• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:19
CET 09:19
KST 17:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League76Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
Recent recommended BW games Oceanic Brood War - Join and chat! Bot on ladder BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group C
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7392 users

[Patch 5.18] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 2

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 23 24 25 Next All
loSleb
Profile Joined December 2010
Austria1389 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-15 21:13:08
September 15 2015 21:12 GMT
#21
It's almost nothing if you think about it. 0.5 AD is half an auto. I guess it helps lvl 2.
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
September 15 2015 21:16 GMT
#22
I mean its a bonus half-auto!
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
September 15 2015 21:20 GMT
#23
On September 16 2015 06:12 loSleb wrote:
It's almost nothing if you think about it. 0.5 AD is half an auto. I guess it helps lvl 2.

It scales off .5 *bonus* ad so it's even shittier
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
September 15 2015 21:23 GMT
#24
Less than that since it's a bonus AD ratio.

Re: Dota, Leshrac exists, Zeus exists, QoP gets a lot out of her spells early too.
You can give farm to other casters for either an Aghs or the means to make their mana pools big enough to keep casting.
You could technically run an all-caster type comp, and if they don't scale well into the later stages of the game then you'd have to win by midgame, the exact same way full physical/magic comps exist in LoL (magic assuming your AD carry is something like Corki).

The reason they aren't more popular isn't that "all physical is bad" in a conceptual sense, but rather that the incentive doesn't outweight the risks: you have to win by the midgame, which requires that either you outplay the enemy team (in which case you could win with a safer comp), or an all-physical comp has an item/level spike powerful and early enough to seize momentum and get a decisive lead (or end the game) then.
The latter doesn't exist, especially considering that falling behind with such a comp is a death sentence. But it's tied to the balance of various champions, not to some systemic element/design paradigm in LoL preventing such a thing.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
MooMooMugi
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States10531 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-15 21:30:33
September 15 2015 21:27 GMT
#25
its 0.5 bonus AD so assuming you run 15 AD on ezreal via runes + 4AD from masteries thats 19 bonus AD so a whopping total extra 9.5 damage on your lvl2 powerspike!

Late game when you have +200 bonus AD from items its hardly noticeable at all, +100 extra damage on a 4k HP tank late game is not worth pulling a Zuna/Woolite for.

If it scaled off TOTAL AD then that would be a decent buff to Ezreal's early game to early mid-game.
|LoL & SC2 IGN both my username| Just livin' the baylife| Hearthstone ID: MooMooMugi#1544| Dank Memer since 2011
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
September 15 2015 21:30 GMT
#26
Doesnt matter because it doesn't prioritize champs. It is a big and good buff but doesn't change anything when you lose lane to every single ad.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-15 21:48:57
September 15 2015 21:37 GMT
#27
It's not about getting stuff from their spells it's about spells having item scaling. (They do not). Such an AP carry cannot exist in dota as they do in league. This isn't bad it's just a different design decision. Otherwise you're just talking about item versus level scaling (which I talked about as a big differentiator in dota positions but it's the same differentiator in league positions too)

To say that this isn't a part of the systematic design of dota is foolish. AP doesn't exist and that is a design decision! Full Ability focused champion compositions are weak as a specific result of systematic design of dota!(split and predictable damage types, split defensive options, no ability scaling). You're essentially giving up an entire avenue of scaling and negate much of the power of farming the map. This is a design choice.

Edit: I don't want to make a "better" or "worse" statement. It's like comparing basketball and soccer/football. One isn't better for using its hands or having more rules or giving the ball back at the baseline rather than mid field after a goal. One isn't more mechanical for using its feet or hands. You're going to like one better if you prefer one aspect to another (for me it's turn speeds) but neither is better or worse or more mechanical or has a more diverse meta. Those statements just don't make sense for how we can categorize play. It's just two ways to put a ball in a net and you prefer the one you prefer. But to say that how football/basketball plays isn't a result of the design decisions is just wrong.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-15 21:56:03
September 15 2015 21:54 GMT
#28
On September 16 2015 06:37 Goumindong wrote:
It's not about getting stuff from their spells it's about spells having item scaling. (They do not). Such an AP carry cannot exist in dota as they do in league. This isn't bad it's just a different design decision. Otherwise you're just talking about item versus level scaling (which I talked about as a big differentiator in dota positions but it's the same differentiator in league positions too)

To say that this isn't a part of the systematic design of dota is foolish. AP doesn't exist and that is a design decision! Full Ability focused champion compositions are weak as a specific result of systematic design of dota!(split and predictable damage types, split defensive options, no ability scaling). You're essentially giving up an entire avenue of scaling and negate much of the power of farming the map. This is a design choice.


