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Interested in helping start an on-topic, serious League discussion thread? PM Neo to talk about how to get started. |
On June 22 2013 15:50 SagaZ wrote:
Why don't the people that want that diamond only thread just not make one to try and see how it turns out?
If you really want one so bad, don't wait for others to do it for you
Because there would be no way to stop people from posting in the thread that are like Bronze or Plat or w/e lvl you cut it off at. Would literally just turn into a giant thread with people argueing over who is who and no discussion happens at all because no one can verify who is who.
If you want a more serious discussion read the note at the top of the thread and PM Neo about it.
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On June 22 2013 15:45 upperbound wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 15:33 sylverfyre wrote:On June 22 2013 15:20 upperbound wrote:On June 22 2013 15:01 Ketara wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
A TROLLS Strategy: Level 1 buff donations
When the new jungle changes came out to change all spawn timers to 1:55, most people were concerned with whether or not the Jungler would still hit level 3 from two buff camps. Can anybody leech EXP? Can bot lane still do golems? Is the jungler affected positively or negatively by this?
However, we have found that this is not the correct question we should be asking. The correct question is "Who are we going to give the other buff to?"
Because junglers are not doing a camp at 1:40, there is effectively one extra jungle camp that they can do in their first clear. While a jungler can go Buff -> Buff and be level 3 at 3 minutes, they can also go Buff -> Wolves -> Wraiths -> Golems for level 3 at about 3:30, depending a little bit on how fast the jungler clears.
This frees up a laner to take the other buff, and go into lane at level 2 with a blue or red buff. The jungler does buff 1 with a single players and smites it, while the other 3 players do buff 2. The junglers smite will be up right around on time for double golems, possibly a little late if they're a fast clearer but then they don't much care anyway. This does require a little coordination in champion select in terms of what side are you on and what 3 players are doing which buff, but the outcome is very much worth it. Finally, the 3 people doing the buff leave the small lizards for the jungler to clear, so that the buffs do not spawn at the same time and you can secure one after the other later in the game.
Allowing a laner to come into lane at level 2 with blue or red buff creates certain matchups that are extremely one sided. We have tested this in 12 games so far, most as premades vs. other unsuspecting premades in draft normals. In 11 of 12 games the outcome was the buff donated lane absolutely dominating, often times having a 2-3 level lead and doubling or tripling the CS of their opponent. We tended to prefer mid lane for the buff donation, since applying pressure in mid applies the most global pressure, and it is a little easier to coordinate the mid laner taking a buff for either side. However, this strategy is versatile and can be applied to any lane.
So far we've tried the following:
Giving either blue or red to Kayle, to come into lane with Q and E. Both blue and red resulted in the lane won almost immediately.
Giving blue to Cassiopeia. This was probably the most successful, we saw Cassiopeia killing the enemy mid before the second minion wave had spawned.
Giving red to a mid lane Quinn. Also quite effective, it allowed Quinn to get level 6 very quickly while shutting the enemy mid down and then roam.
Giving red to a mid lane Wukong. This actually ended with a fight in the river and Wukong coming out with 4 kills, largely due to being level 2 in a level 1 fight.
Giving red to Caitlyn in both bot and mid lane, to come into lane with Q, E and red buff. This dramatically increased Caitlyn's bullying potential, when we tried it in bot lane she got a doublekill as soon as she came into lane.
Giving red to a Tristana and then lane swapping her to 2v1 the enemy top lane. Also very effective.
For junglers, we focused on champions who did not necessarily need both buffs to get things done. Zac, Karthus, Shen and Shaco were used. In the Shaco games we focused on also doing an early jungle invade, while the others would mostly just farm and play normally. Karthus was possibly the most effective. Karthus can give red to a mid laner, take all the blue buffs, and just go Wolves->Wraiths->Golems->Wolves->Wraiths->Golems until level 6. With this pattern Karthus hits level 6 with the 7 minute blue buff and can then begin to press R.
