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On April 14 2014 02:12 Alaric wrote:
I've seen several WW. Like Yi, they tore people up because soloQers are dumb and have bad memory. WW has little presence early but they keep feeding kills when they forget about his ult and stay around, or try to 1v1 him forgetting about his sutain.
Since we see more heals and exhausts we usually go from 3 to 1 ignite, which makes it way harder to cut down his sutain. And then WW is fed and gets to abuse his ult's low cd to make picks because people don't know how to group/ward in soloQ.
That's how every game where I saw one went so far.
You can replace the word WW with every other champions and points still stand lol
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I wonder if one can FF jungle with, say, Tristana.
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On April 14 2014 02:15 AsnSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 02:00 wei2coolman wrote:On April 13 2014 20:05 AsnSensation wrote:
You get botrk on Yi because you usually finish it by the time your lantern upgrades to feral flare and if the enemy team doesn't ward it, you can easily 16min 1 or 2 man baron. imo botrk + feral flare is too much AS, despite the gimicky ability to 2 man baron at spawn. how can you have too much AS if the entire build basically thrives off of on-hit procs :O Cowsep (the dia 1 korea Yi main) actually runs full atkspeed runes ( sth over 40%) personally I wouldn't run non defensive glyphs/seals on a glass canon melee but I think he knows what he's doing.
I would imagine it'd be pretty hard to animation cancel attacks and kite with melee with too much AS.
On April 14 2014 02:25 Sufficiency wrote:
I wonder if one can FF jungle with, say, Tristana.
i'd imagine her first few clears being near impossible.\. though i saw saint do jungle vayne, so maybe?
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On April 14 2014 02:17 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 02:12 Alaric wrote:
I've seen several WW. Like Yi, they tore people up because soloQers are dumb and have bad memory. WW has little presence early but they keep feeding kills when they forget about his ult and stay around, or try to 1v1 him forgetting about his sutain.
Since we see more heals and exhausts we usually go from 3 to 1 ignite, which makes it way harder to cut down his sutain. And then WW is fed and gets to abuse his ult's low cd to make picks because people don't know how to group/ward in soloQ.
That's how every game where I saw one went so far. You can replace the word WW with every other champions and points still stand lol
But warwick can grab wiggles, take second blue, then go solo Dragon.
Solo queue strats. Also 6 item ww is one of the hardest carries in the game.
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On April 14 2014 02:48 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 02:17 canikizu wrote:On April 14 2014 02:12 Alaric wrote:
I've seen several WW. Like Yi, they tore people up because soloQers are dumb and have bad memory. WW has little presence early but they keep feeding kills when they forget about his ult and stay around, or try to 1v1 him forgetting about his sutain.
Since we see more heals and exhausts we usually go from 3 to 1 ignite, which makes it way harder to cut down his sutain. And then WW is fed and gets to abuse his ult's low cd to make picks because people don't know how to group/ward in soloQ.
That's how every game where I saw one went so far. You can replace the word WW with every other champions and points still stand lol But warwick can grab wiggles, take second blue, then go solo Dragon. Solo queue strats. Also 6 item ww is one of the hardest carries in the game.
Especially with like 40 stack feral flare, SV, FH and wits end.
Never die, do like 100 damage on hit, heal like 100 damage on hit, do like 1.5k damage ults, have like 2.2 autos per second while running really really fast WW style.
I dont know how reasonable it is to get there... but I feel like if you did you pretty much win.
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I had a game with a feral flare jungle Twitch recently.
He seemed real strong for the first 10 minutes and then suddenly we started teamfighting and he was totally useless. Kinda like Shaco but not as good.
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I feel FF has definitely made this game significantly worse.
This whole business with carry junglers need to end. You cant make the game to be decided on the jungler, who plays mostly PvE all game then come out and destroy people and objectives with FF.
I think FF stacks should only increase damage vs champions. Sustain and damage vs monsters should stay the same.
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On April 14 2014 03:02 Ketara wrote:
I had a game with a feral flare jungle Twitch recently.
He seemed real strong for the first 10 minutes and then suddenly we started teamfighting and he was totally useless. Kinda like Shaco but not as good.
I did FF Twitch, strong as fuk. Problem with Twitch jungle is when you are teamfighting, you have to play with adc mentality, not jungler mentality.If that Twitch understand that, he crushes people.
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On April 14 2014 02:00 iCanada wrote:
Has anyone tried Warwick Feral Flare?
It's fine, you just have to q much less often when clearing. You run out of mana in really prolonged team fights and can't walk to a random jungle camp to top off.
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On April 14 2014 03:19 zer0das wrote:It's fine, you just have to q much less often when clearing. You run out of mana in really prolonged team fights and can't walk to a random jungle camp to top off.
Was watching that diamond 1 kr guy who only jungles yi, and he often builds a spirit stone after 1/2 items. (Normally either after his feral/bilgewater, or after he has feral/botrk) and it gives him a ton of mana and health sustain for pretty cheap (700g.)
Maybe ww could do the same?
