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On April 11 2014 04:38 Alzadar wrote:
What's the problem you have with Feral Flare? Is it the gold generation? The great dragon + baron speed it gives? The damage from Feral stacks?
I've seen it in several games now (most junglers are building it) and have yet to be hugely surprised by anyone that built it. It might need looking at if it totally eclipses Elder Lizard though.
Its basically a mess of perfect multiplicative stats and vision. It has damage, attack speed, and lifesteal. It has infinite scaling as well and so continues to get stronger as the game goes on. When it transforms the bonus damage is 175(58) and its life on hit is 35(equivalent to 10% lifesteal with 350 AD and the enemy having no armor) and each additional large monster kill increases that by 3(1) and 1.If you make it to 50 large monster kills you're doing 250(83)damage/hit with 60 HP/attack
The biggest advantage it probably has that few people see is the 1000 range ward. Not only is this is equal to 4.1 GP/10 but because of its range it is pretty much always safe to place it where you want.
Think about the stats/gold for a second. 15 AD, 58 damage/hit, 35 HP/hit, 35% attack speed, 4.1 effective GP/10 for 1650 gold. Compare this to Wits End and its power is obvious: 42 damage/hit, 42% attack speed, 25 MR, MR thief 5/hit 2400 gold.
Compare the gold efficiency of Feral Flare to Elder Lizard: Lizard has about 1400 gold in stats before its passives for 2000 cost. Flare has about 1750 gold in stats for 1650 before its passives.
The only downside to feral flare in terms of power is that you need to be a jungler to make use of it, since no one else will have enough large monster kills to make a wriggles purchase valuable. If you didn't have to kill monsters to transform it that item would be first buy on every ADC in the game because you would get a BT worth of damage and sustain (plus attack speed) for half the cost.
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Baa?21247 Posts
On April 11 2014 05:30 Kyrie wrote:
nevermind, dont actually have anything to say
hi im kyrie and i like warm hugs
I'm a sheep and I'm warm and fluffy. You can hug me :3
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On April 11 2014 05:31 Goumindong wrote:
When it transforms the bonus damage is 175(58) and its life on hit is 35
no
when it transforms the bonus dmg is 100(33) and life on hit is 10
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On April 11 2014 05:40 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 05:31 Goumindong wrote:
When it transforms the bonus damage is 175(58) and its life on hit is 35
no when it transforms the bonus dmg is 100(33) and life on hit is 10
Yep this is correct.
I guess someone never built the item before huehuehue
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On April 11 2014 05:35 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 05:30 Kyrie wrote:
nevermind, dont actually have anything to say
hi im kyrie and i like warm hugs I'm a sheep and I'm warm and fluffy. You can hug me :3
Don't forget carnivorous.
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On April 11 2014 05:40 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 05:31 Goumindong wrote:
When it transforms the bonus damage is 175(58) and its life on hit is 35
no when it transforms the bonus dmg is 100(33) and life on hit is 10
My mistake i read the description wrong. Its still a massive amount of damage and sustain for a small cost.
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On April 11 2014 05:31 Goumindong wrote:
The only downside to feral flare in terms of power is that you need to be a jungler to make use of it, since no one else will have enough large monster kills to make a wriggles purchase valuable. If you didn't have to kill monsters to transform it that item would be first buy on every ADC in the game because you would get a BT worth of damage and sustain (plus attack speed) for half the cost.
On the other hand, its an Autoattack item for melee champs (that probably won't be strong enough to splitpush against top lane), which makes it close to useless in a huge number of situations.
I think its an item with very divergent pro and solo queue power.
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On April 11 2014 06:05 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 05:31 Goumindong wrote:
The only downside to feral flare in terms of power is that you need to be a jungler to make use of it, since no one else will have enough large monster kills to make a wriggles purchase valuable. If you didn't have to kill monsters to transform it that item would be first buy on every ADC in the game because you would get a BT worth of damage and sustain (plus attack speed) for half the cost.
On the other hand, its an Autoattack item for melee champs (that probably won't be strong enough to splitpush against top lane), which makes it close to useless in a huge number of situations. I think its an item with very divergent pro and solo queue power.
It saw quite a bit of play in the EUCS semi finals today.
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I hate that despite having the ball on herself, there's still a delay before Orianna receives the shield. There's no fucking travle time at all ffs!
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On April 11 2014 05:31 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 04:38 Alzadar wrote:
What's the problem you have with Feral Flare? Is it the gold generation? The great dragon + baron speed it gives? The damage from Feral stacks?
I've seen it in several games now (most junglers are building it) and have yet to be hugely surprised by anyone that built it. It might need looking at if it totally eclipses Elder Lizard though. Its basically a mess of perfect multiplicative stats and vision. It has damage, attack speed, and lifesteal. It has infinite scaling as well and so continues to get stronger as the game goes on. When it transforms the bonus damage is 175(58) and its life on hit is 35(equivalent to 10% lifesteal with 350 AD and the enemy having no armor) and each additional large monster kill increases that by 3(1) and 1.If you make it to 50 large monster kills you're doing 250(83)damage/hit with 60 HP/attack The biggest advantage it probably has that few people see is the 1000 range ward. Not only is this is equal to 4.1 GP/10 but because of its range it is pretty much always safe to place it where you want. Think about the stats/gold for a second. 15 AD, 58 damage/hit, 35 HP/hit, 35% attack speed, 4.1 effective GP/10 for 1650 gold. Compare this to Wits End and its power is obvious: 42 damage/hit, 42% attack speed, 25 MR, MR thief 5/hit 2400 gold. Compare the gold efficiency of Feral Flare to Elder Lizard: Lizard has about 1400 gold in stats before its passives for 2000 cost. Flare has about 1750 gold in stats for 1650 before its passives. The only downside to feral flare in terms of power is that you need to be a jungler to make use of it, since no one else will have enough large monster kills to make a wriggles purchase valuable. If you didn't have to kill monsters to transform it that item would be first buy on every ADC in the game because you would get a BT worth of damage and sustain (plus attack speed) for half the cost.
