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Korea (South)11232 Posts
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Can riot even expel the org from the LCS? What would the proper response even be?
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
Giants and MYM are the worst orgs in europe :<
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On February 09 2015 10:55 seRapH wrote: Can riot even expel the org from the LCS? What would the proper response even be?
I hope so, that's incredibly messed up. If they don't expel them they definitely need to take a heavy hand in making sure those players aren't being mistreated.
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Seriously, what the hell? This entire situation is super sketchy.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
MYM, even without Ange you're awful, holy moly.
On February 09 2015 11:00 Chexx wrote: Giants and MYM are the worst orgs in europe :<
Absolute Legends and Online Kingdom spirits are still lurking around.
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Fucking hell. And to think the whole point of SHC was to be your own org to make sure noone screws you.
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Good lord what a mess. Just a disgrace on every level by MYM.
Pay your damn players. Honor the contract you signed with them. It's not that hard. There are thousands of industries that manage to do that.
I bet that RIOT will quietly behind the scenes try to make this right.
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Did he sign a new contract with the same management that didnt pay him last year?
If its still the same contract, its obviously void. If not, MYM is still 100% dependent on Rito
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 09 2015 11:40 LaNague wrote: Did he sign a new contract with the same management that didnt pay him last year?
If its still the same contract, its obviously void. If not, MYM is still 100% dependent on Rito
How is it void, rofl. It's bought-out contract, it doesn't mean that everything which happened with this contract previously is washed and MYM has no obligations.
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On February 09 2015 12:05 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 11:40 LaNague wrote: Did he sign a new contract with the same management that didnt pay him last year?
If its still the same contract, its obviously void. If not, MYM is still 100% dependent on Rito How is it void, rofl. It's bought-out contract, it doesn't mean that everything which happened with this contract previously is washed and MYM has no obligations.
i meant void regarding his obligations obviously, as it wasnt honored.
rofl right back to your context sensitive reading.
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ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノMOVE YOUR MOTHERSヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
but yeah if you're familiar with anything MYM has done in the past from going bankrupt in 2009 to trying to withhold prize money in 2011 from their dota team you can't be surprised with this org
surprised Riot even let them through a background check
edit: also terribly worried for H0R0 because i can see him being taken advantage of in the same way because of the language barrier
User was warned for this post
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Well, this is going to end up a mess.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
This is some serious fucked up shit
MYM at it again
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
will be interesting to see what Riot will do
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MYM has a pretty checkered past as a gaming organization to begin with, not a good look.
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On February 09 2015 12:55 Chexx wrote: will be interesting to see what Riot will do
Indeed, I'm guessing they're pouring over contracts and talking to lawyers because I'm guessing there's some gap between what they want to do and what they can do.'
I'm betting they want to toss them out on their ass but that has far reaching consequences and could get them in legal trouble if they do it wrong.
If nothing else I feel like Riot's gonna make sure Kori lands on his feet, either by getting him a job or through Rioters donating to him privately.
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Hnggg, I can smell the fines already.
As much as people like to make fun of how strict Riot is, there's no other esports that have the same level of player protection, and backing as Riot has given so far to LoL.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
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On February 09 2015 15:56 739 wrote: What would Riot do? I'm pretty sure they won't do anything about it.
Also, I was a part of MYM Staff for a while. Trust me, the whole organisation is a one big joke, they should just disappear forever with that whole turkish kebab eater - Khaled Naim. At minimum they'd fine the shit out of MYM. Which is a fuckton more than anyone else would be willing to do.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
I hope they will but I have my reasons to believe that any action won't be taken.
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I just can't think of a reason why Riot wouldn't take action here. It'd be a huge stain on the league itself and the only people it'd be good for is the MYM organization. Riot would look bad, the players would get booed and given MYM's previous behavior might not get paid.
I imagine this becoming public is going to do some serious damage to them no matter what though. They'll be having some interesting conversations with sponsors.
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On February 09 2015 16:01 739 wrote: I hope they will but I have my reasons to believe that any action won't be taken. Why wouldn't they fine? Rito has fined for way less than this.
I hope Rito slaps such a fat fine, and MYM is unable to pay it, and Nick Allen excommunicates MYM's ass to the nether region.
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I hope Riot dont planning to fine CLG. We are usually the one who get fined.
poor Kori. btw Big Sorry
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Between not paying players and attempting assassinate tournaments with baseless claims I'm almost starting to get the impression that MYM may infact be a somewhat shady team.
I also think these absolute legends guys may be up to no good
Shoutout to kori for getting stuff recorded, clever boy that one
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On February 09 2015 16:26 Fusilero wrote: Between not paying players and attempting assassinate tournaments with baseless claims I'm almost starting to get the impression that MYM may infact be a somewhat shady team.
I also think these absolute legends guys may be up to no good
Shoutout to kori for getting stuff recorded, clever boy that one
LS (former coach of SHC, MYM, and current coach of Roar which selfie tried to join) said on stream that he told selfie to record it.
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I hope the guys will get picked up by an actual good organization, and get LS back as coach, maybe together with YamatoCannon.
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Western eSports strikes once again.
What will it take for people to take initiative and demand professionalism out of what people call "professional" gaming?
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Sad to read, if this is true MYM should be fined severely and baned from future events
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So, Falli is still around? This guy was always piece of shit. Now we just need Wetdream to comeback.
