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On July 09 2014 03:49 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:24 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 03:20 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 02:57 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 02:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 00:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 08 2014 23:44 wei2coolman wrote:On July 08 2014 23:23 JimmiC wrote:
I'm pretty sure riot makes drastic nerfs in the PBE so people can freak out and then they can make their real change and people are like, that's not bad. Where if they made that first people would freak about it. I'm sure this won't go through, just like all the other bonkers nerfs that never went through. It's the fact that they even considered it is hilarious. They have goldfish-tier memory, it's like they forgot what happened to every single fucking champion that got a ranged nerf. well I'm inclined to agree with JimmiC. there's actually been quite a lot of drastic nerfs/buffs that appear on PBE that never actually make it into the game. unless the change is more or less confirmed by a red post, I'd always take extreme changes with a grain of salt. f or example, remember the proposed Pantheon nerfs a few months back on PBE? Those never appeared on live AND they even had Smash given context for them. Yeah, they just stealth nerfed him when they removed the ability to queue up spells during man drop and killed him that way :p people still play him though I was under the impression that nerf made him near unplayable. I haven't been playing much recently, just watching, so I'm probably wrong. do people actually think like that? lead the ult a bit and its almost like you dont need to queue up; they didnt actually nerf his damage or anything literally every champion thats been deemed "unplayable" is still good besides like Poppy or something I guess even Olaf is still usable and not totally awful, glad i dont see him anymore tho bc he was fucking frustrating to play against S2/S# i'm olaf and i'm offended that you think i'm unplayable  anyway he's pretty bad for most players now, it's like when they reworked zed to be more about skill, less about having a scary f'n easy kit or the nerfs to kayle. you get to see who really is good at the champs, or who was just good because of the brokeness Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:20 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 02:57 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 02:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 00:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 08 2014 23:44 wei2coolman wrote:On July 08 2014 23:23 JimmiC wrote:
I'm pretty sure riot makes drastic nerfs in the PBE so people can freak out and then they can make their real change and people are like, that's not bad. Where if they made that first people would freak about it. I'm sure this won't go through, just like all the other bonkers nerfs that never went through. It's the fact that they even considered it is hilarious. They have goldfish-tier memory, it's like they forgot what happened to every single fucking champion that got a ranged nerf. well I'm inclined to agree with JimmiC. there's actually been quite a lot of drastic nerfs/buffs that appear on PBE that never actually make it into the game. unless the change is more or less confirmed by a red post, I'd always take extreme changes with a grain of salt. f or example, remember the proposed Pantheon nerfs a few months back on PBE? Those never appeared on live AND they even had Smash given context for them. Yeah, they just stealth nerfed him when they removed the ability to queue up spells during man drop and killed him that way :p people still play him though I was under the impression that nerf made him near unplayable. I haven't been playing much recently, just watching, so I'm probably wrong. nah just makes it really hard for bad players to execute everything on time
On July 09 2014 03:46 Alaric wrote:
Pantheon ability to gank (especially bot, which was most of his role) and initiate (gives more time to react) has been nerfed pretty hard by this though, and it was one of the main draws of jungle Pantheon. When was the last time you saw a lane Pantheon?
lane pantheon happens a lot in NA still, but thats probably because I only know how to teemo/olaf lol
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On July 09 2014 03:36 Pulimuli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:27 nafta wrote:
Havent seen panth in more than a month.He is pretty meh.Gets useless too fast if you don't snowball hard. Hasn't that always been the case? snowbard hard or become useless lategame?
Yes but when your main way to get kills gets nerfed it is a big deal.Also the meta champs are all pretty good vs him with all the peeling.
