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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 01 2014 23:45 Gahlo wrote: Pls show actual proof that Riot forced it on Kespa and OGN. Just pointing out that this is basically an unreasonable demand. You are asking for for someone to hack high level Riot/Kespa email addresses and/or find a leaker (deepthroat style) among those people. Its not like they are just going to call in Travis and Thorin to watch the negotiations. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On November 01 2014 10:38 zulu_nation8 wrote: damn lod just streamed himself beating huhi and jesiz pretty convincingly in 5s Huhi was streaming last week. That guy was legitly struggling in mid lane during Diamond promos. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On November 02 2014 04:13 nafta wrote: Honestly all reworks(but skarner) I have seen so far from riot improved the champions.Maybe some of them weren't needed like xerath but they definitely overall improved him. Saying you know how jungle matchups go is really fucking stupid though.It is the only role in the game which you can't predict lol. Hearing improve and Xerath in the same sentence hurts my heart. He had his identity destroyed. I do find it hilarious that Skarner has been left to rot again. He was actually played straight after the rework, Riot got ancy and nerfed. Now he is back on the scrap heap. Riot policy on who they buff is really infuriating. Ahri gets a significant one (clear buffs plus becomes near manaless) after just falling out of favour, yet champs that haven't been sighted in years get absolutely nothing. Or they give Galio scaling MR. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35145 Posts
On November 02 2014 04:43 cLutZ wrote: Just pointing out that this is basically an unreasonable demand. You are asking for for someone to hack high level Riot/Kespa email addresses and/or find a leaker (deepthroat style) among those people. Its not like they are just going to call in Travis and Thorin to watch the negotiations. It's also just as reasonable to say SKT match fixed to get K out of groups after KTA threw a wrench into the system. In both situations it works out for the best for the accused groups, yet their is no hard proof. As such, both allegations are irresponsible to make. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 02 2014 07:18 Gahlo wrote: It's also just as reasonable to say SKT match fixed to get K out of groups after KTA threw a wrench into the system. In both situations it works out for the best for the accused groups, yet their is no hard proof. As such, both allegations are irresponsible to make. circumstances heavily suggest that riot imposed these changes on the korean scene. and it wasn't some miraculous coincidence. you honestly believe that kespa and OGN decided to cancel a tournament they started advertising, and restructure their whole organization to give less exposure to the core sponsors all on their own. LOL | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 02 2014 07:18 Gahlo wrote: It's also just as reasonable to say SKT match fixed to get K out of groups after KTA threw a wrench into the system. In both situations it works out for the best for the accused groups, yet their is no hard proof. As such, both allegations are irresponsible to make. Except the likelihood of one of ten+, poorly paid (many now not even with skt), players or support staff leaking that is much more likely than one of the few high level executives leaking. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35145 Posts
On November 02 2014 07:54 cLutZ wrote: Except the likelihood of one of ten+, poorly paid (many now not even with skt), players or support staff leaking that is much more likely than one of the few high level executives leaking. And in the end, still, you have 0 proof. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
The skt example is pure speculation based off of an assumed motivation which was questionable at the time, and only appears like an unimpeachable motivation using hindsight and our knowledge of the subsequent history. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35145 Posts
On November 02 2014 08:18 -Zoda- wrote: The fact that the only region without LCS format was Korea isn't enough to show Riot forced Kespa and OGN to align ? I really doubt Riot could actually force Kespa to do anything. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Did Riot contribute to the format change decision? Probably. From their perspective, it's a favorable change for many reasons (for example, Korea adopting the LCS format is essentially a validation of the format in the eyes of all its naysayers, many of whom used Korea's OGN format as a counterexample of a successful alternative). But it's probably far outside of what they're capable of to force OGN to alter it's tournament format. Remember that Kespa is an organization of the teams, not some impartial arbiter. Many of the teams would definitely be going into this with their own self-interest in mind, particularly as certain of their competitors (namely Samsung) would be harmed more by the reduction to a single team than they would. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35145 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 02 2014 08:23 Gahlo wrote: I really doubt Riot could actually force Kespa to do anything. depends on what you mean by force. Riot can say "only teams who go through this style of tournament and only one team per organization, which much be chosen before the year begins can participate in worlds" sure Champions could keep running as it was. but they'd probably switch to what riot wants so the sponsors can have a team at worlds. if you mean riot came over and forced them to sign a contract by moving their hand for them that disbanded champions and created these changes, then yeah definitely didnt force them. riot doesn't control kespa or OGN, but they 100% control worlds and can use that as leverage. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 02 2014 08:55 PrinceXizor wrote: Riot can say "only teams who go through this style of tournament and only one team per organization, which much be chosen before the year begins can participate in worlds" Except that's retarded because that's a bluff that Riot would never want to risk Kespa/OGN calling. The Korean scene is internally self-sufficient, unlike the LCS regions. Riot needs Korea more than Korea needs Riot. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On November 02 2014 08:23 Gahlo wrote: I really doubt Riot could actually force Kespa to do anything. Actually they can force them to do whatever they want. Unless the South Korean Government is willing to violate international copyright treaties (that they are signatories to) for a LoL proleague. On November 02 2014 09:01 TheYango wrote: Except that's retarded because that's a bluff that Riot would never want to risk Kespa/OGN calling. The Korean scene is internally self-sufficient, unlike the LCS regions. Riot needs Korea more than Korea needs Riot. True, but worth responding to. Koreans make lots of money off LoL, enough that its unclear that another game would step into that void if Riot pulled the license. Edit 2: What Gahlo's position is, essentially, is that he will not entertain the notion that Riot's pressure was the reason for the change, unless a person discloses that. A person who necessarily is financially disincentivized from disclosing. Its like if you relied on Enron upper management to disclose the fraud. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On November 02 2014 09:01 TheYango wrote: Except that's retarded because that's a bluff that Riot would never want to risk Kespa/OGN calling. The Korean scene is internally self-sufficient, unlike the LCS regions. Riot needs Korea more than Korea needs Riot. I mean the korean scene is indeed internally self sufficient, but if the players want to win worlds, they could leave the country. and if the popular players leave it gets harder and harder to keep propping new players up as idols if the famous ones rotate out too quickly. look at how far SC2 fell before LoL got going in korea once the popular koreans started vacating the country. it may not be an immediate issue but damn it's a guaranteed slow death. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35145 Posts
On November 02 2014 09:02 PrinceXizor wrote: I mean the korean scene is indeed internally self sufficient, but if the players want to win worlds, they could leave the country. and if the popular players leave it gets harder and harder to keep propping new players up as idols if the famous ones rotate out too quickly. look at how far SC2 fell before LoL got going in korea once the popular koreans started vacating the country. it may not be an immediate issue but damn it's a guaranteed slow death. Which is what was already happening anyway and would have depleted a sister team system anyway. League catching on had nothing to do with SC2 pro competing out of country. On November 02 2014 09:01 cLutZ wrote: Actually they can force them to do whatever they want. Unless the South Korean Government is willing to violate international copyright treaties (that they are signatories to) for a LoL proleague. Funny, I seem to remember them telling Blizzard to fuck off for years when they tried to collect a fee for BW tournaments. | ||
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