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On May 09 2013 06:47 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:37 Capriccioso wrote:
It might sound elitist, but I do agree that anyone below Diamond 1 is "bad." Hell, I would even even stretch it to around D1 50 LP. After all, D1 0 LP is around where 2k - 2.1k was early Season 3. However, being "bad" is not a problem. I got challenger and I still think I'm bad at this game and am constantly trying to find holes to my play. The problem is when people think they are good and become complacent where they are at. Having the attitude that oneself is always bad, never being satisfied, and always looking for ways to improve will help you get to the top. I think that this attitude is shared between most high elo/professional players. Not enough pros on NA think like this. It's a problem. Complacency is always a problem.
In the west, these kinds of players always exist when the game is still new. They just haven't died off yet, because of popularity, Riot's welfare, the fact that nobody is really stepping up to the plate and the fact that team strategy and experience is more important than individual skill.
On May 09 2013 06:51 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:44 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 06:25 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:15 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 05:22 Ketara wrote:I think the whole "you have to be a high level player to understand the game" argument is complete bullshit, but that's just my two cents. Wasn't the guy who popularized AP Tryndamere like, low plat? Monte was yelling about jungle Nasus more than a month before Diamondprox started doing it and we all know Monte is bad. It's perfectly understandable that somebody can have a high level understanding and concept for what's going on while they're watching replays, but a low level capability for making their hands do the things with the key hitting and the timing and the multitasking. Wave good case in point here too. Makes perfect sense to have team analysts. I think the mechanical skill needed to execute things in League is so low that someone who can't get to at least plat has no idea what he's talking about. Just because some low-level theory got proven to be valid for higher levels doesn't really mean much. You only remember/hear about the things that were correct, but for every one like that there are hundreds that were blatantly wrong. A broken clock is still correct at least twice a day, as they say. Obviously you can have great understanding of the game without having the skill to use it, but I think that almost doesn't apply to League of legends. Nothing is hard to execute, if you can't do something properly then that means you're lacking in some sort of knowledge. I doubt a gold analyst will be better than a diamond analyst. It might not be a necessity, but it's definitely not bad. In my opinion, anyone not Diamond I (skill level) is bad. You may call me retarded or way too hard, but that's just what I think. You're literally saying that 99.9% of players, including a lot of professional players, are bad. Diamond 1 doesn't even make up 0.5% of the community. You're also saying that probably all of the professional casters/commentators, as well as probably all of the game design and balance team, don't know what they're doing/talking about. You're also probably saying that all of the Asian teams coaches/analysts/what have you don't know what they're doing/talking about. This viewpoint is just empirically wrong, and I would challenge you to change your way of thinking. Why would I change my way of thinking? I don't think I'm wrong. In fact, I think I'm right. You can be a bad player and a good analyst/coach/commentator. I feel like you just skipped over the first 80% of my post. If you're a player and you're not Diamond I, you're bad. I do think that professional casters/commentators (everybody except Jatt) are bad players. I disagree with most of the choices of the balance team, too. They just nerf every problem instead of dealing with it normally. You can be a good champion designer and a bad player. I think the very idea that somebody could know how to design the game but not how to play the game is completely ridiculous, but that's just me. If that was true, you'd see a lot more champions who would be hilariously OP/UP at release. You don't. Even in the terms we talk about things being too good or not too good enough, they never break like 40-60% winrates. If somebody had no idea how to play the game but was designing champions they'd be putting out characters that exceed that variance by a lot. Just because you disagree with their ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. Your entire mindset about this smacks of egotism, to me. Releasing imbalanced characters has nothing to do with how good they are as players. But just to argue your point, you will see that many, many, many champions were blatantly broken on release and had to be nerfed many times. Riven, Irelia, Vayne, Liss I think is too strong as well, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Quinn (she already got 4 buffs so obviously they think that they released her way too weak), Ahri, Diana, Lulu, Zyra, Thresh, Nocturne, rework Kat.. And that's not all. Maybe you don't notice the nerfs, but they exist. I actually find it hard to remember when Riot released a champion and didn't touch him for at least 3 months. Maybe that never happened. There's no need to insult me just because I have a different opinion than you, either. "this guy thinks everyone is bad, he must be so egotistical and jerking his dick off trying to prove how good he is" Sure.. It's not like I could possibly have other reasons, no. I'm a big asshole who just wants to stroke his own ego. Lissandra I think is a special case where she's broken at both ends of the spectrum in different ways. At the high end her kit gives her far too much damage and utility so she's broken, and at the lower end(~95+% of the population), she sucks because people can't use her. Every single lissandra I've seen at the high plat/low diamond level has made the champion look utterly broken, Lolking backs it up, with lissandra basically being lowest winrate at bronze/silver/gold, but not at plat+
They will definitely be nerfing her base damages. Riot probably doesn't want her to become a second Zyra, so hopefully they won't touch her scaling, but I can imagine plenty of people are already crying about nerfs because she has 4 nukes which is enough to kill literally everyone if she's a little fed, a slow, a stun/free zhonyas and a nice escape/gapcloser. All in one kit. I wonder what Riot will really do to her.