Just because ability power doesn't exist doesn't mean spellcasters don't scale with items.

There are actually three main ways in which DotA spells scale with items: Mana and mana regen (more spells/engagement), Cooldown (Octarine Core), and raw effect (Aghanim's). The three most picked and banned solo mid heroes at the moment do the majority of their damage through magic damage skills scaled through at least one of these ways (Storm Spirit = Mana and mana regen, Leshrac = Mana and mana regen and to a lesser extent Octarine, Lina = Mana and Aghanim's).

Then there are other cases like Skywrath Mage who scales incredibly well with items as a core because one of his skills has built-in ability power since it scales with intelligence, a stat you can buy.

I mean, if ability power didn't exist in League, you could still have casters like Ryze.
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-15 21:57:17
September 15 2015 21:56 GMT
#29
crucially they get a LOT more auto damage from int (ap/mana) than league heros, it would be like if you got your tower auto damage to other heros.
Carrilord has arrived.
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
September 15 2015 22:46 GMT
#30
Comparing the meta of Dota 2 to the meta of League is so incredibly pointless 99% of the time.
XDG Mata
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
September 15 2015 22:59 GMT
#31
Good thing we weren't.
Not gonna bother further though.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
September 15 2015 23:03 GMT
#32
On September 16 2015 05:46 Parametric wrote:
Taking a slow and measured approach to my favorite champion instead of tacking on the massive knock up that was on the PBE with plant AI improvements... good job Riot.

My guess is that they didn't realize how twitchy the plant AI was and how much of a buff it would be to her damage, we'll see how this pans out though, it's not like Zyra ever lacked in damage in support or mid.


Nothing is more fun as Zyra than watching your plant fire twice at a target then stop shooting at ANYTHING before the target even leaves your plant's range. Personally, I'm gonna miss it
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
asymptotech
Profile Joined May 2013
United States295 Posts
September 16 2015 01:39 GMT
#33
Maybe now I can figure out if I'm actually hurting Tahm Kench
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
September 16 2015 03:52 GMT
#34
On September 16 2015 10:39 asymptotech wrote:
Maybe now I can figure out if I'm actually hurting Tahm Kench

the answer is yes but it doesn't matter cause he has 2 health bars anyways
Bronze player stuck in platinum
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-16 04:05:02
September 16 2015 04:04 GMT
#35
Attempted patch note translation

+ Show Spoiler +
---------------
# Patch 5.18 notes

By Scarizard

_ Got patching problems? [Check the Boards](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/help-support/6EY84k6l-new-having-issues-patching-518-click-here) for tips and solutions!_

##

> Greetings, summoners.

Welcome to Patch 5.18, the one the World Championships will be played on. That’s a lot of pressure for one patch (and to be honest 5.18’s kinda nervous about it), but we believe in its ability to provide a fine-tuned experience for pros, spectators and average joes alike.

Let’s dig into that for a second. 5.18 isn’t about nerfing juggernauts into oblivion (or buffing Trinity Force) - It’s about meaningful options. Creating a landscape where teams have the _option_ to invest in pocket-picks or non-standard strategies is just as important as being able to put them into practice when the time comes. Our changes this patch reflect a commitment to that mentality, powering down the dominant picks that threaten to take an axe to diversity (lookin’ at you, Darius) while also handing out some feel-good buffs to once-great staples (like Twitch) to stir the pot and set the stage for an open playing field.

That’s really all for us here. Though the patch may be large in breadth, our aim isn’t to go very deep on any one particular champion. We hope you’ll consider all of these options being presented, rather than defaulting to that pocket Poppy pick we know you all have up your sleeves. Once upon a time we might have said AD Mordekaiser, but look at us now.

