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sheer mechanical skill and reaction times are overrated for most players. if you're weaker mechanically but you know what to do and play a jungler like xin and lead your team to make good decisions, you can easily make diamond. the problem is people usually make a bad call here and there, ppl rage, fin. if you exhibit clear skill difference, they are much less likely to disagree because of one bad call.
but the decision making is pretty terrible in general in general in NA lol
tends to be much more straightforward in KR from my experience (in terms of rotations after taking towers / defending towers, objective movement, etc. - there is a clear "right choice" for most players after a given result, rather than dilly dallying and split decisions, which is a huge factor in the overall region's higher "skill" [is more like higher average game knowledge, tbh, along with lower ping allowing for cooler plays throughout the playing populace])
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I was just about to say that Navi. It seems like it's not mechanical skill that hinders so much as decision making and the ability to get team to follow good decisions.
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On May 16 2013 04:08 Navi wrote:
right now im playing in silver on a smurf. its hilarious
the enemy team more often than not implodes in rage and the arguments and justifications they feel obligated to make in all chat is ridiculous haha
i meet the most foul mouthed players when i smurf in level 10s. it is unreal. the amount of rage by people who don't understand how the game works... it just doesn't make any sense.
On May 16 2013 04:16 Ketara wrote:
I think you're right about the decision making though. I'm just starting to feel like I have some semblance of understanding whatever the fuck it is I'm supposed to be doing outside of 20mins into the game. When I watch my friends in silver 5 play they get in these positions where it's 30-40 mins in and they have a clear lead and still just sort of wander around the map not doing anything with their lead.
i duoed with a bronze 1 friend, i'm in silver 4 due to inactivity.
there was a point in the mid-late game where the enemy team had 3 enemies down, so me on sona and my friend on cait were pushing inhib tower, then inhib. random people keep trying to 1v2 us so we beat them down and basically we're just hanging out in the base slowly putting pressure on the nexus tower, i think we managed to take one of them down. finally 3 guys respawn and we can't 2v3 so we had to leave. i was wondering where the rest of the team was.
when i watched the replay, turns out one guy was taking blue buff, another was soloing dragon, and the last guy was pushing out top by himself. everyone could've just collapsed on mid and we could've ended the game.
yeah definitely, the way people move as a team in low ranks is really frustrating. way too much dillydallying, and not enough wards (which would prevent the awkwardly wandering around doing nothing).
as for throws... i've had like 4-5 games last week where we won when we were behind 10k. some of them included diamond players. some of them were platinums on our team who wanted to give up. *shrug*
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Lol, when it gets hectic and you need to execute crisply and click the right targets/spells I sometimes default to button mash... I'm bad. I hit buttons I don't mean to. It's totally experience and I openly admit I'm bad. I like to think most of my choices are sound. There certainly not the best but I was just offering there are other factors. I'm not really arguing against your point though because indecision and bad calls are a big problem. If I can't properly execute a combo or some intermediate level play it can be a won or lost team fight.
kainzero's story does sound familiar... i'm not saying its not an issue by any means. i guess i'm saying mechanics do limit a player to some extent. the problem with making great decisions all the time is there are 4 other players. you can try to lead of course. if you're super mechanically proficient you can better make plays. people follow that.
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On May 16 2013 04:44 mordek wrote:
Lol, when it gets hectic and you need to execute crisply and click the right targets/spells I sometimes default to button mash... I'm bad. I hit buttons I don't mean to. It's totally experience and I openly admit I'm bad. I like to think most of my choices are sound. There certainly not the best but I was just offering there are other factors. I'm not really arguing against your point though because indecision and bad calls are a big problem. If I can't properly execute a combo or some intermediate level play it can be a won or lost team fight.
kainzero's story does sound familiar... i'm not saying its not an issue by any means. i guess i'm saying mechanics do limit a player to some extent. the problem with making great decisions all the time is there are 4 other players. you can try to lead of course. if you're super mechanically proficient you can better make plays. people follow that.
My laptop would overheat so even with smartcast it was hard to use Jayce's moves and not miss. Now I have a cooling mat. Seems a lot better.
Don't underestimate the power of a good machine.
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Silver has gotten a lot less stressful since I started insta-muting at the first sign of rage/BM. On the downside, my ignore list is getting pretty full.
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I have a good enough desktop (I used to play on a 6 year old laptop on wifi, that did have an effect of course) I do appreciate the suggestion it's not me though :D
But really, I'm only saying it's in addition to. There are a multitude of bad/suboptimal choices made all the time by ppl in lower leagues, including myself.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 16 2013 04:38 Numy wrote:
I was just about to say that Navi. It seems like it's not mechanical skill that hinders so much as decision making and the ability to get team to follow good decisions.