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Also, it is true that the majority of casters/commentators don't know what they are talking about. This is ok if they can offer something else other than game knowledge such as excitement or having a nice voice or whatever. However, I would appreciate if more tournaments could be cast by pro/semi-pro players like they sometimes are in Dota2.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iOmb7hG.jpg) The new champ looks like these guys from Diablo II.
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I really don't think your level determines 100% you capacity of theorycrafting. Sure, if you're stuck in Bronze, you're definitely bad, but playing the game and analyzing from outside isn't the same thing.
When stressed ingame I personnaly do things that I would find utterly stupid when seeing it on a stream. I mean that you aren't necessarily intuitive to find the best solution in a few seconds but need a few minutes. This doesn't mean you don't understand the game imo. These analyzers aren't in the game so they have time to think, refine, calculate every stategy and come up with awesome ideas.
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On May 09 2013 06:44 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 06:25 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:15 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 05:22 Ketara wrote:I think the whole "you have to be a high level player to understand the game" argument is complete bullshit, but that's just my two cents. Wasn't the guy who popularized AP Tryndamere like, low plat? Monte was yelling about jungle Nasus more than a month before Diamondprox started doing it and we all know Monte is bad. It's perfectly understandable that somebody can have a high level understanding and concept for what's going on while they're watching replays, but a low level capability for making their hands do the things with the key hitting and the timing and the multitasking. Wave good case in point here too. Makes perfect sense to have team analysts. I think the mechanical skill needed to execute things in League is so low that someone who can't get to at least plat has no idea what he's talking about. Just because some low-level theory got proven to be valid for higher levels doesn't really mean much. You only remember/hear about the things that were correct, but for every one like that there are hundreds that were blatantly wrong. A broken clock is still correct at least twice a day, as they say. Obviously you can have great understanding of the game without having the skill to use it, but I think that almost doesn't apply to League of legends. Nothing is hard to execute, if you can't do something properly then that means you're lacking in some sort of knowledge. I doubt a gold analyst will be better than a diamond analyst. It might not be a necessity, but it's definitely not bad. In my opinion, anyone not Diamond I (skill level) is bad. You may call me retarded or way too hard, but that's just what I think. You're literally saying that 99.9% of players, including a lot of professional players, are bad. Diamond 1 doesn't even make up 0.5% of the community. You're also saying that probably all of the professional casters/commentators, as well as probably all of the game design and balance team, don't know what they're doing/talking about. You're also probably saying that all of the Asian teams coaches/analysts/what have you don't know what they're doing/talking about. This viewpoint is just empirically wrong, and I would challenge you to change your way of thinking. Why would I change my way of thinking? I don't think I'm wrong. In fact, I think I'm right. You can be a bad player and a good analyst/coach/commentator. I feel like you just skipped over the first 80% of my post. If you're a player and you're not Diamond I, you're bad. I do think that professional casters/commentators (everybody except Jatt) are bad players. I disagree with most of the choices of the balance team, too. They just nerf every problem instead of dealing with it normally. You can be a good champion designer and a bad player. I think the very idea that somebody could know how to design the game but not how to play the game is completely ridiculous, but that's just me. If that was true, you'd see a lot more champions who would be hilariously OP/UP at release. You don't. Even in the terms we talk about things being too good or not too good enough, they never break like 40-60% winrates. If somebody had no idea how to play the game but was designing champions they'd be putting out characters that exceed that variance by a lot. Just because you disagree with their ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. Your entire mindset about this smacks of egotism, to me. Releasing imbalanced characters has nothing to do with how good they are as players. But just to argue your point, you will see that many, many, many champions were blatantly broken on release and had to be nerfed many times. Riven, Irelia, Vayne, Liss I think is too strong as well, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Quinn (she already got 4 buffs so obviously they think that they released her way too weak), Ahri, Diana, Lulu, Zyra, Thresh, Nocturne, rework Kat.. And that's not all. Maybe you don't notice the nerfs, but they exist. I actually find it hard to remember when Riot released a champion and didn't touch him for at least 3 months. Maybe that never happened. There's no need to insult me just because I have a different opinion than you, either. "this guy thinks everyone is bad, he must be so egotistical and jerking his dick off trying to prove how good he is" Sure.. It's not like I could possibly have other reasons, no. I'm a big asshole who just wants to stroke his own ego.
