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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On April 28 2014 05:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 05:27 Scip wrote:
Pretty sure that at least in sc2 koreans aren't just mechanically best but also smartest Well the other thing is that DotA has may pros that are 25+ and that have been playing the game for like 8+ years that are still at the top of the scene. Their mechanical weakness is simply far less of a disadvantage compared to younger players that their experience and knowledge makes up for it. League simply punishes that mechanical weakness far harder than DotA does.
Probably just shows that the game is dying with no new blood coming in and the ladder system sucks because it doesn't allow talented people to visibly shine
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United States47024 Posts
Or the game is just actually a slower game with more limiters on action speed like animations and turn rates that fundamentally diminishes the advantage gained from mechanical superiority.
You know, like the ones we were JUST discussing?
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both could be valid, seems more likely a combination, having a bad ladder system pre dota 2 gives a huge advantage to the more experienced players especially if people are picking champs for you, having mass experience is important because you can't just play 1 champ and get top of solo q like you can with league back in the dota days
i think it seems silly to assume that 25 year olds are some kind of slow old men though, the reason starcraft 1 guys didnt keep up is because they got wired to the 1 base thought style of play and can't compete with new players coming in adapting to a macro style of play
younger more motivated guys coming into a scene with much higher competition and a completely different games
the skillset that made boxer and nal ra win isnt the same as what made jaedong and flash win.
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On April 28 2014 05:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 04:30 Alaric wrote:
But isn't it super important for kiting autoattacking heroes like Drow, though (esp. with her ult's threshold)? It's a critical element that actually balances melee and ranged carries. Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 04:30 Alaric wrote:
It's the opposite for me, or rather, League lets me "express" myself more, in that because it's less intensive mechanically, I have a lot more time and attention to devote to decision-making, how do I want to do things, planning, mindgames, etc. I actually think the reverse is true. League rewards pure mechanics far more than DotA does. This is pretty clear from how good Koreans are at League vs. how shit they are at DotA, and why DotA has pros that are 25+ that have been professional players for like 6-8 years still at the top of the scene.
My mechanics are what I rely on, my positioning during fights as well, but during lane I lose more often than not if I don't have vision of river since I just die to jungle ganks lol. My laning is strong if it's a pure 2v2, but once it's a 2v3 I fall apart kinda since I do enjoy Ashe/Varus a lot.
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On April 28 2014 05:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 04:30 Alaric wrote:
But isn't it super important for kiting autoattacking heroes like Drow, though (esp. with her ult's threshold)? It's a critical element that actually balances melee and ranged carries.
The lack of (targeted) gap closers, and also maybe of scaling burst to neuter carries in the late game, is balanced by the fact that a ranged carry busy kiting will lose a significant portion of his dps moving around?
Is the difference in tankiness between ranged and melee carries significant in DotA (in terms of itemisation I mean, since melee stats are obviously better in general)?
On April 28 2014 05:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 04:30 Alaric wrote:
It's the opposite for me, or rather, League lets me "express" myself more, in that because it's less intensive mechanically, I have a lot more time and attention to devote to decision-making, how do I want to do things, planning, mindgames, etc. I actually think the reverse is true. League rewards pure mechanics far more than DotA does. This is pretty clear from how good Koreans are at League vs. how shit they are at DotA, and why DotA has pros that are 25+ that have been professional players for like 6-8 years still at the top of the scene.
Hm... maybe I didn't express myself well. Then again I'm not exactly sure.
I guess I wanted to say something along the lines of "regardless of how much each rewards good mechanics, League doesn't punish bad mechanics as hard as DotA", seeing how I'm on the shitter end of the spectrum (and talking in general rather than only in the competitive scene obviously).
Maybe it's the general stuff (League tends to have higher ambient gold iirc, also lack of denies, the level difference is generally tinier than in DotA too so less stats discrepancy) rather than simply a short-term showdown of mechanics.
