly do without it considering there are so many other interesting variables in the game. That said, the feeling of a surprise crit, whether yours or the enemy's is pretty irreplaceable. It's a wonderful gradient of ohshit to fuckyes. It's exciting. So the argument boils down to feels good? When a limiting design element boils down to "feels good" I think there's cause for concern. There's nothing to say that the design space opened up by the removal of crit can not evoke the same feel good in a way that doesn't cause issues in the game. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
And when it happens to me I'm of course content with the outcome, but I still think "That was disgusting to be fair, I'd prob be raging if that happened to me." | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 01 2015 20:36 Ketara wrote: I tried to go back and report a bunch of posts but there's so many and my wifi is so slow. You guys are scaring me. It's like one group of guys are like "crit is bad" and the other group is like "well its only actually bad a really small amount of the time" which is a dumb argument because something that is rarely bad is still bad. The better argument is whether or not crit adds anything to the game, since its simple to remove and doing so would solve the downside. I don't think it adds anything to the game. The last time Riot really talked about it they disagreed, but maybe they will change their minds. It is a very good argument to claim the effect of RNG is exaggerated or the event happens rarely. It's like saying why World Championship is played on a stage instead of a bunker since there is a non-zero chance that NK/Russia will nuke the city. You simply cannot account for all theoretical scenarios that may ruin the game. Also, like I have eluded to before, if the crit RNG becomes a problem, Riot can just tune their algorithm instead of removing crit completely. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
The same can not be said for NK attacking Berlin. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
If you actually watch pro games closely you see people are constantly either dying purely because someone crit, or living purely because they didn't crit. So far the only arguments "for" crit i've seen are "it's not as bad as you say it is" a bunch of random strawmans "I like it when games are completely random" "big numbers are exciting" "russia might invade germany" "league is objectively a random game, not a skill based one" and "it's needed to give adc's potential threat in the early game" While the last one (while i disagree with it, just look at bloodthirster times) is actually a theoretically debateable point, the rest are just... | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You can argue that if it did you'd have even more potential for significant complains that'd actually indirectly fuel the anti-crit group, though.  | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On October 01 2015 22:38 Caiada wrote: Point out to me a tournament where more than one game was decided by a significant AA. Point me to a single day of close lcs games, where there was no point where either a crit or lack of a crit would could have resulted in multiple kills going the other way... | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Kaethis
Netherlands112 Posts
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