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[Patch 4.11] Maokai Rework General Discussion - Page 50

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 48 49 50 51 52 72 Next
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
July 10 2014 05:13 GMT
#981
On July 10 2014 13:10 wei2coolman wrote:
On the mention of jayce. Is it just me or he's got a terrible attack animation?

I think it's only his empowered attack is bad. His ranged projectile is very fast, and his windup isn't terrible either. Melee form doesn't feel any worse than most other champs.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
July 10 2014 05:14 GMT
#982
On July 10 2014 14:04 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 13:14 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:11 Sufficiency wrote:
His animation was only bad at release.

I played him yesterday. Both his melee and ranged animation in early levels felt really clunky. His spell animation for his q and e in melee also have that clunky feel too.


holy shit release Jayce when you would switch stance the "empowered" auto could be cancelled if you issued a move command up to a full second after the attack command it was so awful

I also played Jungle Darius just the other day, I don't think he's that great because late game he's pretty summoner reliant but he is so much fun. that said I think SotEL is a great one damage wonder on him, Go lizard into full tank, mabyyyyyye a brutalizer if you get really far ahead in levels, but mostly lizard into tank.


I dunno, I think he needs the quill coat. I also dont think EL adds much to him as a champion. The burn is pretty minimal compared to his Passive, and i think him having that extra armor and HP is a big deal in early game skirmishes.

I agree he is somewhat summonder dependant lategame, but it also kind of depends on what your teamcomp is. If you have a Shyvana top with an Ori Middle, his flash CD doesn't mean much. But if Darius is the main initiator, then yeah it is a big deal. That being said, if Darius is the main initiator on your team you done goofed regardless... A big flaw for him sure, but considering half the junglers nowadays aren't the main initiator I dont think it is a real nail in the coffin.

I want to play him in some more Ranked 5s though before I really decide how much I like him. But as of now, I have really really good vibes.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 05:17:29
July 10 2014 05:16 GMT
#983
On July 10 2014 13:41 killerdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 13:29 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:27 killerdog wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:23 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:19 killerdog wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:14 iCanada wrote:
Quick question...

Why the hell dont top laners build Ancient Golem?

That HP multiplication so strong. WIth 2 tank items (GOlem + Omen / SV /BV / Sunfire ) you are retardedly tanky... and GOlem is retardedly cheap.

?

Why pay 2k gold for 200 hp, when you could pay 1k gold for 380 hp, and have the potential to upgrade it into something actually useful later on o.0

I feel like I'm missing something here

Because bonus hp from ancient golem ends up giving like 400 bonus health once you get a couple of items. It's a pretty nice buy for top laners after they get 3 defensive items.

I remembered about that as soon as i hit post, but it's still kinda crappy :p

you need at least 520 bonus health (not including the health from the golem) to even break even with what just another giants belt would give you. Maybe it could let you get an early kindlegem on hp building tank tops, then finish golem after like 2-3 other tank items though. maybe nasus or mundo or something~

Don't forget AG gives ward too, along with ability to farm jungle.

But you're literally paying 1k gold extra for a bad sightstone and 20 armour. For perspective, manually keeping the lane warded for 8 minutes (how long do you expect laning to continue after you already finished 2 items) would cost 150 gold, with proper trinket use.

Obv you can't go golem first without getting wrecked in any reasonable matchup, so you won't be getting the jungle farming advantage until you're ~6k into your build. (First item you build + pots + interim wards + boots etc) So that benefit is only worth it if you expect to be long term afk farming jungle camps, after that point in the game. You're also going to be straight up weaker in lane than going a conventional build, as randuins/sunfire + giants belt + cloth armour is just straight up the same in trades, for 700 gold less.

If you have some specific situation where you can freely build double tank items, and expect to be split pushing (with plenty of chances to farm jungle) through the mid game, and don't need mr in your first 2 items, then sure it could work, but those are pretty narrow parameters

I'm just saying, after first 3 defensive item, it's a nice 4th defensive item, that's extremely cheap and offer utility. Maybe not the most slot efficient 4th item, but 2k for like 650hp, and 20 armor and 10% cdr, that's insanely cost efficient.

On July 10 2014 14:04 Slusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 13:14 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:11 Sufficiency wrote:
His animation was only bad at release.

I played him yesterday. Both his melee and ranged animation in early levels felt really clunky. His spell animation for his q and e in melee also have that clunky feel too.


holy shit release Jayce when you would switch stance the "empowered" auto could be cancelled if you issued a move command up to a full second after the attack command it was so awful

I also played Jungle Darius just the other day, I don't think he's that great because late game he's pretty summoner reliant but he is so much fun. that said I think SotEL is a great one damage wonder on him, Go lizard into full tank, mabyyyyyye a brutalizer if you get really far ahead in levels, but mostly lizard into tank.