On February 09 2015 18:02 RaphaelSanzio wrote: Western eSports strikes once again.
What will it take for people to take initiative and demand professionalism out of what people call "professional" gaming? Yea, Korean/Chinese org are so much better.
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*hisses* I've held a bad impression of MYM as a brand/org from Dota.
I'm someone who honestly usually prefers the FFA hands-off approach when it comes the involvement of game publishers in their esports scene, but in this case action needs to be taken from a top-down approach -- MYM's previous very-much-less-than-stellar record from other games hasn't stopped them from exploiting players, there's no reason to believe that history won't repeat itself.
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This is pretty disgusting. Hopefully Riot can lay the smackdown on MYM.
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MYM, please go meet your makers.
Then give them a slap for not giving you proper CSR lessons.
Hope the players can find a suitable solution.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Krepo stream title "Watch my stream or your mom loses her house"
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RLewis really nailed this one. It irritates me that he's really the only guy doing actual journalism in the scene, because he's about as unprofessional as a journalist can be while still calling themselves a journalist, but the man gets results.
Also rumors that H2K and MYM might swap midlaners? https://www.facebook.com/H2kGaming.EU?fref=ts
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On February 10 2015 03:03 BrownBear wrote:RLewis really nailed this one. It irritates me that he's really the only guy doing actual journalism in the scene, because he's about as unprofessional as a journalist can be while still calling themselves a journalist, but the man gets results. Also rumors that H2K and MYM might swap midlaners? https://www.facebook.com/H2kGaming.EU?fref=ts Ryu and H0R0 in one team sounds reasonable.
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On February 10 2015 03:03 BrownBear wrote:RLewis really nailed this one. It irritates me that he's really the only guy doing actual journalism in the scene, because he's about as unprofessional as a journalist can be while still calling themselves a journalist, but the man gets results. Also rumors that H2K and MYM might swap midlaners? https://www.facebook.com/H2kGaming.EU?fref=ts As mentioned in the esportsheaven article I linked earlier, this was what Kori wanted all along.
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
Well who would join MYM volunteerly now?
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Maybe the team won't be MYM's for long ? I certainly hope so, despite the fact that it would make difficult for Riot to force them to pay what they owe to the players.
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They actually tweeted big sorry...
+ Show Spoiler +First off, we’d like to thank Richard Lewis and the Daily Dot for exposing a weakness in our management structure. Sometimes, we trust in the wrong people and we’re guilty of doing that more that we’d like.
Please know that the actions of the few involved do not represent the passionate hard-working team we have at MeetYourMakers. Upon hearing the news, we've spent time collecting the facts to investigate internally.
We wanted to share this, our immediate actions and follow up, with the entire community. This is to everyone that’s experienced the same emotional rollercoaster we have the last few days.
THE FACTS :
1. Sebastian ‘Falli’ Rotterdam, MYM’s General Manager did have a threatening conversation with Marcin ‘Kori’ Wolski upon discovering Kori’s desire to leave the team house prior to the start of the LCS. 2. Also present in the room was MYM’s e-sports manager, Damir ‘NestlieK’ Dedic 3. No other people were physically in the room when the recorded conversation occurred 4. This incident was not reported to the CEO, Khaled Naim.
IMMEDIATE ACTIONS :
1. Seabstian Falli Rotterdam. Falli has been immediately released from MYM. 2. Kori. We’re part of an open dialogue with Kori, ourselves and RIOT. We’ll always try to do what’s best for our players. Once a decision that Kori is happy with has been decided, we will let everyone know (or Daily Dot will!) 3. RIOT. RIOT are now deliberating over the unfolded events and will release their own formal statement soon 4. Damir. We’ve decided to retain Damir, our esports Manager. We want to see punishment served for the offenders not harm the victims. Upon discussions with the players, it became clear that Damir is not being blamed for what transpired. Like Kori, he felt threatened and pressured by a higher-up in the company who had later told him his job was at risk if Kori left the team.
FOLLOW UP :
1. We will host 1 on 1 sessions with our players and a neutral third party. The objective will be to understand any areas of improvement and identify any issues like this proactively. 2. We’ve always trusted our managers to do what’s best for the players and exercise discretion in their decision making. In this instance, our trust has been abused. Going forward, we will host regular bi-monthly chats with all players + management to keep updated on any ongoing concerns. Management will also need to ask for approval from the CEO for any decisions involving player changes so that ultimate responsibility lies with CEO Khaled. 3. We will wait for an official RIOT statement and accept that we will need to ensure going forward something of this magnitude never happens again 4. 4. Our staff are part of the community we all call home. We rely on our conversations with all of you. Journalists, redditors, players, managers. Please if you ever hear of something as fundamentally shocking as what has happened, drop us just a one line.
We didn’t want this to sound like a rehearsed PR statement.
As the CEO of MYM, I can only say that I truly apologize for my own choice of words in my communication. I would also like to extend a sincere apology to Richard Lewis and his team at Daily Dot- in the future we want to be part of the solution not cause issues for those doing great work for the community.
We owe a massive debt of gratitude to everyone who spend even a moment watching MYM including our hard working staff. To confirm, we are already working with Kori to figure out what he wants to do next.
