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Alright, we're going to call it a day with all the Thorin drama, guys. I figured if it was about SI, onGamers, TSM, etc, it had some relevance to League but somehow you guys managed to devolve the discussion into an issue about race of all things.
Enough is enough. Let's move along now.
-NeoIllusions |
On June 12 2014 11:15 Kinie wrote:
Is there any way to educate/convince people in solo Q to buy wards (or sightstone on support)?
Like I just got done with a really frustrating game and the main reason we lost was due to lack of vision, even though I was doing all I could to ward and sweep. The team itself was ok, but only me and the ADC were warding. And even after I called the support out on no sightstone he continued to not get it (or even use his trinket ward) and we just slowly lost vision, then control of dragon/baron, then the game due to them being like 8k gold ahead of us at 30 minute mark.
I try to be logical about it to them (vision wins games, objectives > kills, picks lead to objectives, etc.), and even ask them to throw it down somewhere even if it isn't in an ideal location. But no one else listened.
play jungle lee, build your own sighstone - problem SOLVED!
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On June 12 2014 11:15 Kinie wrote:
Is there any way to educate/convince people in solo Q to buy wards (or sightstone on support)?
Like I just got done with a really frustrating game and the main reason we lost was due to lack of vision, even though I was doing all I could to ward and sweep. The team itself was ok, but only me and the ADC were warding. And even after I called the support out on no sightstone he continued to not get it (or even use his trinket ward) and we just slowly lost vision, then control of dragon/baron, then the game due to them being like 8k gold ahead of us at 30 minute mark.
I try to be logical about it to them (vision wins games, objectives > kills, picks lead to objectives, etc.), and even ask them to throw it down somewhere even if it isn't in an ideal location. But no one else listened.
The answer is to buy them yourself until you get to an ELO where people buy wards.
Frankly given how big vision is in the current meta, i am surprised that many tanks aren't building sightstone as their final tank item so they can hold onto trinkets for pinks/sweeper
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On June 12 2014 11:28 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 11:15 Kinie wrote:
Is there any way to educate/convince people in solo Q to buy wards (or sightstone on support)?
Like I just got done with a really frustrating game and the main reason we lost was due to lack of vision, even though I was doing all I could to ward and sweep. The team itself was ok, but only me and the ADC were warding. And even after I called the support out on no sightstone he continued to not get it (or even use his trinket ward) and we just slowly lost vision, then control of dragon/baron, then the game due to them being like 8k gold ahead of us at 30 minute mark.
I try to be logical about it to them (vision wins games, objectives > kills, picks lead to objectives, etc.), and even ask them to throw it down somewhere even if it isn't in an ideal location. But no one else listened. The answer is to buy them yourself until you get to an ELO where people buy wards. Frankly given how big vision is in the current meta, i am surprised that many tanks aren't building sightstone as their final tank item so they can hold onto trinkets for pinks/sweeper
why the hell would they need to get sighstone as their last item it's a glorified paper weight for a tank
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On June 12 2014 11:15 Kinie wrote:
Is there any way to educate/convince people in solo Q to buy wards (or sightstone on support)?
Like I just got done with a really frustrating game and the main reason we lost was due to lack of vision, even though I was doing all I could to ward and sweep. The team itself was ok, but only me and the ADC were warding. And even after I called the support out on no sightstone he continued to not get it (or even use his trinket ward) and we just slowly lost vision, then control of dragon/baron, then the game due to them being like 8k gold ahead of us at 30 minute mark.
I try to be logical about it to them (vision wins games, objectives > kills, picks lead to objectives, etc.), and even ask them to throw it down somewhere even if it isn't in an ideal location. But no one else listened.
You can't educate anybody. Even really good advice, like sometimes i say i want to push out bot to hit lvl 2 first, is usually met with severe anger by those who don't want to know and silence by those who already do. Just sit back and lead by example is the only way to go while maintaining your sanity. If you MUST say something, say it nicely in the post game lobby.
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On June 12 2014 11:32 Velocirapture wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 11:15 Kinie wrote:
Is there any way to educate/convince people in solo Q to buy wards (or sightstone on support)?
Like I just got done with a really frustrating game and the main reason we lost was due to lack of vision, even though I was doing all I could to ward and sweep. The team itself was ok, but only me and the ADC were warding. And even after I called the support out on no sightstone he continued to not get it (or even use his trinket ward) and we just slowly lost vision, then control of dragon/baron, then the game due to them being like 8k gold ahead of us at 30 minute mark.
I try to be logical about it to them (vision wins games, objectives > kills, picks lead to objectives, etc.), and even ask them to throw it down somewhere even if it isn't in an ideal location. But no one else listened. You can't educate anybody. Even really good advice, like sometimes i say i want to push out bot to hit lvl 2 first, is usually met with severe anger by those who don't want to know and silence by those who already do. Just sit back and lead by example is the only way to go while maintaining your sanity. If you MUST say something, say it nicely in the post game lobby.
I think it's fine to say something like "we need wards" if you're not targeting anyone. Eg. "Nami, buy more wards"
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On June 12 2014 11:31 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 11:28 Goumindong wrote:On June 12 2014 11:15 Kinie wrote:
Is there any way to educate/convince people in solo Q to buy wards (or sightstone on support)?
