EPTIt might be time to un-retire the beast
[Patch 3.07: Nerf Everything Not Nami] General Discussion…
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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. | ||
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
10417 Posts
It might be time to un-retire the beast | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14056 Posts
On May 19 2013 22:47 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: That was the first time I've ever seen a Chogath destroy a Vayne and not the other way around It might be time to un-retire the beast Gotta feel like a sir again. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On May 19 2013 22:50 Letmelose wrote: It's been quite a while since I last saw Uzi, and I must say his Vayne mechanics has been quite underwhelming considering how high I thought his level was. And why is it that every time I tune in to watch some high quality Chinese games everyone farms up to six items before doing anything? It's pretty much the chinese tradition to farm until 60min before fighting | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14056 Posts
On May 19 2013 22:56 Amarok wrote: Isn't sotl closely affiliated with clg and doesn't it stand to reason that the big announcement is related to that team? They were but not really. Travis is just a bro to the whole NA scene basically and it makes sense that he would announce an announcement coming. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On May 19 2013 22:53 Shikyo wrote: It's pretty much the chinese tradition to farm until 60min before fighting Now I understand why iG throws so much. I would gouge my eyeballs out purely from frustration if I had to play like this every single game. I personally thought it wouldn't be so bad if China won the All Stars Championship since it would be more likely we'll get to enjoy the talents of players such as Uzi, Cool, and LoveLin. Now I'll be praying everyday that Korea takes it. Imagine the group stages filled with teams like Evil Geniuses, Team We, and OMG. They will bore their oppositon into submission. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On May 19 2013 22:56 Amarok wrote: Isn't sotl closely affiliated with clg and doesn't it stand to reason that the big announcement is related to that team? this is a reasonable conclusion | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
Why don't Ashe players start going for a tear and stack it up to a muramana? It seems to be good for her because she can spam frost arrows to stack it up really quick and the dps that she could put out with a muramana is pretty nice. Especially with the change of the muramana for AD champs | ||
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Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
On May 19 2013 23:14 Disengaged wrote: I have a question. Why don't Ashe players start going for a tear and stack it up to a muramana? It seems to be good for her because she can spam frost arrows to stack it up really quick and the dps that she could put out with a muramana is pretty nice. Especially with the change of the muramana for AD champs because no1 plays ashe to make it popular \o/ | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On May 19 2013 23:14 Disengaged wrote: I have a question. Why don't Ashe players start going for a tear and stack it up to a muramana? It seems to be good for her because she can spam frost arrows to stack it up really quick and the dps that she could put out with a muramana is pretty nice. Especially with the change of the muramana for AD champs You're incredibly weak in lane, and have lower stats than almost every other AD Carry. Getting a tear tells someone "I have no combat stats because I didn't buy Dorans, please all-in me and kill me". And the other duo is going to oblige and kill you every time you respawn and punish you for it. At the same time, spamming Volley just pushes your lane, while keeping Frost Shot toggled on 24/7 is really inefficient and doesn't actually do much for you. Your strength as an AD Carry comes from the fact you have a global hard CC which acts as an unconditional form of initiation, and your AS means you scale very hard. | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On May 19 2013 23:01 Letmelose wrote: Now I understand why iG throws so much. I would gouge my eyeballs out purely from frustration if I had to play like this every single game. I personally thought it wouldn't be so bad if China won the All Stars Championship since it would be more likely we'll get to enjoy the talents of players such as Uzi, Cool, and LoveLin. Now I'll be praying everyday that Korea takes it. Imagine the group stages filled with teams like Evil Geniuses, Team We, and OMG. They will bore their oppositon into submission. It seems karthus and vayne just hit the 400 cs mark. Time for both teams to contest first dragon of the game! | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On May 19 2013 23:14 Disengaged wrote: I have a question. Why don't Ashe players start going for a tear and stack it up to a muramana? It seems to be good for her because she can spam frost arrows to stack it up really quick and the dps that she could put out with a muramana is pretty nice. Especially with the change of the muramana for AD champs Unlike Ezreal, who can abuse the near-endless mana of a Tear in order to turn any lane into a passive farming lane, Ashe becomes vulnerable and punishable if she buys a Tear. | ||
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On May 19 2013 23:23 MoonBear wrote: You're incredibly weak in lane, and have lower stats than almost every other AD Carry. Getting a tear tells someone "I have no combat stats because I didn't buy Dorans, please all-in me and kill me". And the other duo is going to oblige and kill you every time you respawn and punish you for it. At the same time, spamming Volley just pushes your lane, while keeping Frost Shot toggled on 24/7 is really inefficient and doesn't actually do much for you. Your strength as an AD Carry comes from the fact you have a global hard CC which acts as an unconditional form of initiation, and your AS means you scale very hard. Well, Ashe players don't have to spam Volley on the minions. Spamming volley away from the minions or when your coming back from base. Maybe people don't have to buy a tear right off the bat but work it in somehow. I dunno | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On May 19 2013 17:25 Serelitz wrote: Eh I don´t really enjoy the ´we have an advantage lets randomly push lanes until a teamfight happens´ meta too much. So much passivity. Chinese teams farm a lot too but at least they know how to force objectives when needed. It's more that CLG split pushes and TSM