There are a lot more junglers that we'd like to try with this, as well as a lot more laners with scary level 2's. What we like most about this strategy, aside from the fact that it has been incredibly successful in all but one test game (where we admittedly derped), is that it is incredibly versatile. There are all sorts of champions with scary level 2 kill potential, and all sorts of junglers that do not absolutely have to have both buffs, or absolutely have to gank at 3 minutes. Given the right buff transfer to the right person, you are delaying the jungler 30 seconds, but guaranteeing one of your lanes wins, and wins hard.
We think this is by far the best strategy we've ever come up with in TROLLS, and think you guys should totally try it out for yourselves.
This is quite a cool idea in compositions that can abuse it. Did you guys ever get invaded while you tried this? How did you react? If the buff that the jungler is at gets invaded I can see it being devastating for him. EDIT: Added spoiler tags. We actually did get invaded a few times, and it still worked out. The one lane with the buff just puts out so much pressure it's not even funny. Or we'd lose the buff that the laner intended to take one or two games, but they had to commit really hard to secure it and lost exp due to it. I think, just like vs. any invade, proper warding and awareness of how to play out level 1s + knowledge of where the enemy team is would handle it and make this strategy no weaker to invades than previous patches where top+mid lane would take wraiths or golems pretty often. It also had the side effect of screweing up a lot of counter jungling because we would have no buff available right from 2:00. Interesting! I was also gonna ask about lane swaps, but I doubt that came up in premade normals. The season 2 "give blue buff to Olaf and let him farm with axes" kind of gave a glimpse into that potential, but I'm having a hard time seeing the way gifting red buff would play out in such lanes. I have a feeling that people might explore this some more, I certainly would like to.
We actually lane swapped a few times. When you're on purple side you kind of need your duo lane to be top or mid because you need 3 people to kill Red buff in a timely manner without Smite. In other cases, we simply picked junglers who liked starting Red but didn't really need Blue and passed the latter buff off instead (the Cassiopeia games).
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United States37500 Posts
On June 22 2013 15:41 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 15:28 cascades wrote:On June 22 2013 15:18 Zooper31 wrote:
We alrdy went over why having a Diamond+ or w/e you wanna call it was a bad idea. It only stands to fragment the community and take away discussion from everyone. That's why it is an excellent idea. Taking away discussion from "everyone" in one thread is a great idea, and all that fragmentation talk is slippery slope fear mongering that noone has backed up. Let's be honest, TL LoL is a small subcommunity, It doesn't make sense for us to fragment/distinguish people because everybody should very quickly know who the good posters are. There's no need to make them stand out because they already stand out. Likewise bad posters can be quickly moderated because there simply isn't that much volume. Again, the idea made sense in the SC2 subforums because of the nature of that forum. After SC2's release the posting volume absolutely exploded making conventional moderation impossible, and likewise there were too many posters to know everyone. This kind of thing was only a last resort used because for such a massive number of posters it was the best available solution. It simply is not useful in a subforum where the moderation arguably outstrips the needs of the subforum (I would posit that the staff-to-active-poster ratio in this subforum is relatively high compared to other parts of the site) and people tend to know who people are very quickly. Maybe it will have more merit if TL ever became officially supported LoL and we had a massive influx of new posters, but as is, you should know who is who, at least among the regular posters. If the concern is the off-topic/meaningless discussion in GD, then that is an issue with moderation or with the possibility of splitting GD into 2 threads. Having a Diamond-only subforum/thread is not the most practical solution to an issue that's ultimately a moderation/organizational issue.
