EPTReal class act, that one.
[Patch 4.18] Sion Reborn General Discussion - Page 147
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Celial
2602 Posts
Real class act, that one. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
I feel TL's opinion of him is relatively set in stone on this one. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
He comes up for some reason every now and again. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
also fuck last shadow that slimy piece of trash | ||
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lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
 Also Ghandi, pretty sure TL is also the only community(in reality its like 10-15 ppl actually who just post about stuff over and over) who still has negative view of me, hmm wonder why that is... lol Also shallow[bay]'s irony in attacking me on a personal level whilst advocating for sAvior in his own sig lol. I don't need to say more. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
On November 04 2014 15:36 lastshadow wrote: You get essentially robbed of several thousand dollars and slandered/lied/have your life+job threatened and see how you'd react Celial Also Ghandi, pretty sure TL is also the only community(in reality its like 10-15 ppl actually who just post about stuff over and over) who still has negative view of me, hmm wonder why that is... lol Also shallow[bay]'s irony in attacking me on a personal level whilst advocating for sAvior in his own sig lol. I don't need to say more. You're fighting immaturity with immaturity. I dont agree with with Ocelete has done to you but your approach on this is just as ugly(leaking scrims, strats, tendencies, etc.) | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On November 04 2014 15:36 lastshadow wrote: You get essentially robbed of several thousand dollars and slandered/lied/have your life+job threatened and see how you'd react Celial Details don't EXACTLY line up, but you answer your part about why TL has numerous people who look at you very unfavorably right here. Took money, lied, slandered people, made ridiculous threats? All Check. | ||
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lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
Chat logs w/ kasing below for people who doubt or w/e + Show Spoiler + [2014-10-30 오전 7:07:45] Nick: i have like [2014-10-30 오전 7:07:48 | Edited 오전 7:09:07] Nick: 12hrs of audio/video files [2014-10-30 오전 7:07:50] Nick: of their shotcalling [2014-10-30 오전 7:07:56] Nick: their most hated lanes/what they hate the most [2014-10-30 오전 7:07:59] Nick: their habit warding [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:02] Nick: how they shotcall [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:04] Nick: how they play [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:07] Nick: how they plan their p&b [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:12] Nick: its habits that i doubt they fixed [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:15] Nick: gonna offer to give all the vods [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:17] Nick: to every team [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:18] Nick: that plays them [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:20] Nick: and work for cheap [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:29] Nick: cause fuck ocelote for owing me over $2000 [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:46] Nick: then he tells lies [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:49] Nick: that he paid me [2014-10-30 오전 7:08:50] Nick: LOL [2014-10-30 오전 7:09:28] Nick: like sure they could change some stuff, but im very doubtful they change a lot of their habits / their despised champs/weakneeses in just 2months [2014-10-30 오전 7:09:51] Nick: but then again maybe i wont even do this cuz in reality im not like homeless or any shit over it [2014-10-30 오전 7:09:55] Nick: and it would only be making me an asshole [2014-10-30 오전 7:10:03] Nick: but i dont want to see him do well [2014-10-30 오전 7:10:08] Raymond "kaSing" Tsang: xD [2014-10-30 오전 7:10:11] Raymond "kaSing" Tsang: fuck It's been three months and he blocked/avoided all contact, even after the dailydot post, I don't know really what else to do, and with worlds having been going on I didn't get anything from Riot on the matter. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On November 04 2014 15:36 lastshadow wrote: Also shallow[bay]'s irony in attacking me on a personal level whilst advocating for sAvior in his own sig lol. I don't need to say more. dude never rigged maps to win starleagues brah | ||
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lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
On November 04 2014 15:48 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: dude never rigged maps to win starleagues brah Nah you're right, he just rigged games for money in competitive matches, with others pro-lives at stake. I rigged maps in customs, years ago, against people whom are now my best friends, brah. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
It's more that every time we talk about you here you somehow appear. It's like TotalBiscuit. And then a few people get impassioned, and frankly the argument has been done a thousand times so I'm not really excited to have it back again x.x | ||