poke comps. The teams have their own flair and styles that only they use. And whenever they get trounced in a BO series, they copy their enemies thinking it will work for them too -_- On May 19 2013 23:23 MoonBear wrote: You're incredibly weak in lane, and have lower stats than almost every other AD Carry. Getting a tear tells someone "I have no combat stats because I didn't buy Dorans, please all-in me and kill me". And the other duo is going to oblige and kill you every time you respawn and punish you for it. At the same time, spamming Volley just pushes your lane, while keeping Frost Shot toggled on 24/7 is really inefficient and doesn't actually do much for you. Your strength as an AD Carry comes from the fact you have a global hard CC which acts as an unconditional form of initiation, and your AS means you scale very hard. Manamune is less of a liability when you have some base mana and you buy the whole thing outright or you buy a longsword on one back and the whole thing on the next. It doesn't even charge that fast in tear form. But the extra mana is only good for lane sustain so idk. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
Normally, the only way to drive an ezreal out of lane is to make him go OOM from spamming arcane shifts + forcing him to rely on Q to not miss CS. When Ezreal buys a tear, he's PERFECTLY HAPPY spamming Q for CSing + arcane shifting away at the slightest sign of danger because he suddenly has enough mana to sustain this behavior forever. Jayce is the same way - you can't PUNISH a tear jayce, because you can't just force an engage on Jayce when he's playing passive CS. He'll knock you away and go back to poking with Q + farming from long range. What would Ashe do with a tear? Sure she can charge it easily, but that's not the only problem. Mana doesn't allow her to spam Volley at low levels, so even with unlimited mana she can't "just farm from an unharassable location" and she has no short cooldown disengage skills like Ezreal or Jayce do so she can't turn "endless mana" into "endless disengage" | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On May 19 2013 23:35 Disengaged wrote: Well, Ashe players don't have to spam Volley on the minions. Spamming volley away from the minions or when your coming back from base. Maybe people don't have to buy a tear right off the bat but work it in somehow. I dunno Working a Tear into your build is weird because you're choosing to flatline your power curve trying to fit in a mana generating item instead of building something that does more damage. Let's say you have an Infinity Edge already. Getting a Manamune is 2100g. For only 700g more, you could have a PD which would be far stronger. Manamune isn't advancing your build or doing anything special in particular. Getting Manamune after Dorans doesn't really work either. During the laning phase you're buying components piece-meal. While you're still sitting on a Tear, the Draven with a BF Sword is about to wreck your face and use you as an ATM machine. You're not any more scary than a regular Ashe with only some Dorans and no BF Sword because the mana the Tear regen gives you won't come into effect since you'll be zoned from minions/dead by the time it's relevant (aka the point at which the mana regen from Tear lets you do more than you base mana regen would have done). Your Volleys themselves are not scary at all until you get AD items either. Max rank Volley is 80+100% AD damage per arrow, while each arrow can only proc once per target and Ashe has one of the the lowest base AD+AD growths out of all the AD Carries. Think of Tear as a GP10 item that gives mana instead of hard gold. You're delaying combat stats on an already base-stat weak AD Carry while waiting for the item to 'pay itself off'. Sure, you can try firing more Volleys off from afar to snipe cs the same way you can sit at tower and let a GP10 item generate gold for you. But you're still in a losing lane and have no response to getting all-in'ed. You're not an Ezreal who can never be zoned off the minion wave thanks to Mystic Shot, and you also lack the same escapes he has too. On May 19 2013 23:47 obesechicken13 wrote: Manamune is less of a liability when you have some base mana and you buy the whole thing outright or you buy a longsword on one back and the whole thing on the next. It doesn't even charge that fast in tear form. But the extra mana is only good for lane sustain so idk. Mmm pretty much. Ashe's problem in lane is definitely not mana. You never really sit in lane thinking "If only I had more mana, I'd be winning this lane". | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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Disengaged
United States6994 Posts
On May 20 2013 00:08 MoonBear wrote: Working a Tear into your build is weird because you're choosing to flatline your power curve trying to fit in a mana generating item instead of building something that does more damage. Let's say you have an Infinity Edge already. Getting a Manamune is 2100g. For only 700g more, you could have a PD which would be far stronger. Manamune isn't advancing your build or doing anything special in particular. Getting Manamune after Dorans doesn't really work either. During the laning phase you're buying components piece-meal. While you're still sitting on a Tear, the Draven with a BF Sword is about to wreck your face and use you as an ATM machine. You're not any more scary than a regular Ashe with only some Dorans and no BF Sword because the mana the Tear regen gives you won't come into effect since you'll be zoned from minions/dead by the time it's relevant (aka the point at which the mana regen from Tear lets you do more than you base mana regen would have done). Your Volleys themselves are not scary at all until you get AD items either. Max rank Volley is 80+100% AD damage per arrow, while each arrow can only proc once per target and Ashe has one of the the lowest base AD+AD growths out of all the AD Carries. Think of Tear as a GP10 item that gives mana instead of hard gold. You're delaying combat stats on an already base-stat weak AD Carry while waiting for the item to 'pay itself off'. Sure, you can try firing more Volleys off from afar to snipe cs the same way you can sit at tower and let a GP10 item generate gold for you. But you're still in a losing lane and have no response to getting all-in'ed. You're not an Ezreal who can never be zoned off the minion wave thanks to Mystic Shot, and you also lack the same escapes he has too. Mmm pretty much. Ashe's problem in lane is definitely not mana. You never really sit in lane thinking "If only I had more mana, I'd be winning this lane". Makes sense. Thanks for going so in depth about it  | ||
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