TL;DR Nice idea but we don't have enough actual Diamond/Challenger players to make such a project worthwhile. G_G
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On June 22 2013 15:55 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 15:41 TheYango wrote:On June 22 2013 15:28 cascades wrote:On June 22 2013 15:18 Zooper31 wrote:
We alrdy went over why having a Diamond+ or w/e you wanna call it was a bad idea. It only stands to fragment the community and take away discussion from everyone. That's why it is an excellent idea. Taking away discussion from "everyone" in one thread is a great idea, and all that fragmentation talk is slippery slope fear mongering that noone has backed up. Let's be honest, TL LoL is a small subcommunity, It doesn't make sense for us to fragment/distinguish people because everybody should very quickly know who the good posters are. There's no need to make them stand out because they already stand out. Likewise bad posters can be quickly moderated because there simply isn't that much volume. Again, the idea made sense in the SC2 subforums because of the nature of that forum. After SC2's release the posting volume absolutely exploded making conventional moderation impossible, and likewise there were too many posters to know everyone. This kind of thing was only a last resort used because for such a massive number of posters it was the best available solution. It simply is not useful in a subforum where the moderation arguably outstrips the needs of the subforum (I would posit that the staff-to-active-poster ratio in this subforum is relatively high compared to other parts of the site) and people tend to know who people are very quickly. Maybe it will have more merit if TL ever became officially supported LoL and we had a massive influx of new posters, but as is, you should know who is who, at least among the regular posters. If the concern is the off-topic/meaningless discussion in GD, then that is an issue with moderation or with the possibility of splitting GD into 2 threads. Having a Diamond-only subforum/thread is not the most practical solution to an issue that's ultimately a moderation/organizational issue. TL;DR Nice idea but we don't have enough actual Diamond/Challenger players to make such a project worthwhile. G_G
Include Plat. Also, because TL LoL is a small community as we are all fond of saying, we can slowly include insightful gold/silver players that may have something to contribute, and know when to post and when to shutup,
Yango: "Bad" posters are moderated because they go against ToS, but "bad" posters who post "bad garbage" don't. You are failing to see the distinction.
It was a last resort in SC2's case. They also did it way too late to save their subforum.
It is possible to mentally filter like you said. Just because you can tolerate such an environment, doesn't mean the likes of tolkien and nyx want to.
Ask yourself honestly, is the quality of discussion now better than it was, say 6 months ago? Name other posters besides yourself who have persevered.
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United States47024 Posts
On June 22 2013 15:46 Brambled wrote:
I still have dreams of a TL sponsored team! I miss watching numbers and the other guys compete. Felt so much like rooting for your home team.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I realize that official LoL support is a complex issue, and that we can't really haphazardly ask for it.
I don't know how many of you were already on the site when SC2 was released, but SC2 drastically transformed TL as a site, in ways that many vets will say was not necessarily good. There was an enormous influx of new users that dwarfed anything the site had seen before. A lot of new measures needed to be put in place to handle the new volume of traffic (Banlings for one), and some people will say the general posting quality went down a lot with the new SC2 users on the site.
LoL had 32 million active users as of October 2012 (probably 40 million+ by now). SC2 only sold 4.5 million copies in the first 6 months. LoL has almost 10 times as many active users now as SC2 even sold copies in the first 6 months. Even if we account for a fact that a smaller fraction of LoL players are even interested in a competitive-oriented site like TL compared to SC2 players, we're looking at a new user surge on TL at least an order of magnitude larger than what we got when SC2 came out. That wouldn't just change TL LoL. That would change the entire site. And I'm not sure I like the direction that TL could be headed if we got that much more traffic. We would for sure lose a lot of what makes TL TL, and I don't think that sacrifice is worth making LoL "official".
On June 22 2013 16:10 cascades wrote:
Yango: "Bad" posters are moderated because they go against ToS, but "bad" posters who post "bad garbage" don't. You are failing to see the distinction.
That's actually entirely at Neo's discretion. We could start banning for stupid shit if we really wanted to.
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On June 22 2013 15:55 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 15:45 upperbound wrote:On June 22 2013 15:33 sylverfyre wrote:On June 22 2013 15:20 upperbound wrote:On June 22 2013 15:01 Ketara wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
A TROLLS Strategy: Level 1 buff donations
When the new jungle changes came out to change all spawn timers to 1:55, most people were concerned with whether or not the Jungler would still hit level 3 from two buff camps. Can anybody leech EXP? Can bot lane still do golems? Is the jungler affected positively or negatively by this?
However, we have found that this is not the correct question we should be asking. The correct question is "Who are we going to give the other buff to?"