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lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
Thanks though, and I'm sorry if things I say/do sometimes are cringe for you lol. And yeah I would totally actually post here more and would like to help out this subreddit's discussions, but I try to stay away cause, like you said, sometimes its an endless cycle of the same few people never letting something die. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On November 04 2014 15:55 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Eh LS I'm pretty ambivalent on you, I wasn't around for that Starleague BS and people change anyways, who cares It's more that every time we talk about you here you somehow appear. It's like TotalBiscuit. And then a few people get impassioned, and frankly the argument has been done a thousand times so I'm not really excited to have it back again x.x Maybe if we say TotalBiscuit frequently enough we will summon him and have one giant shitstorm of a discussion would be glorious | ||
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Celial
2602 Posts
On November 04 2014 15:59 lastshadow wrote: No it's okay man, I know sometimes I still act really childish/stupid, some of it my immaturity in a lot of respects, others when I get really really low. I really appreciate comments like yours to be honest, they seem really level headed and even if you dislike me or whatever, you seem to do so for your own reasons, rather than what appears as blind hate or something. Thanks though, and I'm sorry if things I say/do sometimes are cringe for you lol. And yeah I would totally actually post here more and would like to help out this subreddit's discussions, but I try to stay away cause, like you said, sometimes its an endless cycle of the same few people never letting something die. Dude you know I really don't like you. But let's be serious here for a moment. All the shit you have done in the past was really small scale and mostly restricted to TL.net (hence why you have a few haters on here and a lot of people who dont want to see you). This shit though? You claim to be a smart kid. What you just did is plant a seed of doubt in EVERYBODIES mind regarding your trustworthiness. Oh and there is that obvious "childish revenge" thing going on. While people on reddit (would probably literally) suck your dick, the guys who actually run the business and have to think like businessmen will have to think really long and really hard to ever work with you. You landed SHC, good job. They are a bunch of impressionable kids who do not have a real manager. For reference: "real" in any context (be it manager, coach, etc) refers to people with real training and leadership experience. Do you think a team like EG, SK, NiP - who have all been around forever and are run like legitimate businesses - would even think about hiring you after this? Or any "real" gaming business? You just demonstrated a character trait that is amongst the most hated/avoided: Pettyness. Also, a lack of emotional control - especially after all this time has passed. This time is different boy. You didn't scam some brighteyed fans out of a few dollars for coaching. You broke the social covenant in the league community. No one can/should ever trust you again. Edit: Also from what I remember, you got paid atleast some amount of money. So the issue is not that a contract didn't happen, but that you didn't get paid in full. I'm not familiar with US contract law (you still have that citizenship, right?), but in most countries in Europe that doesn't void the contract. It opens up legal avenues to pursue, but contracts are rarely ever declared void. Contracts are binding, even if one side decides to break some terms, YOU are still bound. Sue ocelote then, if it's that important to you. Or whine at Redbeard, dude should get a hardon just thinking about fining oce. Edit 2: Just because the public opinion is in your favor, doesn't mean you're right. Especially on reddit (and everywhere else too, generally) people have not the slightest idea how the world really works. What you can and cannot do. Especially legal. You should have leveraged the info and your public image properly (politically). Not this petty temper tantrum shit. All you did is lose all influence/power with the decision makers. Hope you can survive on streaming/online fame. Atleast for the next few years, and atleast not on League, no proper company is going to hire you. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
On November 04 2014 16:21 Scip wrote: Maybe if we say TotalBiscuit frequently enough we will summon him and have one giant shitstorm of a discussion would be glorious Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice. | ||
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lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