Kori will soon make his own announcement which we feel shouldn’t come from us, as this has affected him so personally. We’ll support any statement he makes and stand-by him no matter what. He’s a big part of MYM and he’ll be treated as such.
TL:DR :
- General Manager Sebastian Falli’ Rotterdam fired - Esports Manager Damir stays on- players agreed - Kori to decide what his next steps are - CEO Khaled to have 1-to-1’s with players + staff alongside a netural third party to identify any existing issues - MYM wants to thank the community for their ongoing support and concern - MYM wants to thank Richard Lewis and the Daily Dot for making us aware of these issues. We want to acknowledge Richard’s and esport journalist’s role as essential for teams like us
Thank you all, Khaled Naim & the entire MYM
EDIT: They deleted the big sorry tweet.
https://twitter.com/myMYMcom/status/565197033594970112
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
You know what's the funniest thing?
2. Also present in the room was MYM’s e-sports manager, Damir ‘NestlieK’ Dedic
This NestliK guy. Who was a 'coach' for DotA2 ex-mouz and ex-MYM team with Ace, unicornxoxo, Cr1t etc. etc. when I was still part of it. Dude that has no freaking idea about managing a team and is well known racist (http://www.gosugamers.net/forums/topic/1029249-elpride-lions-pride-racist-flame/) and still a kid, this should explain what kind of people are in MYM organisation.
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as far as I am concerned the damage is already done, it will take a lot of time to repair their image...
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
MYM's countless previous fuck ups still didn't kill them. At this point the only way for them to be truly driven out is for them to actually move someone's mother.
Riot pls wave your heavy handed non-toxic punishments and just kill MYM, you'll be doing everyone a favour.
Lomo
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Well I'm not emotionally invested all that much so I mostly wonder what will happen to the rosters now.
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On February 11 2015 02:36 Fusilero wrote: MYM's countless previous fuck ups still didn't kill them. At this point the only way for them to be truly driven out is for them to actually move someone's mother.
Riot pls wave your heavy handed non-toxic punishments and just kill MYM, you'll be doing everyone a favour.
Yeah I also hope Riot kicks out MYM. I am just not sure if they are able to do so. It also might set an unwelcome precident and some will say Riot should not that much power, be accuser and judge at the same time etc.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 11 2015 03:41 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 02:36 Fusilero wrote: MYM's countless previous fuck ups still didn't kill them. At this point the only way for them to be truly driven out is for them to actually move someone's mother.
Riot pls wave your heavy handed non-toxic punishments and just kill MYM, you'll be doing everyone a favour.
Yeah I also hope Riot kicks out MYM. I am just not sure if they are able to do so. It also might set an unwelcome precident and some will say Riot should not that much power, be accuser and judge at the same time etc.
>> Changes in Ownership may only occur between Splits, meaning after the most recent Playoffs and Promotion Matches but before the start of the following Split.
It's just by quoting rule 3.1 from LCS Rule Set. So I don't think it's possible in current state, at least if Riot don't want to force precedent.
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On February 11 2015 02:36 Fusilero wrote:MYM's countless previous fuck ups still didn't kill them. At this point the only way for them to be truly driven out is for them to actually move someone's mother. Riot pls wave your heavy handed non-toxic punishments and just kill MYM, you'll be doing everyone a favour. https://twitter.com/RLewisReports/status/565206508225298432Lomo
they can have zero fans and still get Riot money, only Riot can kill them.
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The MYM statement is complete bs. Already that it starts with thanking RL says it all. It should start with apologizing to Kori. In fact the whole text does not contain a direct apology to Kori, but one to RL. What? Shows so much that they are not sorry for their behaviour but sorry to be caught.
I also want to point out that it was Kori who collected all the evidence. He then chose to publish this evidence via Dailydot and esportsexpress. I dont see how those are the big heros now, they barely did anything.
And then MYM only did the bare minimum with firing Falli. He was gone anyway. They really could not have done less, which again shows how insincere the whole thing is. Not that this is surprising with the type of people assembled at MYM. It is one lot with one similar mindset that simply needs to go. That they hired YamatoCannon as coach also fits right in there.
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On February 11 2015 03:54 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 03:41 Redox wrote:On February 11 2015 02:36 Fusilero wrote: MYM's countless previous fuck ups still didn't kill them. At this point the only way for them to be truly driven out is for them to actually move someone's mother.
Riot pls wave your heavy handed non-toxic punishments and just kill MYM, you'll be doing everyone a favour.
Yeah I also hope Riot kicks out MYM. I am just not sure if they are able to do so. It also might set an unwelcome precident and some will say Riot should not that much power, be accuser and judge at the same time etc. >> Changes in Ownership may only occur between Splits, meaning after the most recent Playoffs and Promotion Matches but before the start of the following Split. It's just by quoting rule 3.1 from LCS Rule Set. So I don't think it's possible in current state, at least if Riot don't want to force precedent. They could fine them so much it's financially infeasible for mym to continue playing in lcs.
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riot should say big sorry to move your mothers and revoke their LCS license
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 11 2015 08:10 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 03:54 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 11 2015 03:41 Redox wrote:On February 11 2015 02:36 Fusilero wrote: MYM's countless previous fuck ups still didn't kill them. At this point the only way for them to be truly driven out is for them to actually move someone's mother.