You see, i had less issues with release jayce, but that was because you Q-E'd the opponent in melee form, and they were forced to leave lane, so no pressure farming was pretty nice. :D
liftlift > tsm
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
July 10 2014 05:22 GMT
#984
On July 10 2014 14:13 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 13:10 wei2coolman wrote:
On the mention of jayce. Is it just me or he's got a terrible attack animation?

I think it's only his empowered attack is bad. His ranged projectile is very fast, and his windup isn't terrible either. Melee form doesn't feel any worse than most other champs.

I think Jayce's animation is backloaded in melee form meaning he can't auto cancel or else the damage doesn't go through. Most new melees don't have this problem.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 05:34:41
July 10 2014 05:32 GMT
#985
On July 10 2014 13:58 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 13:43 killerdog wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:41 Gahlo wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:26 iCanada wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:19 killerdog wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:14 iCanada wrote:
Quick question...

Why the hell dont top laners build Ancient Golem?

That HP multiplication so strong. WIth 2 tank items (GOlem + Omen / SV /BV / Sunfire ) you are retardedly tanky... and GOlem is retardedly cheap.

?

Why pay 2k gold for 200 hp, when you could pay 1k gold for 380 hp, and have the potential to upgrade it into something actually useful later on o.0

I feel like I'm missing something here


I never said buy it first item. Rushing it would be awful. But as a second or third tank item it is cheap and very very cost effective, imo. The ward is invaluable, and it allows you to take golems really safely.

You can value the ward.
It's 475.
It's a tier 3 trinket.

Are you implying that you'd want to pay 475 gold for a t3 trinket, before even finishing your first item in top lane? (assuming you were allowed to of course.)

edit: misread what you wrote slightly, but the point still stands. A ward every 180 seconds is not worth 475 gold to a top laner at that point in the game, t3 trinkets (especially yellows) are definitely not cost effecient until you're far into your build and have nothing else to buy.

Pls read what I'm responding to for context.

Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 13:26 iCanada wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:19 killerdog wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:14 iCanada wrote:
Quick question...

Why the hell dont top laners build Ancient Golem?

That HP multiplication so strong. WIth 2 tank items (GOlem + Omen / SV /BV / Sunfire ) you are retardedly tanky... and GOlem is retardedly cheap.

?

Why pay 2k gold for 200 hp, when you could pay 1k gold for 380 hp, and have the potential to upgrade it into something actually useful later on o.0

I feel like I'm missing something here


I never said buy it first item. Rushing it would be awful. But as a second or third tank item it is cheap and very very cost effective, imo. The ward is invaluable, and it allows you to take golems really safely.

I did, hence the edit. I'm just saying you can't compare the "cost" of a lategame luxury item to the gold effectiveness of a 2nd or 3rd buy laning item at all.

On a separate note, which are the go-to mid champs right now? I've just got back from a month and a bit away from my main computer, so all the mechanics are screwed anyway, + most of my pool is all weak right now. Figure I might as well pick up a new champ or two to re-warm up with.

Yasuo seems perma banned still, so maybe picking up tf again (since assassins seem so out of meta now.) Or learning kassadin?
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 06:01:17
July 10 2014 05:59 GMT
#986
tf, syndra, ori, yasuo are probly top 4 kinda lulu honorable mention but she gets played top equally as much.

oh I somehow forgot Ziggs, I guess that means ori is #5 ish
Carrilord has arrived.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 06:35:08
July 10 2014 06:35 GMT
#987
For anybody who's not watching TI4/checking the dota forum, so far there have been 76 different picks in 36 games. I don't think we've seen 76 picks across NA EU and OGN, which has more than 5x the games played.

Please Riot, tell me more about how a more complex ban phase reduces variety.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
July 10 2014 06:44 GMT
#988
On July 10 2014 14:59 Slusher wrote:
tf, syndra, ori, yasuo are probly top 4 kinda lulu honorable mention but she gets played top equally as much.

oh I somehow forgot Ziggs, I guess that means ori is #5 ish

Yall forgetting Kassadin?
Freeeeeeedom
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 06:48:17
July 10 2014 06:48 GMT
#989
Kassadin isn't a real champion in this game unless someone zones out during bans
Carrilord has arrived.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 10 2014 06:52 GMT
#990
On July 10 2014 15:35 Amui wrote:
For anybody who's not watching TI4/checking the dota forum, so far there have been 76 different picks in 36 games. I don't think we've seen 76 picks across NA EU and OGN, which has more than 5x the games played.