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://news.cdn.leagueoflegends.com/public/images/avatars/ScarizardIcon_thumb.jpg) Patrick "Scarizard" Scarborough

Back to top

## Champions

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Anivia.png&resize=64:)

### [Anivia](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/anivia/)

E’s frosted bonus works on Dragon and Baron.

> While not the worst at taking neutral objectives thanks to her amazing zoning potential, Dragon and Baron’s inability to be CC’d meant that Anivia’s bonus damage interaction with Frostbite wasn’t working - this changed for Ashe during her rework, and seeing as we’re pretty big fans of consistency we figured we’d fix it as a neat buff for ice birds everywhere.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/Frostbite.png&resize=32:)E - Frostbite

STAY FROSTY Now treats Dragon and Baron as ‘frosted’ for the purposes of Frostbite’s double damage if they’ve been hit by Flash Frost or Glacial Storm in the last few seconds.

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Braum.png&resize=64:)

### [Braum](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/braum/)

Q cost up.

> Back in 5.12, we double-buffed Braum’s ability to fish with Q’s and start more fights with a lower cost - looking at the last few patches of professional play, it would seem that we were successful. We love Braum being used for the epic moments Unbreakable and Glacial Fissure can provide, but we’re reverting one of the changes we made back then to keep the risk/reward paradigm on Winter’s Bite in line. We’re intentionally playing it safe on the big guy, but making sure there’s a cost to missing the moment without chipping away his reward feels right for how dominant he’s been.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/BraumQ.png&resize=32:)Q - Winter's Bite

COST 45/50/55/60/65 mana ⇒ 55/60/65/70/75 mana

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Caitlyn.png&resize=64:)

### [Caitlyn](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/caitlyn/)

W cost and cooldown reduced.

> You have the right to remain salty. Ever the go-to for marksmen-in-training, Caitlyn’s strategic niche of pushing and sieging has had a lot of its thunder stolen from the likes of Jinx and Tristana. That said, when hyper-carries like Vayne and Kog run rampant, it’s up to the 650-range arm of the law to take ‘em down. Placing more power in her traps aids her ability to keep opposing marksmen pinned under tower without necessarily making her more effective at clicking on melee champions and making them cry.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/CaitlynYordleTrap.png&resize=32:)W - Yordle Snap Trap

COOLDOWN 20/17/14/11/8 seconds ⇒ 16/14/12/10/8 seconds

COST 50 mana ⇒ 30 mana

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Darius.png&resize=64:)

### [Darius](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/darius/)

Q’s heal per unit reduced, but maximum heal and mana cost increased.

> The least mobile of the Juggernauts from 5.16, it’s Darius’s seemingly endless longevity in fights that tip the tension of triggering this Noxian Might into a foregone conclusion, wiping the battlefield clean of anyone unfortunate enough to be in range. Seeing how rough his release was (and how oppressive he is now), we’re taking a measured approach to find a middle ground where Darius can still succeed in fights, but has to work harder to pull off the same unstoppable feats as before.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/DariusCleave.png&resize=32:)Q - Decimate

HEAL PER CHAMPION HIT 15% of missing health ⇒ 12% of missing health

MAXIMUM HEAL 30% of missing health ⇒ 36% of missing health

COST 30 mana at all ranks ⇒ 30/35/40/45/50 mana

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Elise.png&resize=64:)

### [Elise](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/elise/)

Spiderling damage down.

> Now that we’ve had a few patches to observe the effects of the spiderling changes we made back in 5.14, it’s safe to say they’re scaling too well for a champion whose core strength lies in significant impact in the early-game. We’ve opted to hit the base over scaling to preserve the tradeoffs present in her itemization; building damage should still get you damage, but tankier Elise builds shouldn’t be able to get most of that while still being able to survive.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/EliseR.png&resize=32:)R - Spider Form

SPIDERLING BASE DAMAGE 10/20/30/40 ⇒ 10/15/20/25

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Ezreal.png&resize=64:)

### [Ezreal](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/ezreal/)

E now scales with AD. The world is ending.

> Ezreal players have always been separated into two camps: those that Arcane Shift away from danger, and those that Arcane Shift directly into it. We’re not necessarily endorsing reckless play, but taking a calculated risk with Ezreal should feel like it has an appropriate pay-off. Arcane Shift may always be more of an escape than a combo-finisher, but loading damage into it rewards aggressive positioning as he’ll have to sacrifice his safety to access it. Who needs an escape?

