• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:33
CEST 16:33
KST 23:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Rollback Netcode in Brood War645.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202621Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)78
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 [Old] StarCraft 3 Reportedly in Development StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)
Tourneys
RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released Rollback Netcode in Brood War ChatGPT cheats at StarSkirmish SCAI tournament BW General Discussion TL Sidebar missing streams
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Semifinal A [ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8577 users

[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 216

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 214 215 216 217 218 383 Next
Chemiczny84
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland458 Posts
October 15 2013 21:21 GMT
#4301
On October 16 2013 05:45 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2013 05:43 Chemiczny84 wrote:
On October 16 2013 05:25 Dandel Ion wrote:
On October 16 2013 05:08 UniversalSnip wrote:
On October 16 2013 02:08 Dandel Ion wrote:
If you tag yourself with PL, you're asking for it.

what PL

The BR tags of europe

Why so much hate? I didn't think I'd encounter it on TL also...


I think dandelion was being more informational and creating the analogy. "BR huehue" has been a long known and understood thing on NA servers. So I think he was just making the comparison for NA folks, not being derogatory about it.

but it's a totally different thing, something like 70-80% of people on eune are from PL
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
October 15 2013 21:32 GMT
#4302
not sure if it's a good idea or not, but on jinx i get 2 points in W then max Q, 150% increase in base damage, 33% increase in slow percentage, and 10% less cd seems pretty efficient for 1 skill point.
Loving Memory
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States70 Posts
October 15 2013 21:33 GMT
#4303
Since we're talking about Jinx, is it a good idea to toggle between the rocket launcher and the gatling gun once you're at three stacks? When I look at it, it like a good idea, but in practice it just means that I have to deal with her base ASPD for the second shot. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-15 21:54:51
October 15 2013 21:51 GMT
#4304
On October 16 2013 06:33 Loving Memory wrote:
Since we're talking about Jinx, is it a good idea to toggle between the rocket launcher and the gatling gun once you're at three stacks? When I look at it, it like a good idea, but in practice it just means that I have to deal with her base ASPD for the second shot. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


The only time I switch to rockets is when I'm looking to stop/start a siege, last-hit someone as they run away from a fight, or wave clear quickly. Otherwise I tend to stick in gatling gun mode because the AS boost seems too good to not abuse, especially when I use W for poking or E to snare someone while I have BT + 1 AS boost item. Not to mention a late game/full build Jinx can hit like 2+ AS a second with full gatling stacks, which just seems insane.

Slight side note, this is more-so me just trying to figure out how MMR works and not raging, as I went on a 6 game win streak for ~60 LP, then lost my last 3 and am now down to 0 LP. I know my MMR is low because my win rate is low (around 42%) and I get paired with and vs. Bronze 3 - Silver 5 players. I assume I lose so much LP because I'm higher ranked than the people I play against and when they beat me, the game takes more from me because I'm higher ranked, is that about right?
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-15 21:53:50
October 15 2013 21:53 GMT
#4305
On October 16 2013 06:33 Loving Memory wrote:
Since we're talking about Jinx, is it a good idea to toggle between the rocket launcher and the gatling gun once you're at three stacks? When I look at it, it like a good idea, but in practice it just means that I have to deal with her base ASPD for the second shot. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


There are two ways to go about it. You can weave a W in between your rocket shots in order to use the time meaningfully. The alternative requires more skill. If you toggle to rockets the instant your mini-gun fires the entire time spent waiting for the first rocket, and firing it, goes under your toggle's cooldown. Early on this allows you to seamlessly weave a single rocket in without losing much time.