I mean, I don't think I was secretly vastly better than my opponents, so the fact that the game allowed me to outsmart them to make up for my really shitty mechanics (both cs-ing and general execution) makes me lean toward a "forgiving" nature of the game instead.
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United States47024 Posts
I think it's more likely that your game knowledge in League is simply much greater from having played it more so you have more of it to bring to bear, rather than mechanics being some sort of limiter.
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On April 28 2014 05:28 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 05:27 Scip wrote:
Pretty sure that at least in sc2 koreans aren't just mechanically best but also smartest Well the other thing is that DotA has may pros that are 25+ and that have been playing the game for like 8+ years that are still at the top of the scene. Their mechanical weakness is simply far less of a disadvantage compared to younger players that their experience and knowledge makes up for it. League simply punishes that mechanical weakness far harder than DotA does.
Eh. I think a big part of that is also the fact that the dota 2 pro scene is just incredibly incestuous, especially the Chinese scene. The lack of a proper ladder and amateur scene support means it's ridiculously hard for new talent to break into the scene. League had this same problem early in Season 1; you were either friends with HSGG, Regi, etc...and could potentially go pro or you were nothing.
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Wowowow Coma is so cancer
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On April 28 2014 06:43 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Wowowow Coma is so cancer
confirmed
why?
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On April 28 2014 06:59 jcarlsoniv wrote:confirmed why?
"Yo Ghandi lets play League and get some IP"
"Ok"
-Disconnects at lvl 1
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On April 28 2014 06:33 TheYango wrote:
I think it's more likely that your game knowledge in League is simply much greater from having played it more so you have more of it to bring to bear, rather than mechanics being some sort of limiter.
Hm, I didn't mean in the "I'm Diamond game knowledge/sense but my mechanics hold me back!", actually it's the opposite: I think (and often saw it s3 when I got clamped 3-4 months in silver I) that my mechanics are legit Silver-level, and that I was able to climb higher because my game knowledge and champ pool (a mix of champs like Panth, a low skill-floor champ who let my knowledge of jungler timings play very aggro w/o feeding and abuse his early game, Viktor, relative unknown so I could bring my better knowledge of match-ups to bear, or Jax, champs outscaling hard enough that I could play worse and still win eventually).
I think saying "you can go D I on mechanics/game sense alone even if the other is shitty!" or whatever the claim is, is wrong, but if you mark people on several aspects including mechanics and game knowledge, there'll almost necessarily be a "worst one". Which would probably be a good place to start if one wants to improve since it rounds you up and should theorically be the easiest if it's where you're the most lacking (the stuff you need to get better at isn't as advanced).
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mechanics is basically just last hitting while laning and pretty much is a pointless word to be discussing for any moba
it is applicable in bw just because most people cant hold up 300 apm but its getting ridiculous to think that its anything more than mental agility to be able to last hit while laning
that sort of thing is just a factor or how well rested and healthy and aware you are, its really not hard to last hit its mostly patience and having the energy to pay attention to lane phase while last hitting
most people just call mechanics anything they suck at but don't know why and call decsion making what they think they are good at
like positioning as an ad carry is an ultra complex function of the enemy teams current positions, gold amounts, champions, and skill cooldowns, combined with your allies teams pressure on the other team, available defensive cooldowns from nearby members and other damage threats, and is constantly changing throughout a teamfight. The better players lean on the safe side just because its impossible to get it completely right and a mistake is punished by snap use of cooldowns to insta kill.
calling that mechanics is ridiculous because its nothing to do with how well you can right click but its absolutely something a gold player can use as an excuse for why they lose their adc games all the time (along with my support sucks and my team doesnt protect me)
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United States47024 Posts
On April 28 2014 07:46 Slayer91 wrote:
like positioning as an ad carry is an ultra complex function of the enemy teams current positions, gold amounts, champions, and skill cooldowns, combined with your allies teams pressure on the other team, available defensive cooldowns from nearby members and other damage threats, and is constantly changing throughout a teamfight. The better players lean on the safe side just because its impossible to get it completely right and a mistake is punished by snap use of cooldowns to insta kill.
calling that mechanics is ridiculous because its nothing to do with how well you can right click but its absolutely something a gold player can use as an excuse for why they lose their adc games all the time (along with my support sucks and my team doesnt protect me)
I'm pretty sure we've had this "mechancs" discussion in GD before, and both of us said the same thing, lol.