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/EzrealArcaneShift.png&resize=32:)E - Arcane Shift

newRATIO Now additionally scales 0.5 bonus attack damage

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Fiora.png&resize=64:)

### [Fiora](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/fiora/)

Base armor, base health, and health per level reduced.

> As a master duelist, Fiora’s new skillset gives her a wide array of tools to tactically dodge or mitigate incoming damage with grace. The issue isn’t smart use of her maneuvers, but rather her effectiveness when she fails to execute. At present, she’ll just beat you over the head, vitals or not. Hammering away at base stats mean that fighting Fiora (especially pre-6) should feel like less of a stat-check and more of an engaging clash of blades, putting more pressure on her to succeed with style or pay the ultimate price.

* * *

#### General

BASE ARMOR 27 ⇒ 24

BASE HEALTH 570 ⇒ 550

HEALTH GROWTH STAT 92 ⇒ 85

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/FioraQ.png&resize=32:)Q - Lunge

DANCIN’ IN THE DARK Now reveals Fiora to her target if she hits them while in the Fog of War

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/FioraW.png&resize=32:)W - Riposte

AND WHAT DO WE SAY TO DEATH? Riposte now properly parries Thresh’s Death Sentence

SHE REALLY DID PARRY IGNITE Riposte’s tooltip correctly includes ‘Debuffs’ in the list of things it blocks

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Galio.png&resize=64:)

### [Galio](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/galio/)

> We’ve always felt that Galio’s failure case for his ultimate is positioning, not execution. Limiting the cases you could accidentally ruin your biggest moment should keep you focused on the things that matter; like landing your ult on 5 people (and probably winning).

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/GalioIdolOfDurand.png&resize=32:)R - Idol of Durand

NO TAKE-BACKS Idol of Durand can’t be cancelled by movement commands for the first 0.25 seconds of its duration if it strikes at least one champion

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Garen.png&resize=64:)

### [Garen](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/garen/)

Cleaning up Villainy.

> Garen’s a man of simple tastes; he spins, yells, and most importantly fights for his friends. As a protector of the meek and timid, it never made much sense that taking down the hero directly should brand you as a villain when it’s just business. We want Garen’s anti-carry to play out over the course of the game like a sort of vindictive hot-potato, but you shouldn’t be penalized for successfully crushing his dreams in lane.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/GarenR.png&resize=32:)R - Demacian Justice

removedSELF-DEFENSE Killing Garen no longer causes the killer to gain Villainy

removedCLONE WARS Fixed a bug where killing a clone of Garen’s allies caused the killer to gain Villainy

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Gangplank.png&resize=64:)

### [Gangplank](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/gangplank/)

Powder Keg’s bonus damage to champions and armor penetration down.

> Still vengeful, still eating citrus and still going strong, Gangplank’s power levels seems to be unhindered by our attempts to cap him in 5.17. Often you’ll find in the Patch Notes we talk about hitting a champion’s weakness to keep their strengths intact - for GP however, his strength is simply _too strong_. The amount that barrels contribute to his ability to take over a game is entirely too high in the end-game, so we’re hitting both the base and penetration to soften his blows against squishies and meatballs alike.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/GangplankE.png&resize=32:)E - Powder Keg

BONUS DAMAGE TO CHAMPIONS 80/110/140/170/200 ⇒ 60/90/120/150/180

ARMOR PENETRATION 50% ⇒ 40%

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/JarvanIV.png&resize=64:)

### [Jarvan IV](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/jarvaniv/)

Base armor up _very_ slightly.

> Oh, Jarvan. Prince of the Jungle, King of Dunkshire, fourth of his name; once proud to call the early-game his stomping ground, our last round of nerfs removed the armor aura on Demacian Standard, and J4’s jungle presence disappeared with it. We sent him off with a little more base armor for his troubles, but it’s clear that it wasn’t enough to keep up with the Rek’Sai’s, Gragases and other top-tiers crowding out his spot.

