On August 01 2013 10:09 SagaZ wrote: you have to be crazy if you think dota was even on a comparable scale with what LoL is today
princexizor is the guy who got laughed out of this forum, went to dota, then got laughed out of the dota forums and now he's back here pretending he's part of the dota crew lol
LOL. if you think that you are mistaken sir. I've played dota far longer than i've even known about TL.
phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
On August 01 2013 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
I think a lot of it has to do with what riot wants out of them. Also I hate how they use kobe and jatt as figures of authority in analysis cuz they used to be pro players, when in reality pro scene in NA has evolved soooo much that any understanding of the game they had before are untransferable to modern LoL
On August 01 2013 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
I think a lot of it has to do with what riot wants out of them. Also I hate how they use kobe and jatt as figures of authority in analysis cuz they used to be pro players, when in reality pro scene in NA has evolved soooo much that any understanding of the game they had before are untransferable to modern LoL
Kobe and Jatt aren't just using their Season 1 game experience to analyze though... it's something that they research, watch VODs, and talk to pros about too. I don't think that being a former pro should be required to be an analyst but it's not like Jatt nad Kobe just aren't doing their jobs
On August 01 2013 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
I think a lot of it has to do with what riot wants out of them. Also I hate how they use kobe and jatt as figures of authority in analysis cuz they used to be pro players, when in reality pro scene in NA has evolved soooo much that any understanding of the game they had before are untransferable to modern LoL
yea but like, they watch every NA game, they have the skills to interoperate what they are watching if they put in the effort. I mean I agree to an extent but please keep in mind 2 of the best analytic casters in all of Esports (Artosis&Monte) have never qualified for any major tournament in the current game they cast.
On August 01 2013 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
I think a lot of it has to do with what riot wants out of them. Also I hate how they use kobe and jatt as figures of authority in analysis cuz they used to be pro players, when in reality pro scene in NA has evolved soooo much that any understanding of the game they had before are untransferable to modern LoL
Kobe and Jatt aren't just using their Season 1 game experience to analyze though... it's something that they research, watch VODs, and talk to pros about too. I don't think that being a former pro should be required to be an analyst but it's not like Jatt nad Kobe just aren't doing their jobs
On August 01 2013 10:20 NeoIllusions wrote: You guys have really high standards when it comes to casters. o.o
I have no standards, youw atch games for entertainment, not to try to learn to become a progamer lol. As long as they give an entertaining atmosphere, it's fine, it's the people who feel like they have to tryhard it up that are meh.
On August 01 2013 10:04 TheYango wrote: Even the most liberal estimates of DotA's playerbase put it at 15-20 million (the best cite-able number provided was a figure saying 13-15 million in 2010 by Icefrog, everything since then is extrapolation). Saying it broke 32 million is entirely speculative and quite unlikely.
Its pretty impossible to prove a 1:1 player to download ratio, just like its impossible to prove a 1:1 active account to player ratio. BUt 30 million downloads of the maps and 30 million active accounts are roughly similar in their uncertainty.
Where are you pulling your DotA stats from?
Even then, the LoL scene in the West is far larger than any prior esports scene has ever been. BW, DotA, and CS never had established leagues in the West. Any established league that lasted for at least a year were purely confined to China and S. Korea. Riot's micromanagement of the LoL pro scene can be argued to be good or bad, but one thing you absolutely can't deny is how fast and how well it cemented the concept of "pro gaming" into the Western audience.
SC2 attempted to do that, but I will argue that they largely failed due to complete lack of input from Blizzard. For a long time, any knowledge of the SC2 pro scene was restricted to more hardcore players and/or people aware of the GSL. Dota 2 didn't really have a super established pro scene in that the majority of the pro teams were constantly disbanding and shuffling players until Valve straight up said no TI invite for teams that shuffled. Dota 2 pro scene outside of Asia and top tier EU teams like Na'vi would arguably not even exist if it wasn't for Valve's TI being such a huge presence. You can also argue that TI is basically Dota 2's version of LCS; year long qualification (for invites) culminating in a huge tourney. Teams that don't place tend to disband or reshuffle.