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On July 09 2014 03:49 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:24 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 03:20 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 02:57 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 02:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 00:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 08 2014 23:44 wei2coolman wrote:On July 08 2014 23:23 JimmiC wrote:
I'm pretty sure riot makes drastic nerfs in the PBE so people can freak out and then they can make their real change and people are like, that's not bad. Where if they made that first people would freak about it. I'm sure this won't go through, just like all the other bonkers nerfs that never went through. It's the fact that they even considered it is hilarious. They have goldfish-tier memory, it's like they forgot what happened to every single fucking champion that got a ranged nerf. well I'm inclined to agree with JimmiC. there's actually been quite a lot of drastic nerfs/buffs that appear on PBE that never actually make it into the game. unless the change is more or less confirmed by a red post, I'd always take extreme changes with a grain of salt. f or example, remember the proposed Pantheon nerfs a few months back on PBE? Those never appeared on live AND they even had Smash given context for them. Yeah, they just stealth nerfed him when they removed the ability to queue up spells during man drop and killed him that way :p people still play him though I was under the impression that nerf made him near unplayable. I haven't been playing much recently, just watching, so I'm probably wrong. do people actually think like that? lead the ult a bit and its almost like you dont need to queue up; they didnt actually nerf his damage or anything literally every champion thats been deemed "unplayable" is still good besides like Poppy or something I guess even Olaf is still usable and not totally awful, glad i dont see him anymore tho bc he was fucking frustrating to play against S2/S# i'm olaf and i'm offended that you think i'm unplayable anyway he's pretty bad for most players now, it's like when they reworked zed to be more about skill, less about having a scary f'n easy kit or the nerfs to kayle. you get to see who really is good at the champs, or who was just good because of the brokeness Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:20 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 02:57 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 02:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 00:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 08 2014 23:44 wei2coolman wrote:On July 08 2014 23:23 JimmiC wrote:
I'm pretty sure riot makes drastic nerfs in the PBE so people can freak out and then they can make their real change and people are like, that's not bad. Where if they made that first people would freak about it. I'm sure this won't go through, just like all the other bonkers nerfs that never went through. It's the fact that they even considered it is hilarious. They have goldfish-tier memory, it's like they forgot what happened to every single fucking champion that got a ranged nerf. well I'm inclined to agree with JimmiC. there's actually been quite a lot of drastic nerfs/buffs that appear on PBE that never actually make it into the game. unless the change is more or less confirmed by a red post, I'd always take extreme changes with a grain of salt. f or example, remember the proposed Pantheon nerfs a few months back on PBE? Those never appeared on live AND they even had Smash given context for them. Yeah, they just stealth nerfed him when they removed the ability to queue up spells during man drop and killed him that way :p people still play him though I was under the impression that nerf made him near unplayable. I haven't been playing much recently, just watching, so I'm probably wrong. nah just makes it really hard for bad players to execute everything on time
Mr. Sauce, you still haven't explained why Olaf is harder now, and not just straight up suboptimal.
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On July 09 2014 03:49 GreggSauce wrote:you get to see who really is good at the champs, or who was just good because of the brokeness Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:20 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 02:57 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 02:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 00:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 08 2014 23:44 wei2coolman wrote:On July 08 2014 23:23 JimmiC wrote:
I'm pretty sure riot makes drastic nerfs in the PBE so people can freak out and then they can make their real change and people are like, that's not bad. Where if they made that first people would freak about it. I'm sure this won't go through, just like all the other bonkers nerfs that never went through. It's the fact that they even considered it is hilarious. They have goldfish-tier memory, it's like they forgot what happened to every single fucking champion that got a ranged nerf. well I'm inclined to agree with JimmiC. there's actually been quite a lot of drastic nerfs/buffs that appear on PBE that never actually make it into the game. unless the change is more or less confirmed by a red post, I'd always take extreme changes with a grain of salt. f or example, remember the proposed Pantheon nerfs a few months back on PBE? Those never appeared on live AND they even had Smash given context for them. Yeah, they just stealth nerfed him when they removed the ability to queue up spells during man drop and killed him that way :p people still play him though I was under the impression that nerf made him near unplayable. I haven't been playing much recently, just watching, so I'm probably wrong. nah just makes it really hard for bad players to execute everything on time
Just... no. Pantheon wasn't broken, he still required some positioning (his ult isn't instant, if you don't "lead" enough most dashes can escape the "queueing range", if you lead too much you're still surrounding them in a 3v2 but you lose the initiative as they can choose which side to turn on).
On the contrary, there's no room to "execute on time" currently since you can't queue anything, you can only wait for the fall animation to play out (when Pantheon appears he can't jump as soon as he hits the ground, he stands still for a few frames) then start moving.
I'm not sure why you're trying to disparage people when Pantheon was never (or at least not since his pre-s1 remake, didn't play at the time) a case of "broken low skill floor easily abusable".
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I remember when going tear on top lane pantheon was a thing, or maybe that was just in the recommended item builds way back in s1
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Riot used to recommend tear for a lot of champs, I remember MF bot always building Manamune lol
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On July 09 2014 04:34 Nos- wrote:
I remember when going tear on top lane pantheon was a thing, or maybe that was just in the recommended item builds way back in s1
i dont think tear top pantheon was ever a thing
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It worked mid before Tear nerf, Loci did that and advocated using TP too (he'd TP bot at level 2-3 if a fight broke out or the enemy lane pushed too hard because of how strong Panth is at these levels). His build relied on leveling Q before 6 for lane-bullying, then maxing E to get better waveclear and be able to push and roam around the map more easily. Once Jayce single-handedly caused Tear to get its charge time destroyed (Manamune was buffed in that regard but considering its price and how Panth would rather use the gold on brutaliser or tiamat parts it was still a huge net nerf) it wasn't doable anymore because you'd charge it too slowly, though.
