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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:20 Ketara wrote: To be fair, 99% of my bitching is about how dumb the League system is, and not about the actual games that I play  extenuating circumstances; still stands. :D | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:20 Ketara wrote: To be fair, 99% of my bitching is about how dumb the League system is, and not about the actual games that I play Screw Diana, Viktor can do 0K against her if they don't play well but it's still a match-up he should automatically lose at level 6 (esp. with his ult cd). Need to expand my mid pool. :< | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:27 Alaric wrote: Screw Diana, Viktor can do 0K against her if they don't play well but it's still a match-up he should automatically lose at level 6 (esp. with his ult cd). Need to expand my mid pool. :< I wholeheartedly disagree. I love Viktor against Diana. Abuse the fact that she's melee, use your speed to your advantage (MS quints + boots start). Let her jump on you if she really wants, especially around level 8 when you (I) get W. She just sits there and cries. Yeah, it can be tough once she gets tankier, and there isn't much you can do to stop her going bot and raping your support/carry, but it's by no means a shit match up for Viktor. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:31 jcarlsoniv wrote: I wholeheartedly disagree. I love Viktor against Diana. Abuse the fact that she's melee, use your speed to your advantage (MS quints + boots start). Let her jump on you if she really wants, especially around level 8 when you (I) get W. She just sits there and cries. Yeah, it can be tough once she gets tankier, and there isn't much you can do to stop her going bot and raping your support/carry, but it's by no means a shit match up for Viktor. Obviously Alaric was just baiting you out by making random Viktor comments. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:36 cLutZ wrote: Obviously Alaric was just baiting you out by making random Viktor comments. It's like the friggin Bat Signal | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
With W I get a free Q+E, another Q if I stick around, so whenever she's low enough I can take my chances and go for the kill with Ignite+ult, however she's also got virtually no cooldown on her Q+R combo, which means that unless I can 100-0 her she WQR on top of me, maybe auto once or twice (depending if she uses E or not), walk away, and once all of her stuff is back up do it again. If she takes too much damage from me then I'll just kill her the second (or third if I time my Q right to not drop too low from the others) time she does it. However, I've had the feeling that they didn't know how much damage I can do and were simply playing that pretty bad. Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume it safer to believe that against a decent Diana player I wouldn't have those opportunities. She also makes it hard to farm because if you get near the wave to E it and shove, post-6, she'll abuse the fact that it's on cd and to try and Q you. In those cases you'll lose the trade pretty hard, so you can't really shove and roam either. Considering how Viktor has to make plays during the midgame to make sure his team gets a lead before he falls off, I'd consider that a pretty good asset for Diana compared to other mids who you just force to cower under tower. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:45 Zhiroo wrote: I've hit a wall in LoL lately.I have 3 problems at the moment. I keep being under-leveled unless we snowball the lane, I think I'm warding too much and 3rd problem is I keep being with only two items almost into late game because of buying to much wards. I'm guessing you play support? Try philo stone before sightstone. Also Hec ulti damage nerf seemed unnecessary imo. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:45 Zhiroo wrote: I've hit a wall in LoL lately.I have 3 problems at the moment. I keep being under-leveled unless we snowball the lane, I think I'm warding too much and 3rd problem is I keep being with only two items almost into late game because of buying to much wards. I think you need to play with more of a mindset that it's not the support's job to ward the whole map. You should only really roam to other lanes and start warding for them after you take your turret. It's generally never a bad thing to buy wards but there is a point where you're just overdoing and blowing all your gold (and losing exp) with almost negligible marginal returns from additional warding. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:42 Alaric wrote: Well that's kinda my experience too, though I can't really kill her (I avoid pushing since boots -> no wards, and people seem to love to gank Viktor >>, so using her low mana costs they sometimes try to shove the lane as soon as I Q, using the shield to reduce the damage and running into the wave, then they back and come back with more pots while I've already wasted a bit of mana), at least pre-6. With W I get a free Q+E, another Q if I stick around, so whenever she's low enough I can take my chances and go for the kill with Ignite+ult, however she's also got virtually no cooldown on her Q+R combo, which means that unless I can 100-0 her she WQR on top of me, maybe auto once or twice (depending if she uses E or not), walk away, and once all of her stuff is back up do it again. If she takes too much damage from me then I'll just kill her the second (or third if I time my Q right to not drop too low from the others) time she does it. However, I've had the feeling that they didn't know how much damage I can do and were simply playing that pretty bad. Maybe I'm wrong, but I assume it safer to believe that against a decent Diana player I wouldn't have those opportunities. She also makes it hard to farm because if you get near the wave to E it and shove, post-6, she'll abuse the fact that it's on cd and to try and Q you. In those cases you'll lose the trade pretty hard, so you can't really shove and roam either. Considering how Viktor has to make plays during the midgame to make sure his team gets a lead before he falls off, I'd consider that a pretty good asset for Diana compared to other mids who you just force to cower under tower. You're using E wrong if you get close to the wave to clear, and are still close enough for her to abuse. On June 11 2013 04:47 cLutZ wrote: Why does Viktor fall off? Other than the 6 item problem? He seems pretty strong in an anti-dive comp I would think. By virtue of being a burst mage, he falls off the same as any burst mage. His fall off is slightly sharper than others because of his augment. But honestly, his augment is still really really really good and is hands down the most cost-efficient item a burst mage could have. