EPT[Patch 4.13] Sona Update General Discussion - Page 39
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:15 Goumindong wrote: Why not? What is more likely, that you're the .005% or that you're causing the problems? again, thats assuming the player is in the average. which is not what the discussion would be about. we're talking about the outlier already, and you're saying "no he's not an outlier". its not even the same conversation. | ||
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
Edit: Why don't you discuss the fact that Riot announced that Viktor is in line for a gameplay update? What is your proposal for solving his problems, etc? https://support.leagueoflegends.com/entries/40116190-Champion-Update-Schedule | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 06 2014 10:53 Kinie wrote: Can someone explain to me the Orianna vs. Zed matchup as Ori in mid lane? Just got done playing a game and I thought Ori was a good person to put against Zed, as you just ball yourself when he ults in and just farm with the ball. He was ganked twice mid (died once, blew flash to escape the second gank) and still came out ahead by 20-30 cs and just snowballed that advantage into the other lanes. We traded kills (I died early, I got him back when he tower dove too deep and ignite killed him). Was my mistake in that I should have taken Exhaust mid to counter the dive along w/ the death mark? Well, you don't cs with the ball, you zone with it and force him to cs with spells. If you are ahead this is particularly true, and if you have blue you should ward to keep track of his roams, push and take jungle. Plus, its also about not having teammates dumb enough to try and 1v1 the monster that is zed mid to late. Ori is a much better team fighter, but it's always hard to win 4v5. | ||
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include: "Elo hell" The Tribunal Bans, either from TL.net or LoL "What is a tank" (and other vague monikers) Unjustified game theory lomo Hate to be that guy, but this has gone on for too many pages. In other news, how does the jungle feel to you guys? J4 feels insanely strong right now, especially because I want someone who can kill Tristana. | ||
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:33 cLutZ wrote: Well, you don't cs with the ball, you zone with it and force him to cs with spells. If you are ahead this is particularly true, and if you have blue you should ward to keep track of his roams, push and take jungle. Plus, its also about not having teammates dumb enough to try and 1v1 the monster that is zed mid to late. Ori is a much better team fighter, but it's always hard to win 4v5. I think the other major issue was that Jax lost to Fiora top with little to no jungle interaction from either side, which let her get a major item early on (she had like 118 CS in 15 min. with only two TPs back to lane vs. jax on 70-80 CS) so Fiora was free to get a couple hits in with her 210 AD at level 12 and then ult someone to death, so no one could really 1v1 either Zed or Fiora. Bot also kinda fed the enemy team, enough so that Annie support turned into Annie carry. Overall I think the game was played poorly in the lane phase, with my lane the only one going "even" or favoring Zed a bit due to his CS lead. As for the jungle question, assuming the enemy team doesn't have an insane CC skill (I'm looking at you, Morgana) Vi is still pretty good. Can't stop her ult unless you Zhonyas or kill her before she connects, and you only need to get Elder Lizard + Brutalizer or Hexdrinker on her for your damage before going full tank. She benefits more from building HP + Defensive stat more than other Junglers due to her passive, but I tend to go Lizard > Bruta/Hexdrinker > Randuins > BV > Sunfire/SV, with Merc Treads for my shoes. Mao jungle is basically Zac from s3 right now, play him top or jungle and he's OP. J4 is good because he has early damage with tanky skills/passive, and his ult is a good engage. Amumu is legit good in solo Q now, just going full defense and the insane duration of his ult late game means one good bandage + ult means people die. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:32 zodde wrote: It's all Elo hell discussion in disguise anyways, can you please stop arguing whether or not you're stuck in Elo hell (or if it even exists in the first place) and just discuss the game itself? Edit: Why don't you discuss the fact that Riot announced that Viktor is in line for a gameplay update? What is your proposal for solving his problems, etc? https://support.leagueoflegends.com/entries/40116190-Champion-Update-Schedule i don't necessarily think he needs it. so i'll wait to see how they "improve him". | ||