That said, we’re not looking to dust of his throne exactly; J4’s deadly combination of early gank pressure and late-game initiation have made him a general power-pick whenever he’s deemed viable, often centralizing play around who is or isn’t good enough to compete with the Prince. Keeping that in mind, we saw an opportunity with the buffs to Warrior Enchant for a slight nudge to keep Jarvan from getting too down on himself. We’ll spare you the months of spreadsheets that went into the exact calculations, but in the end we settled on 2 armor.

* * *

#### General

BASE ARMOR 27 ⇒ 29

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Lulu.png&resize=64:)

### [Lulu](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/lulu/)

Less health per level, but Pix can now double-apply Spellthief's gold passive.

> Ever the solo-lane staple, Lulu’s personal safety is a tad high for her reliability as a team-enabler. We’re targeting her health to make her more vulnerable (personal vulnerability being a _slightly_ more important stat for solo lane Lulu than duo) before she starts pumping out high-powered shields and kiting the universe. To compensate (a bit), we’re adding in a nice benefit for support Lulu’s income.

* * *

#### General

HEALTH GROWTH STAT 82 ⇒ 74

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/passive/Lulu_PixFaerieCompanion.png&resize=32:)Passive - Pix, Faerie Companion

PIXPOCKET Pix can now trigger Tribute (from the Spellthief item line) once per Lulu’s basic attack

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Mordekaiser.png&resize=64:)

### [Mordekaiser](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/mordekaiser/)

Base stats down early game. W can now be self-cast, has a health cost, but the damage no longer overlaps with his ally. Healing is increased vs. champions, but worse vs. minions.

> Perhaps the most notorious of the Juggernauts, Mordekaiser’s problems heading into 5.18 are twofold - as a duo laner, Mord’s sustain and waveclear give even his toughest opponents little-to-no window to punish his lack of range. On the flipside, solo-lane Mordekaiser’s lack of sustain makes him underperform when under pressure, folding to common lane freezes or jungler intervention.

The changes below are aimed at bringing this disparity closer together for Mordekaisers of all flavors. Attacking the effectiveness of Harvesters’ zone play means duo lane Mord’s healing less, dealing less damage, and generating less shield for those early lane-trades and all-ins that slant heavily in his favor. Letting Morde self-cast the skill should give him some more punch back in solo lane, but, for this patch, we’re more focused on seeing how it all plays out before assessing our next move.

* * *

#### General

ARMOR 24.88 ⇒ 20

ARMOR GROWTH STAT 3.5 ⇒ 3.75

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/MordekaiserCreepingDeathCast.png&resize=32:)W - Harvesters of Sorrow

newWELCOME BACK Can be self-cast even when alone

removedDON’T LET ME INTO MY ZONE Damage no longer doubles when the zones overlap

COST No Cost ⇒ 25/35/45/55/65 health

ZONE RATIO 0.6 ability power ⇒ 0.9 ability power

DEACTIVATION DAMAGE 50/70/90/110/130 ⇒ 70/95/120/145/170

HEALING AGAINST MINIONS 33% ⇒ 25%

MAXIMUM UNITS DRAINED 3 targets ⇒ 2 targets

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Morgana.png&resize=64:)

### [Morgana](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/morgana/)

Q mana cost down.

> Just a light bump to reinforce Morgana’s pattern of fishing for Dark Bindings, especially for the supports out there working their mana overtime. Y’all the real MVP’s.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/DarkBindingMissile.png&resize=32:)Q - Dark Binding

COST 50/60/70/80/90 ⇒ 50/55/60/65/70

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Skarner.png&resize=64:)

### [Skarner](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/skarner/)

Passive weaker early. E slow down.

> Skarner’s not beating people senseless, but it’s clear that he’s still generally too powerful. Skarner’s definitely checking the box on ‘relentless in his zones’ but has more chasing power than is ideal for a Juggernaut. Peeling back some of that stickiness as well as some of his unintended early scaling (oops) should move us closer to a Skarner that scraps, but doesn’t always scuttle away victorious.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/passive/Skarner_Passive.png&resize=32:)Passive - Crystal Spires

OVER-CHARGED Fixed a bug where Crystal Charge’s Attack Speed and Movement Speed were scaling too quickly at early levels and too slowly at later levels

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/SkarnerFracture.png&resize=32:)E - Fracture

SLOW 45/50/55/60/65% ⇒ 30/35/40/45/50%

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Syndra.png&resize=64:)

### [Syndra](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/syndra/)

Mana per level up. E-Q more consistent.

