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[Patch 4.2] Xerath/Skarner General Discussion - Page 22

Forum Index > LoL General
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wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-12 07:46:31
February 12 2014 07:45 GMT
#421
On February 12 2014 14:24 gtrsrs wrote:
skarner kinda blows now

idk i'm pretty sure just max e something like QEWEE-R->E max E then get 3 levels in W then get level 2 Q and max W. His clear is pretty damn fast. people just keep playing him like old skarner is the issue i'm guessing
BW -> League -> CSGO
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
February 12 2014 07:48 GMT
#422
@wei2coolman just gonna point out a couple things for you.

On February 12 2014 04:56 Celial wrote:
Hey, I'm looking for new jungler to spam but just don't know which champion...

I want a champ that has the option to both hardcarry and be a tank (not at the same time, mind you). It needs to be outside of the current fotm meta though, I know that Vi would fit exactly that description but she is either banned or picked every game. I also want to be able to either outright beat or safely escape popular junglers. I prefer a more farm heavy playstyle, but want decent ganks (so Shyvana is out).

I played a lot of Olaf recently, but I feel that while I can stay a (minor) threat in lategame with true damage, I really cannot pick up a struggling team on my back and carry it. Even if I do VERY well for myself. Pantheon, Vi, Wukong, Khazix, Elise, Olaf... etc all FOTM that I don't want to play. I like to play champions that are very rarely popular but still insanely strong (and do well even when behind), just like my favorite support Karma. Any ideas?


On February 12 2014 06:10 Celial wrote:
Yeah but I'm by far not good enough at the game to switch seamlessly between different champions and perform well. Also, I mostly play duo queue nowadays as Karma support with my ADC buddy, so I don't get much practice in on jungle either. I like to focus on a single champion, so I get decent with it. It hurts when that champ is FOTM and banned or picked away from me all the time.

Nocturne sounds like a nice idea though. Will give Nocturne and Jarvan a try. Thanks guys <3


Celial is looking for a champion that can:
a) hard carry OR be a tank.
b) NOT FOTM because he does a lot of duo que and wants a small champion pool that probably won't be picked or banned out - even mentioning karma as his main support. FOTM does not suit him because he says he's not good enough to seamlessly change month to month.
c) be able to duel junglers OR safely escape. he doesn't need both.
d) a farm heavy yet still decent ganks.

Then you told him "just play FOTM junglers, that's a silly question." (obviously paraphrasing)

then many people suggested champions like Jarvan, Darius, Nocturne, Sejuani, Amumu, and Aatrox. all good suggestions that not only he was satisfied with but also fit his "silly" criteria. not to mention the rune/mastery/and other build/playstyle tips he got from TL posters who ACTUALLY helped.

I particularly enjoyed dae's post on the jungle Darius. if I recall dae is a d1 player, but I'm sure him having success (at least enough to post a moderate amount of info) with jungle Darius is "laughable".

ps had you suggested hecarim in the beginning instead of your original post, we wouldn't be having this discussion. in fact I think hecarim is one of, if not, the best suggestions so far. kinda amusing how you managed to answer his "silly question".

double ps what champs do you play? or should I assume you play FOTM feela? (feela = only in Sesotho if anybody cares to be a little more cultured)

triple ps ketara you're KILLING me with that picture. WTB first world food please.
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
February 12 2014 08:10 GMT
#423
I play whatever I want to play in jungle. I know that I won't be as effective as the enemy jungler who's playing FotM,

Also, in regards to dae being d1 player and playing jungle Darius, there are always going to be examples of d1 players with funky choices that they brute force in solo queue, and force it to work. Like the challenger dude playing only Veigar, and so on. Would I go around suggesting Veigar as a midlane champ for players looking for a new champ to win with? nope.

Or maybe I should suggest Karthus jungle? I mean, you just farm all day, and press R for counter ganks. I mean, come on, Azingy plays it! Totally great suggestion.

