• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:32
CET 04:32
KST 12:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!11[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.171Evil Geniuses - shutting down16ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League82
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory! Recent recommended BW games [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Hands of Pluto Oceanic Brood War - Join and chat!
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group C
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9999 users

[Patch 4.5] Rune Rework General Discussion - Page 71

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 69 70 71 72 73 118 Next
New Article: Interview with Chobra (OGN)
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
April 13 2014 17:17 GMT
#1401
On April 14 2014 02:12 Alaric wrote:
I've seen several WW. Like Yi, they tore people up because soloQers are dumb and have bad memory. WW has little presence early but they keep feeding kills when they forget about his ult and stay around, or try to 1v1 him forgetting about his sutain.
Since we see more heals and exhausts we usually go from 3 to 1 ignite, which makes it way harder to cut down his sutain. And then WW is fed and gets to abuse his ult's low cd to make picks because people don't know how to group/ward in soloQ.

That's how every game where I saw one went so far.

You can replace the word WW with every other champions and points still stand lol
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
April 13 2014 17:25 GMT
#1402
I wonder if one can FF jungle with, say, Tristana.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-13 17:36:09
April 13 2014 17:33 GMT
#1403
On April 14 2014 02:15 AsnSensation wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2014 02:00 wei2coolman wrote:
On April 13 2014 20:05 AsnSensation wrote:
You get botrk on Yi because you usually finish it by the time your lantern upgrades to feral flare and if the enemy team doesn't ward it, you can easily 16min 1 or 2 man baron.

imo botrk + feral flare is too much AS, despite the gimicky ability to 2 man baron at spawn.


how can you have too much AS if the entire build basically thrives off of on-hit procs :O

Cowsep (the dia 1 korea Yi main) actually runs full atkspeed runes ( sth over 40%) personally I wouldn't run non defensive glyphs/seals on a glass canon melee but I think he knows what he's doing.

I would imagine it'd be pretty hard to animation cancel attacks and kite with melee with too much AS.

On April 14 2014 02:25 Sufficiency wrote:
I wonder if one can FF jungle with, say, Tristana.

i'd imagine her first few clears being near impossible.\. though i saw saint do jungle vayne, so maybe?
liftlift > tsm
Kaneh
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada737 Posts
April 13 2014 17:48 GMT
#1404
On April 14 2014 02:17 canikizu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2014 02:12 Alaric wrote:
I've seen several WW. Like Yi, they tore people up because soloQers are dumb and have bad memory. WW has little presence early but they keep feeding kills when they forget about his ult and stay around, or try to 1v1 him forgetting about his sutain.
Since we see more heals and exhausts we usually go from 3 to 1 ignite, which makes it way harder to cut down his sutain. And then WW is fed and gets to abuse his ult's low cd to make picks because people don't know how to group/ward in soloQ.

That's how every game where I saw one went so far.

You can replace the word WW with every other champions and points still stand lol

But warwick can grab wiggles, take second blue, then go solo Dragon.

Solo queue strats. Also 6 item ww is one of the hardest carries in the game.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 13 2014 18:01 GMT
#1405
On April 14 2014 02:48 Kaneh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2014 02:17 canikizu wrote:
On April 14 2014 02:12 Alaric wrote:
I've seen several WW. Like Yi, they tore people up because soloQers are dumb and have bad memory. WW has little presence early but they keep feeding kills when they forget about his ult and stay around, or try to 1v1 him forgetting about his sutain.
Since we see more heals and exhausts we usually go from 3 to 1 ignite, which makes it way harder to cut down his sutain. And then WW is fed and gets to abuse his ult's low cd to make picks because people don't know how to group/ward in soloQ.

That's how every game where I saw one went so far.

You can replace the word WW with every other champions and points still stand lol

But warwick can grab wiggles, take second blue, then go solo Dragon.

Solo queue strats. Also 6 item ww is one of the hardest carries in the game.


Especially with like 40 stack feral flare, SV, FH and wits end.

Never die, do like 100 damage on hit, heal like 100 damage on hit, do like 1.5k damage ults, have like 2.2 autos per second while running really really fast WW style.

I dont know how reasonable it is to get there... but I feel like if you did you pretty much win.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
April 13 2014 18:02 GMT
#1406
I had a game with a feral flare jungle Twitch recently.

He seemed real strong for the first 10 minutes and then suddenly we started teamfighting and he was totally useless. Kinda like Shaco but not as good.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
April 13 2014 18:11 GMT
#1407
I feel FF has definitely made this game significantly worse.

