EPT[Patch 5.18] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 23
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
The mana cost grows when leveling while hers remain low though, and you can't realistically expect to always be able to harass her while you last hit a minion with Q. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On September 28 2015 22:26 Alaric wrote: Your Q has 950 range (hers is 825) and you've got a lower cooldown (also she loses damage from passing through enemies so hiding behind the lane isn't too big of an issue), do you really lose that much if she shields a Q from time to time? The mana cost grows when leveling while hers remain low though, and you can't realistically expect to always be able to harass her while you last hit a minion with Q. The shield combined with bonus MR negates most of your damage so you can never really trade with her. Without good support from your jungle it's very hard to pose any sort of meaningful threat to her, she's more or less free to do whatever she wants. | ||
Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
On September 28 2015 21:55 Alaric wrote: How is Orianna that big of a problem for Veigar? Sure she can hide behind minions and manipulate the ball to make last hitting with aas harder for you, but she can't really zone you because of your Q's range (and it'd make her easy to gank). She's got a steroid with the ball though, but since it has a travel time if it isn't on her you should be able to unload before she can shield herself. I think you underestimate how strong Orianna is. She can pretty much walk up to a Veigar (pre-6) with Shield + AAs and out-trade him Veigar doesn't really have a good way to punish her unless he uses E+W but that costs a lot of mana | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Maybe I overestimate the 6 base AD nerf she ate awhile ago, but I feel like you can rarely win trades with the level 1 E+aa tactic. You take too much minion damage for it to b worth (and if you step aside the wave then I don't think you can self-cast E on reaction to his Q if you're in aa range so at worst he waits out the shield, but maybe that's just my reaction time being slow :/). | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On September 28 2015 23:54 nafta wrote: But then you remember teleport exists so its fine and as long as you don't lose too much you outscale mega hard. You dont really outscale an Orianna mega hard. Veigar lose alot more power than Orianna once stuff like Banshee, QSS, Locket and Mikael's comes online. On September 29 2015 00:15 Nos- wrote: speaking of which what are people's thoughts on the top+mid lane tps? we've seen competitive diana players taking tp mid as is, and veigar tp mid has been popping up in soloq as well. TP is IMO the strongest summoner spell if you can get away with it. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On September 29 2015 00:22 Jek wrote: You dont really outscale an Orianna mega hard. Veigar lose alot more power than Orianna once stuff like Banshee, QSS, Locket and Mikael's comes online. TP is IMO the strongest summoner spell if you can get away with it. i think it's significantly less good in mid lane and only worth taking if you expect to get bodied in lane but the matchup enables you to not need heal or barrier | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On September 29 2015 00:22 Jek wrote: You dont really outscale an Orianna mega hard. Veigar lose alot more power than Orianna once stuff like Banshee, QSS, Locket and Mikael's comes online. TP is IMO the strongest summoner spell if you can get away with it. veigar also has a lot more power in general so losing more doesn't mean he is weaker. You can outplay ori pretty hard with most champs while you can't really do the same vs veigar. Also forcing multiple items from all of their carries is a pretty fucking big deal. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On September 29 2015 00:52 nafta wrote: veigar also has a lot more power in general so losing more doesn't mean he is weaker. You can outplay ori pretty hard with most champs while you can't really do the same vs veigar. Also forcing multiple items from all of their carries is a pretty fucking big deal. I always think that when I play warwick but "making" people buy items honestly has little impact. Negating your champ in a major way > buying a slightly less desirable item without the stun/meteor on priority champs veigar honestly doesnt offer a lot in competitive play | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
I think it's kinda funny how his stun went from being considered utterly worthless to forcing multiple items from people just off everyone forgetting what that shit was like when it was instant. I think he'd be at a decent happy medium without the additional Q AP. The unfortunate thing for Veigar, once we see him in competitive (or rather, when we don't), is that QSS/Zhonya's is the default build and all you really do is force it half an item earlier. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On September 29 2015 00:52 nafta wrote: veigar also has a lot more power in general so losing more doesn't mean he is weaker. You can outplay ori pretty hard with most champs while you can't really do the same vs veigar. Also forcing multiple items from all of their carries is a pretty fucking big deal. Said items are more or less core in lategame regardless - sure they are more often than not forced earlier, which is a really huge advantage. Veigar shares, in my opinion, the same trait as Nasus hypescaling if left to do his thing but can be countered pretty hard by items/champions late. Veigar is very strong lategame, but not like a protected full build Kog'Maw that'll just murder death kill everyone. Might have misunderstood "outscale mega hard", made me think hyper carry vs early game champion levels of outscaling. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On September 29 2015 01:00 Caiada wrote: You only need one or to have cleanse up to win the fight. I think it's kinda funny how his stun went from being considered utterly worthless to forcing multiple items from people just off everyone forgetting what that shit was like when it was instant. I think he'd be at a decent happy medium without the additional Q AP. The unfortunate thing for Veigar, once we see him in competitive (or rather, when we don't), is that QSS/Zhonya's is the default build and all you really do is force it half an item earlier. This is assuming you are the team engaging in a good position. I used to think the same until I played a few games vs veigar. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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DarkCore
Germany4194 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On September 28 2015 22:26 Alaric wrote: Your Q has 950 range (hers is 825) and you've got a lower cooldown (also she loses damage from passing through enemies so hiding behind the lane isn't too big of an issue), do you really lose that much if she shields a Q from time to time? The mana cost grows when leveling while hers remain low though, and you can't realistically expect to always be able to harass her while you last hit a minion with Q. Ori's Q range is actually 1000. The ball has a radius of 175 so a max range Q hits enemies to 1000 range. You're well within her ball range if you can hit a Q. Plus ori can just auto attack you in lane for +10 and .15 AP to +14 and .21 AP. At level 1 three auto attacks from Ori do about as much bonus damage as your Q and since she has a shield which gives bonus MR its really hard for you to do anything. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
/edit or not ... | ||
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