Also, I don't get how J4/Darius/Sej/Aatrox, fit into those citeria, even though he may of been satisfied with that answer.
Sej slow clear throughout, only good thing is solid post 6 ganks. Even in terms of damage output, you could just play Amumu instead, which offer better farm/clear, and his duality in his kit is better (building tanky or building damage), than sej. But the only reason he'd avoid it is cuz "it might be banned", or it's "too popular".
liftlift > tsm
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
February 12 2014 08:33 GMT
#424
Usually if you're not as effective as the enemy jungler it's because he is a better player, not because of your champion pick.
fotm and stuff only start to matter when you play at very high level
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
February 12 2014 08:35 GMT
#425
On February 12 2014 16:13 JazzVortical wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 15:28 wei2coolman wrote:
On February 12 2014 15:17 MattBarry wrote:
Played against C10 Meteos in a normal, since i'm a gold scrub I figured it was a fake account. Nope it was the real meteos, he sucks at Xerath though.

Jungle Xerath incoming.

After playing him in a bot game, I actually think that's a decent possibility. Long range slow to set up stun for decent ganks. Plus the potential change removing the AoE sustain (but lower percentage) hit for spirit items would help a lot. Kites camps well to avoid damage too.

I'm pleasantly surprised after playing him, but he does feel quite a bit more 'same-y'. Sorta just feels like a lot of other champs. Having only R being his siege mode really affected his identity IMO. Plus he still blows people up from fog of war, which was supposedly one reason for changing him.

It's funny too, one of the criticisms of Xerath when the rework first started was that his abilities looked and sounded underwhelming, leading to an underwhelming experience. His ult still has that problem.


his ult is actually impossible to dodge, which is fucking ridiculous and makes him instaban for me
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
February 12 2014 08:47 GMT
#426
Servers on NA just went full EU
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
February 12 2014 09:03 GMT
#427
Main issue I have with the Xerath rework is the sounds. His new VO line volumes seem louder than the older ones, and the sounds on his W/E/R are very lame/boring.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
February 12 2014 09:17 GMT
#428
On February 12 2014 17:33 SagaZ wrote:
Usually if you're not as effective as the enemy jungler it's because he is a better player, not because of your champion pick.
fotm and stuff only start to matter when you play at very high level

It puts you in a disadvantage.
liftlift > tsm
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
February 12 2014 09:18 GMT
#429
On February 12 2014 17:10 wei2coolman wrote:
I play whatever I want to play in jungle. I know that I won't be as effective as the enemy jungler who's playing FotM,

so why can't celial play what he wants in jungle? even if it isn't FOTM? why couldn't you have made your hecarim suggestion before calling his question silly?

Also, in regards to dae being d1 player and playing jungle Darius, there are always going to be examples of d1 players with funky choices that they brute force in solo queue, and force it to work. Like the challenger dude playing only Veigar, and so on. Would I go around suggesting Veigar as a midlane champ for players looking for a new champ to win with? nope.

maybe dae is the only player capable of making Darius work in jungle at a high level. or maybe celial could use dae's knowledge and possibly make him work at his lower level? HUGE MAYBE I KNOW RIGHT.

I'd 100% suggest veigar to someone if their criteria was an ap champ that can one shot other ap champs or squishies. he wouldn't be my only suggestion, or even the best one, but I'd still suggest him.


Or maybe I should suggest Karthus jungle? I mean, you just farm all day, and press R for counter ganks. I mean, come on, Azingy plays it! Totally great suggestion.

if jungle karthus fit his criteria then hell yes I'd suggest it. but he wasn't looking for an ap jungler who clears well... and I dunno - presses r for counter ganks. I actually don't know what criteria he fits because he's an obscure jungler.

ps you comparing jungle Darius to jungle karthus is laughable.


Also, I don't get how J4/Darius/Sej/Aatrox, fit into those citeria, even though he may of been satisfied with that answer.

what don't you get? care to explain?