This whole business with carry junglers need to end. You cant make the game to be decided on the jungler, who plays mostly PvE all game then come out and destroy people and objectives with FF.

I think FF stacks should only increase damage vs champions. Sustain and damage vs monsters should stay the same.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
canikizu
Profile Joined September 2010
4860 Posts
April 13 2014 18:13 GMT
#1408
On April 14 2014 03:02 Ketara wrote:
I had a game with a feral flare jungle Twitch recently.

He seemed real strong for the first 10 minutes and then suddenly we started teamfighting and he was totally useless. Kinda like Shaco but not as good.

I did FF Twitch, strong as fuk. Problem with Twitch jungle is when you are teamfighting, you have to play with adc mentality, not jungler mentality.If that Twitch understand that, he crushes people.
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
April 13 2014 18:19 GMT
#1409
On April 14 2014 02:00 iCanada wrote:
Has anyone tried Warwick Feral Flare?


It's fine, you just have to q much less often when clearing. You run out of mana in really prolonged team fights and can't walk to a random jungle camp to top off.
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
April 13 2014 19:10 GMT
#1410
On April 14 2014 03:19 zer0das wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2014 02:00 iCanada wrote:
Has anyone tried Warwick Feral Flare?


It's fine, you just have to q much less often when clearing. You run out of mana in really prolonged team fights and can't walk to a random jungle camp to top off.

Was watching that diamond 1 kr guy who only jungles yi, and he often builds a spirit stone after 1/2 items. (Normally either after his feral/bilgewater, or after he has feral/botrk) and it gives him a ton of mana and health sustain for pretty cheap (700g.)

Maybe ww could do the same?
Kaneh
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada737 Posts
April 13 2014 19:26 GMT
#1411
On April 14 2014 04:10 killerdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2014 03:19 zer0das wrote:
On April 14 2014 02:00 iCanada wrote:
Has anyone tried Warwick Feral Flare?


It's fine, you just have to q much less often when clearing. You run out of mana in really prolonged team fights and can't walk to a random jungle camp to top off.

Was watching that diamond 1 kr guy who only jungles yi, and he often builds a spirit stone after 1/2 items. (Normally either after his feral/bilgewater, or after he has feral/botrk) and it gives him a ton of mana and health sustain for pretty cheap (700g.)

Maybe ww could do the same?


From my experience ww doesn't nearly have as bad mana issues because w is so cheap. Also just w and swiping a camp usually gets you like 300-400 hp back. Spamming q to clear only really helps before wriggles and you usually have first blue. Get a glacial and you'll have enough mana for all but the longest of fights.

Ww bigger problem is his clear speed. If I could actually convert mana into significantly faster clear I think spirit stone could be worth it but ww doesn't actually use extra mana or hp.
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
April 13 2014 19:40 GMT
#1412
On April 13 2014 04:57 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2014 04:31 Goumindong wrote:
On April 12 2014 16:35 Sufficiency wrote:
Unfortunately, the method I used (PCA) gives results that are hard to interpret. This is a known flaw of this method.


You should at least explain what is going on.

@the dude asking

PCA deconstructs a number of variables into their non-correlated components. Its been a while since I've had to do standard linear so I think this is pretty close to the spectral/singular value decomposition (to give you a reference to look at)

I believe that sufficiency chooses the axes to look at and the list above is how he separated them. Generally its a data visualization tool


Uh, no. It's not just a data visualization tool.


Generally. Like for instance the graph you produced. It has no inferential value. The orthogonal components of the dataset don't mean anything. You have no second dataset to compare it to to determine how the high or low variance orthogonals are similar. You used it to make a picture
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
April 13 2014 19:48 GMT
#1413
On April 14 2014 04:26 Kaneh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2014 04:10 killerdog wrote:
On April 14 2014 03:19 zer0das wrote:
On April 14 2014 02:00 iCanada wrote:
Has anyone tried Warwick Feral Flare?


It's fine, you just have to q much less often when clearing. You run out of mana in really prolonged team fights and can't walk to a random jungle camp to top off.

Was watching that diamond 1 kr guy who only jungles yi, and he often builds a spirit stone after 1/2 items. (Normally either after his feral/bilgewater, or after he has feral/botrk) and it gives him a ton of mana and health sustain for pretty cheap (700g.)

Maybe ww could do the same?


