EPT[Patch 4.9] RIP Kha'Zix General Discussion - Page 52
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Alright, we're going to call it a day with all the Thorin drama, guys. I figured if it was about SI, onGamers, TSM, etc, it had some relevance to League but somehow you guys managed to devolve the discussion into an issue about race of all things. Enough is enough. Let's move along now. -NeoIllusions | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On June 08 2014 22:00 Alaric wrote: Oh I wasn't comparing it to DotA. Simply, nerfing jungle Kha'Zix won't make tanky junglers come back, for example. PrinceXizor called it the Icefrog treatment and "proactive", which I took to be a remark about dota. I just wanted to get clear that this terminology was misleading and may bring you to a false view of balancing in different games. I never meant to claim that your initial post about buffs to underplayed champions is wrong in any way. I agree with you there completly. | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
(video on dragon juggling) is this still possible? | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 08 2014 20:35 Alaric wrote: I'd say it was always the case (initially off lane Kha'Zix was a bitch because he'd W the wave, one-shot it, and then have all the isolated Qs he wanted onto you; now he uses Tiamat for it), but I wanted to check his patch history to make sure of it and it's broken on the wiki. >_> His W damage hasn't really been buffed since the W evolution nerf. Poke's always been there. It's jut not the poke now. Now you can farm jungle crazy fast with w max. And gold generation is off the charts. Cuz now you also get the ability to lane tax and split push more effectively with it. So now you're likely to hit item timings faster. Not to mention the 50 % slow is what makes it bonkers right now. Oh they want to get on you? Slo and leap for days. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 08 2014 22:07 Prog wrote: PrinceXizor called it the Icefrog treatment and "proactive", which I took to be a remark about dota. I just wanted to get clear that this terminology was misleading and may bring you to a false view of balancing in different games. I never meant to claim that your initial post about buffs to underplayed champions is wrong in any way. I agree with you there completly. pro·ac·tive prōˈaktiv/Submit adjective (of a person, policy, or action) creating or controlling a situation by causing something to happen rather than responding to it after it has happened.. proactive =/= predictive. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35143 Posts
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On June 09 2014 00:30 Gahlo wrote: Except in that case, the only reason the weak champions get buffed is because they're weak... so you're reacting. Exactly. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On June 09 2014 00:30 Gahlo wrote: Except in that case, the only reason the weak champions get buffed is because they're weak... so you're reacting. ice frog does more than buff things because they are weak. he changes spells to change their ideal use to add or remove options from a hero. changing treant protector form a 3 second aoe root with damage with long CD and a global armor regen aura to a 6 sec aoe root with no damage and super short cd, and then a targetable damage block and regen, changes the intended use and isn't just a straight buff because treant was underused (he wasn't commonly used but he was still a very strong character). suggesting ice frog just buffs weak heroes is a lack of knowledge of what the changes actually are doing. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
On June 09 2014 00:43 PrinceXizor wrote: ice frog does more than buff things because they are weak. he changes spells to change their ideal use to add or remove options from a hero. changing treant protector form a 3 second aoe root with damage with long CD and a global armor regen aura to a 6 sec aoe root with no damage and super short cd, and then a targetable damage block and regen, changes the intended use and isn't just a straight buff because treant was underused (he wasn't commonly used but he was still a very strong character). suggesting ice frog just buffs weak heroes is a lack of knowledge of what the changes actually are doing. Then your claim that Alaric's comment about buffing underplayed or bad champions is the icefrog treatment is simply wrong and misplaced. + Show Spoiler + On June 08 2014 21:17 PrinceXizor wrote: Ah the Ice frog treatment. Thats a proactive style of patching and updating not a reactive one like riot uses. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On June 08 2014 04:23 Kinie wrote: So what is everyone's "pocket pick" when it comes to solo Q? The champion that you try to go to if you get forced into a specific role, no matter how good/bad they might be currently? Here's my list: Top: Riven Jungle: Vi Mid: Ziggs ADC: Ezreal Support: Leona Top: Gangplank Jungle: Fizz Mid: Orianna/Fizz ADC: Miss Fortune Support: Nami | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