Riot pls wave your heavy handed non-toxic punishments and just kill MYM, you'll be doing everyone a favour.
Yeah I also hope Riot kicks out MYM. I am just not sure if they are able to do so. It also might set an unwelcome precident and some will say Riot should not that much power, be accuser and judge at the same time etc. >> Changes in Ownership may only occur between Splits, meaning after the most recent Playoffs and Promotion Matches but before the start of the following Split. It's just by quoting rule 3.1 from LCS Rule Set. So I don't think it's possible in current state, at least if Riot don't want to force precedent. They could fine them so much it's financially infeasible for mym to continue playing in lcs.
And again, it's called as "setting up unfavourable precedent".
We don't have respectable orgs in general in EU league right now outside of Fnatic/SK, other are basically nonames or MYM level orgs. Alex Garfield can't have his brands in LCS, NiP don't want to League anymore after all those collapses, mTw is dead in the waters, CIS orgs don't want to LCS as well, neither does Acer and Team Liquid is in NA.
Unless Riot are going to continue this trend and basically force people to create specific organisations for LCS, we're going to have it here. It's not like they have license either, people forget that team owns spot in LCS, not players, so if you drop the team, players are going to get dropped as well, unless they change rules drastically.
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The problem with simply removing MYM from the LCS is that you're then in turn hurting the players, as well as the organization. You really can't separate hurting the organization from hurting the players. Any fines or restrictions are going to impact the players I'm sure. MYM having trouble paying its players? I doubt fining them will help with that. Unless Riot wants to remove MYM's sponsorship of the team, and pay for the team's expenses with the money they used to fund MYM, there's no way that the players will benefit from Riot action against MYM. If they do give the money to the players directly, there's no real promise that their next manager won't be as corrupt as their last manager. This is a problem when you mix naive young adults with experienced con artists/thugs.
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http://na.lolesports.com/articles/investigation-marcin-“kori”-wolski-and-meetyourmakers
+ Show Spoiler +Immediately prior to the start of the 2015 LCS season, we were informed that Marcin “Kori” Wolski had decided to leave MeetYourMakers (MYM). LCS officials accepted it was an emergency situation and the team was allowed to use a substitute for the upcoming games in Wolski’s absence. Subsequent facts have come to light which exhibit significant mismanagement and unprofessional behavior from a senior member of MYM’s management team. In this kind of complex case, full investigation of the facts takes time to complete, but after review we wanted to give insight into our internal investigation and next steps.
Although teams and players are ultimately responsible for navigating their own contractual relationships, we will do everything in our power to discourage and work against unacceptable environments involving our teams and players. We have zero tolerance for intimidation of players within an LCS organization.
On January 23, 2015 Wolski reached out to LCS officials stating that he had been threatened by MYM management. He also informed LCS officials that he had a recording of the conversation. We took this matter very seriously and continued our open investigation into the mistreatment of the player, although given legal concerns regarding the recording which was obtained without all parties’ knowledge, we did not request or use it to inform our ongoing investigation. The severity of the situation has since emerged through the recording being made public by Wolski, showing that he and his immediate family were threatened with legal action by MYM manager Sebastian Rotterdam.
Our investigation found fault on behalf of both player and management. Despite Wolski’s claims that payments had been withheld, we found the only missing payments stemmed from the Supa Hot Crew (SHC) organisation, of which Wolski was a player in the 2014 season. As we understand it, the failure to receive payments from SHC arose due to Wolski's own failure to provide requested tax documentation, and this problem can be resolved once Wolski produces these documents. As a separate organization, MYM has provided us with documentation verifying that they have not withheld any payment from its players. As such, it appeared that by leaving the team ahead of the beginning of the spring split Wolski was breaking an active contract and commitment to MYM.
It is not our intention to create a precedent that discourages teams from discussing legal issues or informing players of their liabilities should they seek to disavow an existing contract, as in Wolski’s case. In fact, teams and players should have these conversations and negotiations independently and with full context and knowledge of the legal commitments and restrictions. What we also believe, however, is that teams have a moral commitment to treat players - who are often inexperienced and vulnerable - with dignity and respect. Rotterdam’s actions in conversation with Wolski when addressing this contract break were both unprofessional and unjustifiable.
As confirmed by the team earlier today, MYM, of its own accord, has taken action against Rotterdam and fired him from his position as team manager. Rotterdam will also be indefinitely suspended by Riot from competing within the LCS as a manager or any other team position.
An entire LCS organization shoulders the responsibility for the behavior of their team members and ensuring their players have a safe and professional environment. MYM will be held accountable for Rotterdam’s actions towards Wolski and for failing to protect their team members from his unacceptable and bullying behavior. As such, Riot will be issuing MYM with a fine of €5,000 for unprofessional behaviour.
We know this fine may not satisfy those hoping for a harsher punishment for MYM, but there’s some important context as to how we reached this amount. In deciding the severity of the fine we took several factors into account. Primarily, we considered the fact that Rotterdam’s actions - and MYM’s failure to protect players from them - created an unprofessional work environment for the team. We also took into account the fact that MYM acted decisively to remove Rotterdam from the organization once the full facts of his behavior had come to light. Lastly, although it in no way justifies threats or intimidation, we also considered when deciding on a punishment the fact that Wolski appeared to break a commitment to a team, which put not only his career but those of his teammates in jeopardy.