Like I just got done with a really frustrating game and the main reason we lost was due to lack of vision, even though I was doing all I could to ward and sweep. The team itself was ok, but only me and the ADC were warding. And even after I called the support out on no sightstone he continued to not get it (or even use his trinket ward) and we just slowly lost vision, then control of dragon/baron, then the game due to them being like 8k gold ahead of us at 30 minute mark.
I try to be logical about it to them (vision wins games, objectives > kills, picks lead to objectives, etc.), and even ask them to throw it down somewhere even if it isn't in an ideal location. But no one else listened. The answer is to buy them yourself until you get to an ELO where people buy wards. Frankly given how big vision is in the current meta, i am surprised that many tanks aren't building sightstone as their final tank item so they can hold onto trinkets for pinks/sweeper why the hell would they need to get sighstone as their last item it's a glorified paper weight for a tank
Well if you have zero slots left then you have zero slots to buy wards.
And if you have zero slots for wards then you're either using your trinket (which you should be using to sweep) or you are limited to 3 wards. So you put the 400 HP item on the guy who is best at getting close to unscouted bushes and best at getting more HP items. The alternate is to be short on wards
Sure a sightstone isn't that great of a tank item, its only got 400 HP on it. But its not that great of a tank item, or damage item, or cdr item for a support either, yet they still spend the money on it, even if they're just as much of a tank as the top lane, and even if they get just as much money as the top lane due to gold generation items (and other bonus gold).
I mean why should I, as Janna, buy a worthless ward machine when I could instead buy AP. Why doesn't the guy who buys HP buy the HP+Ward machine?
A: Because you fucking need wards
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Because it'll make so you just lose fights.
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On June 12 2014 08:23 Shelke14 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 06:48 GolemMadness wrote:
I could see Zhonya's being a situational item on ADC's, like if you're someone like Ezreal and your GA's been popped and the active would be more useful than banshee's. It's definitely not something that you just get every game as your fourth item, though. But you aren't even an ADC if you have a GA plus Zhonya's though. Along with boots you only have three offensive items now.
After your GA pops, you sell it.
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On June 12 2014 11:48 GolemMadness wrote:
Because it'll make so you just lose fights.
So does not having vision
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yo Sufficiency, do you have the number of Urgot game in Seaon 4?
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On June 12 2014 11:55 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 11:48 GolemMadness wrote:
Because it'll make so you just lose fights. So does not having vision
so your support and jungle can get wards not your top laner what?
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If your support has sightstone and 3 people stick with yellow trinket, that's 6 wards. That's still a reasonable amount of vision.
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On June 12 2014 12:00 GolemMadness wrote:
If your support has sightstone and 3 people stick with yellow trinket, that's 6 wards. That's still a reasonable amount of vision.
Sure that makes 2-3 sweepers you don't have.
But serious question. You have an AP support why do they build the sight stone?
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On June 12 2014 12:06 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 12:00 GolemMadness wrote:
If your support has sightstone and 3 people stick with yellow trinket, that's 6 wards. That's still a reasonable amount of vision. Sure that makes 2-3 sweepers you don't have. But serious question. You have an AP support why do they build the sight stone?
I think it's because by the time your top laner is at six items, your support probably won't be. So they can afford to have a sightstone in their inventory. Having a sightstone instead of a real tank item makes you much weaker.
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On June 12 2014 12:06 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 12:00 GolemMadness wrote:
If your support has sightstone and 3 people stick with yellow trinket, that's 6 wards. That's still a reasonable amount of vision. Sure that makes 2-3 sweepers you don't have. But serious question. You have an AP support why do they build the sight stone?
1. Someone has to.
2. They have low gold incomes, it is a slot-inefficient item for pure stats.
3. They typically also have poorly scaling spells.
4. Warding is dangerous, you want your most expendable team member doing it.
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On June 12 2014 11:56 canikizu wrote:
yo Sufficiency, do you have the number of Urgot game in Seaon 4?
Probably not a lot. But I can guess around 10k?
My issue right now is that my database is too big (15 gb physical size, probably 100gb+ in text dump), so every operation on it takes a verýýyyyyyy long time.
I am considering my options. I can try to migrate everything to my spare desktop and mine my data there. But I need to first buy a hard disk for it. Even so I cannot be sure if the migration will suceed. So it is a risky move.
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On June 12 2014 11:10 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 09:52 iCanada wrote:
My last three games in a row I've had kids in Solo-Queue try and 2v1 me top lane. Rofl.
Shits weird.
But let me say, TL LoL, dont 2v1 kids in soloqueue. Just makes you look tryhard and makes the other team play better upon recognizing your tryhardedness. You also probably lack the vision to play as such without losing a shit ton of dragons, and there is no Besides, very few pure LoL players even understand how to deny in a 2v1 lane unless they also played DotA/HoN at some point.
