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On September 09 2014 10:18 GolemMadness wrote:
Yes, he acted poorly in that he didn't have a contract and didn't document the amount of time properly. Really though, that's not the issue. Who cares if he's one hour off when he's willing to settle for much less than the actual amount owed? The point is that they are (or were) not planning to give him ANYTHING. THAT is the issue.
No. LS claims he was paid for 4 hours of work (or at least ocelots does in the article)
This is why I think so heavily on the "charging for prep work" angle. I mean if I were paying for coaching unless it was made specifically clear that I was also paying for prep time I would absolutely not pay a bill that came up 6-10 hours over budget.
Stuff like "I will make vods for you" would not cut it for me, I would expect those materials to be included in the costs specified just like I expect a plumber to come with his tools and not charge me for buying a whole new set.
If he actually did that much facetime coaching then yea that is the charge. But it doesn't seem like that to my reading.
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On September 09 2014 10:18 GolemMadness wrote:
Yes, he acted poorly in that he didn't have a contract and didn't document the amount of time properly. Really though, that's not the issue. Who cares if he's one hour off when he's willing to settle for much less than the actual amount owed? The point is that they are (or were) not planning to give him ANYTHING. THAT is the issue.
But don't you think it's weird? If you were doing a 195 dollars / hour work, wouldn't you recording every single moment which you worked on the project? At least I would, because every hour I failed to record is 195 dollars lost. LS not only cannot track his hours exactly, he hasn't even made up his mind as to how many hours to charge yet! How could he ask for G2 to pay him if he doesn't know exactly how much money to charge?
So, here's my tinfoil hat theory.
+ Show Spoiler +
Originally, the plan was to have LS to "try out" coaching for G2 (very shady on G2's part, I know), free of charge, on stipulation that should G2 gains the relegation spot (and potentially onto the LCS), LS will keep being their coach and get paid. LS agreed to this, did some coaching for G2, G2 didn't like LS's work, communication broke down, and G2 kicked LS out.
Things did not work out so LS tried to get some money out of it. According to LS's latest reply, he actually only expected a very small amount of money (~200 dollars) from G2, which G2 did not comply with because G2 didn't expect to pay LS a single cent. LS got angry, went to Richard Lewis, now here's the article that we all see.
My personal opinion is that LS should have never agreed for free coaching and trial periods. Trial periods can be done with a lower fee, but doing it for free is a big no-no in the industry. This, in combination with no written contract/agreement of any form, compels me to put the majority of the blame actually on LS.
Also, for some reason LS actually googled me and tracked me back to TL. Not sure why he would even bother to google me.
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On September 09 2014 12:04 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 10:18 GolemMadness wrote:
Yes, he acted poorly in that he didn't have a contract and didn't document the amount of time properly. Really though, that's not the issue. Who cares if he's one hour off when he's willing to settle for much less than the actual amount owed? The point is that they are (or were) not planning to give him ANYTHING. THAT is the issue. No. LS claims he was paid for 4 hours of work (or at least ocelots does in the article) This is why I think so heavily on the "charging for prep work" angle. I mean if I were paying for coaching unless it was made specifically clear that I was also paying for prep time I would absolutely not pay a bill that came up 6-10 hours over budget. Stuff like "I will make vods for you" would not cut it for me, I would expect those materials to be included in the costs specified just like I expect a plumber to come with his tools and not charge me for buying a whole new set. If he actually did that much facetime coaching then yea that is the charge. But it doesn't seem like that to my reading.
Maybe I misread, but my understanding with what LS told me on reddit is that:
1. He worked 11 hours "physically" on coaching, presumably because he was on voice chat actively talking to/observing G2 players since he got skype logs, etc.
2. There were 3ish hours of "preparation" hours which he has no proof for.
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Has anyone been playing Gnar? I've been doing quite well on him. I've settled with opening bruta into full tank with cdr boots and max cdr. His base damage is stupid good. I've won some really nice 1v2's on him too, he's great at that.
Bit hard to carry with him though, you really have to land great ults which is very hard, and basically need flash.
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On September 09 2014 12:30 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 12:04 Goumindong wrote:On September 09 2014 10:18 GolemMadness wrote:
Yes, he acted poorly in that he didn't have a contract and didn't document the amount of time properly. Really though, that's not the issue. Who cares if he's one hour off when he's willing to settle for much less than the actual amount owed? The point is that they are (or were) not planning to give him ANYTHING. THAT is the issue. No. LS claims he was paid for 4 hours of work (or at least ocelots does in the article) This is why I think so heavily on the "charging for prep work" angle. I mean if I were paying for coaching unless it was made specifically clear that I was also paying for prep time I would absolutely not pay a bill that came up 6-10 hours over budget. Stuff like "I will make vods for you" would not cut it for me, I would expect those materials to be included in the costs specified just like I expect a plumber to come with his tools and not charge me for buying a whole new set. If he actually did that much facetime coaching then yea that is the charge. But it doesn't seem like that to my reading. Maybe I misread, but my understanding with what LS told me on reddit is that: 1. He worked 11 hours "physically" on coaching, presumably because he was on voice chat actively talking to/observing G2 players since he got skype logs, etc. 2. There were 3ish hours of "preparation" hours which he has no proof for.