We’re aware that questions have been raised as to whether MYM should be stripped of their LCS slot. After concluding our investigation, we feel that MYM has taken significant steps to remove toxic influence from within their organization and is prepared to move forward in the best interests of their players and their competitive careers. We believe that forfeiting the slot would unnecessarily penalize players and interrupt their pro careers through no fault of their own. Even though MYM has acted swiftly to correct this issue, any further violations can and will put them on a path to suspension from the LCS.
We appreciate the strength of community sentiment against any influence that would threaten or otherwise challenge the safety and security of pro teams and players. For Riot, cases like this tread a difficult balance between relying on the contractual relationships negotiated between teams and players to appropriately guide their behavior, and using our influence to try and ensure a professional, and ethical environment for those parties operating within the LCS ecosystem. Where we feel strongly that unprofessionalism is putting player security at risk, we can and will use our influence to try to ensure that the LCS pro experience is a positive one. RELEVANT RULES
10.2.10 Moral Turpitude
A Team Member may not engage in any activity which is deemed by the LCS to be immoral, disgraceful, or contrary to conventional standards of proper ethical behavior. RULING
MYM has violated rule 10.2.10 of the LCS ruleset and will be subject to penalties. COMPETITION PENALTIES
MYM is:
Fined €5000
Sebastian Rotterdam is:
Banned indefinitely from competing within the LCS as a manager or any other team position
They seem to be ignoring all of the previous reporting that implicated the CEO in the situation. It doesn't look like this is going to be the end of this.
CLG is regretting poaching Scarra now, should have just threatened Dig instead.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
5.000 euros and Rotterdam banned, rofl, what a joke.
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On February 12 2015 17:12 Ansibled wrote:http://na.lolesports.com/articles/investigation-marcin-“kori”-wolski-and-meetyourmakers+ Show Spoiler +Immediately prior to the start of the 2015 LCS season, we were informed that Marcin “Kori” Wolski had decided to leave MeetYourMakers (MYM). LCS officials accepted it was an emergency situation and the team was allowed to use a substitute for the upcoming games in Wolski’s absence. Subsequent facts have come to light which exhibit significant mismanagement and unprofessional behavior from a senior member of MYM’s management team. In this kind of complex case, full investigation of the facts takes time to complete, but after review we wanted to give insight into our internal investigation and next steps.
Although teams and players are ultimately responsible for navigating their own contractual relationships, we will do everything in our power to discourage and work against unacceptable environments involving our teams and players. We have zero tolerance for intimidation of players within an LCS organization.
On January 23, 2015 Wolski reached out to LCS officials stating that he had been threatened by MYM management. He also informed LCS officials that he had a recording of the conversation. We took this matter very seriously and continued our open investigation into the mistreatment of the player, although given legal concerns regarding the recording which was obtained without all parties’ knowledge, we did not request or use it to inform our ongoing investigation. The severity of the situation has since emerged through the recording being made public by Wolski, showing that he and his immediate family were threatened with legal action by MYM manager Sebastian Rotterdam.
Our investigation found fault on behalf of both player and management. Despite Wolski’s claims that payments had been withheld, we found the only missing payments stemmed from the Supa Hot Crew (SHC) organisation, of which Wolski was a player in the 2014 season. As we understand it, the failure to receive payments from SHC arose due to Wolski's own failure to provide requested tax documentation, and this problem can be resolved once Wolski produces these documents. As a separate organization, MYM has provided us with documentation verifying that they have not withheld any payment from its players. As such, it appeared that by leaving the team ahead of the beginning of the spring split Wolski was breaking an active contract and commitment to MYM.
It is not our intention to create a precedent that discourages teams from discussing legal issues or informing players of their liabilities should they seek to disavow an existing contract, as in Wolski’s case. In fact, teams and players should have these conversations and negotiations independently and with full context and knowledge of the legal commitments and restrictions. What we also believe, however, is that teams have a moral commitment to treat players - who are often inexperienced and vulnerable - with dignity and respect. Rotterdam’s actions in conversation with Wolski when addressing this contract break were both unprofessional and unjustifiable.
As confirmed by the team earlier today, MYM, of its own accord, has taken action against Rotterdam and fired him from his position as team manager. Rotterdam will also be indefinitely suspended by Riot from competing within the LCS as a manager or any other team position.
An entire LCS organization shoulders the responsibility for the behavior of their team members and ensuring their players have a safe and professional environment. MYM will be held accountable for Rotterdam’s actions towards Wolski and for failing to protect their team members from his unacceptable and bullying behavior. As such, Riot will be issuing MYM with a fine of €5,000 for unprofessional behaviour.
We know this fine may not satisfy those hoping for a harsher punishment for MYM, but there’s some important context as to how we reached this amount. In deciding the severity of the fine we took several factors into account. Primarily, we considered the fact that Rotterdam’s actions - and MYM’s failure to protect players from them - created an unprofessional work environment for the team. We also took into account the fact that MYM acted decisively to remove Rotterdam from the organization once the full facts of his behavior had come to light. Lastly, although it in no way justifies threats or intimidation, we also considered when deciding on a punishment the fact that Wolski appeared to break a commitment to a team, which put not only his career but those of his teammates in jeopardy.