Because junglers are not doing a camp at 1:40, there is effectively one extra jungle camp that they can do in their first clear. While a jungler can go Buff -> Buff and be level 3 at 3 minutes, they can also go Buff -> Wolves -> Wraiths -> Golems for level 3 at about 3:30, depending a little bit on how fast the jungler clears.
This frees up a laner to take the other buff, and go into lane at level 2 with a blue or red buff. The jungler does buff 1 with a single players and smites it, while the other 3 players do buff 2. The junglers smite will be up right around on time for double golems, possibly a little late if they're a fast clearer but then they don't much care anyway. This does require a little coordination in champion select in terms of what side are you on and what 3 players are doing which buff, but the outcome is very much worth it. Finally, the 3 people doing the buff leave the small lizards for the jungler to clear, so that the buffs do not spawn at the same time and you can secure one after the other later in the game.
Allowing a laner to come into lane at level 2 with blue or red buff creates certain matchups that are extremely one sided. We have tested this in 12 games so far, most as premades vs. other unsuspecting premades in draft normals. In 11 of 12 games the outcome was the buff donated lane absolutely dominating, often times having a 2-3 level lead and doubling or tripling the CS of their opponent. We tended to prefer mid lane for the buff donation, since applying pressure in mid applies the most global pressure, and it is a little easier to coordinate the mid laner taking a buff for either side. However, this strategy is versatile and can be applied to any lane.
So far we've tried the following:
Giving either blue or red to Kayle, to come into lane with Q and E. Both blue and red resulted in the lane won almost immediately.
Giving blue to Cassiopeia. This was probably the most successful, we saw Cassiopeia killing the enemy mid before the second minion wave had spawned.
Giving red to a mid lane Quinn. Also quite effective, it allowed Quinn to get level 6 very quickly while shutting the enemy mid down and then roam.
Giving red to a mid lane Wukong. This actually ended with a fight in the river and Wukong coming out with 4 kills, largely due to being level 2 in a level 1 fight.
Giving red to Caitlyn in both bot and mid lane, to come into lane with Q, E and red buff. This dramatically increased Caitlyn's bullying potential, when we tried it in bot lane she got a doublekill as soon as she came into lane.
Giving red to a Tristana and then lane swapping her to 2v1 the enemy top lane. Also very effective.
For junglers, we focused on champions who did not necessarily need both buffs to get things done. Zac, Karthus, Shen and Shaco were used. In the Shaco games we focused on also doing an early jungle invade, while the others would mostly just farm and play normally. Karthus was possibly the most effective. Karthus can give red to a mid laner, take all the blue buffs, and just go Wolves->Wraiths->Golems->Wolves->Wraiths->Golems until level 6. With this pattern Karthus hits level 6 with the 7 minute blue buff and can then begin to press R.
There are a lot more junglers that we'd like to try with this, as well as a lot more laners with scary level 2's. What we like most about this strategy, aside from the fact that it has been incredibly successful in all but one test game (where we admittedly derped), is that it is incredibly versatile. There are all sorts of champions with scary level 2 kill potential, and all sorts of junglers that do not absolutely have to have both buffs, or absolutely have to gank at 3 minutes. Given the right buff transfer to the right person, you are delaying the jungler 30 seconds, but guaranteeing one of your lanes wins, and wins hard.
We think this is by far the best strategy we've ever come up with in TROLLS, and think you guys should totally try it out for yourselves.
This is quite a cool idea in compositions that can abuse it. Did you guys ever get invaded while you tried this? How did you react? If the buff that the jungler is at gets invaded I can see it being devastating for him. EDIT: Added spoiler tags. We actually did get invaded a few times, and it still worked out. The one lane with the buff just puts out so much pressure it's not even funny. Or we'd lose the buff that the laner intended to take one or two games, but they had to commit really hard to secure it and lost exp due to it. I think, just like vs. any invade, proper warding and awareness of how to play out level 1s + knowledge of where the enemy team is would handle it and make this strategy no weaker to invades than previous patches where top+mid lane would take wraiths or golems pretty often. It also had the side effect of screweing up a lot of counter jungling because we would have no buff available right from 2:00. Interesting! I was also gonna ask about lane swaps, but I doubt that came up in premade normals. The season 2 "give blue buff to Olaf and let him farm with axes" kind of gave a glimpse into that potential, but I'm having a hard time seeing the way gifting red buff would play out in such lanes. I have a feeling that people might explore this some more, I certainly would like to. We actually lane swapped a few times. When you're on purple side you kind of need your duo lane to be top or mid because you need 3 people to kill Red buff in a timely manner without Smite. In other cases, we simply picked junglers who liked starting Red but didn't really need Blue and passed the latter buff off instead (the Cassiopeia games).