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:33 Senorcuidado wrote: I guess everyone forgot the OP: Hate to be that guy, but this has gone on for too many pages. In other news, how does the jungle feel to you guys? J4 feels insanely strong right now, especially because I want someone who can kill Tristana. J4 is strong, probably one of the strongest soloq junglers after the holy trinity got nerfed. Mao is also good, but why play Mao jungle when you can play Mao top, really? Amumu is also a lot of fun, and is honestly always going to be decent for soloq just because his ult can win teamfights so easily. Especially when you got for AP jungle item, guise, rylais and stuff like that. AP/tank builds are pretty good on him. Nunu maybe? Only ever played him top with mogwais FH/grail build though, but he seems fine if you can get into his playstyle. Edit: Does anyone play a lot of Vi? What kind of build? Did anyone try playing Eve with more damage after her ratio buffs/base damage nerfs? | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:33 Senorcuidado wrote: I guess everyone forgot the OP: Hate to be that guy, but this has gone on for too many pages. In other news, how does the jungle feel to you guys? J4 feels insanely strong right now, especially because I want someone who can kill Tristana. I dont know that J4 is particularly good at killing tristana. J4 has always been strong in my mind but I dont want him to become an S-tier meta choice again simply because his ult crowds out all of the less mobile mages and they are already in a sorry state with a couple notable exceptions (im lookin at you Syndra). I don't know your level but I don't see much innovation in the jungle even given the last patch nerfs to the top tier. I don't know what it will take to knock elise off her pedestal without completely destroying her. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:32 zodde wrote: It's all Elo hell discussion in disguise anyways, can you please stop arguing whether or not you're stuck in Elo hell (or if it even exists in the first place) and just discuss the game itself? Edit: Why don't you discuss the fact that Riot announced that Viktor is in line for a gameplay update? What is your proposal for solving his problems, etc? https://support.leagueoflegends.com/entries/40116190-Champion-Update-Schedule All I want is for the cast time to be removed on his ult and for its cooldown to go down with rank. Mana costs being a bit lower on his E would be nice as well. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35158 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:21 Volband wrote: Gahlo, why is it so important to make people admit that there is a possibility to win the lottery 100 times in a row, while there's also a possibility to lose 1,000,000 rock-paper-scissor games in a row. Do you like highly unlikely but possible scenarios and odd ones, or you just try to justify your position in league? You are investing an awful lot in this discussion, and I don't really see the point. Because I'm not afraid to have the notion that there's a possibility of something happening just because "I don't like it." I'm also pretty fine with my position in league. I'm exactly where I left of last season except I have better LP splits and I'm a better player than I was. It's amazing how many people just assume that defending the possibility of somebody being in a shit scenario means that the person themselves are in one, despite vocalizing multiple times to the contrary. You have no idea how much/little I'm investing in this. If you don't see the point, why are you so mad about it? | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:44 GolemMadness wrote: All I want is for the cast time to be removed on his ult and for its cooldown to go down with rank. Mana costs being a bit lower on his E would be nice as well. I'd just want his Yellow augment to increase cast range on his Q or double the shielding instead of give movement speed. still think he's pretty good though. | ||
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:43 Velocirapture wrote: I dont know that J4 is particularly good at killing tristana. J4 has always been strong in my mind but I dont want him to become an S-tier meta choice again simply because his ult crowds out all of the less mobile mages and they are already in a sorry state with a couple notable exceptions (im lookin at you Syndra). I don't know your level but I don't see much innovation in the jungle even given the last patch nerfs to the top tier. I don't know what it will take to knock elise off her pedestal without completely destroying her. Both Lux and Xerath are fine right now, as well as Ori if you dont count her W as "mobility". As for J4 becoming stronger, I think it's part because other junglers got nerfed, but also simply because the less mobile carries (both mids and marksmen) are seeing a lot more play recently. As long as Jarvan has his ult, he will have a niche in just ganking people without escapes with every ult cooldown. If the mid meta goes towards what we saw around worlds last year, J4 will be a great pick. Edit: A bit beside the point, but faker has also showed Zilean and AP Kog, neither of which can escape j4 ult. (Check out game 1 of SKT T1 K and Jin Air Stealths btw, faker carrying pretty hard on AP Kog). | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:37 Kinie wrote: I think the other major issue was that Jax lost to Fiora top with little to no