Varus?
IDK, I never have liked him anyways, some crude bridge between Ashe, Cait, and Vayne.
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On May 09 2013 06:44 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 06:25 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:15 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 05:22 Ketara wrote:I think the whole "you have to be a high level player to understand the game" argument is complete bullshit, but that's just my two cents. Wasn't the guy who popularized AP Tryndamere like, low plat? Monte was yelling about jungle Nasus more than a month before Diamondprox started doing it and we all know Monte is bad. It's perfectly understandable that somebody can have a high level understanding and concept for what's going on while they're watching replays, but a low level capability for making their hands do the things with the key hitting and the timing and the multitasking. Wave good case in point here too. Makes perfect sense to have team analysts. I think the mechanical skill needed to execute things in League is so low that someone who can't get to at least plat has no idea what he's talking about. Just because some low-level theory got proven to be valid for higher levels doesn't really mean much. You only remember/hear about the things that were correct, but for every one like that there are hundreds that were blatantly wrong. A broken clock is still correct at least twice a day, as they say. Obviously you can have great understanding of the game without having the skill to use it, but I think that almost doesn't apply to League of legends. Nothing is hard to execute, if you can't do something properly then that means you're lacking in some sort of knowledge. I doubt a gold analyst will be better than a diamond analyst. It might not be a necessity, but it's definitely not bad. In my opinion, anyone not Diamond I (skill level) is bad. You may call me retarded or way too hard, but that's just what I think. You're literally saying that 99.9% of players, including a lot of professional players, are bad. Diamond 1 doesn't even make up 0.5% of the community. You're also saying that probably all of the professional casters/commentators, as well as probably all of the game design and balance team, don't know what they're doing/talking about. You're also probably saying that all of the Asian teams coaches/analysts/what have you don't know what they're doing/talking about. This viewpoint is just empirically wrong, and I would challenge you to change your way of thinking. Why would I change my way of thinking? I don't think I'm wrong. In fact, I think I'm right. You can be a bad player and a good analyst/coach/commentator. I feel like you just skipped over the first 80% of my post. If you're a player and you're not Diamond I, you're bad. I do think that professional casters/commentators (everybody except Jatt) are bad players. I disagree with most of the choices of the balance team, too. They just nerf every problem instead of dealing with it normally. You can be a good champion designer and a bad player. I think the very idea that somebody could know how to design the game but not how to play the game is completely ridiculous, but that's just me. If that was true, you'd see a lot more champions who would be hilariously OP/UP at release. You don't. Even in the terms we talk about things being too good or not too good enough, they never break like 40-60% winrates. If somebody had no idea how to play the game but was designing champions they'd be putting out characters that exceed that variance by a lot. Just because you disagree with their ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. Your entire mindset about this smacks of egotism, to me. Releasing imbalanced characters has nothing to do with how good they are as players. But just to argue your point, you will see that many, many, many champions were blatantly broken on release and had to be nerfed many times. Riven, Irelia, Vayne, Liss I think is too strong as well, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Quinn (she already got 4 buffs so obviously they think that they released her way too weak), Ahri, Diana, Lulu, Zyra, Thresh, Nocturne, rework Kat.. And that's not all. Maybe you don't notice the nerfs, but they exist. I actually find it hard to remember when Riot released a champion and didn't touch him for at least 3 months. Maybe that never happened. There's no need to insult me just because I have a different opinion than you, either. "this guy thinks everyone is bad, he must be so egotistical and jerking his dick off trying to prove how good he is" Sure.. It's not like I could possibly have other reasons, no. I'm a big asshole who just wants to stroke his own ego.