Oh okay I just thought you guys did the latter on the games you were purple. With all of the champions that are decent in 1v2 lanes and ranged that are currently being played (Kennen, Elise, Jayce, Karthus), who gets the red? I can see still giving, say, a mid Kayle red because you can send the jungler mid and deny exp on the ranged minions at least.
Who knows, my interest is piqued.
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On June 22 2013 15:01 Ketara wrote:
A TROLLS Strategy: Level 1 buff donations
When the new jungle changes came out to change all spawn timers to 1:55, most people were concerned with whether or not the Jungler would still hit level 3 from two buff camps. Can anybody leech EXP? Can bot lane still do golems? Is the jungler affected positively or negatively by this?
However, we have found that this is not the correct question we should be asking. The correct question is "Who are we going to give the other buff to?"
Because junglers are not doing a camp at 1:40, there is effectively one extra jungle camp that they can do in their first clear. While a jungler can go Buff -> Buff and be level 3 at 3 minutes, they can also go Buff -> Wolves -> Wraiths -> Golems for level 3 at about 3:30, depending a little bit on how fast the jungler clears.
This frees up a laner to take the other buff, and go into lane at level 2 with a blue or red buff. The jungler does buff 1 with a single player and smites it, while the other 3 players do buff 2. The junglers smite will be up right around on time for double golems, possibly a little late if they're a fast clearer but then they don't much care anyway. Finally, the 3 people doing buff 2 leave the small lizards for the jungler to clear, so that the buffs do not spawn at the same time and you can secure one after the other later in the game.
Allowing a laner to come into lane at level 2 with blue or red buff creates certain matchups that are extremely one sided. We have tested this in 12 games so far, most as premades vs. other unsuspecting premades in draft normals. In 11 of 12 games the outcome was the buff donated lane absolutely dominating, often times having a 2-3 level lead and doubling or tripling the CS of their opponent. We tended to prefer mid lane for the buff donation, since applying pressure in mid applies the most global pressure, and it is a little easier to coordinate the mid laner taking a buff for either side. However, this strategy is versatile and can be applied to any lane.
So far we've tried the following:
Giving either blue or red to Kayle, to come into lane with Q and E. Both blue and red resulted in the lane won almost immediately.
Giving blue to Cassiopeia. This was probably the most successful, we saw Cassiopeia killing the enemy mid before the second minion wave had spawned.
Giving red to a mid lane Quinn. Also quite effective, it allowed Quinn to get level 6 very quickly while shutting the enemy mid down and then roam.
Giving red to a mid lane Wukong. This actually ended with a fight in the river and Wukong coming out with 4 kills, largely due to being level 2 in a level 1 fight.
Giving red to Caitlyn in both bot and mid lane, to come into lane with Q, E and red buff. This dramatically increased Caitlyn's bullying potential, when we tried it in bot lane she got a doublekill as soon as she came into lane.
Giving red to a Tristana and then lane swapping her to 2v1 the enemy top lane. Also very effective.
For junglers, we focused on champions who did not necessarily need both buffs to get things done. Zac, Karthus, Shen and Shaco were used. In the Shaco games we focused on also doing an early jungle invade, while the others would mostly just farm and play normally. Karthus was possibly the most effective. Karthus can give red to a mid laner, take all the blue buffs, and just go Wolves->Wraiths->Golems->Wolves->Wraiths->Golems until level 6. With this pattern Karthus hits level 6 with the 7 minute blue buff and can then begin to press R.