jungle interaction from either side, which let her get a major item early on (she had like 118 CS in 15 min. with only two TPs back to lane vs. jax on 70-80 CS) so Fiora was free to get a couple hits in with her 210 AD at level 12 and then ult someone to death, so no one could really 1v1 either Zed or Fiora. Bot also kinda fed the enemy team, enough so that Annie support turned into Annie carry. Overall I think the game was played poorly in the lane phase, with my lane the only one going "even" or favoring Zed a bit due to his CS lead. . Lol, sorry, but it sounds like you lost an game that Faker or GBM would have had trouble carrying, plus you lost lane (and side lanes feeding your lane is sadly part of that). | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:38 PrinceXizor wrote: i don't necessarily think he needs it. so i'll wait to see how they "improve him". He just needs some tweaks. His auto animation is really bad: It has the old ryze problem where it plays the shoot sound effect before you shoot. It also has a massive forward swing. Both of these combine to make it really hard to auto attack things in lane, which is a core aspect of his early lane bullying with his Q shield. His Q and W augments are really bad: Even if you like the bonus they give the raw stats are super gold inefficient compared to the raw stats of death. If his Q augment has 350 HP+ it might be decent. If his W augment had chalice passive, 10 MP/5, and 20% CDR it would be decent. Basically Death can substitute for a Deathcap, its got 100 AP and the total damage boost from the passive is actually more until you have a lot of AP. But his Q augment can't substitute as a tanking item. And his W augment can't substitute as a mana item. Do that and their problems go away. His laser needs tweaks to its smartcasting behavior: When you smartcast viktor's laser, if you miss the edge of the circle and are outside it. Viktor will move to put his laser there. This means that if you're trying to cast Viktor's laser while moving (either smart or normal) its really hard to get max range out of it. Additionally it means that you can fail to laser a whole bunch while running away you have to keep turning Viktor around to have him run in the right direction. This negates a lot of the zero cast time that viktor's laser has and can even get you killed sometimes. If they just made it so that if when you smartcast his laser and miss the edge of his range it treats the drag as if you started at the closest point in his range then it would be a lot better and almost instantly solve a lot of his problems On August 06 2014 11:21 PrinceXizor wrote: again, thats assuming the player is in the average. which is not what the discussion would be about. we're talking about the outlier already, and you're saying "no he's not an outlier". its not even the same conversation. Why would it be assuming he is the average? An "outlier" in this instance is a player that has is not toxic themselves yet has a disproportionate number of people on his teams which are toxic. My contention is that given someone has a disproportionate number of people on their team that are toxic, its much more likely that the person is toxic than they are an outlier. Sure outliers "exist" but even if you showed me one i would need some pretty hard evidence that showed they were not simply a cause. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Volband
Hungary6034 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:45 Gahlo wrote: Because I'm not afraid to have the notion that there's a possibility of something happening just because "I don't like it." I'm also pretty fine with my position in league. I'm exactly where I left of last season except I have better LP splits and I'm a better player than I was. It's amazing how many people just assume that defending the possibility of somebody being in a shit scenario means that the person themselves are in one, despite vocalizing multiple times to the contrary. You have no idea how much/little I'm investing in this. If you don't see the point, why are you so mad about it? What, I'm not mad. It's just an awfully strange topic given the situation, but then again, there's a chance for everything. It's great if you improved, I think most of the people would be much more interested if you were to talk about how you improved, and not about hypothetical scenarios which by no means, not even remotely true for you, even though you mostly hear it from people in your position, and if were true would explain many questions for you, but it's still the other guy. I mean, I believe you, it's just such a retarded topic, and has absolutely nothing to learn from. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On August 06 2014 11:38 PrinceXizor wrote: i don't necessarily think he needs it. so i'll wait to see how they "improve him". They are not going to improve him. He is fine as it is. The problem is that he has only 5 item slots. If Riot can solve that problem and make him "feel" better, it's mission accomplished. | ||
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