Damn the new PBE patch removes Lucian's E cost entirely. Yeah, my line of reasoning definitely clashes with Riot's.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 09 2014 03:32 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:27 nafta wrote:
Havent seen panth in more than a month.He is pretty meh.Gets useless too fast if you don't snowball hard. so because they nerfed his ult, didnt touch his damage he isnt gonna snowball as hard? l0l. item changes would probably be a bigger impact unplayable is way too strong of a word imo.
Good thing I only said "near unplayable" hue.
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On July 09 2014 04:41 Alaric wrote:
It worked mid before Tear nerf, Loci did that and advocated using TP too (he'd TP bot at level 2-3 if a fight broke out or the enemy lane pushed too hard because of how strong Panth is at these levels). His build relied on leveling Q before 6 for lane-bullying, then maxing E to get better waveclear and be able to push and roam around the map more easily. Once Jayce single-handedly caused Tear to get its charge time destroyed (Manamune was buffed in that regard but considering its price and how Panth would rather use the gold on brutaliser or tiamat parts it was still a huge net nerf) it wasn't doable anymore because you'd charge it too slowly, though.
Damn the new PBE patch removes Lucian's E cost entirely. Yeah, my line of reasoning definitely clashes with Riot's.
Well when you take a dump on a champ you got to give him some light so he doesn't lose all hope.
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On July 09 2014 02:47 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 00:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 08 2014 23:44 wei2coolman wrote:On July 08 2014 23:23 JimmiC wrote:
I'm pretty sure riot makes drastic nerfs in the PBE so people can freak out and then they can make their real change and people are like, that's not bad. Where if they made that first people would freak about it. I'm sure this won't go through, just like all the other bonkers nerfs that never went through. It's the fact that they even considered it is hilarious. They have goldfish-tier memory, it's like they forgot what happened to every single fucking champion that got a ranged nerf. well I'm inclined to agree with JimmiC. there's actually been quite a lot of drastic nerfs/buffs that appear on PBE that never actually make it into the game. unless the change is more or less confirmed by a red post, I'd always take extreme changes with a grain of salt. f or example, remember the proposed Pantheon nerfs a few months back on PBE? Those never appeared on live AND they even had Smash given context for them. Yeah, they just stealth nerfed him when they removed the ability to queue up spells during man drop and killed him that way :p
There were W nerfs and further ult nerfs on PBE for a few weeks. IIRC, W was getting lower stun duration that scales with level and his ult was losing range at early levels, but getting faster channel/cast time.
Neither went through.
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On July 09 2014 05:18 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 04:41 Alaric wrote:
It worked mid before Tear nerf, Loci did that and advocated using TP too (he'd TP bot at level 2-3 if a fight broke out or the enemy lane pushed too hard because of how strong Panth is at these levels). His build relied on leveling Q before 6 for lane-bullying, then maxing E to get better waveclear and be able to push and roam around the map more easily. Once Jayce single-handedly caused Tear to get its charge time destroyed (Manamune was buffed in that regard but considering its price and how Panth would rather use the gold on brutaliser or tiamat parts it was still a huge net nerf) it wasn't doable anymore because you'd charge it too slowly, though.
Damn the new PBE patch removes Lucian's E cost entirely. Yeah, my line of reasoning definitely clashes with Riot's. Well when you take a dump on a champ you got to give him some light so he doesn't lose all hope.
u cant buff him without reworking his skillset otherwise he will just wreck mid or top with braindead Q spam
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On July 09 2014 04:40 ticklishmusic wrote:
Riot used to recommend tear for a lot of champs, I remember MF bot always building Manamune lol
implying it doesnt anymore.
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So apparently Lucian's E on PBE gets its cd reduced per passive hit. So, if you land both passive hits on an enemy champion, his E cooldown gets reduced by 4 seconds. So if you weave your abilities and autoattacks well, his E is potentially the same or lower cooldown as Vayne's tumble. Lucian's damage output will also be pretty insane with constant passive activations.
Personally don't think this will make up for losing 50 autoattack range, but sounds pretty interesting regardless.