I mean, there is *some* level of mechanical execution, but Navi is right, it's largely overblown.
There are no issues of huge mouse precision or speed. Comboing is largely just muscle memory and beyond that, the mouse movement/precision required in most scenarios is quite low (most high-value skills aren't even creep-targetable, so you can't misclick them on creeps in a fight  ). It's not like BW where you have to pick out individual units from a pack and move them out of targeting, or instantly target Spider mines with Dragoons the moment they pop out of the ground. There's nothing in League that requires remotely that level of precision or speed.
For the most part, it's game knowledge, really, as far as what people call mechanics. Doublelift's "mechanics" being good don't come from high mouse precision or speed, they come from knowing how much damage skills do, what range people have, knowing who he has to use a particular skill on to win a fight, and, most importantly, judging from the basic game state whether a fight is even winnable going in based on the items, levels, buffs, and HP/mana levels of the champs involved.
Even skillshots aren't mechanics. They're half a psychological game with your target, and half game knowledge of movement speed, collision size, skill range, and mobility skills.
Probably the only thing that might be considered really "demanding" mechanically are reaction-based actions (reaction-flashing a Malphite ult, for example), and in large part, the mechanical demand on this is heavily reduced if you have a strong grasp on other aspects (e.g. if you have a handle of the precise range of Malphite ulti, and the psychological game of when he's going to go on you, you can predict when he's going to ult, which consequently makes you more prepared to flash it). It's rare that people do this part on pure reaction and for the most part this comes from coupling reactions with the other aspects of your gameplay.
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holycrap, no wonder they removed ennervating locket
udyr can 4v1
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United States23745 Posts
On May 16 2013 04:51 Requizen wrote:
Silver has gotten a lot less stressful since I started insta-muting at the first sign of rage/BM. On the downside, my ignore list is getting pretty full.
I know that feeling. Had a bad level one, peopled raged because I Withered the wrong person, muted them, died to Red buff because I didn't level the right skill for Jungle clear because we had a failed invade. Played fine the rest of the game and we won. I'm sure I avoided tons of verbal abuse by doing that.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 16 2013 05:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
holycrap, no wonder they removed ennervating locket
udyr can 4v1
Wasn't just Udyr. The item was ridiculous on everyone.
Locket Veigar, Locket Irelia, I think people were even playing Locket Tryndamere even though he doesn't benefit from the mana at all because the item was just that abusive.
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On May 16 2013 05:03 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 04:51 Requizen wrote:
Silver has gotten a lot less stressful since I started insta-muting at the first sign of rage/BM. On the downside, my ignore list is getting pretty full. I know that feeling. Had a bad level one, peopled raged because I Withered the wrong person, muted them, died to Red buff because I didn't level the right skill for Jungle clear because we had a failed invade. Played fine the rest of the game and we won. I'm sure I avoided tons of verbal abuse by doing that.
I admit that I can also be very passive aggressive with it. After I die once stupidly:
"Why is it top that always feeds?"
"Why is it the AD that always bitches and gets muted?"
Then watch the rest of the team tell them to shut up for the rest of the game. Worth.
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I think probably the biggest reason why I'm still in silver is my late game decision making and calling. On average, my support is alright, and sometimes my Lulu can win lanes. Come late game though, my warding goes down as I forget about it, and I don't really put any effort into trying to make people go to certain spots or do certain things, and sometimes I'll use my skills on the wrong target. Maybe instead of using my spells to protect the AD I use it on our bruiser so that he can get over to the other team, and that just cost us the fight. Now that summer's here I hope I can improve on these aspects a lot.
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On May 16 2013 04:49 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 04:44 mordek wrote:
Lol, when it gets hectic and you need to execute crisply and click the right targets/spells I sometimes default to button mash... I'm bad. I hit buttons I don't mean to. It's totally experience and I openly admit I'm bad. I like to think most of my choices are sound. There certainly not the best but I was just offering there are other factors. I'm not really arguing against your point though because indecision and bad calls are a big problem. If I can't properly execute a combo or some intermediate level play it can be a won or lost team fight.
kainzero's story does sound familiar... i'm not saying its not an issue by any means. i guess i'm saying mechanics do limit a player to some extent. the problem with making great decisions all the time is there are 4 other players. you can try to lead of course. if you're super mechanically proficient you can better make plays. people follow that. My laptop would overheat so even with smartcast it was hard to use Jayce's moves and not miss. Now I have a cooling mat. Seems a lot better. Don't underestimate the power of a good machine.
