EPT[Patch 4.9] RIP Kha'Zix General Discussion - Page 26
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Alright, we're going to call it a day with all the Thorin drama, guys. I figured if it was about SI, onGamers, TSM, etc, it had some relevance to League but somehow you guys managed to devolve the discussion into an issue about race of all things. Enough is enough. Let's move along now. -NeoIllusions | ||
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RouaF
France4121 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On June 06 2014 04:49 RouaF wrote: Guys don't forget that most casual players (read : 99,99% of LoL players) don't have great PCs and riot knows this. They would shoot themselves in the foot by changing the specs you need to play the game decently. they already have so don't underestimate them. as ive said my desktop can no longer run LoL and it used to easily in season 1ish. So they have definitely up'd the specs considerably as time has went on. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
Oh, and by the way: this map is going to run as well as, or better, than the SR you are currently playing on, when released.  | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On June 05 2014 15:07 obesechicken13 wrote: That's a huge nerf to early dorans and to BT. 70-100 damage -> 80. Actually a large bonus to early Doran's for AD's since they get the %lifesteal benefit for longer. Whereas previously stacking Doran's wasn't efficient because you never got that much effective lifesteal out of it now it can be. Once you pass 100 AD 3%>3 HP, so Doran's stacking becomes better. On June 05 2014 15:38 Gahlo wrote: I think at the time thresh wasn't mega popular, so between correct ward/hawkshot/seed placement it was near impossible to gank it. Thresh was either on the perm ban list, or didn't exist yet. Early Braum picks will bring back Ashe/Zyra because Zyra is really strong against Braum and Braum can't punish Ashe's lack of mobility (due to her counter slow) preventing Braum from closing) which makes Ashe strong against him too. On June 05 2014 18:39 GolemMadness wrote: Xpecial's thoughts on the ADC changes: Alex Chu @CurseXpecial 2h People love to hate on Riot's balance team, but talking to them and seeing their reasoning, they have the right idea. After Xpecial's video blog about like life and life stuff i am not sure how i can take anything he says with regards to "someone having the right idea" at a good thing On June 05 2014 20:17 miicah wrote: Ashe coming back is the only good thing about those lifesteal changes. Does riot really not consider changes like adding LS to dorans blade can affect other lanes? Like holy shit trundle is going to be even EASIER to play top with the dblade changes. Well Doran's have less stats on them. Most importantly Doran's for ranged is 100 AD for the break even point in terms of lifesteal Doran's for melee is 166 AD for the break even point in terms of lifesteal. So stacking Dorans, or early Doran's in general will only be stronger on ranged AD's who want to continue to stack non-lifesteal AD well past the 100 AD point. For a melee it should be weaker since you are getting less stats until you're significantly far into the game. On June 05 2014 23:14 Ketara wrote: Okay wait wait. So right now every ADC builds BT first. You agree that BT nerfs will make it so fewer ADs will build BT first, and more ADs will go 2-3Dblade -> IE. But this is not increasing build diversity. Okay. Well truthfully because of the way that AD multiplicative scaling works the idea of "build diversity" in AD's is kind of dumb. Generally there will be one build to rule them all and tweaking the numbers of the items just potentially changes which build rules them all. This is because each champion will have an efficient burst/dps damage build path, straying from that path will be inefficient the vast majority of the time, and this is exacerbated for the class of champions whose primary purpose is to scale into lategame damage. The only way to stop that that is to buff AD and AD items in a way that makes the efficient early items force them to choose between armor and mr as defensive stats. This will always exist because there will be one efficient offensive item for each champion, with the only way to differentiate between build orders and force variation is to make the tradeoff between different types of defense. But this can almost never happen without also breaking bruisers/AD assassins (who would love efficient multiplicative scaling AD/defensive items), or breaking ADs(who, if the items aren't good enough, simply die on the vine because they're never relevant, or if AD base stats are too strong totally dominate the game because they cannot be killed and have inherent position advantages of being ranged). This is inherent to the item progression (rather than base stat/ability progression) that League has chosen and the only way to stop it is to hard prevent certain champions from buying those items Fake edit: Actually i take this back, there potentially way to do it but you have to dehomogenize and exploit item timing so that sometimes the lategame carry wants to build an early game item while the early game carry wants to build the lategame item. On June 06 2014 01:02 wei2coolman wrote: I've been touting around the idea of an item that gives no AS, but double the value of crit chance of it's PD/shiv counterparts for a while. Like have the overall recipe be like 2 cloak of agility + 2 Brawler's glove, 60% crit chance, 5% ms. Everytime you crit you gain some cool effect, like a shield, or movespeed bonus. Excutioner's calling is basically this. It doesn't have double the crit of PD/Shiv but its got AD and Crit in the same item. The problem with calling is that its too cheap so its never slot efficient. Champions who want crit and AD at the same time are basically only ranged AD's who either already have some bonus attack speed, or don't ever really need attack speed. While these champions exist (Kog'Maw, Quinn, Lucian, Draven) there isn't ever a point you can justify dropping 1900 gold on a relatively gold inefficient item which is also stat inefficient. On June 06 2014 02:00 wei2coolman wrote: We have