We’re aware that questions have been raised as to whether MYM should be stripped of their LCS slot. After concluding our investigation, we feel that MYM has taken significant steps to remove toxic influence from within their organization and is prepared to move forward in the best interests of their players and their competitive careers. We believe that forfeiting the slot would unnecessarily penalize players and interrupt their pro careers through no fault of their own. Even though MYM has acted swiftly to correct this issue, any further violations can and will put them on a path to suspension from the LCS.
We appreciate the strength of community sentiment against any influence that would threaten or otherwise challenge the safety and security of pro teams and players. For Riot, cases like this tread a difficult balance between relying on the contractual relationships negotiated between teams and players to appropriately guide their behavior, and using our influence to try and ensure a professional, and ethical environment for those parties operating within the LCS ecosystem. Where we feel strongly that unprofessionalism is putting player security at risk, we can and will use our influence to try to ensure that the LCS pro experience is a positive one. RELEVANT RULES
10.2.10 Moral Turpitude
A Team Member may not engage in any activity which is deemed by the LCS to be immoral, disgraceful, or contrary to conventional standards of proper ethical behavior. RULING
MYM has violated rule 10.2.10 of the LCS ruleset and will be subject to penalties. COMPETITION PENALTIES
MYM is:
Fined €5000
Sebastian Rotterdam is:
Banned indefinitely from competing within the LCS as a manager or any other team position
They seem to be ignoring all of the previous reporting that implemented the CEO in the situation. It doesn't look like this is going to be the end of this. CLG is regretting poaching Scarra now, should have just threatened Dig instead.
In the chat logs, the MYM CEO mentioned how bad it looked for Kori, a big fine, and how he had worked out a PR strategy with RIOT- When I read that, it was my impression (along with several others), that it seemed like MYM just wanted to cover up its own flaws. However, they had in fact paid wages to Kori, so besides the house-comment, MYM hadn't actually crossed any lines (imo). Also, Riot also didn't comment on the PR-strategy, which indicates that the CEO did indeed talk to Riot.
Regarding the house-comment, think about this: If you were Rotterdam and had threatened to take his mothers house in order to get Kori back, would you then go to the CEO and tell him about the exact conversation? Or would you rather say something like "I convinced him to get back by remindering him that he had written a contract and there will be consequences if he broke it". The latter seems morally acceptable to me, and I think it's much more likely that's what actually occured inside the MYM-organization.
If anything, this just seems like a classical witchhunt where the public want this organization to be evil even if there is no evidence behind it.
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I mean, the chat logs with MYMs CEO show him lying to Kori but I'm sure he's completely innocent and it was all this one manager who was the sole problem with MYM.
According to Riot, they had no involvement with fines.
Any fine levied by the team against Kori is solely at the discretion of the team. Riot had no involvement in this as it is a team/player issue tied to the player's contract and caused by the player not being available to play in their LCS matches at the start of the season. And yet
[1/30/2015 3:21:15 PM] Khaled Naim: but your fine will be high
[1/30/2015 3:21:24 PM] Khaled Naim: this is what I have discussed with Riot too
[1/30/2015 3:21:27 PM] Khaled Naim: AND
[1/30/2015 3:21:37 PM] Khaled Naim: we will find a pr strategy together with riot
[1/30/2015 3:21:45 PM] Khaled Naim: to make some statements about you and mym and what happened]
What about the part where he told Kori he couldn't play in Challenger even though it seems like he would have been able to?
[1/30/2015 3:08:35 PM] Khaled Naim: “We would have prevented him from playing LCS or CS while he had the MYM contract though"
However, Roar’s CEO, Eric Wong, spoke with someone at Riot Games, about a week earlier, and Wolski playing for the team in the Challenger Qualifiers was not a breach of contract with Riot nor MeetYourMakers. It turns out that what was said to Wolski by Khaled was a lie and Wolski could have played with Roar, but only in the Challenger Series. :^)
Also weren't there issues with other members of SHC not getting paid, not just Kori? It seems unlikely that after chasing payments for months the problem would still be a tax form.
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huh. I'm biased af because of bad impression of MYM (as an org) from their involvement in other games (DotA1) so reading Riot's statements it feels like Riot is being awfully considerate towards MYM.
In my mind it's like: MYM is actively working with Riot, vice versa, helping each other paint as beautiful a pic as they can with the incoming shitstorm. And then there's Kori. okay.
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[1/30/2015 3:21:15 PM] Khaled Naim: but your fine will be high
[1/30/2015 3:21:24 PM] Khaled Naim: this is what I have discussed with Riot too
[1/30/2015 3:21:27 PM] Khaled Naim: AND
[1/30/2015 3:21:37 PM] Khaled Naim: we will find a pr strategy together with riot
[1/30/2015 3:21:45 PM] Khaled Naim: to make some statements about you and mym and what happened]
I am not actually sure Khaled meant he had talked to Riot about giving Kori a high fine. Rather, I think it's more likely that he meant something like this: "This is what I have discussed with Riot: We will find a PR strategy together" or "and this is what I have talked to Riot about..." When you write skype logs quite quickly, sometimes you mess up the structure of the sentences, and I think this is kinda what has occured here, as it doesn't make alot of sense for why he would need Riot's validility to give him a big fine. Kori did breach his contract and it had severe contracts for the organizaiton, and therefore MYM could legally and morally fine him.