As for the SHC thing, the majority of SHC who worked with me (not just the "kids" (only rallez/selfie were young) all had nothing but good stuff to say about me, including rallez/selfie (who came to my aid in this ocelote scenario). At this time you'd be surprised (or you could check some of the people who tweeted at me in the past two months, or even todays tweet) the organizations who ask me for temp-work or help. Two of the fore-runners for the EU expansion tour already have taken up this offer for help, because again they know they're not going to deceive/cheat me out of money, but also I won't work ever again for a major team/org without a contract upfront. I know where you're coming from though, and I understand myself, I actually do (the chat-logs with KaSing I posted here) but I'm left with no where to turn, and this is thousands of dollars, not like $50. I wouldn't say it is a lack of emotional control considering I waited months before doing anything, but now my back is to a wall and the only wy to do anything in this community is via the community (hyun's case thing comes to mind, even though it's not similar to mine). Also I know you don't like me, but I actually don't have anything against you, I genuinely do not care about stuff you say about me probably 30mins-1hr after you say it. I just see it as heated up internet argument / the internet. ~_~ EDIT - The suggestion about Riot was good, but when I did seek for their help worlds was going on (as I mentioned) then in the end there was the issue about "how to approach it" since coachs were not recognized. I didn't try again recently, but after seeing Ocelote in recent days mock me again with this VERY situation, I responded with this. The sad thing about suing Ocelote is I'm in Korea, a resident of the USA, and he is in Spain. I can't even begin to know how to go about all this, and I would assume I would invest way more money than I'm seeking. I'm no lawyer, nor do I even begin to know how international law stuff works but yeah, that's why I hadn't taken this route. | ||
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Celial
2602 Posts
On November 04 2014 16:41 lastshadow wrote: No I didn't. EG/SK/NiP (who attempted to hire me btw recently, I have proof of that too) wouldn't have to think about this, because they know they're not trying to scam or deceive me. Out of all the teams I've ever coached or done work for, this is the only incident which something like this has arose, and it is because it is ongoing for 3months. When people asked me for info/secrets about SHC when I wasn't working with them, I refused to say/give anything. As for the SHC thing, the majority of SHC who worked with me (not just the "kids" (only rallez/selfie were young) all had nothing but good stuff to say about me, including rallez/selfie (who came to my aid in this ocelote scenario). At this time you'd be surprised (or you could check some of the people who tweeted at me in the past two months, or even todays tweet) the organizations who ask me for temp-work or help. Two of the fore-runners for the EU expansion tour already have taken up this offer for help, because again they know they're not going to deceive/cheat me out of money, but also I won't work ever again for a major team/org without a contract upfront. I know where you're coming from though, and I understand myself, I actually do (the chat-logs with KaSing I posted here) but I'm left with no where to turn, and this is thousands of dollars, not like $50. I wouldn't say it is a lack of emotional control considering I waited months before doing anything, but now my back is to a wall and the only wy to do anything in this community is via the community (hyun's case thing comes to mind, even though it's not similar to mine). Also I know you don't like me, but I actually don't have anything against you, I genuinely do not care about stuff you say about me probably 30mins-1hr after you say it. I just see it as heated up internet argument / the internet. ~_~ EDIT - The suggestion about Riot was good, but when I did seek for their help worlds was going on (as I mentioned) then in the end there was the issue about "how to approach it" since coachs were not recognized. I didn't try again recently, but after seeing Ocelote in recent days mock me again with this VERY situation, I responded with this. Serious question: What is it that you hope to achieve? Ocelote didn't show any intent to pay you these past two months. He CANNOT pay you now. Do you know how that would look? All you achieve is some petty revenge. Which hurts your reputation more than anything you ever did in the past. I don't see a worthy pay-off to this approach. Or any pay-off at all. Except emotional, which is really just masturbation. You were a poker player right? While doing nothing would be 0EV (at this point), this move is definitely -EV. Also, great that people wanted to work with you in the past. Orgs wanted to hire you in the past. I actually thought - from a business/political point of view - you managed to pull off the victimization of your person quite well. Public opinion was very strong in your favor. Thing is, you just destroyed all of that (to the people who matter from a business point of view). Again, hope you can make bank on your public image alone, because the next few years you're pretty much going to be a pariah. | ||
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lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