Draven has pretty much never been touched since release. They changed how his axe mechanics work for one patch and then reverted them. The only real change to him so far is that his axes can't fall behind terrain anymore. *
*In before "itemization changes changed everybody!"
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On May 09 2013 06:56 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:44 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 06:25 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:15 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 05:22 Ketara wrote:I think the whole "you have to be a high level player to understand the game" argument is complete bullshit, but that's just my two cents. Wasn't the guy who popularized AP Tryndamere like, low plat? Monte was yelling about jungle Nasus more than a month before Diamondprox started doing it and we all know Monte is bad. It's perfectly understandable that somebody can have a high level understanding and concept for what's going on while they're watching replays, but a low level capability for making their hands do the things with the key hitting and the timing and the multitasking. Wave good case in point here too. Makes perfect sense to have team analysts. I think the mechanical skill needed to execute things in League is so low that someone who can't get to at least plat has no idea what he's talking about. Just because some low-level theory got proven to be valid for higher levels doesn't really mean much. You only remember/hear about the things that were correct, but for every one like that there are hundreds that were blatantly wrong. A broken clock is still correct at least twice a day, as they say. Obviously you can have great understanding of the game without having the skill to use it, but I think that almost doesn't apply to League of legends. Nothing is hard to execute, if you can't do something properly then that means you're lacking in some sort of knowledge. I doubt a gold analyst will be better than a diamond analyst. It might not be a necessity, but it's definitely not bad. In my opinion, anyone not Diamond I (skill level) is bad. You may call me retarded or way too hard, but that's just what I think. You're literally saying that 99.9% of players, including a lot of professional players, are bad. Diamond 1 doesn't even make up 0.5% of the community. You're also saying that probably all of the professional casters/commentators, as well as probably all of the game design and balance team, don't know what they're doing/talking about. You're also probably saying that all of the Asian teams coaches/analysts/what have you don't know what they're doing/talking about. This viewpoint is just empirically wrong, and I would challenge you to change your way of thinking. Why would I change my way of thinking? I don't think I'm wrong. In fact, I think I'm right. You can be a bad player and a good analyst/coach/commentator. I feel like you just skipped over the first 80% of my post. If you're a player and you're not Diamond I, you're bad. I do think that professional casters/commentators (everybody except Jatt) are bad players. I disagree with most of the choices of the balance team, too. They just nerf every problem instead of dealing with it normally. You can be a good champion designer and a bad player. I think the very idea that somebody could know how to design the game but not how to play the game is completely ridiculous, but that's just me. If that was true, you'd see a lot more champions who would be hilariously OP/UP at release. You don't. Even in the terms we talk about things being too good or not too good enough, they never break like 40-60% winrates. If somebody had no idea how to play the game but was designing champions they'd be putting out characters that exceed that variance by a lot. Just because you disagree with their ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. Your entire mindset about this smacks of egotism, to me. Releasing imbalanced characters has nothing to do with how good they are as players. But just to argue your point, you will see that many, many, many champions were blatantly broken on release and had to be nerfed many times. Riven, Irelia, Vayne, Liss I think is too strong as well, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Quinn (she already got 4 buffs so obviously they think that they released her way too weak), Ahri, Diana, Lulu, Zyra, Thresh, Nocturne, rework Kat.. And that's not all. Maybe you don't notice the nerfs, but they exist. I actually find it hard to remember when Riot released a champion and didn't touch him for at least 3 months. Maybe that never happened. There's no need to insult me just because I have a different opinion than you, either. "this guy thinks everyone is bad, he must be so egotistical and jerking his dick off trying to prove how good he is" Sure.. It's not like I could possibly have other reasons, no. I'm a big asshole who just wants to stroke his own ego. Varus? IDK, I never have liked him anyways, some crude bridge between Ashe, Cait, and Vayne.
