EPT[Patch 4.12] RIP Lucian General Discussion - Page 40
| Forum Index > LoL General |
|
JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
| ||
|
Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
On July 22 2014 15:37 Amui wrote: There are a lot of nuances in the game that add skill though. Even Annie, Tibbers and W are instant cast, so if you want to stun, it's better to cast those vs. Q. For some champs with multiple CC's and a gap closer, while it's intuitive to use the gap closer first, it's often better to flash for guaranteed CC, and save the gap closer for when they flash because it prevents a flash juke. These things are learned through playing, not through tooltip. All of the things you mentioned here though are decisions that the player makes. That's exactly what good game design is all about. Knowing that mashing Q while you are headbutting someone results in them getting knocked up, rather than away, isn't a decision, it is simply knowledge that you either have or don't have and it is good game design to make this option as obvious as possible. It's like the new TF Pick A Card indicator. Knowing the order that cards come in makes it easier to pick the right card, and before you had to play a few games with TF and memorize the order, but this isn't interesting gameplay, that's just rote memorization. The interesting gameplay is in deciding which card to pick in a given situation, and the new indicator makes this easier for new players. With Alistar clearly the interesting decision making is whether or not you should use his combo at a given time, or if you should use his skills individually (knock up one person, knock away another), or whatever. I may be entirely wrong as to why some at Riot don't like the Alistar combo though, since Riot has many times shown a pathological fear of anything in the game being used in ways that they didn't design. So maybe it's just that. | ||
|
wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
my sides are in orbit. | ||
|
schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
| ||
|
schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
On July 22 2014 17:09 wei2coolman wrote: https://twitter.com/KenBuechter/status/491478614198980608 my sides are in orbit. Who is that guy? | ||
|
wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On July 22 2014 17:26 schmutttt wrote: Anyone else think that Seraph really hasn't been much of an upgrade on Nien at all? If so, do you think it is because Seraph isn't that good or CLG just don't play a style that allows top lane to carry? I think seraph is better at not being a lane liability when CLG plays. He'll lose lane due to CLG's style of early game play where they often ignore seraph's lane and let him starve. But, despite being behind he rarely loses lane presence or pressure, he manages to keep an equal amount of game impact despite being put behind. Vulcan's Coach. | ||
|
Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
| ||
|
schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
On July 22 2014 17:43 wei2coolman wrote: I think seraph is better at not being a lane liability when CLG plays. He'll lose lane due to CLG's style of early game play where they often ignore seraph's lane and let him starve. But, despite being behind he rarely loses lane presence or pressure, he manages to keep an equal amount of game impact despite being put behind. Vulcan's Coach. Oooooooooh I remember that guy, think he posted 'what a boring game' after one of the better games at worlds. How can anyone take him seriously? | ||
|
GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
| ||
|
Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 22 2014 17:54 GolemMadness wrote: A couple days ago Reginald was talking on stream about how bad Seraph is and that every other top laner agrees that he's bad. I'm pretty amazed Reddit wasn't flooded with it to be honest. Pfft. Even some of TL was riding the Seraph hype train. I was saying Seraph is overrated and mediocre after LCS week 1, but tons of people were saying it's just communication issues and he's secretly OP. Honestly, I don't think he's terrible. CLG's playstyle forces him to play on the back foot, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near top 3 top laners in the NA. On July 22 2014 16:55 JazzVortical wrote: I think people are over reacting (slightly) about that Alistair quote. Nowhere did he say it was going to happen, only if they were doing a full rework, which he didn't confirm either. Agreed. People are going nuts wayyyy too prematurely. The Rioter even stated that they understand that the WQ combo "is honestly integral to his current balance and gameplay" and that "[removing it is] not something [they'd] do unless [they] supplemented the kit with ways to function and succeed without the combo." | ||
|
Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On July 22 2014 16:55 JazzVortical wrote: I think people are over reacting (slightly) about that Alistair quote. Nowhere did he say it was going to happen, only if they were doing a full rework, which he didn't confirm either. I just kinda like cow and I don't like it when designers say that they're going to make cow no longer cow if they had the chance. | ||
|
Alaric
France45622 Posts