The article quotes the converstation between the two of them
“This is not my problem, definitely," Rodriguez told De Cesare. "I did not agree on paying you anything." He claimed that Rivera didn't actually promise anything, either "from what I have seen in every single one of his messages."
"This is clear," he continued. "Talk as much as you wish but do not come out with a single lie. There is no evidence that you would get paid the amount you said. We have the receipts of your payments for four hours of work, I think Reddit will like how much we paid you for those four hours."
Which i took to mean that he worked for 4 hours per an agreement but that the rest was either not agreed to or prep work
The coaching time specified was also from the article
During this time, De Cesare worked directly with players on helping improve their play through one-on-one sessions. He also created over five hours of video content for team analysis purposes. He estimates the total amount of coaching to be somewhere between 12 and 14 hours. At the time, Rivera also said De Cesare would serve as the team's official analyst and would get paid a set amount per month.
5 hours of video content should take more than 5 hours to make (i mean it doesn't necessarily but it should since otherwise you've got wasted space in your video) and I took that to be a part of the "total 12 to 14 hours"
maybe it wasn't. I certainly don't know. That was my reading of it though.
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On September 09 2014 07:21 Gorsameth wrote:Contracts people, Contracts. The most amazing thing from that for me tho is his price. Who on earth pays 200 bucks an hour for a coach. I mean I can understand it somewhat for him doing stuff on the side for ranked teams ect but 200 an hour for a serious coaching job with a team? That's a ridiculously high price.
My company legit gets paid $250 for every hour of consulting I do (obviously I do not see anywhere near the full amount of that).
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On September 09 2014 12:44 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 12:30 Sufficiency wrote:On September 09 2014 12:04 Goumindong wrote:On September 09 2014 10:18 GolemMadness wrote:
Yes, he acted poorly in that he didn't have a contract and didn't document the amount of time properly. Really though, that's not the issue. Who cares if he's one hour off when he's willing to settle for much less than the actual amount owed? The point is that they are (or were) not planning to give him ANYTHING. THAT is the issue. No. LS claims he was paid for 4 hours of work (or at least ocelots does in the article) This is why I think so heavily on the "charging for prep work" angle. I mean if I were paying for coaching unless it was made specifically clear that I was also paying for prep time I would absolutely not pay a bill that came up 6-10 hours over budget. Stuff like "I will make vods for you" would not cut it for me, I would expect those materials to be included in the costs specified just like I expect a plumber to come with his tools and not charge me for buying a whole new set. If he actually did that much facetime coaching then yea that is the charge. But it doesn't seem like that to my reading. Maybe I misread, but my understanding with what LS told me on reddit is that: 1. He worked 11 hours "physically" on coaching, presumably because he was on voice chat actively talking to/observing G2 players since he got skype logs, etc. 2. There were 3ish hours of "preparation" hours which he has no proof for. The article quotes the converstation between the two of them Show nested quote +“This is not my problem, definitely," Rodriguez told De Cesare. "I did not agree on paying you anything." He claimed that Rivera didn't actually promise anything, either "from what I have seen in every single one of his messages."
"This is clear," he continued. "Talk as much as you wish but do not come out with a single lie. There is no evidence that you would get paid the amount you said. We have the receipts of your payments for four hours of work, I think Reddit will like how much we paid you for those four hours." Which i took to mean that he worked for 4 hours per an agreement but that the rest was either not agreed to or prep work The coaching time specified was also from the article Show nested quote +During this time, De Cesare worked directly with players on helping improve their play through one-on-one sessions. He also created over five hours of video content for team analysis purposes. He estimates the total amount of coaching to be somewhere between 12 and 14 hours. At the time, Rivera also said De Cesare would serve as the team's official analyst and would get paid a set amount per month. 5 hours of video content should take more than 5 hours to make (i mean it doesn't necessarily but it should since otherwise you've got wasted space in your video) and I took that to be a part of the "total 12 to 14 hours" maybe it wasn't. I certainly don't know. That was my reading of it though.
OK well, TBH I didn't read the article very carefully.
But what we have found here is discrepancy between the article and what LS told me directly.
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On September 09 2014 12:50 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 07:21 Gorsameth wrote:On September 09 2014 06:34 Gahlo wrote:Yeah, it's pretty fucked up. Contracts people, Contracts. The most amazing thing from that for me tho is his price. Who on earth pays 200 bucks an hour for a coach. I mean I can understand it somewhat for him doing stuff on the side for ranked teams ect but 200 an hour for a serious coaching job with a team? That's a ridiculously high price. My company legit gets paid $250 for every hour of consulting I do (obviously I do not see anywhere near the full amount of that).