From my experience ww doesn't nearly have as bad mana issues because w is so cheap. Also just w and swiping a camp usually gets you like 300-400 hp back. Spamming q to clear only really helps before wriggles and you usually have first blue. Get a glacial and you'll have enough mana for all but the longest of fights.

Ww bigger problem is his clear speed. If I could actually convert mana into significantly faster clear I think spirit stone could be worth it but ww doesn't actually use extra mana or hp.


WW is weird though. One of the only junglers that can kill the Golem and Wight camp rather well and fast.

I want to test it out a bit, see what it feels like.

That being said, I havn't really played LoL at all for like 4 months.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
April 13 2014 19:51 GMT
#1414
Mundo kills them fast, but he doesn't care about Feral Flare. Vi kills the Wight rather quickly too, but Flare doesn't give her mana sustain nor CDR.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-13 20:04:18
April 13 2014 19:55 GMT
#1415
I almost feel like WW clears the Wight and Golem camps faster than wolves/wraiths, I could be wrong though. I'ma go test.

EDIT: At level 3 with double buff and leveling QWW Golems take 12 seconds, wraiths 19s, Wolves, 16s, and Wight is only 10s.

I feel like his clear might not be bad, just people emphasizing wrong camps.
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
April 13 2014 19:55 GMT
#1416
On April 14 2014 04:51 Alaric wrote:
Mundo kills them fast, but he doesn't care about Feral Flare. Vi kills the Wight rather quickly too, but Flare doesn't give her mana sustain nor CDR.

mundo doesn't care about mana sustain from spirit items either and he does scale decently with attack speed because of his E. seems like he can fit the farm for 25 minutes and come out of the jungle an unstoppable lategame beast mold too.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 13 2014 20:03 GMT
#1417
I keep seeing FF Shacos, and they are just as boring as the old Shaco, just stronger. Half the time they get 3 buffs and then kill everyone, the other half the time they are useless.

UHHG
Freeeeeeedom
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
April 13 2014 20:12 GMT
#1418
On April 14 2014 04:55 iCanada wrote:
I almost feel like WW clears the Wight and Golem camps faster than wolves/wraiths, I could be wrong though. I'ma go test.

EDIT: At level 3 with double buff and leveling QWW Golems take 12 seconds, wraiths 19s, Wolves, 16s, and Wight is only 10s.

I feel like his clear might not be bad, just people emphasizing wrong camps.

You get a second W point at lvl 3? I tough warwick maxed Q first and E second
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-13 20:14:50
April 13 2014 20:14 GMT
#1419
On April 14 2014 04:55 iCanada wrote:
I almost feel like WW clears the Wight and Golem camps faster than wolves/wraiths, I could be wrong though. I'ma go test.

EDIT: At level 3 with double buff and leveling QWW Golems take 12 seconds, wraiths 19s, Wolves, 16s, and Wight is only 10s.

I feel like his clear might not be bad, just people emphasizing wrong camps.

But then there's the pathing. Just because something is quicker to clear doesn't mean it's quicker from a general getting around the map/other camp perspective.
HOLY CHECK!
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
April 13 2014 20:14 GMT
#1420
Pre-s2 Mundo used to build PD because of that. Can't remember their other items though, I didn't see him at that time, just that when he received the buffs that made him a good jungler people mentioned PD and that he stopped using it.
(Then again troll builds on Rammus included PD for the zoom zoom effect + the fact that his passive gives him a frightening amount of AD—especially early game, the 80+ AD dude coming out of the jungle and hitting you with AS marks makes for a lot of his gank damage).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Prev 1 69 70 71 72 73 118 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
IntoTheTV X SOOP
02:00
Replaycast Group C
PiGosaur Cup
00:30
#105
PiGStarcraft628
CranKy Ducklings70
davetesta18
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft628
RuFF_SC2 194
ViBE113
CosmosSc2 47
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 6544
Rain 2697
GuemChi 1385
Leta 609
910 55
Noble 32
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift5453
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 500
Other Games
summit1g10832
WinterStarcraft373
C9.Mang0309
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1374
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 89
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP26
• practicex 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki192
• Pr0nogo 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt311
Other Games
• Shiphtur420
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
6h 28m
Kung Fu Cup
7h 28m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 7h
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
OSC
1d 18h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
GSL
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
[ Show More ]
AI Arena Tournament
3 days
Yamato Cup
4 days
Map Test Tournament
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-27
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.