No matter how you look at it, company control/interaction builds a community that's receptive and knowledgeable of a professional scene. The more extensive, the more community interaction with the scene.
On August 01 2013 10:20 NeoIllusions wrote: You guys have really high standards when it comes to casters. o.o
If you don't have high standards with what you want out of a scene how will it ever grow to be better. If everyone was happy with original phreak casting, why would he have any reason to improve, and beginner phreak becomes the standard.
On August 01 2013 10:20 NeoIllusions wrote: You guys have really high standards when it comes to casters. o.o
it might not be this way for you, but for most people who get really into a game and spend a lot of time thinking about it and understanding it, casting has to be really good or it becomes excruciating very quickly. I actually can't stand watching rivington cast, I just turn the computer off and go do something else if it comes down to that or muting the stream.
On August 01 2013 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
I think a lot of it has to do with what riot wants out of them. Also I hate how they use kobe and jatt as figures of authority in analysis cuz they used to be pro players, when in reality pro scene in NA has evolved soooo much that any understanding of the game they had before are untransferable to modern LoL
yea but like, they watch every NA game, they have the skills to interoperate what they are watching if they put in the effort. I mean I agree to an extent but please keep in mind 2 of the best analytic casters in all of Esports (Artosis&Monte) have never qualified for any major tournament in the current game they cast.
That's not entirely true. Artosis was a decently successful pro at the beginning of SC2's release/beta. He played in a few GSLs if I remember correctly. Artosis never placed tho.
I honestly think all the casters are fine... Riv isn't the most knowledgeable but he's entertaining and to be completely honest, sometimes I can't really tell who's saying what lol... As long as the casters keep me awake and intrigued I'm ok.
On August 01 2013 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
I think a lot of it has to do with what riot wants out of them. Also I hate how they use kobe and jatt as figures of authority in analysis cuz they used to be pro players, when in reality pro scene in NA has evolved soooo much that any understanding of the game they had before are untransferable to modern LoL
yea but like, they watch every NA game, they have the skills to interoperate what they are watching if they put in the effort. I mean I agree to an extent but please keep in mind 2 of the best analytic casters in all of Esports (Artosis&Monte) have never qualified for any major tournament in the current game they cast.
That's not entirely true. Artosis was a decently successful pro at the beginning of SC2's release/beta. He played in a few GSLs if I remember correctly. Artosis never placed tho.
Artosis qualified for GSL 1 and played in a few really early NA tournaments for MYM so he was kinda pro at the start. Also a better example would be D.Apollo, he's hands down one of the best analysts and he came from command and conquer.
On August 01 2013 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
Can't do in-depth analysis when the highest you've ever personally been is Gold. Until we get ex-Pros casting the best they can do is just provide entertainment and commentate on what is happening.
The progress isn't exclusively driven by criticism of the audience, it is also driven by the other casters who surpass the original ones. Assuming the audience cares at least a little bit about the quality of casting, despite not being very critical (or at all) of the original ones.
On August 01 2013 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
Can't do in-depth analysis when the highest you've ever personally been is Gold. Until we get ex-Pros casting the best they can do is just provide entertainment and commentate on what is happening.
a grimmer outlook is that because people will almost certainly not stop being pros in the west until they are leaving the scene altogether or are just significantly worse than others, There will never been high quality analysis in LCS.
On August 01 2013 10:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: phreak understands that streams are primarily for entertainment, and he casts accordingly
better that than tryhard shitty casters who try to pretend they're doing deep analysis or some shit when the depth of their analysis is equivalent to saying staying alive is good and dying is bad lol
Can't do in-depth analysis when the highest you've ever personally been is Gold. Until we get ex-Pros casting the best they can do is just provide entertainment and commentate on what is happening.
Phreak I think is fine because while he's not the deepest analyst, I don't think he has many facepalm moments(miscasting is different than analysing wrong). As a diamond level player he still has solid understanding of fundamentals.
Riv IIRC is like a silver level player. And it shows.
Monte doesn't even play the game much, but he watches literally every vod of every lol event ever, and that counts for a lot. He has an understanding of tactics, drafting and the various meta's that only a few people in the world could match.
EPT