[1/30/2015 3:08:35 PM] Khaled Naim: “We would have prevented him from playing LCS or CS while he had the MYM contract though
I can fully understand why he wanted to prevent him from doing that, but this is a case where it seems as if Khaled wasn't aware of the rules. Looking isolated at the comment, I don't see anything fineable about it - as long as he was in "good" faith while writing it (if there are reasons to believe he knew what he wrote wasn't true, it should be fineable ofc).
It would also be fineable if he succesfully had prevented him from playing challenger-series (even if he was in good faith - his comment on the other hand merely presents a hypothetical scenario). Or if he had used the Riot-reference here (something like: I talked to Riot and we want to ban you from playing in challenger or LCS).
Also weren't there issues with other members of SHC not getting paid, not just Kori? It seems unlikely that after chasing payments for months the problem would still be a tax form.
I think all players have been paid, but LS wasn't paid for a period (according to him). If I was Riot, I would definitely also investigate that matter, but I think this should be handled seperately. Regardless, I don't disagree that MYM seems somewhat shady, but in this case specifically the witchhunt seems to be overblown as I don't think MYM CEO knew about house-comment, they had paid wages, and they had apparently talked to Riot about PR comment.
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Well as long as he's not only a liar but grossly incompetent too then, that's definitely better.
You don't see how there is a motivation to use Riot's involvement as leverage over Kori?
The point isn't about what's fineable or not, it's about the CEO and the organisation being every bit as bad as the manager they fired.
He was quoting Riot in that last section.
[1/30/2015 3:07:32 PM] Khaled Naim: Did you come back to us, because Riot wouldnt allow you to play LCS or CS neither EU or NA?
[1/30/2015 3:07:46 PM] chuyou: afaik riot will allow me to play
[1/30/2015 3:07:52 PM] chuyou: but i came to you
[1/30/2015 3:07:57 PM] chuyou: beacouse i wanted to go back to you
[1/30/2015 3:08:13 PM] Khaled Naim: Good answer
[1/30/2015 3:08:17 PM] Khaled Naim: Thanks for that
[1/30/2015 3:08:19 PM] chuyou: np
[1/30/2015 3:08:21 PM | Edited 3:08:23 PM] Khaled Naim: you think riot would let you play?
[1/30/2015 3:08:30 PM] chuyou: yea
[1/30/2015 3:08:35 PM] Khaled Naim: “We would have prevented him from playing LCS or CS while he had the MYM contract though we strongly believe that contracts need to be followed and yours was one of the better esports contracts I've seen”
[1/30/2015 3:08:51 PM] Khaled Naim: So you were not allowed to play for other teams unimportant where in LCS or CS.
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He was quoting Riot in that last section.
[1/30/2015 3:07:32 PM] Khaled Naim: Did you come back to us, because Riot wouldnt allow you to play LCS or CS neither EU or NA?
[1/30/2015 3:07:46 PM] chuyou: afaik riot will allow me to play
[1/30/2015 3:07:52 PM] chuyou: but i came to you
[1/30/2015 3:07:57 PM] chuyou: beacouse i wanted to go back to you
[1/30/2015 3:08:13 PM] Khaled Naim: Good answer
[1/30/2015 3:08:17 PM] Khaled Naim: Thanks for that
[1/30/2015 3:08:19 PM] chuyou: np
[1/30/2015 3:08:21 PM | Edited 3:08:23 PM] Khaled Naim: you think riot would let you play?
[1/30/2015 3:08:30 PM] chuyou: yea
[1/30/2015 3:08:35 PM] Khaled Naim: “We would have prevented him from playing LCS or CS while he had the MYM contract though we strongly believe that contracts need to be followed and yours was one of the better esports contracts I've seen”
[1/30/2015 3:08:51 PM] Khaled Naim: So you were not allowed to play for other teams unimportant where in LCS or CS.
Can you link me to some sources that makes it apparent that he isn't quoting Riot? If you look at that comment you see that Kori already had decided to go back to MYM, so there was no reason to make up a lie at that point in time (he didn't gain anything from it). Ofc that doesn't make it impossible, but combined with Riot not commenting on it, it seems less likely.
You don't see how there is a motivation to use Riot's involvement as leverage over Kori? I think it's more likely you need leverage when your case isn't good. In this scenario, MYM had all the rights to fine him, especially since Riot says
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Well the ESH article I quoted earlier is a source that Riot said a different thing, though it is of course possible that Riot give out two contradictory pieces of information at the same time.
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I think I may skip EU LCS this week. I understand that they don't have enough evidence to do more but it feels really light to me.
I am going to be curious how the audience treats MYM this week.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 12 2015 23:56 ripvlcn7 wrote: I think I may skip EU LCS this week. I understand that they don't have enough evidence to do more but it feels really light to me.
I am going to be curious how the audience treats MYM this week.
There are players, are they going to boo them like Danish audience boo'd Russian girls on Eurovision? Not sure that it's going to happen, probably Selfie is going to get ovation, that's kinda it.
And I hope, that's going to be it, actual games shouldn't be mixed with behind the scenes stuff.
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The second tweet is news to me. At what point in time was the threat of physical violence made known to the public? I saw very little about although I think (if true) that should be huge news.