I recently went out and got a good gaming mouse. I'm not sure how much my last-hitting has improved, but a bunch of my Osu! ranks have gone up one letter grade (S ranking songs I would A rank normally, A ranking songs I used to B rank). And this was me literally playing Osu! with my old mouse, then immediately switching to my new mouse. The improvement was most dramatic for songs that require you to move your mouse around the screen quickly and a lot, and least dramatic for songs that just make you click really fast but stack most of the circles on top of each other.
Also spinners that I used to spin to 4000 or so with my old mouse, I spun out to 15000 with the new mouse. Glorious.
(EDIT: Also, my old mouse wasn't that bad - about $35 when I got it four years ago, my new mouse was $100)
Since getting the new mouse I got into a promotion series from the bottom of Silver III, so the hardware is totally worth it.
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United States15536 Posts
On May 16 2013 05:20 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 04:49 obesechicken13 wrote:On May 16 2013 04:44 mordek wrote:
Lol, when it gets hectic and you need to execute crisply and click the right targets/spells I sometimes default to button mash... I'm bad. I hit buttons I don't mean to. It's totally experience and I openly admit I'm bad. I like to think most of my choices are sound. There certainly not the best but I was just offering there are other factors. I'm not really arguing against your point though because indecision and bad calls are a big problem. If I can't properly execute a combo or some intermediate level play it can be a won or lost team fight.
kainzero's story does sound familiar... i'm not saying its not an issue by any means. i guess i'm saying mechanics do limit a player to some extent. the problem with making great decisions all the time is there are 4 other players. you can try to lead of course. if you're super mechanically proficient you can better make plays. people follow that. My laptop would overheat so even with smartcast it was hard to use Jayce's moves and not miss. Now I have a cooling mat. Seems a lot better. Don't underestimate the power of a good machine. I recently went out and got a good gaming mouse. I'm not sure how much my last-hitting has improved, but a bunch of my Osu! ranks have gone up one letter grade (S ranking songs I would A rank normally, A ranking songs I used to B rank). And this was me literally playing Osu! with my old mouse, then immediately switching to my new mouse. The improvement was most dramatic for songs that require you to move your mouse around the screen quickly and a lot, and least dramatic for songs that just make you click really fast but stack most of the circles on top of each other. Also spinners that I used to spin to 4000 or so with my old mouse, I spun out to 15000 with the new mouse. Glorious. (EDIT: Also, my old mouse wasn't that bad - about $50 when I got it four years ago, my new mouse was $100) Since getting the new mouse I got into a promotion series from the bottom of Silver III, so the hardware is totally worth it.
Also, getting new toys makes you happier, so you win more.
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hmm. i was thinking about getting a new mouse because of osu, actually. the cursor just feels sluggish for some reason. problem is, i've been using the same mouse for like 10 years (intellimouse 3.0).
still i don't think that mouse will make me any better at league.
actually one thing that has been bothering me at league has been the latency. i'm in LA so i usually get 20-30 ping, but lately it seems that they bought server space somewhere else so sometimes it's 50-60 ping. and the timing on chaining certain skillshots can change (like syndra QE, jayce QEWRWQE) and it sometimes messes me up sometimes. really hate it when just syndra E comes out.
it's not so much that the rent lag is too damn high but that it's inconsistent and it changes timing.
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I was amused when I saw Elise spider form no longer granting bonus armor and magic resist.
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On May 16 2013 05:09 Dark_Chill wrote:
I think probably the biggest reason why I'm still in silver is my late game decision making and calling. On average, my support is alright, and sometimes my Lulu can win lanes. Come late game though, my warding goes down as I forget about it, and I don't really put any effort into trying to make people go to certain spots or do certain things, and sometimes I'll use my skills on the wrong target. Maybe instead of using my spells to protect the AD I use it on our bruiser so that he can get over to the other team, and that just cost us the fight. Now that summer's here I hope I can improve on these aspects a lot.
The key to late game warding in non-pro-level games is convincing a buddy to come with you. The reason is that "bad" players do "stupid" things like camp random bushes for inexplicably long amounts of time. My pet peeve is the "bush of death" around baron, because you can't ward it from over a wall, half the time there is a random Jarvan, or Diana waiting there, and even if you do a max range ward plant you still can die.
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Difference between an average silver and a high elo player is almost all knowledge. Silver players make huge errors in positioning(Sitting by a large enemy creep wave vs like 2 creeps, none going to die for example), as well as misjudging trades and almost never looking at wards. Also it's the in game decisions like when to go for dragon and grouping.
Finally, there is finding farm when behind/lane phase ends. This is something lower level players have absurd amounts of trouble with, and one of the biggest differences between low and high levels.
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EPT