no idea what the numbers are or the final cost. I'd still think the extra auto attack from Hydra is too good to pass up on melee's. It definitely will. You have to have pretty absurd ratios and also a fully stacked BT for BT>Hydra unless you already have a hydra. On June 06 2014 03:44 AsmodeusXI wrote: Game changer kids. Here's something to discuss (sry Gahlo) http://www.surrenderat20.net/2014/06/update-to-summoners-rift-headed-to-pbe.html Edit: Hot damn that's pretty sexy. They need to brighten it up, the contrast* on creeps/jungle monsters/champions feels too low from watching that and can make actually watching/playing the game worse. The soft lines rather than hard cuts doesn't help either as it makes it harder to distinguish important shapes. Maybe it will be fixed by really good, bright, selection UI but it doesn't really look like its going to since that type of differentiation needs to be up pretty consistently. *The absolutely shitty art design with respect to color palate is one of the worst things about DotA. This isn't nearly as bad as DotA is but at first glance it looks worse than the current iteration. On June 06 2014 04:32 Sufficiency wrote: I only care about how SR VU affects blue side advantage. The blue color they've used is closer on a color wheel to the background than the red(not sure about the purple for the colorblind mode), so playing into blue minions will make clicking them harder and should confer a slightly larger advantage. Probably not nearly as large as the vision angle differences though. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
Nice. | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
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SilentShout
686 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Fake edit: Actually i take this back, there potentially way to do it but you have to dehomogenize and exploit item timing so that sometimes the lategame carry wants to build an early game item while the early game carry wants to build the lategame item. Well the alternative is to diversify their non stat-oriented utility such that even the numerically weaker item has its value made up for by the appropriateness of it's utility to the given game. But that involves introducing vastly stronger item actives and unique non-damage passives into the game--they have to be strong enough that they can outweigh inferiority of stats, which is not a road I'm sure Riot is willing to go down. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 06 2014 05:13 TheYango wrote: Well the alternative is to diversify their non stat-oriented utility such that even the numerically weaker item has its value made up for by the appropriateness of it's utility to the given game. But that involves introducing vastly stronger item actives and unique non-damage passives into the game--they have to be strong enough that they can outweigh inferiority of stats, which is not a road I'm sure Riot is willing to go down. sounds like a bitch to balance. Would make something like DFG, so damage amplification is like 40%, but only gives like 20 ap. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On the whole you'd either need to systematically lower the power level of all items, or accept that doing so would power creep the overall strength of items in the game. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 06 2014 05:24 TheYango wrote: You don't have to make the stats suck, you just have to make it so that the strength of the active outweighs the inferior stats. Gutting the stats doesn't do that. In fact, if you make the stats suck, you make it more likely that it's still going to be worse than the raw stat item. On the whole you'd either need to systematically lower the power level of all items, or accept that doing so would power creep the overall strength of items in the game. Sounds like an extra level of balance. I don't think Rito would ever do that for large farm priority roles. However, it would definitely be the right approach for support itemization, strong actives, but weak base stats, at low cost. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 06 2014 04:36 wei2coolman wrote: "having blue side advantage is unfun, so we've changed the map so this becomes less of an issue" *blammo* new map comes out. blue side winrates jumps up even more. "Going to start buffing top and middle turret so going 2v1 lanes happen less, and blueside winrate will drop" you can quote me on this when this happens. It'll only be for the first 10 minutes of the games that the towers get buffed though. And only if champions like Jax and Singed get picked vs someone like Cait. And only in LCS games if the game takes place on a Tuesday Wednesday or Friday. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 06 2014 05:29 Scip wrote: Remember the part of this thread where Yango was bored at Yamato's comments about design because it was something that's been said 50some times already? I got baited by someone who made a long post sounding like he hadn't. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 06 2014 05:00 Goumindong wrote: Actually a large bonus to early Doran's for AD's since they get the %lifesteal benefit for longer. Whereas previously stacking Doran's wasn't efficient because you never got that much effective lifesteal out of it now it can be. Once you pass 100 AD 3%>3 HP, so Doran's stacking becomes better. I said early dorans. And back when Dorans gave 100hp, 3% lifesteal, and 10 AD for 475, it was still not as strong early game as the 5 hp on hit one with the same stats. Why would you use 100AD as an example when the breakeven is 166 AD? You need a bit more than an IE or the new 80 damage BT (numbers have been out since at least this morning on the reign of gaming article) to reach this breakeven. I like the new VU and hopefully the tweet is correct that the game runs smoother. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On June 06 2014 04:38 TheYango wrote: Generally low-quality assets that are designed around being low quality look better than high quality assets scaled back to low quality settings. Still better than Dota's low quality options :< | ||
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