I guess. They buffed his ulti some time after his release, but that's it.
On May 09 2013 06:57 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:44 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 06:25 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:15 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 05:22 Ketara wrote:I think the whole "you have to be a high level player to understand the game" argument is complete bullshit, but that's just my two cents. Wasn't the guy who popularized AP Tryndamere like, low plat? Monte was yelling about jungle Nasus more than a month before Diamondprox started doing it and we all know Monte is bad. It's perfectly understandable that somebody can have a high level understanding and concept for what's going on while they're watching replays, but a low level capability for making their hands do the things with the key hitting and the timing and the multitasking. Wave good case in point here too. Makes perfect sense to have team analysts. I think the mechanical skill needed to execute things in League is so low that someone who can't get to at least plat has no idea what he's talking about. Just because some low-level theory got proven to be valid for higher levels doesn't really mean much. You only remember/hear about the things that were correct, but for every one like that there are hundreds that were blatantly wrong. A broken clock is still correct at least twice a day, as they say. Obviously you can have great understanding of the game without having the skill to use it, but I think that almost doesn't apply to League of legends. Nothing is hard to execute, if you can't do something properly then that means you're lacking in some sort of knowledge. I doubt a gold analyst will be better than a diamond analyst. It might not be a necessity, but it's definitely not bad. In my opinion, anyone not Diamond I (skill level) is bad. You may call me retarded or way too hard, but that's just what I think. You're literally saying that 99.9% of players, including a lot of professional players, are bad. Diamond 1 doesn't even make up 0.5% of the community. You're also saying that probably all of the professional casters/commentators, as well as probably all of the game design and balance team, don't know what they're doing/talking about. You're also probably saying that all of the Asian teams coaches/analysts/what have you don't know what they're doing/talking about. This viewpoint is just empirically wrong, and I would challenge you to change your way of thinking. Why would I change my way of thinking? I don't think I'm wrong. In fact, I think I'm right. You can be a bad player and a good analyst/coach/commentator. I feel like you just skipped over the first 80% of my post. If you're a player and you're not Diamond I, you're bad. I do think that professional casters/commentators (everybody except Jatt) are bad players. I disagree with most of the choices of the balance team, too. They just nerf every problem instead of dealing with it normally. You can be a good champion designer and a bad player. I think the very idea that somebody could know how to design the game but not how to play the game is completely ridiculous, but that's just me. If that was true, you'd see a lot more champions who would be hilariously OP/UP at release. You don't. Even in the terms we talk about things being too good or not too good enough, they never break like 40-60% winrates. If somebody had no idea how to play the game but was designing champions they'd be putting out characters that exceed that variance by a lot. Just because you disagree with their ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. Your entire mindset about this smacks of egotism, to me. Releasing imbalanced characters has nothing to do with how good they are as players. But just to argue your point, you will see that many, many, many champions were blatantly broken on release and had to be nerfed many times. Riven, Irelia, Vayne, Liss I think is too strong as well, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Quinn (she already got 4 buffs so obviously they think that they released her way too weak), Ahri, Diana, Lulu, Zyra, Thresh, Nocturne, rework Kat.. And that's not all. Maybe you don't notice the nerfs, but they exist. I actually find it hard to remember when Riot released a champion and didn't touch him for at least 3 months. Maybe that never happened. There's no need to insult me just because I have a different opinion than you, either. "this guy thinks everyone is bad, he must be so egotistical and jerking his dick off trying to prove how good he is" Sure.. It's not like I could possibly have other reasons, no. I'm a big asshole who just wants to stroke his own ego. Draven has pretty much never been touched since release. They changed how his axe mechanics work for one patch and then reverted them. The only real change to him so far is that his axes can't fall behind terrain anymore. * *In before "itemization changes changed everybody!"