As to whether it's a good idea, it's mostly a matter of how well you can pull it off, and whether it'll be the difference between getting an additional attack off in a trade and the like.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Chrispy
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada5878 Posts
October 15 2013 21:54 GMT
#4306
Darn.. another GP skin coming out. I really don't buy skins very often (think I've spent like 40$ on this game in 3 years) but can't resist when it comes to my lil pirate.
Retvrn to Forvms
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 15 2013 22:07 GMT
#4307
OMFG a Lux buff ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha ahahahahahaha hahahahaha ahaha ahahahahahahahaha hahahaha haahahahahahahaha weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-15 22:12:21
October 15 2013 22:11 GMT
#4308
On October 16 2013 06:51 Kinie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2013 06:33 Loving Memory wrote:
Since we're talking about Jinx, is it a good idea to toggle between the rocket launcher and the gatling gun once you're at three stacks? When I look at it, it like a good idea, but in practice it just means that I have to deal with her base ASPD for the second shot. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


The only time I switch to rockets is when I'm looking to stop/start a siege, last-hit someone as they run away from a fight, or wave clear quickly. Otherwise I tend to stick in gatling gun mode because the AS boost seems too good to not abuse, especially when I use W for poking or E to snare someone while I have BT + 1 AS boost item. Not to mention a late game/full build Jinx can hit like 2+ AS a second with full gatling stacks, which just seems insane.

Slight side note, this is more-so me just trying to figure out how MMR works and not raging, as I went on a 6 game win streak for ~60 LP, then lost my last 3 and am now down to 0 LP. I know my MMR is low because my win rate is low (around 42%) and I get paired with and vs. Bronze 3 - Silver 5 players. I assume I lose so much LP because I'm higher ranked than the people I play against and when they beat me, the game takes more from me because I'm higher ranked, is that about right?

^That's about right. LP gain/loss doesn't care about rank though. It only cares about MMR.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 15 2013 22:13 GMT
#4309
On October 16 2013 06:51 Kinie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2013 06:33 Loving Memory wrote:
Since we're talking about Jinx, is it a good idea to toggle between the rocket launcher and the gatling gun once you're at three stacks? When I look at it, it like a good idea, but in practice it just means that I have to deal with her base ASPD for the second shot. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


The only time I switch to rockets is when I'm looking to stop/start a siege, last-hit someone as they run away from a fight, or wave clear quickly. Otherwise I tend to stick in gatling gun mode because the AS boost seems too good to not abuse, especially when I use W for poking or E to snare someone while I have BT + 1 AS boost item. Not to mention a late game/full build Jinx can hit like 2+ AS a second with full gatling stacks, which just seems insane.

Slight side note, this is more-so me just trying to figure out how MMR works and not raging, as I went on a 6 game win streak for ~60 LP, then lost my last 3 and am now down to 0 LP. I know my MMR is low because my win rate is low (around 42%) and I get paired with and vs. Bronze 3 - Silver 5 players. I assume I lose so much LP because I'm higher ranked than the people I play against and when they beat me, the game takes more from me because I'm higher ranked, is that about right?


No that is not right.

You are always playing against players who are more or less evenly ranked with you.

If you are losing 20 points for losses and only gaining 10 points for wins, that means your MMR is much lower than your listed division and the system is attempting to demote you.

If you keep winning games it will correct itself and stabilize.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-15 22:20:37
October 15 2013 22:18 GMT
#4310
On October 16 2013 06:51 Kinie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2013 06:33 Loving Memory wrote:
Since we're talking about Jinx, is it a good idea to toggle between the rocket launcher and the gatling gun once you're at three stacks? When I look at it, it like a good idea, but in practice it just means that I have to deal with her base ASPD for the second shot. Anyone have any thoughts on this?


The only time I switch to rockets is when I'm looking to stop/start a siege, last-hit someone as they run away from a fight, or wave clear quickly. Otherwise I tend to stick in gatling gun mode because the AS boost seems too good to not abuse, especially when I use W for poking or E to snare someone while I have BT + 1 AS boost item. Not to mention a late game/full build Jinx can hit like 2+ AS a second with full gatling stacks, which just seems insane.

Slight side note, this is more-so me just trying to figure out how MMR works and not raging, as I went on a 6 game win streak for ~60 LP, then lost my last 3 and am now down to 0 LP. I know my MMR is low because my win rate is low (around 42%) and I get paired with and vs. Bronze 3 - Silver 5 players. I assume I lose so much LP because I'm higher ranked than the people I play against and when they beat me, the game takes more from me because I'm higher ranked, is that about right?