> This patch, we’re taking a lighter look at some of Syndra’s frustrations; namely running out of mana for a champion that has to cast so many spells back-to-back, and fixing more bugs around her E-Q combo’s penchant for misfiring. We’re still investigating deeper changes to Syndra that seek to address her lackluster performance, but some short-term value for the Dark Sovereign didn’t seem like it’d hurt (unless you’re on the other end. That probably hurts a _ton_).

* * *

#### General

MANA GROWTH STAT 50 ⇒ 63

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/SyndraE.png&resize=32:)E - Scatter the Weak

THE ONE WHO KNOCKS Correctly knocks back spheres when cast immediately after a max-range Dark Sphere

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/TahmKench.png&resize=64:)

### [Tahm Kench](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/tahmkench/)

Q+W combo is easier to normal cast. E’s Grey Health is now visible for colorblind folks.

> Tahm’s been a regular house-guest in the Patch Notes since release as we keep finding ways to smooth his gameplay for all parties. This time around, we’ve added some clarity around TK’s grey health in colorblind mode, something that previously hindered opponents being able to see if he had any at all (that’s a pretty important thing, mind you). Add in a side of usability for his Q+W combo and you’re looking at a snack-size changelist that might tide you over for this patch.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/TahmKenchQ.png&resize=32:)Q - Tongue Lash

TONGUE TIED Smoothed out the interaction between the Tongue Lash + Devour combo for normal cast. Now, casting Devour at any point while the tongue is mid-air will allow you to eat a monster or minion from a distance instead of needing to left-click devour mid-lash.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/TahmKenchE.png&resize=32:)E - Thick Skin

RAISING VISIBILITY The color of Tahm’s grey health for himself and enemies has been changed in colorblind mode to be visible.

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Twitch.png&resize=64:)

### [Twitch](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/twitch/)

Twitch stealths faster while in combat.

> The landscape of the game’s changed quite a bit since Twitch was last a staple pick, but looking at his hyper-carry competition, the rat’s primed for a big comeback. Already seeing spot play for the unique assassination he brings from the bottom lane, these changes pair with 5.16’s Ambush tweaks to ease the pains of setting up (or escaping) sticky situations.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/TwitchHideInShadows.png&resize=32:)Q - Ambush

STEALTH DELAY WHILE TAKING DAMAGE 6 seconds ⇒ 4.5 seconds

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Veigar.png&resize=64:)

### [Veigar](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/veigar/)

Q grants AP for assists. W’s delay shortened.

> Veigar’s not far off in terms of effectiveness, but falls short relative to some of our more traditional mages. We’re targeting Dark Matter’s delay and AP growth from taking down champions as some ‘quality-of-doom’ changes so folks take him a little more seriously.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/VeigarBalefulStrike.png&resize=32:)Q - Baleful Strike

ASSISTED DOOM Now grants AP on champion _assists_ in addition to champion kills.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/VeigarDarkMatter.png&resize=32:)W - Dark Matter

DOESN’T EVEN MATTER Front-loaded Dark Matter’s effects to the beginning of the cast animation instead of the end; Delay and cooldown effectively reduced by 0.25 seconds

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/champion/Zyra.png&resize=64:)

### [Zyra](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/zyra/)

Zyra’s plants are much more consistent at acquiring targets. It’s a pretty big deal.

> If you’re a Zyra player, you’re no stranger to having your plants misbehave (or sometimes just stop... doing anything, really) when you want them to rip your enemies to shreds. We’ve all been there, so we took a look under the hood to re-root how they work. What we had left was pretty scary. We’re not opposed to further changes (if necessary) but ‘my plants actually attack when they didn’t' ended up a lot stronger than we first thought, so this patch we’re planting the seeds and waiting to see what grows.

* * *

#### ![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/spell/ZyraSeed.png&resize=32:)W - Rampant Growth

SMART PLANTS Plants will reprioritize attack targets when their primary target is obscured by fog of war instead of simply ceasing to fire altogether.