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On February 11 2015 02:20 739 wrote: You know what's the funniest thing?
2. Also present in the room was MYM’s e-sports manager, Damir ‘NestlieK’ Dedic
This NestliK guy. Who was a 'coach' for DotA2 ex-mouz and ex-MYM team with Ace, unicornxoxo, Cr1t etc. etc. when I was still part of it. Dude that has no freaking idea about managing a team and is well known racist (http://www.gosugamers.net/forums/topic/1029249-elpride-lions-pride-racist-flame/) and still a kid, this should explain what kind of people are in MYM organisation. I think its kinda ironic that you are the one who call him racist. No doubt they took you into their organization.
bad move from Riot, they should revoke MYM's LCS license.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 13 2015 00:53 Mensol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2015 02:20 739 wrote: You know what's the funniest thing?
2. Also present in the room was MYM’s e-sports manager, Damir ‘NestlieK’ Dedic
This NestliK guy. Who was a 'coach' for DotA2 ex-mouz and ex-MYM team with Ace, unicornxoxo, Cr1t etc. etc. when I was still part of it. Dude that has no freaking idea about managing a team and is well known racist (http://www.gosugamers.net/forums/topic/1029249-elpride-lions-pride-racist-flame/) and still a kid, this should explain what kind of people are in MYM organisation. I think its kinda ironic that you are the one who call him racist. No doubt they took you into their organization. bad move from Riot, they should revoke MYM's LCS license.
And then people are going to ask Riot to revoke more teams licenses after any fuckup.
- Poached? Revoke! - Hadn't paused? Revoke, that's simply unsportsmanlike! - Wait, this fucker doesn't have suit? RE-VO-KE.
This punishment might look hilarious on paper, considering that CLG got fined more for just random speaking, but they can't revoke license, that's just not how it's supposed to be.
Unless you're Yuji Ide, it shouldn't happen.
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On February 13 2015 01:07 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 00:53 Mensol wrote:On February 11 2015 02:20 739 wrote: You know what's the funniest thing?
2. Also present in the room was MYM’s e-sports manager, Damir ‘NestlieK’ Dedic
This NestliK guy. Who was a 'coach' for DotA2 ex-mouz and ex-MYM team with Ace, unicornxoxo, Cr1t etc. etc. when I was still part of it. Dude that has no freaking idea about managing a team and is well known racist (http://www.gosugamers.net/forums/topic/1029249-elpride-lions-pride-racist-flame/) and still a kid, this should explain what kind of people are in MYM organisation. I think its kinda ironic that you are the one who call him racist. No doubt they took you into their organization. bad move from Riot, they should revoke MYM's LCS license. And then people are going to ask Riot to revoke more teams licenses after any fuckup. - Poached? Revoke! - Hadn't paused? Revoke, that's simply unsportsmanlike! - Wait, this fucker doesn't have suit? RE-VO-KE. This punishment might look hilarious on paper, considering that CLG got fined more for just random speaking, but they can't revoke license, that's just not how it's supposed to be. Unless you're Yuji Ide, it shouldn't happen. Well in that statement Riot said that they can and will revoke a license if there are more transgressions.
Personalyl I am disappointed by the ruling, although I understand that kicking out a team is problematic and might be too much. At least I would have liked to see some sanctions against this Khaled guy.
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On February 13 2015 00:52 Loerreslord wrote:The second tweet is news to me. At what point in time was the threat of physical violence made known to the public? I saw very little about although I think (if true) that should be huge news.
Yeah I don't think there's been a report about it but the tweet is from the person who wrote the ESH story so you'd think they'd have access to that kind of information. Very disturbing if true.
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On February 13 2015 04:49 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2015 00:52 Loerreslord wrote:The second tweet is news to me. At what point in time was the threat of physical violence made known to the public? I saw very little about although I think (if true) that should be huge news. Yeah I don't think there's been a report about it but the tweet is from the person who wrote the ESH story so you'd think they'd have access to that kind of information. Very disturbing if true.
It puts a different spin on the story but I don't see why this hasn't been made public earlier. While the threat about the house was over the top and frankly disgusting, in a legal sense Kori actually owed MYM something (as it was seemingly his fault he didn't get paid, which in turn led to the hold-out) threatening physical violence should have a lot more serious ramifications.
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On February 12 2015 18:20 ShootAnonymous wrote: huh. I'm biased af because of bad impression of MYM (as an org) from their involvement in other games (DotA1) so reading Riot's statements it feels like Riot is being awfully considerate towards MYM.
Also WC3. MYM is an organization with an incredibly shady past to a lot of people that have been following various games for a long time now. I have a very difficult time offering them any benefit of the doubt and removing bias from my opinions when it comes to judging them.
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I should feel bad for wanting this but I want to hear the recording about a guy wanting to break Kori's neck. If it exists or not is a HUGE deal. HUGE.
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I just want to point out that while MYM is only very,very likely an asshole in this whole mess, Kori is DEFINITELY in the wrong. Trying to get out out the team the day before LCS starts in order to play for another team is just being an inconsiderate jackass no matter what the situation is. If you don't want to play for the team, leave earlier.
Even for all of you guys that believes MYM is like some evil empire, remember that Kori screwed over all of his teammates too.
Edit: Well, unless his teammates were totally okay with it.
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