It's not victimization when the mass majority agree with something, it was actually pretty atrocious how some people treated me/some shit that happened throughout everything, any decent human would actually say this. And public opinion of me seems to be fine, like I don't know where these comments come from. A quick glance whenever I'm mentioned on reddit, or at my social media's is proof of this. As for what I hope to achieve, I want my money, but also at this point want to expose what happened with me/him and how he's tried to ignore/cover it up. EDIT - He could still pay me, and then apologize for the stuff he said about me (bashing my sexuality/depression/lying about the things he said about SHC/myself) etc and at least try to be a decent person by doing so. I wouldn't entirely believe his apology to be sincere, but I would stop saying negative things about him, and I would just choose to turn a blind eye to anything he's mentioned in and just tell people "Yeah he finally paid me, it's over and done with" | ||
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Celial
2602 Posts
On November 04 2014 16:55 lastshadow wrote: What? Just today four org's contacted me, look at twitter. I still work with SHC and am in the process of talking to riot as an NA LCS team wants me at the same time that I'm with SHC... It's not victimization when the mass majority agree with something, it was actually pretty atrocious how some people treated me/some shit that happened throughout everything, any decent human would actually say this. And public opinion of me seems to be fine, like I don't know where these comments come from. A quick glance whenever I'm mentioned on reddit, or at my social media's is proof of this. As for what I hope to achieve, I want my money, but also at this point want to expose what happened with me/him and how he's tried to ignore/cover it up. EDIT - He could still pay me, and then apologize for the stuff he said about me (bashing my sexuality/depression/lying about the things he said about SHC/myself) etc and at least try to be a decent person by doing so. I wouldn't entirely believe his apology to be sincere, but I would stop saying negative things about him, and I would just choose to turn a blind eye to anything he's mentioned in and just tell people "Yeah he finally paid me, it's over and done with" Read again shithead. I repeatedly stated that your public image is fine. I pointed out that it's the only thing going for you right now. Orgs in LoL are not run like businesses. Only NiP, SK, ALL, CLG, TSM, COL come to mind. The rest are kids taking their first steps in a world they don't fully understand. Also yes, running to reddit whining is the definition of "throwing oneself into the victim role". Again, I said it was really well done and built a lot of goodwill in your favor and gave you some serious political capital. What you don't seem to understand is the power balace one has to strike between "people that matter" and the public. You are doing very well in the latter department, but probably not so well in the first. By the way, what you are doing (wanting him to apologize, getting revenge on him, etc) is achieving nothing. It's emotional masturbation. Look at it this way: You just spent a lot of political capital, put yourself in a vulnerable position. You gain what? Satisfaction. There is no real gain. I mean I get it, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks of the circumstances, you had an emotionally rough life up to this point. What you NEED to do is to take a fucking step back. You WANT others to attack you personally, especially when you're in the public eye. It gives you a lot of power. What ocelote thinks of you, what I or TL.net think of you, it doesn't matter. What matters is how you can use whatever happens to further your goals. I assume which are still "living in Korea, not going back to the USA"? So in other words, money. Sure, this episode boosts your shortterm revenue by putting you out there again and landing you some gigs. But think fucking longterm! What you need is a stable job in an industry you like that pays decently. Which are preeeeeeeeetty rare in eSports. Trust me on this one boy, business and political maneuvering is something I do for a living. Edit: He simply cannot pay now. Doing so would make no sense from a political point of view. It opens up a lot of attack vectors against his company. He already made the business decision to not pay you, so there is no changing that either. You also handed him a lot of power in the sense that he can go around and claim "we only lost because some shithead we contracted leaked all our intel". Where he had nothing before, you just handed him a powerful tool. For free. Edit 2: Again, I understand where you are coming from. But this is nothing but business. And what you are doing is bad for business. Should've written off your losses and put pressure on G2 behind the scenes. Edit 3 (the last one I promise): What it boils down to, from a purely objective perspective: Just because you got wronged doesn't give you the right to blackmail someone. You try to bargain. Never do that. He didn't pay you, so just put the stuff out there. That would be some proper revenge. But blackmailing is bad. It's the one big lesson I learned when I started: Have contingency plans and don't every be afraid to pull the trigger. If shit doesn't work out the way it was agreed upon: "I'm not happy how this worked out. How do we fix this?" -> it either gets fixed or you get to say "Alright then, I guess we are done. With all resulting consequences." and leave the room. Pull the trigger. Once a deal is in place, there is no bargaining. Although I'm not sure if you are able to be a cold businessman with your (current) emotional make-up. | ||
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