I never got paid directly that much, but one time a customer of ours did not comply to the contract's timing and delayed the whole project for almost a month.
So we decided to charge them for all the time which we "lost" because we had to wait for them. This came down to 100 dollars per hour for the junior people and 250+ per hour for the senior people. At the end it was nearly 200k extra dollars which they had to pay.
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Time spent coaching should be itemizable. Time spent on prep work shouldn't, and I believe that it's pretty standard. The prep work doesn't get paid because that way you have an incentive to drive down costs/time spent, and the other you interfface with a customer, who ultimately decides if your services are worthwhile.
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On September 09 2014 12:43 sob3k wrote:
Has anyone been playing Gnar? I've been doing quite well on him. I've settled with opening bruta into full tank with cdr boots and max cdr. His base damage is stupid good. I've won some really nice 1v2's on him too, he's great at that.
Bit hard to carry with him though, you really have to land great ults which is very hard, and basically need flash.
ya he's op
but for real his full tank build with one bruta item is op
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On September 09 2014 13:09 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 12:43 sob3k wrote:
Has anyone been playing Gnar? I've been doing quite well on him. I've settled with opening bruta into full tank with cdr boots and max cdr. His base damage is stupid good. I've won some really nice 1v2's on him too, he's great at that.
Bit hard to carry with him though, you really have to land great ults which is very hard, and basically need flash. ya he's op but for real his full tank build with one bruta item is op
Whatever i don't believe it unless you get diamond only playing Gnar
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So I used to do this method of SoloQ where I would play two games on my main (ranked) and if I went Win-Loss or Win-Win, I'd play the third match but if I went Loss-Loss I'd go and play on my smurf. I'd try and do this every day (so 2-3 games per day). Recently I haven't been able to play every day so maybe every 3rd day I'm grinding out 4-6 games regardless of win/loss. It feels a lot more streaky and I've been bouncing constantly from Gold V -> Gold III and back again.
Just wondering if there is maybe a correlation and I should go back to just stopping once I have a 2 game loss streak.
EDIT: trying to get plat before end of season.
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On September 09 2014 13:29 miicah wrote:
So I used to do this method of SoloQ where I would play two games on my main (ranked) and if I went Win-Loss or Win-Win, I'd play the third match but if I went Loss-Loss I'd go and play on my smurf. I'd try and do this every day (so 2-3 games per day). Recently I haven't been able to play every day so maybe every 3rd day I'm grinding out 4-6 games regardless of win/loss. It feels a lot more streaky and I've been bouncing constantly from Gold V -> Gold III and back again.
Just wondering if there is maybe a correlation and I should go back to just stopping once I have a 2 game loss streak.
EDIT: trying to get plat before end of season.
just pretend ranked is normals and play a lot
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On September 09 2014 13:29 miicah wrote:
So I used to do this method of SoloQ where I would play two games on my main (ranked) and if I went Win-Loss or Win-Win, I'd play the third match but if I went Loss-Loss I'd go and play on my smurf. I'd try and do this every day (so 2-3 games per day). Recently I haven't been able to play every day so maybe every 3rd day I'm grinding out 4-6 games regardless of win/loss. It feels a lot more streaky and I've been bouncing constantly from Gold V -> Gold III and back again.
Just wondering if there is maybe a correlation and I should go back to just stopping once I have a 2 game loss streak.
EDIT: trying to get plat before end of season.
There is probably a correlation. Its very easy to let bad habits and feelings creep into your games and then you play worse. Quit playing when you lose (or play normals) and you will do better.
The end of the season is a still at least a month away and probably longer than that for when they finally make the cut off. So you won't have an issue with the number of games played
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On September 09 2014 13:07 Amui wrote:
Time spent coaching should be itemizable. Time spent on prep work shouldn't, and I believe that it's pretty standard. The prep work doesn't get paid because that way you have an incentive to drive down costs/time spent, and the other you interfface with a customer, who ultimately decides if your services are worthwhile.
eh. Lawyers can and will bill you for literally every minute they work your case; that includes prep. A lot of consulting type jobs can and will bill you for every second they spend on you. Of course, that's usually only if said consultant is highly valued.
It all comes down to what Ocelot and G2 agreed to pay for.
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holy shit my last game nidalee didn't get banned oh boy...
loss forgiven 
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Steals baron with Jinx ult looool
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On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here
Aren't Akali and Urgot junglers Nightblue likes to play occasionally? With nearly 100% success whenever he pulls them out? I mean the dude is probably the best non-pro solo queue jungler out there, and if he thinks its worthwhile...
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On September 09 2014 17:28 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here Aren't Akali and Urgot junglers Nightblue likes to play occasionally? With nearly 100% success whenever he pulls them out? I mean the dude is probably the best non-pro solo queue jungler out there, and if he thinks its worthwhile...
Well, that's pretty easy to check. He's 9-16 with Akali and has 0 games with Urgot.
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EPT