I'll have to agree, as well. It looks like they're either good at releasing balanced AD carries, or they are so similar to each other and so different from everyone else that they're easy to balance. A part of me kinda expects some nerfs to be coming to Draven, though, because he has just so much damage and dominance in the laning phase.
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On May 09 2013 06:55 -Zoda- wrote:
I really don't think your level determines 100% you capacity of theorycrafting. Sure, if you're stuck in Bronze, you're definitely bad, but playing the game and analyzing from outside isn't the same thing.
When stressed ingame I personnaly do things that I would find utterly stupid when seeing it on a stream. I mean that you aren't necessarily intuitive to find the best solution in a few seconds but need a few minutes. This doesn't mean you don't understand the game imo. These analyzers aren't in the game so they have time to think, refine, calculate every stategy and come up with awesome ideas.
if you need a few minutes and not a few seconds it means you didn't analyze the situation before and you need to
it DOES NOT mean you are some genius who thinks slowly it just means you didn't know that shit. Anyone can learn, but potential to learn doesn't mean anything because as I said anyone can learn.
if you watch something on stream its easy to see it dumb because hindsight 20/20, and when you do things that are utterly stupid its because hindsight 20/20. Making the correct decision in time means you are taking into account lots of potential factors which, if you don't and do something stupid it becomes obvious THEN.
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On May 09 2013 06:49 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:47 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 09 2013 06:37 Capriccioso wrote:
It might sound elitist, but I do agree that anyone below Diamond 1 is "bad." Hell, I would even even stretch it to around D1 50 LP. After all, D1 0 LP is around where 2k - 2.1k was early Season 3. However, being "bad" is not a problem. I got challenger and I still think I'm bad at this game and am constantly trying to find holes to my play. The problem is when people think they are good and become complacent where they are at. Having the attitude that oneself is always bad, never being satisfied, and always looking for ways to improve will help you get to the top. I think that this attitude is shared between most high elo/professional players. Not enough pros on NA think like this. It's a problem. Complacency is always a problem. Double "I'm the best everyone else is trash" Lift
When I watch Liftlift stream, he basically calls himself bad every game he plays, so yeah...
Why does Azubu.tv exist? Why can't everything just be on twitch so it's easy to follow all the pros you want. I'm only half-joking.
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United States15536 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:00 Capriccioso wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:49 Requizen wrote:On May 09 2013 06:47 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 09 2013 06:37 Capriccioso wrote:
It might sound elitist, but I do agree that anyone below Diamond 1 is "bad." Hell, I would even even stretch it to around D1 50 LP. After all, D1 0 LP is around where 2k - 2.1k was early Season 3. However, being "bad" is not a problem. I got challenger and I still think I'm bad at this game and am constantly trying to find holes to my play. The problem is when people think they are good and become complacent where they are at. Having the attitude that oneself is always bad, never being satisfied, and always looking for ways to improve will help you get to the top. I think that this attitude is shared between most high elo/professional players. Not enough pros on NA think like this. It's a problem. Complacency is always a problem. Double "I'm the best everyone else is trash" Lift When I watch Liftlift stream, he basically calls himself bad every game he plays, so yeah... Why does Azubu.tv exist? Why can't everything just be on twitch so it's easy to follow all the pros you want. I'm only half-joking.
It shouldn't even be a half-joke. Monopolies kill ingenuity or w/e, but srsly just go to Twitch plz. My convenience > all.
