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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 21 2013 09:00 AsianEcksDragon wrote: But why buy a philo when you can buy spirit stone? Are you rushing shurelia? Oh I wouldn't, I'm just saying, that the countergank is at like some legendary status that I don't really observe that often in my play, and even on Diamond Streams up to OGN (which shouldnt count because of how totally different an elite level organized game is played). | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
What lastpass does is shut down if the password server has too much bandwith in transactions and it hides all its passwords in tons of gigabytes of junk data. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had the passwords to 80% of Riot's base right now. I'm not saying that's necessarily true, but from my novice perspective a database only needs 1 query to get all the users' data. It's not a likely hard query to run either. Before anyone realized what was going on you could have all the hashed passwords for riot's users and their emails and usernames in an excel spreadsheet. Then you just have to look at some passwords that have been leaked in the past for other companies that were stored as plain text. Then you run these passwords through Riot's salt to hash them the same way that Riot did. Now you can compare hashes to hashes and figure out what the plain text passwords of Riot's users is. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On August 21 2013 08:28 Ryuu314 wrote: In S2, you could afford to go philo since Shurelya's was so good. Now, not only is Philo a dead-end item, you can get comparable (arguably better) stats from going spirit stone, which also builds into some of the most cost-efficient items in the game. Philo is just simply strictly worse than the alternatives. Shurelya's would be the end goal, and you might even be able to rush it, as is I just get the GP5 and sit on it. Philo + Spirit stone is amazing sustain in the jungle, and Shurelya's is pretty good with certain champs (mainly the S2 ones I am referring to). For example with Maokai getting it would be fine, as it's very nice with Twisted advance. On August 21 2013 09:07 koreasilver wrote: Philo stone isn't bad on junglers in abstract. Honestly, the main reason why philo stone was good on junglers wasn't because of the gp5 but because of the sustain it gave. On Udyr, for example, it allowed for you to run around the map using bear stance a bit without running out of mana. But philo stone on junglers is obsolete now because of spirit stone. While philo might still give more mana regen than spirit stone, spirit stone builds out of machete, and spirit stone itself gives you a lot of clearing speed while also building into really good items. As it is presently, there's no reason to get philo stone over spirit stone unless you want to get both (don't, it sucks). I have, it's been nothing but amazing. The sustain is pretty nice and it's the only way I find I reliably end up not poor as shit (poor meaning more gold than your teams support, less than everyone else on the team by 1k+). I don't know, I go off on random shit once in awhile maybe this is another, but I have been struggling like hell since 3.10 and the only things I have had reliable success with are strong counter jungler/gankers like Shyv/Lee (who obv don't build GP5), and old school shit like Mao S2 style. And as others said, counterganking is WAYYYY overrated. The amount of times I have shown up to do a nice counter gank and my lane goes wildly all in and just dies before I get to him is so damn high. Hell yesterday had Hec vs Nasus (I was nasus) with them on purple side and Hec duo with their top. I tell Ryze he will lvl 3 gank top and i will be there (tho which he replies "I got 2 wards, dont worry" while proceeding to place none). I get there inches behind Hec and Ryze all in's Teemo lv 2 under a tower and dies. I may only be in Gold, but at least there counterganking is something that most of the time happens by accident. Also jungle routes are stupid predictable now with everyone lvl 3 ganking top, so if I am worried about it, I just start opposite and hit another lane lvl 3. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
![[image loading]](http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/August_2013/BSZITAPP/PoolParty_Comic.jpg) | ||
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smOOthMayDie
United States997 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On August 21 2013 09:29 smOOthMayDie wrote: Is that supposed to be Leona? Yes | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On August 21 2013 09:24 onlywonderboy wrote: Dat Graves skin snip Sunbathing Leona AND lifeguard Renekton to boot? Wat's the last one... Also, I have a propensity of running full GP10 runes/masteries and rushing Philo/Kage/sightstone on Nami/Janna. Suboptimal? Yes, though I end up hitting full support items by 30-40 minutes. The extra itemization I end up having is quite nice. So many buttonz. | ||
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Haiq343
United States2548 Posts
On August 21 2013 09:32 Lord Tolkien wrote: Sunbathing Leona AND lifeguard Renekton to boot? Wat's the last one... Also, I have a propensity of running full GP10 runes/masteries and rushing Philo/Kage/sightstone on Nami/Janna. Suboptimal? Yes, though I end up hitting full support items by 30-40 minutes. The extra itemization I end up having is quite nice. So many buttonz. Lee Sin. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 21 2013 09:32 Lord Tolkien wrote: Suboptimal? Yes, though I end up hitting full support items by 30-40 minutes. The extra itemization I end up having is quite nice. You'd hit full support items buying DBlade and DShield as well. And despite the fact that they cost less than Philo and Kage, they actually give more relevant stats. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On August 21 2013 09:16 obesechicken13 wrote: I always lose respect for companies that don't have enough password security. Our only option now is to really have an application that saves all our passwords so we can remember complex passwords. Xkcd's password can be dictionary brute force broken. But Riot's database was hacked or sold away. What lastpass does is shut down if the password server has too much bandwith in transactions and it hides all its passwords in tons of gigabytes of junk data. I wouldn't be surprised if someone had the passwords to 80% of Riot's base right now. I'm not saying that's necessarily true, but from my novice perspective a database only needs 1 query to get all the users' data. It's not a likely hard query to run either. Before anyone realized what was going on you could have all the hashed passwords for riot's users and their emails and usernames in an excel spreadsheet. Then you just have to look at some passwords that have been leaked in the past for other companies that were stored as plain text. Then you run these passwords through Riot's salt to hash them the same way that Riot did. Now you can compare hashes to hashes and figure out what the plain text passwords of Riot's users is. There's some wrong information in here and I'll just go point by point: - This is why you never, ever reuse the same password for multiple sites. - xkcd's 4x dictionary words approach cannot be brute forced. The idea is that the combination of 4 (random, independent) dictionary words cannot be brute-forced, because each additional word multiplicatively increases the brute-force time.. Say the words are taken from the 10,000 most common words. A password containing a single dictionary word might be brute-forced in 0.01 second. But 4 dictionary words together exponentially increases the number of possible passwords. so instead of 10,000 things to search through you have 10,000,000,000,000,000. This takes 10,000,000,000 seconds, which is hundreds of years. - You can get all the hashes and salts, but as long as your password is decently secure your password should still be safe. The whole point of salting & hashing your passwords is to mitigate the damage in the case of a database break-in. - You misunderstand how password salts work. There isn't a single "Riot salt" that is applied to each password. Each user has his own salt, which is stored in the database in the same row as the user. The idea is to make it so that one can't create a comprehensive table of password->hash combinations to immediately break large sections of the database; you have to redo the work for each user because each user has a different salt. - You should never use a password that's been leaked on one of the plaintext leaks. If you have an original, secure password, chances are you're fine. - One way to check your password security is by asking "if the attacker knew what form my password took, how many other passwords are possible?" For example, if your password form was "common dictionary word followed by a number", there are about 10,000*10 = 100,000 possible passwords, which is horribly insecure. If you use "common dictionary word with some letters in leetspeak" you have 10,000*16ish (assuming 4 possible letters to substitute or not), which is still bad. You want something on the order of 10^14 at least, more if you're paranoid about future advances in technology. - On the other hand, you don't need the most secure password; all you need to be is have a harder-to-crack password than the next guy. If someone were to comb through Riot's databases, and finds 100,000 people who have passwords that can be cracked in 3 minutes, he's not going to bother with yours if yours takes an hour to crack (even if it is theoretically doable). (Still, it's probably better to go with passwords that will take thousands of years) And more stuff... - A list of the 10,000 most common passwords: http://pastebin.com/Y1Tx2hA9 There are some interesting things on here. For example, "zaqxsw". If you think about it, you might see how someone would use this password... Needless to say, if your password appears here you are very unsafe. | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
On August 21 2013 09:16 obesechicken13 wrote: Then you just have to look at some passwords that have been leaked in the past for other companies that were stored as plain text. Then you run these passwords through Riot's salt to hash them the same way that Riot did. Now you can compare hashes to hashes and figure out what the plain text passwords of Riot's users is. that's only possible if riot used a single salt for all the passwords, which would be really really stupid. You can get on riot for not offering enough account security/basic multi-factor authentication options, but it doesn't seem like they're storing sensitive data in an insecure way. | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
4 normal words are kind of genius, but how many account sites allow you to do that, normally they restrict you to 16 letter maximum, no? | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On August 21 2013 10:10 Complete wrote: Do you need vision of someone to cast expunge (Twitch E) and do dmg? Don't think so, but it does have a finite range. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On August 21 2013 09:52 TheYango wrote: You'd hit full support items buying DBlade and DShield as well. And despite the fact that they cost less than Philo and Kage, they actually give more relevant stats. Dshield yes, not very sold on Dblade. Certainly, the extra AD on top of the HP is nice, but the Dblade passive is wasted on a support, and isn't a viable source of regen (while a Sup generally doesn't have the arpen/AS/AD ratios to effectively use the AD to the same degree as an ADC). Dshield is absolutely effective on supports (esp melee supports like Leona), however it limits the lane to one ward (plus explorer), which is certainly exploitable if the lane phase is decently long. You can get away with it early because junglers start bot-lane jungle to top-side buff to mid/top gank (which means jungle pressure bottom lane doesn't start until ~4:30min), but past ~4min warding against the jungler means that 1 ward is insufficient (you can either cover river or lane), and for a melee support, it's particularly dangerous. It's a risky gambit, even on supports like Nami/Janna whom are naturally difficult to gank (MS/CC/Ranged), and I wouldn't feel comfortable without 2 wards (one for a lane bush, one for the river). DBlade start doesn't even offer 1 ward (and as a later buy, its effectiveness is diminished). However, neither Dshield nor Dblade improve support mana economy, which is principally what Philo Stone is for nowadays (as well as building into Shureylas; the GP10 is nice, but it merely speeds up item builds, and shureylas still hits most of the necessary support stats). With a Support like Nami, Sona, or even Janna, mana is generally the limiting constraint to their laning presence (and the Shureylas active meshes well with their playstyle). I tend to start with mana&health beads, which allows for a fast philo (due to runes). The other option to buying a philo is potions, but over time, the cost for pots stack up, so I tend to think of philo as additionally covering the cost of buying those pots. That being said, rushing a Sightstone is likely better because it counts as its own GP10 (and hands down I would think for melee supports who need to be tanky during the lane phase). | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On August 21 2013 10:10 Complete wrote: Do you need vision of someone to cast expunge (Twitch E) and do dmg? Was probably out of range, while you had expunge stacks on a closer target. | ||
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