 If the starts spellthief's edge she'll win every trade past level 1.Granted, my AD was really bad, and on top of that picked Vayne after they had Nami+Lucian, so he gave the other team a free lane, but still, Nami alone is such a pain to deal with as Lulu. >< Too much range, and Q to punish her shitty animations if Lulu tries to go in anyway. I just noticed again that the delay in Lulu's R means you can ult someone, play the animation, have the spell go on cd, and... they die before they receive the bonus HP. Been like that for forever and they fixed Eve's ult, but they ignore that? ._. (Well, it's only the 4th issue I come across that is notified and they don't take it into account.) | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 09 2014 02:09 Alaric wrote: Urgh. Nami's such a brainless match-up vs Lulu. If the starts spellthief's edge she'll win every trade past level 1.Granted, my AD was really bad, and on top of that picked Vayne after they had Nami+Lucian, so he gave the other team a free lane, but still, Nami alone is such a pain to deal with as Lulu. >< Too much range, and Q to punish her shitty animations if Lulu tries to go in anyway. I just noticed again that the delay in Lulu's R means you can ult someone, play the animation, have the spell go on cd, and... they die before they receive the bonus HP. Been like that for forever and they fixed Eve's ult, but they ignore that? ._. (Well, it's only the 4th issue I come across that is notified and they don't take it into account.) Pretty sure the fact that you had vayne is what loss you the match up. | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 09 2014 02:26 Prog wrote: Lulu loses to Nami regardless of adc, even though picking Vayne pretty much says "I want to lose lane even harder". Lulu is just bad against defensive, sustain supports. I don't think it's as bad as you suggest. There's just a lack of kill potential in lane, just forces lane to be farm lane imo. It just puts a lot of weight on your ADC and you to dodge the bubbles. Also seriously, when is Riot going to step up their game for hype vids? | ||
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Prog
United Kingdom1470 Posts
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UmberBane
Germany5450 Posts
Anyone watching Brazil finals? Entertaining game right now. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 08 2014 20:19 IMoperator wrote: i had a question for you guys; do you like how riot does so many patches and balance changes, or do you prefer like a valve/blizzard approach where they don't make balance changes as often? personally, i dont like at all how riot changes the game like every 2 weeks... It's a tradeoff. I don't think one way of doing things is better or worse--it depends which the company feels suits their philosophy about balance. My personal preference is for longer patch cycles with more focused changes, but I can see the merits for shorter pattch cycles. Shorter patch cycles mean you spend a lot of effort changing things that may or may not actually be problematic because of the fundamental lag time between a patch being released and players responding fully to the changes. On the whole when a champion becomes strong or is nerfed, there is a signficant period of time that needs to pass for players to learn the new champs before the difference in champion power overcomes their familiarity with the old ones. You need to overcome this lag time before your data will accurately reflect the impact of your changes. If your patch cycles are shorter than this, you will have a high tendency for error, as you may overbuff something before players have relearned an underplayed champion or overnerf something before players have mastered counterplay. The flip side is that longer patch cycles, while allowing you to make more decisive individual changes means that there is a longer lag time in responding to legitimate issues. Because you need that time to discern true problems from fads/overreaction, it's going to piss people off how long it takes for you to respond to things that are actually problems. On June 09 2014 00:43 PrinceXizor wrote: ice frog does more than buff things because they are weak. he changes spells to change their ideal use to add or remove options from a hero. changing treant protector form a 3 second aoe root with damage with long CD and a global armor regen aura to a 6 sec aoe root with no damage and super short cd, and then a targetable damage block and regen, changes the intended use and isn't just a straight buff because treant was underused (he wasn't commonly used but he was still a very strong character). suggesting ice frog just buffs weak heroes is a lack of knowledge of what the changes actually are doing. Xizor you're giving Icefrog more credit than he deserves. What you're describing isn't really exclusive to him or Valve. Really the only stand-out thing about Icefrog's approach is that he's generally willing to adopt a wait-and-see attitude with regard to balance issues and has the discipline to wait 6 months to a year to see how players adapt to playing against them and to observe what the problem areas really are before making changes to things. Riot does the same thing, it's just that overall their patch cycles are short enough that they get a lot more noise in their data and a lot of their energy is spent responding to things that don't reflect a steady-state with regard to balance in a particular version. | ||
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UnKooL
Korea (South)1667 Posts
On June 09 2014 02:44 UmberBane wrote: OGN is always riding that razor's between HYPE and over the top cheesy. Personally I think they've pretty much always succeeded, but I can see why Riot would be shy of doing something like this. Hopefully at Worlds they'll work very closely together with the OGN production crew. Anyone watching Brazil finals? Entertaining game right now. Yeah, brazil scene seems pretty wild. Awesome smite steal. | ||
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