Sej slow clear throughout, only good thing is solid post 6 ganks.
Even in terms of damage output, you could just play Amumu instead, which offer better farm/clear, and his duality in his kit is better (building tanky or building damage), than sej. But the only reason he'd avoid it is cuz "it might be banned", or it's "too popular"

just because amumu is better (in your opinion) does not mean sejuani doesn't fit the criteria. it was also mentioned that while sejuani has a slow first clear, after that her non wight clear is good enough. not to mention the sheer cc she brings to the table.



ps what champions do you play?
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
silencefc
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States875 Posts
February 12 2014 09:19 GMT
#430
I wanna say I actually enjoy the changes to the solo queue Pick Order.

I'm no longer mortified when I'm first pick. I'm terrible and anyone worse than me must be atrociously bad.
Slice like a goddamn hammer.
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
February 12 2014 09:21 GMT
#431
On February 12 2014 18:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 17:33 SagaZ wrote:
Usually if you're not as effective as the enemy jungler it's because he is a better player, not because of your champion pick.
fotm and stuff only start to matter when you play at very high level

It puts you in a disadvantage.


and yet you're totally fine with it.

so why wouldn't someone who EXPLICITLY states they don't want to play FOTM junglers MAYBE POSSIBLY be ok with it as well? especially someone who already said they play karma support.
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-12 09:27:38
February 12 2014 09:22 GMT
#432
Only Sejuani's first clear is a tad slow (and even then, it's "a tad", it's nothing unplayable or atrocious like Rammus' for example), after that she's actually pretty fast, nop racecar fast like Shyvana but still tier A, and her passive makes her way stronger at fighting than other non-dueling junglers (obv. if you let Lee get a QaaQ on you, or Vi a full charge QautoE before you even start hitting thm it's your problem).

New spirit stone makes it so I have to actually manage my mana with Vi instead of Qing around when I'm not killing camps, even mid/late game. :<
Gotta teach me to keep these conservation stacks down.

On February 12 2014 11:40 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 11:11 dae wrote:
On February 12 2014 10:48 phyvo wrote:
On February 12 2014 08:18 cLutZ wrote:
On February 12 2014 08:09 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On February 12 2014 07:55 Yezzus wrote:
Is it me or does the new champ look really awesome? His kit seems pretty interesting too

I'm just waiting patiently until TL ruins this guy for me too. Every time, I'm like "OMG this champ looks so rad" and then the unstoppable wave of cynicism makes me feel bad. At least it's not as bad as the movie forums.


I think people pretty much Unanimously liked Jinx didn't they? And Lissandra was a total TeamLiquid favorite when she was released.

Its just when you release certain kinds of champions in a row...


I actually hated Jinx in concept/personality. She ended up being fun to play though so I mostly forgave her even though part of me resents any ADC that overshadows Kog Maw. Back then some TLers told me they thought Kog could became a thing again, I'm still waiting for that.


Kog wont ever be a thing while jinx is alive. Shes just a better version of him.

Well that need not be true. For starters they could boost his uptime on w so he can be in turret mode more often. They could compensate him more lategame with a better base as so he scales more ridiculously with items, etc.

Jinx and kog both can be good if they are allowed to have different peaks.

Only Draven, Twitch and Kennen have more base AS than him (and Draven only wants enough AS to be able to juggle 2 axes tbh).

On February 12 2014 14:34 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 07:00 wei2coolman wrote:
Watching that Chinese Draven game, where the guy gets like 40+ kills in like 20 or so minutes. I was thinking "damn, so this is what a hyper carry looks like", then I remembered, that was what season 2 normal ADC's looked like past the 30min mark.

are we using hyper carry to describe people who get fed and carry now?

More like a dude with a 85% AD increase on his autos post-9 as long as he has axes (it's the same as stacking non-IE crit until 85%). There's not much to buff his damage further apart from making it scale multiplicatively with crit (ohgodno). He probably can't fight 5 people at once if you're implying it in that sense, but at a high-level he can 1v2 or 1v3 with kiting and it's quite significant in LoL.

On February 12 2014 14:57 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
xerath new ult is such bullshit, there is no window at all to react to it, i was orianna with ms quints, sorc boots, and w boost and i still couldn't run out of the circle in time

You don't have to try and run out of the circle-unless you were talking about the projectile's circle and not the ult range's circle?