There are a lot more junglers that we'd like to try with this, as well as a lot more laners with scary level 2's. What we like most about this strategy, aside from the fact that it has been incredibly successful in all but one test game (where we admittedly derped), is that it is incredibly versatile. There are all sorts of champions with scary level 2 kill potential, and all sorts of junglers that do not absolutely have to have both buffs, or absolutely have to gank at 3 minutes. Given the right buff transfer to the right person, you are delaying the jungler 30 seconds, but guaranteeing one of your lanes wins, and wins hard.
We think this is by far the best strategy we've ever come up with in TROLLS, and think you guys should totally try it out for yourselves.
this actually looks really interesting and you raise some valid points, im gonna try it out with some buddies tomorrow
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zzz this diamond+ subforum is starting to get on my tits.
-Very few people in this subforum post crap analysing about things they have no clue about. You ignore those people.
-Very few people in this subforum post crap worth reading. You highlight these people (in your head)
-Then, you have your middle ground, the general discussion about funny QTPIE videos, lolcats and teemo OP.
At the top, i see an "on topic, serious discussion thread" saying to PM neo, THIS is all we need for shit to get rolling in a serious sense. As you apply the first two points from above and remove the 3rd, people wanting to talk about teemo dying stream or ask random questions stay in GD.
EDIT: Like the above post from ketara, red for tristana in a 2v1 lane, dafuq is the point in that.
EDIT2: And subsequently ofc, my post, bronzie level sugar.
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I think what's important here isn't what you currently see on the forums, but what could have been. I personally read these forums as a form of entertainment and a little bit of news/gossip. I used to post longer posts more frequently, but have given up on that. As you said, there are people whose posts I greatly enjoy reading, but that's hard to find considering a lot of these people post long discussions infrequently, perhaps due to the skewed cost:benefit structure of the current GD thread (short attention span, fast-moving thread)
TL;DR Lazy to post, getting lazier to read
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dont hate on ketara hes a chill guy with chill ideas ok
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On June 22 2013 16:58 FinestHour wrote:
dont hate on ketara hes a chill guy with chill ideas ok
No hate, but chill? Hmmm.....20 pages back....hmmm... :D
#troll.
Seriously, i just dont understand how a trist in a 2v1 lane could get more out of red then a jungler, but as i said, bronzie level shit. Gold S2, Bronze S3, i know nothing!!!
Yango's post is esportsception
we cant have LoL as a supported game because its TOO POPULAR. gg no re SC2/Dota
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On June 22 2013 17:03 Gahlo wrote:
I'm hungry and tired.
Go to Costco; and tell um that it's for esports.
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On June 22 2013 16:10 cascades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 15:55 NeoIllusions wrote:On June 22 2013 15:41 TheYango wrote:On June 22 2013 15:28 cascades wrote:On June 22 2013 15:18 Zooper31 wrote:
We alrdy went over why having a Diamond+ or w/e you wanna call it was a bad idea. It only stands to fragment the community and take away discussion from everyone. That's why it is an excellent idea. Taking away discussion from "everyone" in one thread is a great idea, and all that fragmentation talk is slippery slope fear mongering that noone has backed up. Let's be honest, TL LoL is a small subcommunity, It doesn't make sense for us to fragment/distinguish people because everybody should very quickly know who the good posters are. There's no need to make them stand out because they already stand out. Likewise bad posters can be quickly moderated because there simply isn't that much volume. Again, the idea made sense in the SC2 subforums because of the nature of that forum. After SC2's release the posting volume absolutely exploded making conventional moderation impossible, and likewise there were too many posters to know everyone. This kind of thing was only a last resort used because for such a massive number of posters it was the best available solution. It simply is not useful in a subforum where the moderation arguably outstrips the needs of the subforum (I would posit that the staff-to-active-poster ratio in this subforum is relatively high compared to other parts of the site) and people tend to know who people are very quickly. Maybe it will have more merit if TL ever became officially supported LoL and we had a massive influx of new posters, but as is, you should know who is who, at least among the regular posters. If the concern is the off-topic/meaningless discussion in GD, then that is an issue with moderation or with the possibility of splitting GD into 2 threads. Having a Diamond-only subforum/thread is not the most practical solution to an issue that's ultimately a moderation/organizational issue. TL;DR Nice idea but we don't have enough actual Diamond/Challenger players to make such a project worthwhile. G_G Include Plat. Also, because TL LoL is a small community as we are all fond of saying, we can slowly include insightful gold/silver players that may have something to contribute, and know when to post and when to shutup, Yango: "Bad" posters are moderated because they go against ToS, but "bad" posters who post "bad garbage" don't. You are failing to see the distinction. It was a last resort in SC2's case. They also did it way too late to save their subforum. It is possible to mentally filter like you said. Just because you can tolerate such an environment, doesn't mean the likes of tolkien and nyx want to. Ask yourself honestly, is the quality of discussion now better than it was, say 6 months ago? Name other posters besides yourself who have persevered.