Please Riot, tell me more about how a more complex ban phase reduces variety.

Well, you'd have to compare it to 5 upfront bans vs 5 interwoven bans, not 3 upfront bans vs 5 interwoven bans.

Also, it would also help if they'd stop making champions fill the same niche.
liftlift > tsm
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
July 10 2014 06:58 GMT
#991
On July 10 2014 15:52 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 15:35 Amui wrote:
For anybody who's not watching TI4/checking the dota forum, so far there have been 76 different picks in 36 games. I don't think we've seen 76 picks across NA EU and OGN, which has more than 5x the games played.

Please Riot, tell me more about how a more complex ban phase reduces variety.

Well, you'd have to compare it to 5 upfront bans vs 5 interwoven bans, not 3 upfront bans vs 5 interwoven bans.

Also, it would also help if they'd stop making champions fill the same niche.

i think having multiple champions filling the same niche is fine if there are more bans. banning out champs in certain roles forces people to pick other champions to fill said role.

there is literally no reason to not update the pick/ban phase except maybe the fact that it takes up a lot of time, but that's much easier to work around. it can't be worse than the current rotating door of champion picks that we have anyways.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 07:55:14
July 10 2014 07:40 GMT
#992
LoL tournaments have a lot of champion variety too. I recall one reddit thread saying like 70 of them were used but many were only used once and by some minor teams in the group stages.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 10 2014 07:51 GMT
#993
I dont understand quillcoat.....

-Riot wants to buff tanky utility junglers.

-The reason tanky utility junglers arent played is because enemy duelist jungles waltz into your jungle and teabag you early game.

-Riot releases quillcoat and updates golem. An item with absolutely awful early (<65%) gold efficiency which only becomes decent lategame when combined with several other defensive items.

- wat

Am i missing something here?

In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 07:54:55
July 10 2014 07:54 GMT
#994
On July 10 2014 16:51 sob3k wrote:
I dont understand quillcoat.....

-Riot wants to buff tanky utility junglers.

-The reason tanky utility junglers arent played is because enemy duelist jungles waltz into your jungle and teabag you early game.

-Riot releases quillcoat and updates golem. An item with absolutely awful early (<65%) gold efficiency which only becomes decent lategame when combined with several other defensive items.

- wat

Am i missing something here?


It gives you a ward :D and early armor so you can see the duelist and run away
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 10 2014 08:27 GMT
#995
On July 10 2014 13:14 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 13:11 Sufficiency wrote:
His animation was only bad at release.

I played him yesterday. Both his melee and ranged animation in early levels felt really clunky. His spell animation for his q and e in melee also have that clunky feel too.

It's so he can knock you back towards his tower even if you flash on the opposite side of him, for an extra 400 distance knock-back.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
July 10 2014 08:35 GMT
#996
On July 10 2014 16:51 sob3k wrote:
I dont understand quillcoat.....

-Riot wants to buff tanky utility junglers.

-The reason tanky utility junglers arent played is because enemy duelist jungles waltz into your jungle and teabag you early game.

-Riot releases quillcoat and updates golem. An item with absolutely awful early (<65%) gold efficiency which only becomes decent lategame when combined with several other defensive items.

- wat

Am i missing something here?


Yeah, it's a headscratcher why Riot chose to completely rehaul the item. They could have just given it more monster damage on its passive by a lot more and that probably would have solved the problem.
liftlift > tsm
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-10 08:57:03
July 10 2014 08:55 GMT
#997
On July 10 2014 17:27 Alaric wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2014 13:14 wei2coolman wrote:
On July 10 2014 13:11 Sufficiency wrote:
His animation was only bad at release.

I played him yesterday. Both his melee and ranged animation in early levels felt really clunky. His spell animation for his q and e in melee also have that clunky feel too.

It's so he can knock you back towards his tower even if you flash on the opposite side of him, for an extra 400 distance knock-back.

This was fixed.

I can't find it in the league patch notes on Jayce's wiki but it was in one patch. I can still do it to some slow jumps like Trist's W but Jayce will never be able to waste people's flash with melee E again. Haven't been able to do it in ages.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
July 10 2014 08:59 GMT
#998
--- Nuked ---
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
July 10 2014 09:02 GMT
#999
Oh I'm pretty sure it'll keep happening, because it works the same way Poppy's does (unless they significantly shortened the animation, since it's this combined with the "last movement applied takes precedence" rule that "allows" them to override a flash/dash even after they've ended and put you out of range), just not as consistently.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 10 2014 09:11 GMT
#1000
You can waste people's flash with Singed flip.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
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