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I'm calling this mechanics because I missclick my target and move besides him instead of autoing him. Because I miss my aa-reset skill timing when diving by a fraction of a second when tower diving and die for it. Because I miss skillshots where I predict in my head where the guy'll go but send it flying elsewhere. Because when I'm diving a teamfight as Olaf to execute a carry I'll have trouble E-ing the right guy if there're 2-3 stacked together. Because my stutter-stepping as Jax leaves a lot to be desired despite having the Phage passive on my side.
etc. etc.  I've always been "slow" in terms of reaction time (not just League), but I could def. improve my clicking accuracy and speed.
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On April 28 2014 01:45 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2014 13:31 MoonBear wrote:
Well that's sort of like Barrier if it gave magic immunity. The most accurate analogy would be a Black Shield cast by a Morgana with infinite AP. Also, Cixah: red, milo and I might be doing more newbie learning stacks this week.
Sounds good, I'm off Until wednesday so I have all the time in the world. After tonight atleast.
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I try not to spend my gold on packs but next thing you know I have seven packs and no gold. Instant gratification is too strong.
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On April 28 2014 08:01 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2014 07:46 Slayer91 wrote:
like positioning as an ad carry is an ultra complex function of the enemy teams current positions, gold amounts, champions, and skill cooldowns, combined with your allies teams pressure on the other team, available defensive cooldowns from nearby members and other damage threats, and is constantly changing throughout a teamfight. The better players lean on the safe side just because its impossible to get it completely right and a mistake is punished by snap use of cooldowns to insta kill.
calling that mechanics is ridiculous because its nothing to do with how well you can right click but its absolutely something a gold player can use as an excuse for why they lose their adc games all the time (along with my support sucks and my team doesnt protect me) I'm pretty sure we've had this "mechancs" discussion in GD before, and both of us said the same thing, lol.
Right click accuracy and timing of inputs is harder than you guys give credit for. I have a similar experience with Alaric in regards to this topic.
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I think I've said this before, but I feel like League is the 'lazier' game(my opinion). When I play League, it's not that I have nothing to think about, but I do feel like there is a lot less, and I can sort of tunnel vision more on a task without being punished, because really all I need to do is be mildly aware of the map, especially early in the game. When I do that in DotA I probably end up dying or got someone else on my team killed because TP support/ganks exist, smoke exists, invis and haste runes exist, and there just generally seems to be more going on, even if it doesn't always end in crazy high kill blood baths.
Mechanically I just play the game and don't think about it, although League probably has more high apm champs than DotA has high apm heroes(but Visage so gud).
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So I'll be participating in my first painting contest! It's the third in the series that this store is holding: the first was 5-man Infantry Squads, the second was Monstrous Creatures and large Vehicles. This one's going to be medium sized: Terminator-sized Infantry, Walkers, and other various things like Bikes/Beasts/etc. The only stipulation other than that is that they can't have been painted in any way before the start of the contest (today).
For me, I can use my Destroyer squadron, Heavy Destroyers, or my Stalker. Alternatively, I could pick up a Dreadnaught for my upcoming Blood Angels/Lamenters army.
However it goes, I'm looking forward to working hard on this one!
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Just played against a guy named Alaric on NA
priest v priest
He plays cleric and buffs the shit out of it with 2 pw:s, draws a million cards each turn by using circle of healing
Doesn't play any real cards though, thoughtsteals another pws from me, burns through his whole deck in 7 turns after he plays a second cleric and I heal his minions
Too gud
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EPT