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:36 cLutZ wrote: Obviously Alaric was just baiting you out by making random Viktor comments. gtfo you scum, you obviously don't understand anything to the noble topic that is Viktor. :[ About the falling off, I kinda posted a big wall of text in Solcrushed's thread about him, but the TL;DR is: - Viktor can only E without exposing himself (W has a long animation and short range so against a bunch of champs you can only use it to block a path, not to actually stun) so if early-mid he can add in a Q and walk away when roaming and stuff, during sieges it's too risky (see Panth's Q) - he is extremely ult-reliant unless you get to E-poke people for a long time, and his ult's cd is always 120s, doesn't go down with levels. It creates big windows to exploit for the enemy team during the midgame (in soloQ it's more often my team engaging despite it being on cd than the enemy team abusing it tho), and makes him a poor 1v1 because his teamfighting will significantly drop if he has to use it (get a kill 1v1, if they fight it'll be a 4.5v5 at best). He's not like, say, Ahri, where you can snipe somebody solo and go for an objective, Viktor really likes to make his ults count. He also tends not to rush CDR, which only exacerbates the issue. It's a bit like Morgana: can snipe 1v1 but really prefers teamfights. - his ult naturally "falls off" because of the increased likelyhood of people running away/lifestealing/getting shielded during the churning, making you rely on the initial burst a bunch (can chase that AD near tower when you roam at 10 minutes, can't run in the middle of the enemy team when he has PD to outrun ult and everytime has 30-minutes mark items). To detail a bit, the churning scales with AP/MPen, while shields and stuff scale with AP, CDR, MR, etc. that your target gain with farm and levels, also bulwark: a good Ori will get 2 shields during your ult, so even if you do more damage, seeing how it's periodic for the most part, their ways to counteract it become better too). - Combine the 2 and you get a squishy burst caster who can't afford to waste his ult on the frontline unless the rest of his team can kill the backline by themselves, and who has to get close at the same time to release his full damage. It's less that he falls off and more that he becomes harder to make full use of, I'd say, kinda like LeBlanc. It's rarely "Damn I wish I had more AP to kill their Cait", but much more often "Damn, how can I position to poke and push and still be able to flank once we initiate". (Viktor's actually surprisingly good at clean-up with a bit of CDR because of his Q shield and W slow/stun. Give him blue buff, blue elixir and rylai, and he's a bitch to get at. But he struggles to reach you too.) | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On June 11 2013 04:54 jcarlsoniv wrote: You're using E wrong if you get close to the wave to clear, and are still close enough for her to abuse. By virtue of being a burst mage, he falls off the same as any burst mage. His fall off is slightly sharper than others because of his augment. But honestly, his augment is still really really really good and is hands down the most cost-efficient item a burst mage could have. Speaking of augments, how does this make you feel: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2013/06/solcrushed-on-viktor-bad-news-and-new.html#more | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
(Had a game like that, baited the Diana to try and 1v1 me top as we were sieging the mid inhib, drop low, Zhonya with 300 HP left as a member of the team comes and finishes her off, then they try to engage on us, W to prevent Draven from reaching me as Leona Es, Q right after the cc so the shield saves me from hers, Flash out of Draven's E, bait Leona with those juicy 100 HP and Q her again. Can't really gloat because without the nashor's buff hp5 I would have died at least twice during that fight and I didn't account for it before trying.) | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
ps4>xbox one wrong thread ~~ | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 11 2013 05:02 AsmodeusXI wrote: Speaking of augments, how does this make you feel: http://www.surrenderat20.net/2013/06/solcrushed-on-viktor-bad-news-and-new.html#more *shrug* Having combined T2 Augments would have made him batshit insane and they would have to nerf something about him, almost guaranteed. I'm actually kind of upset that Solcrushed never actually spoke with me about Viktor. For a while, I was brainstorming cool upgrades for a T2 Aug. The route proposed in that link is kinda a lazy "well fuck, we need to do something, let's just use item passives that already exist". Disappointing. | ||
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UnKooL
Korea (South)1667 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
So he'll change, wether we like it or not. Which is in itself a canon thing for him. I'd prefer that s4 combined tech solution tho (said it in the thread), even if it'll necessarily make him change a lot, since buying Death won't be such a big power peak and creating a dynamic in lane/objectives anymore. | ||
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