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On March 21 2014 12:14 FinestHour wrote: it literally gives me terminal cancer when i see people go to lane after their first back with a sheen its like what the fuck do you think is going to happen to you with that item sheen's a fine first buy if you're ahead in the lane
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Sheen works best when you have some damage for it to amplify. Your first item should not be a sheen. If you're building TF then get phage. You want mana? Get a glacial shroud or tear. Sheen is the worse of both worlds.
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oh my bad i wasnt clear, was referring to the whole 99 percent of players dont know what to buy on nasus so they buy sheen cuz its on the recommended items list then feed and lose the game for their team
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oh you're talking about nasus lol? I didnt read i thought you were talking about fizz/ezreal or something.
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On March 21 2014 12:49 AsianEcksDragon wrote: Sheen works best when you have some damage for it to amplify. Your first item should not be a sheen. If you're building TF then get phage. You want mana? Get a glacial shroud or tear. Sheen is the worse of both worlds.
What do you mean damage for it to amplify? Sheen proc is 100% base AD.
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wtf sheen on nasus first lol, nasus going ham!
but really, nasus is all about afk farming, PvE style
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On March 21 2014 12:44 Nemireck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 10:19 AsianEcksDragon wrote: MF's Q damage being moved from base to more AD scaling means that it's better to leave it at rank 1 and max W or E first instead? In my opinion no, because they've lowered the mana cost and CD on Q as well. You're getting almost 1.5 Q's for the price of 1, with a pretty minor damage "nerf" to compensate. I think Q is still your priority skill. The 2nd hit is an outright buff. And I think the first hit breaks even in early game. (I haven't done the math, just quick estimates in my head) I want that CD as low as possible so I can use it and abuse it.
It's not an outright buff. Second hit does almost as much damage on before, yes. Lower CD is pretty crazy. Overall you have slightly higher DPS if you're spamming it and higher mana efficiency that both get comparatively better as you get more your bonus damage... so it's much less bursty in lane unless it's the second hit.
On the other hand, W has been significantly weakened in the early game, and it's damage doesn't increase with level, only the attack speed. From my point of view playing MF, you want your Auto-Q-Auto to be your main damage source, and the attack speed buff from W after that combo is just icing on the cake. With Q on a lower cool down, and that W doesn't increase it's damage output per level, my goal would be 2 A-Q-A hits in a combo of spells... A-Q-A-W-E-Autos-A-Q-A would be the ideal full rotation on a target. Getting that second Q in is more important than some attack speed.
E is bad, don't use E*
*Obviously use to slow targets... duh.
EDIT: While I was reading my post it occurred to me that E's slow might be significant enough a buff to prioritize it over W as well, making W your lowest priority skill... Interested to see what other people think of the increased slow at the cost of attack speed.
I honestly have no idea. I think Q will still be leveled first. Keep in mind that E slow was increased by just 13%. Being able to clear waves with it is pretty amazing but for a skill leveled second I think the higher AS will be more important, by the time you finish ranking your second skill you're pretty late in the game and you want to give your items every chance they have to shine.
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Doesnt 3seconds make her Q as low on cd as Ezreals assuming he hit something with it? Wouldnt that mean triforce would be pretty good on her?
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On March 21 2014 14:56 krndandaman wrote:I remember I always went sheen first vs yorick as nasus. It allows you to 1 shot his ghouls lol. and it counts as a stack  dunno if thats still how you play the matchup though. Really once you get level 9 or so you can ignore Yorick completely, I'd almost always get some kind of stats before sheen, and be chugging pots since he wont scale well unless he gets super fed
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On March 21 2014 14:04 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 12:44 Nemireck wrote:On March 21 2014 10:19 AsianEcksDragon wrote: MF's Q damage being moved from base to more AD scaling means that it's better to leave it at rank 1 and max W or E first instead? In my opinion no, because they've lowered the mana cost and CD on Q as well. You're getting almost 1.5 Q's for the price of 1, with a pretty minor damage "nerf" to compensate. I think Q is still your priority skill. The 2nd hit is an outright buff. And I think the first hit breaks even in early game. (I haven't done the math, just quick estimates in my head) I want that CD as low as possible so I can use it and abuse it. It's not an outright buff. Second hit does almost as much damage on before, yes. Lower CD is pretty crazy. Overall you have slightly higher DPS if you're spamming it and higher mana efficiency that both get comparatively better as you get more your bonus damage... so it's much less bursty in lane unless it's the second hit. Show nested quote +On the other hand, W has been significantly weakened in the early game, and it's damage doesn't increase with level, only the attack speed. From my point of view playing MF, you want your Auto-Q-Auto to be your main damage source, and the attack speed buff from W after that combo is just icing on the cake. With Q on a lower cool down, and that W doesn't increase it's damage output per level, my goal would be 2 A-Q-A hits in a combo of spells... A-Q-A-W-E-Autos-A-Q-A would be the ideal full rotation on a target. Getting that second Q in is more important than some attack speed.