What rank are you?

Since you are being matched with bronze 3 - silver 5 players, your MMR is in the bronze 3 - silver 5 range. If your displayed rank is higher than that, the LP system will try to push your displayed rank down to where your MMR is. It does this by giving you less LP for wins and losing more LP for losses.

However, if you maintain a >50% win rate, your MMR will go up, and when it reaches your display rank you will start to earn equal LP for wins and losses.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
October 15 2013 22:20 GMT
#4311
This league system...

Wonder which headless chicken they hired to design it.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
October 15 2013 22:23 GMT
#4312
On October 16 2013 07:20 obesechicken13 wrote:
This league system...

Wonder which headless chicken they hired to design it.


Same class of people as "sustain is toxic"=>release rengar.

Porouscloud - NA LoL
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
October 15 2013 22:24 GMT
#4313
On October 16 2013 07:20 obesechicken13 wrote:
This league system...

Wonder which headless chicken they hired to design it.

The league system works perfectly. Its just that idiots try to use league/division as a substitute for skill when it is only an indicator of MMR. MMR isn't a measure of skill either, only an indicator for that too.

The design of the league system was to obfuscate MMR/skill so that games wouldn't be tied so much to a personal measure and thus involve lots of ego. Unfortunately the latter is pretty much intractable.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23444 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-15 22:27:57
October 15 2013 22:27 GMT
#4314
On October 16 2013 07:23 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2013 07:20 obesechicken13 wrote:
This league system...

Wonder which headless chicken they hired to design it.


Same class of people as "sustain is toxic"=>release rengar.



"Aatrox is broken by design"
"Quoting your post for 2 weeks time when Aatrox is first pick first ban status"
(i don't know who you are, or if you still have my post, but i will find you, and embarrass you)
THE NORTH REMEMBERS
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-15 22:45:07
October 15 2013 22:43 GMT
#4315
On October 16 2013 07:18 thenexusp wrote:
What rank are you?

Since you are being matched with bronze 3 - silver 5 players, your MMR is in the bronze 3 - silver 5 range. If your displayed rank is higher than that, the LP system will try to push your displayed rank down to where your MMR is. It does this by giving you less LP for wins and losing more LP for losses.

However, if you maintain a >50% win rate, your MMR will go up, and when it reaches your display rank you will start to earn equal LP for wins and losses.


I'm Silver 5. My current record is 39 - 54 (39 wins out of 93 ranked games played). So the only way I can get to that 50% win rate is if I go on another couple good win streaks, lose 1-2 games, then win 4-5 in a row. Assuming I queue by myself and not with anyone else I play with.

Honestly, I will probably upload another replay or two of mine in the replay review thread so I can get more help in figuring out what I need to do to improve upon.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
October 15 2013 22:47 GMT
#4316
you have to remember that you are only 20% of the team, so winning and losing a game is not always an indicator of how well you played. i know elo hell discussions are banned here but its a primary reason that people get so annoyed with 6-10 game lose streaks
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
October 15 2013 22:49 GMT
#4317
On October 16 2013 07:43 Kinie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2013 07:18 thenexusp wrote:
What rank are you?

Since you are being matched with bronze 3 - silver 5 players, your MMR is in the bronze 3 - silver 5 range. If your displayed rank is higher than that, the LP system will try to push your displayed rank down to where your MMR is. It does this by giving you less LP for wins and losing more LP for losses.

However, if you maintain a >50% win rate, your MMR will go up, and when it reaches your display rank you will start to earn equal LP for wins and losses.


I'm Silver 5. My current record is 39 - 54 (39 wins out of 93 ranked games played). So the only way I can get to that 50% win rate is if I go on another couple good win streaks, lose 1-2 games, then win 4-5 in a row. Assuming I queue by myself and not with anyone else I play with.

Honestly, I will probably upload another replay or two of mine in the replay review thread so I can get more help in figuring out what I need to do to improve upon.

Where is this thread?
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-15 22:55:09
October 15 2013 22:54 GMT
#4318
On October 16 2013 07:43 Kinie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2013 07:18 thenexusp wrote:
What rank are you?