Also, Rengar is still really really strong. I'd say the playerbase could adjust to him but I dont think they are smart enough to buy them vision items. Why is trying hard in soloqueue a bad thing? I thought that was the point? Also, people want to win in soloqueue, and if 2v1s help them win, then they should do it. I'm actually quite sad Soloqueue doesn't have more 2v1s because the LCS meta includes that a lot. Without practice in soloqueue, it might get quite hard to get used to it for LCS, and if people practiced it more in LCS, teams might play better when it happens or find ways to counter it. I think the huge gap between NA LCS meta and NA soloqueue meta is a huge detriment that we should try and bridge, not something we should make fun of people for when they copy LCS meta.
I suppose "tryhard" is the wrong term for it.
By creating a 2v1 swap in Solo queue you put the games stress on your hands. basically you need to create an advantage for yourself because being in a lane-swapped situation when you aren't in a ranked 5 situation leads to the other team capitalizing on more map objectives just naturally. That is why 1-1-2 became a thing in the first place, when two teams are unorganized, the team with two players top gets thrashed because they can't contest dragons and just fall way way behind.
There is no way in Solo queue you'll find a team that rotates properly in order to make it work. It sets you behind unless you can properly rotate and control vision.
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On June 12 2014 12:51 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 11:10 ghrur wrote:On June 12 2014 09:52 iCanada wrote:
My last three games in a row I've had kids in Solo-Queue try and 2v1 me top lane. Rofl.
Shits weird.
But let me say, TL LoL, dont 2v1 kids in soloqueue. Just makes you look tryhard and makes the other team play better upon recognizing your tryhardedness. You also probably lack the vision to play as such without losing a shit ton of dragons, and there is no Besides, very few pure LoL players even understand how to deny in a 2v1 lane unless they also played DotA/HoN at some point.
Also, Rengar is still really really strong. I'd say the playerbase could adjust to him but I dont think they are smart enough to buy them vision items. Why is trying hard in soloqueue a bad thing? I thought that was the point? Also, people want to win in soloqueue, and if 2v1s help them win, then they should do it. I'm actually quite sad Soloqueue doesn't have more 2v1s because the LCS meta includes that a lot. Without practice in soloqueue, it might get quite hard to get used to it for LCS, and if people practiced it more in LCS, teams might play better when it happens or find ways to counter it. I think the huge gap between NA LCS meta and NA soloqueue meta is a huge detriment that we should try and bridge, not something we should make fun of people for when they copy LCS meta. I suppose "tryhard" is the wrong term for it. By creating a 2v1 swap in Solo queue you put the games stress on your hands. basically you need to create an advantage for yourself because being in a lane-swapped situation when you aren't in a ranked 5 situation leads to the other team capitalizing on more map objectives just naturally. That is why 1-1-2 became a thing in the first place, when two teams are unorganized, the team with two players top gets thrashed because they can't contest dragons and just fall way way behind. There is no way in Solo queue you'll find a team that rotates properly in order to make it work. It sets you behind unless you can properly rotate and control vision.
I've gotten ridiculously huge by abusing people who don't know how to 2v1. It's easier for the team that does it since they know what's up.
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On June 12 2014 13:09 Ethelis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 12:51 iCanada wrote:On June 12 2014 11:10 ghrur wrote:On June 12 2014 09:52 iCanada wrote:
My last three games in a row I've had kids in Solo-Queue try and 2v1 me top lane. Rofl.
Shits weird.
But let me say, TL LoL, dont 2v1 kids in soloqueue. Just makes you look tryhard and makes the other team play better upon recognizing your tryhardedness. You also probably lack the vision to play as such without losing a shit ton of dragons, and there is no Besides, very few pure LoL players even understand how to deny in a 2v1 lane unless they also played DotA/HoN at some point.
Also, Rengar is still really really strong. I'd say the playerbase could adjust to him but I dont think they are smart enough to buy them vision items. Why is trying hard in soloqueue a bad thing? I thought that was the point? Also, people want to win in soloqueue, and if 2v1s help them win, then they should do it. I'm actually quite sad Soloqueue doesn't have more 2v1s because the LCS meta includes that a lot. Without practice in soloqueue, it might get quite hard to get used to it for LCS, and if people practiced it more in LCS, teams might play better when it happens or find ways to counter it. I think the huge gap between NA LCS meta and NA soloqueue meta is a huge detriment that we should try and bridge, not something we should make fun of people for when they copy LCS meta. I suppose "tryhard" is the wrong term for it. By creating a 2v1 swap in Solo queue you put the games stress on your hands. basically you need to create an advantage for yourself because being in a lane-swapped situation when you aren't in a ranked 5 situation leads to the other team capitalizing on more map objectives just naturally. That is why 1-1-2 became a thing in the first place, when two teams are unorganized, the team with two players top gets thrashed because they can't contest dragons and just fall way way behind. There is no way in Solo queue you'll find a team that rotates properly in order to make it work. It sets you behind unless you can properly rotate and control vision. I've gotten ridiculously huge by abusing people who don't know how to 2v1. It's easier for the team that does it since they know what's up.
Who doesn't know how to 2v1? Play like a pussy cat at tower, waveclear, and get any CS possible while waiting for ganks and not getting poked.
It sucks balls, but everyone knows how to play that way unless they dont have a brain.
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EPT