Where are you getting these random stats? 175 damage? 10% lifesteal? 350 AD? Why does the enemy have no armour?
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On April 11 2014 06:23 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 05:31 Goumindong wrote:On April 11 2014 04:38 Alzadar wrote:
What's the problem you have with Feral Flare? Is it the gold generation? The great dragon + baron speed it gives? The damage from Feral stacks?
I've seen it in several games now (most junglers are building it) and have yet to be hugely surprised by anyone that built it. It might need looking at if it totally eclipses Elder Lizard though. Its basically a mess of perfect multiplicative stats and vision. It has damage, attack speed, and lifesteal. It has infinite scaling as well and so continues to get stronger as the game goes on. When it transforms the bonus damage is 175(58) and its life on hit is 35(equivalent to 10% lifesteal with 350 AD and the enemy having no armor) and each additional large monster kill increases that by 3(1) and 1.If you make it to 50 large monster kills you're doing 250(83)damage/hit with 60 HP/attack The biggest advantage it probably has that few people see is the 1000 range ward. Not only is this is equal to 4.1 GP/10 but because of its range it is pretty much always safe to place it where you want. Think about the stats/gold for a second. 15 AD, 58 damage/hit, 35 HP/hit, 35% attack speed, 4.1 effective GP/10 for 1650 gold. Compare this to Wits End and its power is obvious: 42 damage/hit, 42% attack speed, 25 MR, MR thief 5/hit 2400 gold. Compare the gold efficiency of Feral Flare to Elder Lizard: Lizard has about 1400 gold in stats before its passives for 2000 cost. Flare has about 1750 gold in stats for 1650 before its passives. The only downside to feral flare in terms of power is that you need to be a jungler to make use of it, since no one else will have enough large monster kills to make a wriggles purchase valuable. If you didn't have to kill monsters to transform it that item would be first buy on every ADC in the game because you would get a BT worth of damage and sustain (plus attack speed) for half the cost. Where are you getting these random stats? 175 damage? 10% lifesteal? 350 AD? Why does the enemy have no armour?
He was under the impression that the transform stacks applied to the on hit for the damage. For the equivalence of 10% LS with 350AD on a 0 armor target is because the onhit gives a flat heal, regardless of how much damage it does.
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On April 11 2014 05:29 Ryuu314 wrote:
Tbh I think Feral Flare is massively overhyped right now. If the opponent picks a Feral Flare jungler, pick someone like Panth and just dominate the early game since your opponent will be busy stacking his Wriggles.
I think it could do with a small nerf on the sustain and the interaction with Spirit Stone should be removed, but honestly I think it's overhyped/people not knowing how to deal with it.
Idk I think it's a bit overhyped, but also I think how you "HAVE" to play FF junglers is wrong atm. I've been leveling my smurf is ranked and using them. I have had plenty of games where I finish wriggles with 10 or less stacks because I have been ganking quite often. Combined with the new AS runes, you get 59% from Wriggles/AS Marks/AS Quints. For champs like Noc with a built in 20% AS boost, you still do a metric shit ton of damage without FF.
I bashed the hell out of FF before it was on live, but after messing with it I think it needs to be nerfed a bit, but otherwise it's a damn solid item that you don't HAVE to afk farm with. Just makes AS junglers good again is all.
On that note, it came of the expense of the 21/9/0 AP junglers from S2 including my loved Maokai. They stand ZERO chance atm, AS junglers just roflstomp them.
Edit: The only thing I think is really silly with FF atm is the magic dmg. Feels like it's hard to itemize against FF junglers, as they will be doing a lot of magic dmg. Would like to see that moved to physical, unless there is some reason I am forgetting (aside for jungle monsters having 0 or -10 MR)
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Wriggles is nerfed to 30 stacks to transform on the PBE.
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feral flare + ghostblade xin seems pretty fun
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On April 11 2014 07:05 Gahlo wrote:
Wriggles is nerfed to 30 stacks to transform on the PBE.
I reslly don't like the change. This just polarizes FF's power even more. I rather see a base damage nerf instead.
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On April 11 2014 07:32 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 07:05 Gahlo wrote:
Wriggles is nerfed to 30 stacks to transform on the PBE. I reslly don't like the change. This just polarizes FF's power even more. I rather see a base damage nerf instead.
If you nerf the base damage then you have to nerf Wriggles, and we went through about a year and a half of Wriggles sucking.
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On April 11 2014 06:07 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2014 06:05 cLutZ wrote:On April 11 2014 05:31 Goumindong wrote:
The only downside to feral flare in terms of power is that you need to be a jungler to make use of it, since no one else will have enough large monster kills to make a wriggles purchase valuable. If you didn't have to kill monsters to transform it that item would be first buy on every ADC in the game because you would get a BT worth of damage and sustain (plus attack speed) for half the cost.
On the other hand, its an Autoattack item for melee champs (that probably won't be strong enough to splitpush against top lane), which makes it close to useless in a huge number of situations. I think its an item with very divergent pro and solo queue power. It saw quite a bit of play in the EUCS semi finals today.
Definitely worth waiting and seeing for pro play, but Riot has made melle autoattacks incredibly hard to execute in that environment.
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EPT