E is bad, don't use E*
*Obviously use to slow targets... duh.
EDIT: While I was reading my post it occurred to me that E's slow might be significant enough a buff to prioritize it over W as well, making W your lowest priority skill... Interested to see what other people think of the increased slow at the cost of attack speed. I honestly have no idea. I think Q will still be leveled first. Keep in mind that E slow was increased by just 13%. Being able to clear waves with it is pretty amazing but for a skill leveled second I think the higher AS will be more important, by the time you finish ranking your second skill you're pretty late in the game and you want to give your items every chance they have to shine.
E is highly underrated imo. Higher slow percentage during laning makes it easy as shit for your support to hit their skill shots. It also gets +55 damage per rank, and that's pretty high.
I used to do E max MF with leona if we got ahead early, since MF E made leona engage so hard to dodge, and the E also procs all her sunlight charges instantly. Felt pretty strong.
It's not bad for clearing waves either, so that's a bonus.
Not really saying E max is the best, but I dont agree that its bad, and it could very well be the best second skill to max after the PBE changes rolls around. W is only going to be more attack speed since the passive is 6% AD per stack on all ranks. Q is probably going to be too good to skip early.
Looking forward to the MF changes anyways
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Is Nasus jungle more viable now with the sustain on all the jungle items? He clears really fast with a couple levels in E, Q stacks are super easy (you can get +9 per camp generally), and W is great for ganks or escaping/dueling in the jungle. Annoying you need to level all his skills to be effective, but seems fairly strong.
I had a friend who build Sheen on basically every AD wth any sort of AP scaling when he was ahead. I was a bit sketched out, but he insisted the extra burst and the large mana pool helped him snowball real hard. Dunno if true though, I can see benefits because the Sheen proc and burst could be more important in early game trades and fights than an extra sustained 45 dps from a BF sword though.
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E sucks against anyone like Ezreal or Lucian that can blink/dash out of it. It will probably also suck against Sivir who can walk through it like nothing is there. It is great against someone like Twitch or Draven who cannot do the same but you would want to engage in "single combo" trades against rather than drawn out. Basically, E + Auto + Q and back off before slow runs out. Q also still packs quite a punch in this case because you are still using it mostly like an autoattack reset. Having the shorter CD at higher ranks would benefit you much against a Draven because you are bottlenecked by your E's CD and you don't want to trade with him without it up.
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I don't think I've ever seen a Nasus go sheen first.
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I do. It's pretty common.
And they feed like crazy 95% of the time.
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On March 21 2014 15:53 GolemMadness wrote: I don't think I've ever seen a Nasus go sheen first. I have. It's called the "I gotta do the damages, yo" crowd.
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On March 21 2014 16:09 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 15:53 GolemMadness wrote: I don't think I've ever seen a Nasus go sheen first. I have. It's called the "I gotta do the damages, yo" crowd.
Iceborn gauntlet seems like an ok item to start with on nasus..i'd definitely go shroud first tho...
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if you want to fuck around and you're ahead in lane, go ionians + bluepot first back and just stack dat Q. sheen first is just bad.
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Worst ones are those that argue that it's good, or even that they don't care because that's how they do it when you point the Sheen first buy to them.
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On March 21 2014 13:03 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 12:49 AsianEcksDragon wrote: Sheen works best when you have some damage for it to amplify. Your first item should not be a sheen. If you're building TF then get phage. You want mana? Get a glacial shroud or tear. Sheen is the worse of both worlds. What do you mean damage for it to amplify? Sheen proc is 100% base AD. And with levels, your base damage increases quite a bit .
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