what happened in the sc2 forum?
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On June 22 2013 15:55 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 15:41 TheYango wrote:On June 22 2013 15:28 cascades wrote:On June 22 2013 15:18 Zooper31 wrote:
We alrdy went over why having a Diamond+ or w/e you wanna call it was a bad idea. It only stands to fragment the community and take away discussion from everyone. That's why it is an excellent idea. Taking away discussion from "everyone" in one thread is a great idea, and all that fragmentation talk is slippery slope fear mongering that noone has backed up. Let's be honest, TL LoL is a small subcommunity, It doesn't make sense for us to fragment/distinguish people because everybody should very quickly know who the good posters are. There's no need to make them stand out because they already stand out. Likewise bad posters can be quickly moderated because there simply isn't that much volume. Again, the idea made sense in the SC2 subforums because of the nature of that forum. After SC2's release the posting volume absolutely exploded making conventional moderation impossible, and likewise there were too many posters to know everyone. This kind of thing was only a last resort used because for such a massive number of posters it was the best available solution. It simply is not useful in a subforum where the moderation arguably outstrips the needs of the subforum (I would posit that the staff-to-active-poster ratio in this subforum is relatively high compared to other parts of the site) and people tend to know who people are very quickly. Maybe it will have more merit if TL ever became officially supported LoL and we had a massive influx of new posters, but as is, you should know who is who, at least among the regular posters. If the concern is the off-topic/meaningless discussion in GD, then that is an issue with moderation or with the possibility of splitting GD into 2 threads. Having a Diamond-only subforum/thread is not the most practical solution to an issue that's ultimately a moderation/organizational issue. TL;DR Nice idea but we don't have enough actual Diamond/Challenger players to make such a project worthwhile. G_G
i'm sure there are enough goobers in the sea. the question of whether or not they would actually want to do anything is a better one.
btw hong kong is so moist yo. dat humidity
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On June 22 2013 17:13 Navi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 15:55 NeoIllusions wrote:On June 22 2013 15:41 TheYango wrote:On June 22 2013 15:28 cascades wrote:On June 22 2013 15:18 Zooper31 wrote:
We alrdy went over why having a Diamond+ or w/e you wanna call it was a bad idea. It only stands to fragment the community and take away discussion from everyone. That's why it is an excellent idea. Taking away discussion from "everyone" in one thread is a great idea, and all that fragmentation talk is slippery slope fear mongering that noone has backed up. Let's be honest, TL LoL is a small subcommunity, It doesn't make sense for us to fragment/distinguish people because everybody should very quickly know who the good posters are. There's no need to make them stand out because they already stand out. Likewise bad posters can be quickly moderated because there simply isn't that much volume. Again, the idea made sense in the SC2 subforums because of the nature of that forum. After SC2's release the posting volume absolutely exploded making conventional moderation impossible, and likewise there were too many posters to know everyone. This kind of thing was only a last resort used because for such a massive number of posters it was the best available solution. It simply is not useful in a subforum where the moderation arguably outstrips the needs of the subforum (I would posit that the staff-to-active-poster ratio in this subforum is relatively high compared to other parts of the site) and people tend to know who people are very quickly. Maybe it will have more merit if TL ever became officially supported LoL and we had a massive influx of new posters, but as is, you should know who is who, at least among the regular posters. If the concern is the off-topic/meaningless discussion in GD, then that is an issue with moderation or with the possibility of splitting GD into 2 threads. Having a Diamond-only subforum/thread is not the most practical solution to an issue that's ultimately a moderation/organizational issue. TL;DR Nice idea but we don't have enough actual Diamond/Challenger players to make such a project worthwhile. G_G i'm sure there are enough goobers in the sea. the question of whether or not they would actually want to do anything is a better one. btw hong kong is so moist yo. dat humidity
Humidity +heat is the worst. Feels like sucking air through a straw. For the several dozen hours I've spent in such an environment, every other thought was I was going to asphyxiate.