On February 12 2014 13:39 Dusty wrote:
Has anyone been having trouble with Vi's Q? Whenever I try to charge it up sometimes the Q will just go off randomly, I'm not sure if I'm just doing something wrong or it's a bug.

Eh, she's bugged. I've been displaced out of the ult several times (I mean as Vi, not a the target), and her Q still sometimes fizzles (more rarely than before, though), or freezes and you can't release it or cancel or auto or anything, and the worst of all is the hitbox. Like Nautilus, if you're anywhere close to her when she starts dashing, you're going to count as being hit and it'll stop her. Want to stop a Vi from running away? Flash to her with the good timing. Doesn't matter if you're on top, in front, behind her or to the side, she'll stop dead in her tracks because the hitbox doesn't seem to match her fist at all (at least during the start of the dash).
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-12 09:41:53
February 12 2014 09:39 GMT
#433
On February 12 2014 18:21 JonGalt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 18:17 wei2coolman wrote:
On February 12 2014 17:33 SagaZ wrote:
Usually if you're not as effective as the enemy jungler it's because he is a better player, not because of your champion pick.
fotm and stuff only start to matter when you play at very high level

It puts you in a disadvantage.


and yet you're totally fine with it.

so why wouldn't someone who EXPLICITLY states they don't want to play FOTM junglers MAYBE POSSIBLY be ok with it as well? especially someone who already said they play karma support.

Because the criteria he listed is pretty much all the current fotm jungler. When you list all these things for requirements which all point to the inevitable list of fotm champs, guess what. The answer is fotm champs.

And karma support is purty good. Don't know why there was a dropoff in play % in proplay.


Also in regards to the hypercarry comment. If you watched the game. The draven got to 1v4 status inside enemy base. And effectively forces enemy into their fountain. If that's not hypercarry I don't know what is.
liftlift > tsm
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
February 12 2014 09:47 GMT
#434
Maybe a 25-0 dude up 6 or so levels on people with a fully stacked SotO. I mean, at this stage the important part is that he's got some kind of spammable ranged ability (in this case Q-powered autos) for the zoning.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
February 12 2014 09:51 GMT
#435
On February 12 2014 18:47 Alaric wrote:
Maybe a 25-0 dude up 6 or so levels on people with a fully stacked SotO. I mean, at this stage the important part is that he's got some kind of spammable ranged ability (in this case Q-powered autos) for the zoning.

Yeah. I wasn't saying draven is hypercarry, but he got to that status in that game. And then I had a nostalgia moment that s1 and s2 adc's used to do that amount of damage regularly if the game ran past 30 minutes. Pretty much my point was adc as a role got their poo poo shoved in over the past few seasons.
liftlift > tsm
JonGalt
Profile Joined February 2013
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
February 12 2014 09:51 GMT
#436
why can't that criteria fit the FOTM champs AND non FOTM champs? and if the answer is all FOTM junglers, how did you come up with hecarim? he's not FOTM but somehow you deemed he fit the criteria (and I agree).

and again, why don't you think the junglers suggested fit the criteria?

I never said karma was bad. I'm just pointing out he clearly stated he didn't want FOTM junglers and he already plays a pretty non FOTM support.

ps what champions do you play?
LiquidLegends StaffWho is Jon Galt?
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
February 12 2014 10:00 GMT
#437
On February 12 2014 18:22 Alaric wrote:
Only Sejuani's first clear is a tad slow (and even then, it's "a tad", it's nothing unplayable or atrocious like Rammus' for example), after that she's actually pretty fast, nop racecar fast like Shyvana but still tier A, and her passive makes her way stronger at fighting than other non-dueling junglers (obv. if you let Lee get a QaaQ on you, or Vi a full charge QautoE before you even start hitting thm it's your problem).

New spirit stone makes it so I have to actually manage my mana with Vi instead of Qing around when I'm not killing camps, even mid/late game. :<
Gotta teach me to keep these conservation stacks down.

Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 11:40 cLutZ wrote:
On February 12 2014 11:11 dae wrote:
On February 12 2014 10:48 phyvo wrote:
On February 12 2014 08:18 cLutZ wrote:
On February 12 2014 08:09 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
On February 12 2014 07:55 Yezzus wrote:
Is it me or does the new champ look really awesome? His kit seems pretty interesting too

I'm just waiting patiently until TL ruins this guy for me too. Every time, I'm like "OMG this champ looks so rad" and then the unstoppable wave of cynicism makes me feel bad. At least it's not as bad as the movie forums.


I think people pretty much Unanimously liked Jinx didn't they? And Lissandra was a total TeamLiquid favorite when she was released.

Its just when you release certain kinds of champions in a row...


I actually hated Jinx in concept/personality. She ended up being fun to play though so I mostly forgave her even though part of me resents any ADC that overshadows Kog Maw. Back then some TLers told me they thought Kog could became a thing again, I'm still waiting for that.


Kog wont ever be a thing while jinx is alive. Shes just a better version of him.

Well that need not be true. For starters they could boost his uptime on w so he can be in turret mode more often. They could compensate him more lategame with a better base as so he scales more ridiculously with items, etc.

Jinx and kog both can be good if they are allowed to have different peaks.

Only Draven, Twitch and Kennen have more base AS than him (and Draven only wants enough AS to be able to juggle 2 axes tbh).

Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 14:34 arb wrote:
On February 12 2014 07:00 wei2coolman wrote:
Watching that Chinese Draven game, where the guy gets like 40+ kills in like 20 or so minutes. I was thinking "damn, so this is what a hyper carry looks like", then I remembered, that was what season 2 normal ADC's looked like past the 30min mark.

are we using hyper carry to describe people who get fed and carry now?

More like a dude with a 85% AD increase on his autos post-9 as long as he has axes (it's the same as stacking non-IE crit until 85%). There's not much to buff his damage further apart from making it scale multiplicatively with crit (ohgodno). He probably can't fight 5 people at once if you're implying it in that sense, but at a high-level he can 1v2 or 1v3 with kiting and it's quite significant in LoL.

Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 14:57 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
xerath new ult is such bullshit, there is no window at all to react to it, i was orianna with ms quints, sorc boots, and w boost and i still couldn't run out of the circle in time

You don't have to try and run out of the circle-unless you were talking about the projectile's circle and not the ult range's circle?

Show nested quote +
On February 12 2014 13:39 Dusty wrote:
Has anyone been having trouble with Vi's Q? Whenever I try to charge it up sometimes the Q will just go off randomly, I'm not sure if I'm just doing something wrong or it's a bug.

Eh, she's bugged. I've been displaced out of the ult several times (I mean as Vi, not a the target), and her Q still sometimes fizzles (more rarely than before, though), or freezes and you can't release it or cancel or auto or anything, and the worst of all is the hitbox. Like Nautilus, if you're anywhere close to her when she starts dashing, you're going to count as being hit and it'll stop her. Want to stop a Vi from running away? Flash to her with the good timing. Doesn't matter if you're on top, in front, behind her or to the side, she'll stop dead in her tracks because the hitbox doesn't seem to match her fist at all (at least during the start of the dash).


yeah the projectile circle
i've basically resorted to demanding that he be banned or i troll if they pick him

i hate to do it but i'm tired of him getting shit on in lane and going legendary afterwards

not even release rengar or zyra made me this angry
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
February 12 2014 10:03 GMT
#438
If jungle wukong isn't in your repertoire, you're missing out on freelo.
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
JoFeSboyAT
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria128 Posts
February 12 2014 10:06 GMT
#439
lulu buff so i think stronk counter vs Leona
I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
February 12 2014 10:10 GMT
#440
Speaking that jungle debate, Skarner actually seems to fit into the criteria (Damage or tank), but seeing as how he just got reworked, I guess it's moot.

Anyone seen Yasuo yet? I wanna see how he's been affected.
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