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On April 14 2014 04:10 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 03:19 zer0das wrote:On April 14 2014 02:00 iCanada wrote:
Has anyone tried Warwick Feral Flare? It's fine, you just have to q much less often when clearing. You run out of mana in really prolonged team fights and can't walk to a random jungle camp to top off. Was watching that diamond 1 kr guy who only jungles yi, and he often builds a spirit stone after 1/2 items. (Normally either after his feral/bilgewater, or after he has feral/botrk) and it gives him a ton of mana and health sustain for pretty cheap (700g.) Maybe ww could do the same?
From my experience ww doesn't nearly have as bad mana issues because w is so cheap. Also just w and swiping a camp usually gets you like 300-400 hp back. Spamming q to clear only really helps before wriggles and you usually have first blue. Get a glacial and you'll have enough mana for all but the longest of fights.
Ww bigger problem is his clear speed. If I could actually convert mana into significantly faster clear I think spirit stone could be worth it but ww doesn't actually use extra mana or hp.
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On April 13 2014 04:57 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2014 04:31 Goumindong wrote:On April 12 2014 16:35 Sufficiency wrote:
Unfortunately, the method I used (PCA) gives results that are hard to interpret. This is a known flaw of this method. You should at least explain what is going on. @the dude asking PCA deconstructs a number of variables into their non-correlated components. Its been a while since I've had to do standard linear so I think this is pretty close to the spectral/singular value decomposition (to give you a reference to look at) I believe that sufficiency chooses the axes to look at and the list above is how he separated them. Generally its a data visualization tool Uh, no. It's not just a data visualization tool.
Generally. Like for instance the graph you produced. It has no inferential value. The orthogonal components of the dataset don't mean anything. You have no second dataset to compare it to to determine how the high or low variance orthogonals are similar. You used it to make a picture
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On April 14 2014 04:26 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2014 04:10 killerdog wrote:On April 14 2014 03:19 zer0das wrote:On April 14 2014 02:00 iCanada wrote:
Has anyone tried Warwick Feral Flare? It's fine, you just have to q much less often when clearing. You run out of mana in really prolonged team fights and can't walk to a random jungle camp to top off. Was watching that diamond 1 kr guy who only jungles yi, and he often builds a spirit stone after 1/2 items. (Normally either after his feral/bilgewater, or after he has feral/botrk) and it gives him a ton of mana and health sustain for pretty cheap (700g.) Maybe ww could do the same? From my experience ww doesn't nearly have as bad mana issues because w is so cheap. Also just w and swiping a camp usually gets you like 300-400 hp back. Spamming q to clear only really helps before wriggles and you usually have first blue. Get a glacial and you'll have enough mana for all but the longest of fights. Ww bigger problem is his clear speed. If I could actually convert mana into significantly faster clear I think spirit stone could be worth it but ww doesn't actually use extra mana or hp.
WW is weird though. One of the only junglers that can kill the Golem and Wight camp rather well and fast.
I want to test it out a bit, see what it feels like.
That being said, I havn't really played LoL at all for like 4 months.
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Mundo kills them fast, but he doesn't care about Feral Flare. Vi kills the Wight rather quickly too, but Flare doesn't give her mana sustain nor CDR.
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I almost feel like WW clears the Wight and Golem camps faster than wolves/wraiths, I could be wrong though. I'ma go test.
EDIT: At level 3 with double buff and leveling QWW Golems take 12 seconds, wraiths 19s, Wolves, 16s, and Wight is only 10s.
I feel like his clear might not be bad, just people emphasizing wrong camps.
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On April 14 2014 04:51 Alaric wrote:
Mundo kills them fast, but he doesn't care about Feral Flare. Vi kills the Wight rather quickly too, but Flare doesn't give her mana sustain nor CDR.
mundo doesn't care about mana sustain from spirit items either and he does scale decently with attack speed because of his E. seems like he can fit the farm for 25 minutes and come out of the jungle an unstoppable lategame beast mold too.
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I keep seeing FF Shacos, and they are just as boring as the old Shaco, just stronger. Half the time they get 3 buffs and then kill everyone, the other half the time they are useless.
UHHG
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On April 14 2014 04:55 iCanada wrote:
I almost feel like WW clears the Wight and Golem camps faster than wolves/wraiths, I could be wrong though. I'ma go test.
EDIT: At level 3 with double buff and leveling QWW Golems take 12 seconds, wraiths 19s, Wolves, 16s, and Wight is only 10s.
I feel like his clear might not be bad, just people emphasizing wrong camps.
You get a second W point at lvl 3? I tough warwick maxed Q first and E second
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On April 14 2014 04:55 iCanada wrote:
I almost feel like WW clears the Wight and Golem camps faster than wolves/wraiths, I could be wrong though. I'ma go test.
EDIT: At level 3 with double buff and leveling QWW Golems take 12 seconds, wraiths 19s, Wolves, 16s, and Wight is only 10s.
I feel like his clear might not be bad, just people emphasizing wrong camps.
But then there's the pathing. Just because something is quicker to clear doesn't mean it's quicker from a general getting around the map/other camp perspective.
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Pre-s2 Mundo used to build PD because of that. Can't remember their other items though, I didn't see him at that time, just that when he received the buffs that made him a good jungler people mentioned PD and that he stopped using it.
(Then again troll builds on Rammus included PD for the zoom zoom effect + the fact that his passive gives him a frightening amount of AD—especially early game, the 80+ AD dude coming out of the jungle and hitting you with AS marks makes for a lot of his gank damage).
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EPT