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This is why I like Liquid Poker. Elitist assholes are mocked rather than this circle-jerk crap. Fortunately starting a separate thread for "serious" discussion is a simple means of showing what a ghost town it would be (or proving me wrong).
See the thing is very few people actually want to read your opinion, what they want is to advocate their own opinion. The reason for all the butthurt in this thread as far as I can see is various elitists all annoyed that their thoughts aren't reaching enough of the masses.
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On June 22 2013 17:35 TheLink wrote:
This is why I like Liquid Poker. Elitist assholes are mocked rather than this circle-jerk crap. Fortunately starting a separate thread for "serious" discussion is a simple means of showing what a ghost town it would be (or proving me wrong).
See the thing is very few people actually want to read your opinion, what they want is to advocate their own opinion. The reason for all the butthurt in this thread as far as I can see is various elitists all annoyed that their thoughts aren't reaching enough of the masses.
This; except in a less demeaning tone.
On other note; What's with the whole twitch streams being down and stuff?
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On June 22 2013 15:55 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 15:41 TheYango wrote:On June 22 2013 15:28 cascades wrote:On June 22 2013 15:18 Zooper31 wrote:
We alrdy went over why having a Diamond+ or w/e you wanna call it was a bad idea. It only stands to fragment the community and take away discussion from everyone. That's why it is an excellent idea. Taking away discussion from "everyone" in one thread is a great idea, and all that fragmentation talk is slippery slope fear mongering that noone has backed up. Let's be honest, TL LoL is a small subcommunity, It doesn't make sense for us to fragment/distinguish people because everybody should very quickly know who the good posters are. There's no need to make them stand out because they already stand out. Likewise bad posters can be quickly moderated because there simply isn't that much volume. Again, the idea made sense in the SC2 subforums because of the nature of that forum. After SC2's release the posting volume absolutely exploded making conventional moderation impossible, and likewise there were too many posters to know everyone. This kind of thing was only a last resort used because for such a massive number of posters it was the best available solution. It simply is not useful in a subforum where the moderation arguably outstrips the needs of the subforum (I would posit that the staff-to-active-poster ratio in this subforum is relatively high compared to other parts of the site) and people tend to know who people are very quickly. Maybe it will have more merit if TL ever became officially supported LoL and we had a massive influx of new posters, but as is, you should know who is who, at least among the regular posters. If the concern is the off-topic/meaningless discussion in GD, then that is an issue with moderation or with the possibility of splitting GD into 2 threads. Having a Diamond-only subforum/thread is not the most practical solution to an issue that's ultimately a moderation/organizational issue. TL;DR Nice idea but we don't have enough actual Diamond/Challenger players to make such a project worthwhile. G_G
I don't think it's only because of that, I think that's really bad to fragment the community because it will not encourage "noobs" to register to TL. What's the point if you cannot even participate in the discussion ? They shouldn't be excluded from a discussion because they're bad at a game.
What if we do this in the SC2 forum too ? There will be 2 TL community and I don't think it's a good thing.
I may be overreacting though cause I really like TL as it is now.
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i think having a bunch of high elo ppl talk exclusively with each other is such a epeen fest. its solo queue except with TLers so prob will be more nerdy-smart and passive aggressive than straight trolly. if u want to do that just solo queue lel
btw how does elo decay work with new system? only true elo decay and LP doesn't?
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EPT