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On July 09 2014 04:16 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:49 GreggSauce wrote:you get to see who really is good at the champs, or who was just good because of the brokeness On July 09 2014 03:20 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 02:57 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 02:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 00:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 08 2014 23:44 wei2coolman wrote:On July 08 2014 23:23 JimmiC wrote:
I'm pretty sure riot makes drastic nerfs in the PBE so people can freak out and then they can make their real change and people are like, that's not bad. Where if they made that first people would freak about it. I'm sure this won't go through, just like all the other bonkers nerfs that never went through. It's the fact that they even considered it is hilarious. They have goldfish-tier memory, it's like they forgot what happened to every single fucking champion that got a ranged nerf. well I'm inclined to agree with JimmiC. there's actually been quite a lot of drastic nerfs/buffs that appear on PBE that never actually make it into the game. unless the change is more or less confirmed by a red post, I'd always take extreme changes with a grain of salt. f or example, remember the proposed Pantheon nerfs a few months back on PBE? Those never appeared on live AND they even had Smash given context for them. Yeah, they just stealth nerfed him when they removed the ability to queue up spells during man drop and killed him that way :p people still play him though I was under the impression that nerf made him near unplayable. I haven't been playing much recently, just watching, so I'm probably wrong. nah just makes it really hard for bad players to execute everything on time Just... no. Pantheon wasn't broken, he still required some positioning (his ult isn't instant, if you don't "lead" enough most dashes can escape the "queueing range", if you lead too much you're still surrounding them in a 3v2 but you lose the initiative as they can choose which side to turn on). On the contrary, there's no room to "execute on time" currently since you can't queue anything, you can only wait for the fall animation to play out (when Pantheon appears he can't jump as soon as he hits the ground, he stands still for a few frames) then start moving. I'm not sure why you're trying to disparage people when Pantheon was never (or at least not since his pre-s1 remake, didn't play at the time) a case of "broken low skill floor easily abusable".
You're wrong, that mechanic wasn't supposed to even be a part of his kit, and it made a landed ult basically instant death with no skill related to actually chaining everything together. yes playing pantheon before the ult, and living after the ult, as well as lining up the ult all required skill but that isn't what we're discussing here is it?
On July 09 2014 05:30 Ryuu314 wrote:
So apparently Lucian's E on PBE gets its cd reduced per passive hit. So, if you land both passive hits on an enemy champion, his E cooldown gets reduced by 4 seconds. So if you weave your abilities and autoattacks well, his E is potentially the same or lower cooldown as Vayne's tumble. Lucian's damage output will also be pretty insane with constant passive activations.
Personally don't think this will make up for losing 50 autoattack range, but sounds pretty interesting regardless.
i think its good, lucian should've never been in the role he was in of doing everything well, it just makes someone like quinn seem sad. this change will raise his skillcap and lower his ability to win all trades. very much like vayne, pretty sure they should revert his passive or make his Q stronger now though
On July 09 2014 04:13 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:49 GreggSauce wrote:On July 09 2014 03:24 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 03:20 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 02:57 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 02:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 00:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 08 2014 23:44 wei2coolman wrote:On July 08 2014 23:23 JimmiC wrote:
I'm pretty sure riot makes drastic nerfs in the PBE so people can freak out and then they can make their real change and people are like, that's not bad. Where if they made that first people would freak about it. I'm sure this won't go through, just like all the other bonkers nerfs that never went through. It's the fact that they even considered it is hilarious. They have goldfish-tier memory, it's like they forgot what happened to every single fucking champion that got a ranged nerf. well I'm inclined to agree with JimmiC. there's actually been quite a lot of drastic nerfs/buffs that appear on PBE that never actually make it into the game. unless the change is more or less confirmed by a red post, I'd always take extreme changes with a grain of salt. f or example, remember the proposed Pantheon nerfs a few months back on PBE? Those never appeared on live AND they even had Smash given context for them. Yeah, they just stealth nerfed him when they removed the ability to queue up spells during man drop and killed him that way :p people still play him though I was under the impression that nerf made him near unplayable. I haven't been playing much recently, just watching, so I'm probably wrong. do people actually think like that? lead the ult a bit and its almost like you dont need to queue up; they didnt actually nerf his damage or anything literally every champion thats been deemed "unplayable" is still good besides like Poppy or something I guess even Olaf is still usable and not totally awful, glad i dont see him anymore tho bc he was fucking frustrating to play against S2/S# i'm olaf and i'm offended that you think i'm unplayable anyway he's pretty bad for most players now, it's like when they reworked zed to be more about skill, less about having a scary f'n easy kit or the nerfs to kayle. you get to see who really is good at the champs, or who was just good because of the brokeness On July 09 2014 03:20 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 02:57 arb wrote:On July 09 2014 02:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 09 2014 00:39 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 08 2014 23:44 wei2coolman wrote:On July 08 2014 23:23 JimmiC wrote:
I'm pretty sure riot makes drastic nerfs in the PBE so people can freak out and then they can make their real change and people are like, that's not bad. Where if they made that first people would freak about it. I'm sure this won't go through, just like all the other bonkers nerfs that never went through. It's the fact that they even considered it is hilarious. They have goldfish-tier memory, it's like they forgot what happened to every single fucking champion that got a ranged nerf. well I'm inclined to agree with JimmiC. there's actually been quite a lot of drastic nerfs/buffs that appear on PBE that never actually make it into the game. unless the change is more or less confirmed by a red post, I'd always take extreme changes with a grain of salt. f or example, remember the proposed Pantheon nerfs a few months back on PBE? Those never appeared on live AND they even had Smash given context for them. Yeah, they just stealth nerfed him when they removed the ability to queue up spells during man drop and killed him that way :p people still play him though I was under the impression that nerf made him near unplayable. I haven't been playing much recently, just watching, so I'm probably wrong. nah just makes it really hard for bad players to execute everything on time Mr. Sauce, you still haven't explained why Olaf is harder now, and not just straight up suboptimal.
