EPT[Patch 4.10] Nidalee/Skarner Rework General Discussion - P…
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 26 2014 01:50 Nos- wrote: Did Riot actually state that about dota's ban system? That is more than half way retarded thinking. This was months ago, so internal policy could well have changed, but nothing public about it has changed. Im googling but i can't find the page. its being drowned out by a bunch of comments from more recent calls for it, and only 1 riot post saying that the guy doesn't play or watch dota so he doesn't know anything. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 26 2014 01:48 obesechicken13 wrote: My argument is that no such champion exists given Riot's speed at nerfing things. Like there's never been a champion so OP that Froggen's that champ would be better than Froggen on Anivia. That is pretty dubious, considering he rarely gets that ban, and still rarely played the bird. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 26 2014 01:54 PrinceXizor wrote: This was months ago, so internal policy could well have changed, but nothing public about it has changed. Im googling but i can't find the page. its being drowned out by a bunch of comments from more recent calls for it, and only 1 riot post saying that the guy doesn't play or watch dota so he doesn't know anything. It's more like years than months. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 26 2014 02:03 cLutZ wrote: That is pretty dubious, considering he rarely gets that ban, and still rarely played the bird. Hmm. Maybe he's out of practice due to the threat of bans then. Dunno. They could limit the number of times a champion can be picked in a set but that's kind of artificial. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
shit has it been that long? i'd hope its changed since then, though nothings come of a change in opinion. I remember originally getting linked to it from TL. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On June 26 2014 02:05 obesechicken13 wrote: Hmm. Maybe he's out of practice due to the threat of bans then. Dunno. They could limit the number of times a champion can be picked in a set but that's kind of artificial. Maybe its because sometimes there are better champions for the draft/meta ("OP"s) for Froggen other than Froggen on Anivia | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 26 2014 02:11 xes wrote: Maybe its because sometimes there are better champions for the draft/meta ("OP"s) for Froggen other than Froggen on Anivia The rate of signature bans/picks is just far less than obesechicken makes it out to be. It's just simply not the case that people are target-banning that often unless the champ being banned was already a high priority anyway. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 26 2014 02:12 TheYango wrote: Zileas made his post about it in late 2012--its the first result if you google "interwoven bans". The rate of signature bans/picks is just far less than obesechicken makes it out to be. It's just simply not the case that people are target-banning that often unless the champ being banned was already a high priority anyway. oh no wonder it sounded so dumb. I dislike that man being in charge of anything. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On June 26 2014 02:12 TheYango wrote: Zileas made his post about it in late 2012--its the first result if you google "interwoven bans". The rate of signature bans/picks is just far less than obesechicken makes it out to be. It's just simply not the case that people are target-banning that often unless the champ being banned was already a high priority anyway. The game has also evolved to a point where there are almost no signature champions in LCS because being exceptionally good at something isn't good enough to pull the easy consistent wins. | ||
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OhTwoMise
United States164 Posts
On June 26 2014 02:26 xes wrote: The game has also evolved to a point where there are almost no signature champions in LCS because being exceptionally good at something isn't good enough to pull the easy consistent wins. I think that's partially because a lot of players are specializing in the high priority champions anyway and partially because a lot of would-be signature champions are essentially lesser versions of their oft-banned counterparts. Incidentally, I think this is also a decently large factor in why there isn't a hell of a lot of innovation. In addition to all of the balance and tournament structure and practice time issues, the payoff in terms of winning even the single game for which your strategy works isn't even that large. If your opponents can already deal with, say, (pre-nerf) Leblanc at a reasonable level, there is an entire class of lesser AP assassins that that skillset essentially nullifies. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4134 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 26 2014 02:47 M2 wrote: What is the advantage of GA over Zhonya? Regardless of the the champ. GA is a bit cheaper which is smth, but outside of that it doesnt provide some amazing stats worth having it without the passive. Zhonya on the other hand has an active similar to GA passive coming every 90 sec. Way more useful than GA if you ask me. I started building Zhonya on all champs, adc, ad top, ad mid, I don;t care, cant see any drawback in comparison with the GA. Of course sometimes I may miss my active but still it pays off much more than GA's passive that comes what? like in 5 minutes or more I guess. GA offers a huge chunk of mr which prevents you from getting blown up making your lifesteal more useful. Not to mention makes shields and heals more effective. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On June 26 2014 02:47 M2 wrote: What is the advantage of GA over Zhonya? Regardless of the the champ. GA is a bit cheaper which is smth, but outside of that it doesnt provide some amazing stats worth having it without the passive. Zhonya on the other hand has an active similar to GA passive coming every 90 sec. Way more useful than GA if you ask me. I started building Zhonya on all champs, adc, ad top, ad mid, I don;t care, cant see any drawback in comparison with the GA. Of course sometimes I may miss my active but still it pays off much more than GA's passive that comes what? like in 5 minutes or more I guess. 70% of the cost of Zhonya's is in AP. If you're not using that AP then you could make a similar argument of "why not build Hextech Revolver on Riven because 70% of that cost is in AP too and who cares about cost?" | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4134 Posts
On June 26 2014 02:56 xes wrote: 70% of the cost of Zhonya's is in AP. If you're not using that AP then you could make a similar argument of "why not build Hextech Revolver on Riven because 70% of that cost is in AP too and who cares about cost?" Example is bad coz there are just superior choices for Riven for the particular goal. Actually there is no similar case in Lol for a relevant comparison. The special thing here is that both of these items are build for their passive/active, these items are practically their passive/active (Zhonya is also good as an ap item though, but GA sucks for its defensive stats, thats what I think at least) | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Against poke or consistent damage output it has less value because you're still very susceptible to get finished off once you revive or, in the case of poke, they didn't pay anything to pop it. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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parkufarku
882 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 26 2014 01:41 zer0das wrote: I guess it depends on what audience you're targeting. I think a lot of people here would gladly sacrifice 3-4 more minutes for having something more strategic. The League audience as a whole? Eh... probably less likely. I think people would probably get acclimated with it and enjoy it once they realized it allows for much more specialized picks and team comps, even if there was some initial resistance. I doubt Riot would want to take the risk though, which is a shame. There isn't really much of a reason to believe that four or five bans would make the pick phase more strategic. At the very least interwoven bans make strategies which have interlocking components more difficult to pull off. This is because as soon as one piece of the component is shown all viable compliments can be banned out by the enemy team. Team compositions which survive will have to be "more generic" because more specific compositions can be removed in the middle of the pick phase. Only compositions which have many possible picks in each position would be reasonably viable. Edit: that is, an interwoven ban system is more likely to reduce the reasonable champion pool than increase it. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 26 2014 03:13 Goumindong wrote: There isn't really much of a reason to believe that four or five bans would make the pick phase more strategic. At the very least interwoven bans make strategies which have interlocking components more difficult to pull off. This is because as soon as one piece of the component is shown all viable compliments can be banned out by the enemy team. Team compositions which survive will have to be "more generic" because more specific compositions can be removed in the middle of the pick phase. Only compositions which have many possible picks in each position would be reasonably viable. this hasn't been shown to be true in dota, why would it suddenly become fact in league. | ||
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