On July 22 2014 11:12 Goumindong wrote: It makes me so sad that he doesn't understand Alistar. W alone is for peel, you only use it to knock people away. W with a combo is for initiation(Ideally AoE). W with Q separately always should be Q first. If you can maneuver to W someone into a wall you can maneuver to Q someone into the air then W them into your team. They did the same sort of thing when Morello was talking about Alistar changes ages ago. He was complaining about Alitar's heal when Alistar's heal is the only thing that keeps him relevant in lane against the majority of champions. Morello actually said something along the lines of "We don't like Alistar having a heal, he's supposed to be aggressive and stuff so why give him super good sustain? But atm he needs it to be able to lane against pokey shit and stuff like Thresh", followed by "We'd need to give him some form of sustai/damage mitigation so he can survive these hard lanes". I thought it was rather well thought-out for once, and the "theme" part wasn't used as a gimmick to get rid of something they dislike. And yeah, it's not like next patch the combo is removed. It's more about the idea expressed in the Q&A: "Players find something amazing that defines a champion and allows to make big plays? Doesn't matter, "players find something" we didn't anticipate, remove it". That'd be like Nintendo saying "sure wavedashing made Melee a great game, but that's not something we did on purpose, so let's remove it because you have to enjoy the game for reasons we intended". | ||
|
Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On July 22 2014 17:50 Duvon wrote: There are a lot of not entirely obvious combos or abilities in general (like immunity to some spells from pool of blood or rappel, timing possibilities from Brand, Jayce etc) but I can't think of any as unintuitive as the Ali combo. Other stuff are usable abilities while in flight. Alisar's combo is actually really intuitive if you understand how moveblock order of operations work. It's not like Ali's combo is weird or anything, it's just that by starting q immediately after you w, you start the knock up moveblock before they leave the radius and if you don't q immediately they leave the radius. Anyone who has seen blitz ezreal interaction or stopped a dash with a moveblock of any kind should grasp the concept intuitively and anyone who uses w and then q as an initiation tool on a team should see interaction and understand how its valuable. Edit: it would be like not letting Lee Sin use his safeguard in the middle of his q dash. | ||
|
Alaric
France45622 Posts
You'd have to guess that a spell animation can be "manually" cancelled in LoL, which isn't even consistent. | ||
|
GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On July 22 2014 19:01 Alaric wrote: Morello actually said something along the lines of "We don't like Alistar having a heal, he's supposed to be aggressive and stuff so why give him super good sustain? But atm he needs it to be able to lane against pokey shit and stuff like Thresh", followed by "We'd need to give him some form of sustai/damage mitigation so he can survive these hard lanes". I thought it was rather well thought-out for once, and the "theme" part wasn't used as a gimmick to get rid of something they dislike. And yeah, it's not like next patch the combo is removed. It's more about the idea expressed in the Q&A: "Players find something amazing that defines a champion and allows to make big plays? Doesn't matter, "players find something" we didn't anticipate, remove it". That'd be like Nintendo saying "sure wavedashing made Melee a great game, but that's not something we did on purpose, so let's remove it because you have to enjoy the game for reasons we intended". This is some conspiracy theory shit. No where does he say that he wants to remove it just because it wasn't intended. If that were the case, you wouldn't be able to do ult flash combos or ward hop as Lee anymore. | ||
|
Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
Edit: basically by pressing q as your in the air it automatically cancels the back end (what little there is) of w. The real "interesting interaction" is how you can get a free auto attack after w if you haven't turned off the auto portion of auto attacking and make no other input. | ||
|
Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On July 22 2014 17:09 wei2coolman wrote: https://twitter.com/KenBuechter/status/491478614198980608 my sides are in orbit. Zoonie's support week never forget | ||
|
nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On July 22 2014 18:22 Ryuu314 wrote: Pfft. Even some of TL was riding the Seraph hype train. I was saying Seraph is overrated and mediocre after LCS week 1, but tons of people were saying it's just communication issues and he's secretly OP. Honestly, I don't think he's terrible. CLG's playstyle forces him to play on the back foot, but I wouldn't put him anywhere near top 3 top laners in the NA. Well that would make you a not very smart person since most players who just join the lcs always perform poorly in the start overall. Don't really know how good is seraph since I don't watch his stream and no way to watch clg scrims but his lcs performance always just looks like someone who is very nervous to me.Exactly like altec but he finally managed to handle it a few weeks ago and he's been playing very well.Hopefully seraph can do the same before playoffs or during. | ||
|
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
I guess it is indeed true. Riot is just trying to screw Gambit over. Also RIP brokenshard. | ||
|
FR4CT4L
Australia697 Posts
| ||
| ||