Since you are being matched with bronze 3 - silver 5 players, your MMR is in the bronze 3 - silver 5 range. If your displayed rank is higher than that, the LP system will try to push your displayed rank down to where your MMR is. It does this by giving you less LP for wins and losing more LP for losses.

However, if you maintain a >50% win rate, your MMR will go up, and when it reaches your display rank you will start to earn equal LP for wins and losses.


I'm Silver 5. My current record is 39 - 54 (39 wins out of 93 ranked games played). So the only way I can get to that 50% win rate is if I go on another couple good win streaks, lose 1-2 games, then win 4-5 in a row. Assuming I queue by myself and not with anyone else I play with.

Honestly, I will probably upload another replay or two of mine in the replay review thread so I can get more help in figuring out what I need to do to improve upon.

Honestly, you shouldn't worry about your total win rate that much. Having a 50% win rate in diamond means you're in diamond, having a 50% winrate in bronze means you're in bronze.

Don't worry about your past history. Just know that your MMR is currently around bronze II. If you maintain a winning record from this point onward, your MMR will improve, even if your LP is still stuck at Silver V 0 LP. Once your MMR reaches Silver V, you will start getting equal LP for wins and losses, and your league will start climbing.

EDIT: corrections
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
October 15 2013 23:00 GMT
#4319
On October 16 2013 07:43 Kinie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2013 07:18 thenexusp wrote:
What rank are you?

Since you are being matched with bronze 3 - silver 5 players, your MMR is in the bronze 3 - silver 5 range. If your displayed rank is higher than that, the LP system will try to push your displayed rank down to where your MMR is. It does this by giving you less LP for wins and losing more LP for losses.

However, if you maintain a >50% win rate, your MMR will go up, and when it reaches your display rank you will start to earn equal LP for wins and losses.


I'm Silver 5. My current record is 39 - 54 (39 wins out of 93 ranked games played). So the only way I can get to that 50% win rate is if I go on another couple good win streaks, lose 1-2 games, then win 4-5 in a row. Assuming I queue by myself and not with anyone else I play with.

Honestly, I will probably upload another replay or two of mine in the replay review thread so I can get more help in figuring out what I need to do to improve upon.


Yea so basically the system wants to drop you from Silver 5 to Bronze 1 or Bronze 2 but it can't because can't drop leagues! So until you get your MMR up you will be stuck losing more than you gain.

In good news just working on 1 big thing can help you jump out of Silver 5 pretty easily so I highly recommend posting replays and focusing on practicing in soloq games rather than winning. (If you practice correctly the winning some easily later)
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
October 15 2013 23:11 GMT
#4320
Jungle Leona was played in OGN today
Bronze player stuck in platinum
Prev 1 214 215 216 217 218 383 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Railgan 96
Codebar 65
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 63287
Bisu 3104
FanTaSy 1185
Stork 743
Rush 558
hero 253
Snow 227
firebathero 200
Mind 104
Free 84
[ Show more ]
Last 75
Sexy 64
Sea.KH 63
Pusan 57
Sharp 57
ToSsGirL 42
Trap 33
Bale 28
Mong 25
Hm[arnc] 23
HiyA 21
Rock 19
Terrorterran 18
Aegong 17
yabsab 16
zelot 15
Noble 12
Sacsri 11
scan(afreeca) 10
IntoTheRainbow 9
Shine 7
Dota 2
Gorgc9232
Dendi934
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King92
Other Games
singsing2701
fl0m2388
Liquid`RaSZi1328
B2W.Neo676
Beastyqt650
Mlord409
Happy367
Khaldor333
olofmeister291
KnowMe257
Hui .214
crisheroes191
Chillindude68
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV265
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FT.aCt)Sony4
• niya90s 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV594
League of Legends
• Nemesis4226
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 1340
Upcoming Events
Patches Events
27m
BSL Open Qualifier
4h 27m
BSL Open Qualifier
4h 27m
OSC
8h 27m
Replay Cast
8h 27m
OSC
21h 27m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 20h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
HCC Season 3
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.