FORGET-ME-NOTS Plants now prioritize the target Zyra has most recently attacked rather than the closest target she has attacked in the past 4 seconds. Champions recently attacked will still be prioritized over minions.

Back to top

## Items

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/item/3710.png&resize=64:)

### [Enchantment - Devourer](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/items/)

Magic damage per stack down.

> As far as the Jungle Enchant Quartet is concerned, Sated’s settled into the top spot which is a little off for how much of a gamble the item should be. High highs and low lows are key tradeoffs for the item, but its general level of success seems to be slightly warping the game at most levels of play. We don’t want to harm the cool synergies that champions have with Phantom Hit, but lowering the raw on-hit damage the item has as it grows to dominance should keep Devourer junglers off the Warrior’s early-game turf when it comes to the ‘Rock-Paper-Scissors-Runeglaive’ of jungle power-spikes.

BONUS MAGIC DAMAGE PER STACK 1 ⇒ 0.67

SATED DEVOURER DAMAGE ON-HIT 60 ⇒ 50

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/item/3707.png&resize=64:)

### [Enchantment - Warrior](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/items/)

5 AD

> We’ve come a long way from the beginning of 2015, where Warrior junglers reigned supreme and ‘diversity’ was deciding between Jarvan and Lee Sin. Since then, Cinderhulk, Runeglaive and now Sated Devourer have entered the arena as options to flesh out and support a wider variety of styles, leaving Warrior feeling limp by comparison.

While perhaps not as shiny mechanics-wise, Armor Penetration does a good enough job differentiating its use from the others (Flat Armor Pen’s _real_ good at murderizing softer champs) that we’re tuning back the damage to assist those early-game folks when it comes to doin’ what they do best.

ATTACK DAMAGE 40 ⇒ 45

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/item/3050.png&resize=64:)

### [Zeke's Harbinger](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/items/)

Armor down. Charge-up duration lowered.

> Zeke’s has definitely succeeded in providing an offensive multiplier for marksmen and mages alike, but its widespread adoption as a first item for supports suggests its stat-efficiency may be a little out of whack for something with a high burden of coordination to pull off. We’re also aiming at pulling some of the consistency at which teams can ‘plan’ for their Zeke’s activation, putting the responsibility on the Harbingers to force fights against opponents when they're about to fire their lasers.

ARMOR 35 ⇒ 30

CHARGE-UP DURATION 8 seconds ⇒ 5 seconds (Zeke’s Crit/AP bonus remains at 8)

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/5.17.1/img/item/3742.png&resize=64:)

### [Dead Man's Plate](http://gameinfo.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/items/)

> Because being turned into a squirrel would probably make you lose a bit of your momentum.

ADORIBUS Lulu’s **W - Polymorph** now causes the target to lose momentum.

Back to top

## Disappearing Missiles Fix

> As we’ve touched on a few times over the past several months, we’re in the process of tackling League’s tech debt. This time, we’re addressing a bug where the game client (your computer) could incorrectly cancel a spell that still existed on the server. This led to cases where a spell could briefly appear on screen and then immediately visually disappear, but still be able to hit enemies. Sounds simple, so why a giant patch notes section?

While there’ve been a few high visibility (heh) cases of this bug in the past, it wasn’t specific to any handful of abilities. Instead, the bug was rooted in the way the game servers and the game client exchange information. Basically, the server’s cancel command was too generic - rather than “stop this thing”, it just told the game client to “stop a thing”. In cases where multiple similar actions were happening in extremely rapid succession, the game client had to guess at what the server was trying to stop, and this bug happened when it guessed wrong.

Along the lines of past efforts such as the [Line Projectile Skillshot recoding](http://engineering.riotgames.com/news/behind-leagues-new-missile-system) and the champion rescripting projects in more recent patches, we’ve gone back and cleaned up the core of our spell flow code with an eye toward ensuring spell cancelling involves no ‘guesswork’. We’ve been comprehensively testing this update for a while, but as always we’ll be keeping an eye on things as this change rolls out and follow up as necessary in future patches.