I feel like you worded that really poorly. So basically you're saying, why he isn't a good pick now, instead of being a downright horrid "wtf why you pick him" pick?
I've said this in the olaf strategy, but he does very well if there are 2+ tanks on the enemy team because no matter how tanky they get it doesn't matter, and that further synergizes with botrk being able to take even more current health from a target. I still think he could use a slight buff in numbers, but if you run cdr runes, and go at least botrk you will be able to melt any tanks that may be pesky for your squishies.
go find a friend that plays shyvana to see what i'm talking about, if you can time your ult right (i'm still working on it) you can kill a riven,renekton,nasus, garen before they can even react since they all have strong ways to disengage from fights usually. As other people have said, he doesn't really have any utility, and in a poke comp, or tower seige he's no that great. If you can have a team that takes objectives, or stays together while you split you can have a lot of success with him.
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... so "before when you ulted people where dead and you didn't need good execution to chain his spells". I said "He actually required some minor timing to hit it previously, but because he's frozen in place now there's even less execution involved in "comboing"." and you replied "no you're wrong, it was noskill and people died, not it needs execution", but don't say how.
So I'm wondering: how does Pantheon require more execution now that they've removed the ability for him to actually do stuff during his ult and as such is set in the timing for casting his combo post-ult?
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On July 09 2014 05:30 Ryuu314 wrote:
So apparently Lucian's E on PBE gets its cd reduced per passive hit. So, if you land both passive hits on an enemy champion, his E cooldown gets reduced by 4 seconds. So if you weave your abilities and autoattacks well, his E is potentially the same or lower cooldown as Vayne's tumble. Lucian's damage output will also be pretty insane with constant passive activations.
Personally don't think this will make up for losing 50 autoattack range, but sounds pretty interesting regardless.
Newest PBE update has made E straight up free so a free dash every 4 seconds assuming passive lands, I am now going to be one salty as fuck top laner if this lucian gets out of lane fine lol.
When I think about it new E might actually be decent compensation for range loss if he can get out lane fine.
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lucian's E at rank 5 was always free
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On July 09 2014 05:56 Fusilero wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 05:30 Ryuu314 wrote:
So apparently Lucian's E on PBE gets its cd reduced per passive hit. So, if you land both passive hits on an enemy champion, his E cooldown gets reduced by 4 seconds. So if you weave your abilities and autoattacks well, his E is potentially the same or lower cooldown as Vayne's tumble. Lucian's damage output will also be pretty insane with constant passive activations.
Personally don't think this will make up for losing 50 autoattack range, but sounds pretty interesting regardless. Newest PBE update has made E straight up free so a free dash every 4 seconds assuming passive lands, I am now going to be one salty as fuck top laner if this lucian gets out of lane fine lol. When I think about it new E might actually be decent compensation for range loss if he can get out lane fine.
It adds to the entire Matrix feel which is nice, but the problem is that if he gets locked down he still gets popped instantly. He feels like Graves where if you had blue you could be constantly quickdrawing, but without defensive steroids/ smokescreen Lucian seems a little iffy.
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On July 09 2014 06:03 Nos- wrote:
lucian's E at rank 5 was always free
wow i literally did not notice his e actually goes down in mana cost
LOL WTF
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EPT