HIDE WHILE SEEKING Fixed a rare interaction that could cause in-flight missiles to visually disappear while still being able to hit enemies

WE KNOW YOU’LL ASK This change will fix cases of disappearing Nidalee spears _that fall under this bug_, but the bug where spears never show up in the first place is a separate issue

Back to top

## Howling Abyss

### Recall Animations

> Because we should all be able to spam Pool Party Renekton’s recall while waiting for the minions to arrive.

TOTAL RECALL Recalling will play your skin’s recall animation and visual/audio effects if your skin has one (Recall’s blue laserbeams will not play, and you won’t have a cast or channel bar. Damage still interrupts the animation).

Back to top

## HUD Updates

> Just another set of updates as we continue to bathe in your glorious feedback.

* Summoner names now display on the scoreboard
* Team frames above the minimap are larger and more readable
* Spectator HUD ultimate timers are now larger and more readable
* Ping button added to the minimap

Back to top

## Instant Feedback System

> We've added a bunch of new features to the Instant Feedback System. Our [announcement](http://eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/instant-feedback-powers) has the full story, but here's the quick version:

* The system can detect intentional feeding
* Reform cards are accessible in-client
* Chat and ranked restrictions have been added to the punishments the system can assign

Back to top

## Bugfixes

* Zac's **E - Elastic Slingshot** max travel range now matches the indicator
* Challenging Smite's debuff can now properly be removed by Cleanse
* Darius no longer gains the Noxian Might buff from his **Passive - Hemmorhage** if the application of his fifth blood stack is blocked by a spell shield
* Fixed a few cases where Viktor was gaining mana when hit by certain abilities
* Cassiopeia's **W - Miasma** is no longer sometimes invisible to the enemy team
* Azir's **R - Emperor's Divide** no longer pushes back/damages Zz'Rot Portals
* Fiora's **W - Riposte** tooltip now mention that it blocks all debuffs

Back to top

## Upcoming Skins

This skin will be released during patch 5.18:

![](https://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://news.cdn.leagueoflegends.com/public/images/articles/2015/september_2015/PN518/Kalista_2.jpg&resize=256:)

#### [Championship Kalista](http://news.cdn.leagueoflegends.com/public/images/articles/2015/september_2015/PN518/Kalista_2.jpg)


Still quite a while to go, but I hope to be able to translate this into a Reddit friendly format in the future.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
September 16 2015 04:47 GMT
#36
Is this me but are those Marauder/Warden new skins damn awful?
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
Purge
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada372 Posts
September 16 2015 04:50 GMT
#37
I like them? Esp the Karma one :D
"Never do an enemy a small injury." - Machiavelli
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29905 Posts
September 16 2015 04:54 GMT
#38
Kindred jungle clear PBE

+ Show Spoiler +
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
Purge
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada372 Posts
September 16 2015 05:54 GMT
#39
On September 16 2015 13:54 739 wrote:
Kindred jungle clear PBE

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoiU1oNau9A


For someone with terrible understanding of current clear times and their relevance, is this a good time?

Like what am I actually seeing here?
"Never do an enemy a small injury." - Machiavelli
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-16 06:52:35
September 16 2015 06:44 GMT
#40
On September 16 2015 14:54 Purge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2015 13:54 739 wrote:
Kindred jungle clear PBE

+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoiU1oNau9A


For someone with terrible understanding of current clear times and their relevance, is this a good time?

Like what am I actually seeing here?


It's an absolutely terrible time.

But then again, the route he takes is incredibly stupid. Golems Birds Red wtf?

Looking at that video I think with a more polished clear she'd prob jungle just fine.



More importantly, this champion has the coolest voice ever.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 23 24 25 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 42m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft506
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2507
Horang2 893
Hyuk 654
Leta 155
Dewaltoss 112
Killer 104
Larva 98
Pusan 70
EffOrt 58
Mind 46
[ Show more ]
ZergMaN 24
Noble 20
Sharp 17
League of Legends
JimRising 557
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss306
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox686
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr115
Other Games
summit1g9482
ceh9377
Sick136
Livibee37
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick612
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH262
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2346
League of Legends
• Stunt387
Other Games
• Scarra1149
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2h 42m
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
15h 42m
The PondCast
1d 1h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 2h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
Yamato Cup
5 days
Map Test Tournament
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Rogue vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.