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On May 09 2013 06:41 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:35 upperbound wrote:On May 09 2013 06:24 wei2coolman wrote:
Isn't that around 300 AD on urgot?
So 250% crit, is 750? Not too far off? Yeah but the target should still have at least 35-40 armor left even worst case. Also, this was in ARAM, just to cut off further doubts about circumstances. Could be armor reduction due to other champions on your team?
Lvl 18 Urgot (118) With IE (70), Black Cleaver (50), Manamune (20+2% mana, lets say ~50 total), Pickaxe (25) and Longsword (10) Would be a total of ~323 AD without runes or masteries.
Masteries grant 15 AD, 6% dmg against targets below 50%, 2% total damage, 5% crit damage. 8% Armorpen, 5 Armorpen.
Runes also provide AD or Armorpen. There might also be critdamage here.
800 crit doesn't seem too far off depending on enemy armor. And apparently since it happened it was probably possible.
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On May 09 2013 07:00 Capriccioso wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:49 Requizen wrote:On May 09 2013 06:47 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 09 2013 06:37 Capriccioso wrote:
It might sound elitist, but I do agree that anyone below Diamond 1 is "bad." Hell, I would even even stretch it to around D1 50 LP. After all, D1 0 LP is around where 2k - 2.1k was early Season 3. However, being "bad" is not a problem. I got challenger and I still think I'm bad at this game and am constantly trying to find holes to my play. The problem is when people think they are good and become complacent where they are at. Having the attitude that oneself is always bad, never being satisfied, and always looking for ways to improve will help you get to the top. I think that this attitude is shared between most high elo/professional players. Not enough pros on NA think like this. It's a problem. Complacency is always a problem. Double "I'm the best everyone else is trash" Lift When I watch Liftlift stream, he basically calls himself bad every game he plays, so yeah... Why does Azubu.tv exist? Why can't everything just be on twitch so it's easy to follow all the pros you want. I'm only half-joking.
Competition is good for consumers. Twitch would have a much less incentive to improve their service if own3d / azubu didn't exist.
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On May 09 2013 07:01 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:41 wei2coolman wrote:On May 09 2013 06:35 upperbound wrote:On May 09 2013 06:24 wei2coolman wrote:
Isn't that around 300 AD on urgot?
So 250% crit, is 750? Not too far off? Yeah but the target should still have at least 35-40 armor left even worst case. Also, this was in ARAM, just to cut off further doubts about circumstances. Could be armor reduction due to other champions on your team? Lvl 18 Urgot (118) With IE (70), Black Cleaver (50), Manamune (20+2% mana, lets say ~50 total), Pickaxe (25) and Longsword (10) Would be a total of ~323 AD without runes or masteries. Masteries grant 15 AD, 6% dmg against targets below 50%, 2% total damage, 5% crit damage. 8% Armorpen, 5 Armorpen. Runes also provide AD or Armorpen. There might also be critdamage here. 800 crit doesn't seem too far off depending on enemy armor. And apparently since it happened it was probably possible.
Don't forget 20% shred if you land E. Urgot can basically deal almost true damage to everybody below ~100 armor. 800 crit is absolutely possible
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On May 09 2013 06:59 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:55 -Zoda- wrote:
I really don't think your level determines 100% you capacity of theorycrafting. Sure, if you're stuck in Bronze, you're definitely bad, but playing the game and analyzing from outside isn't the same thing.
When stressed ingame I personnaly do things that I would find utterly stupid when seeing it on a stream. I mean that you aren't necessarily intuitive to find the best solution in a few seconds but need a few minutes. This doesn't mean you don't understand the game imo. These analyzers aren't in the game so they have time to think, refine, calculate every stategy and come up with awesome ideas. if you need a few minutes and not a few seconds it means you didn't analyze the situation before and you need to it DOES NOT mean you are some genius who thinks slowly it just means you didn't know that shit. Anyone can learn, but potential to learn doesn't mean anything because as I said anyone can learn. if you watch something on stream its easy to see it dumb because hindsight 20/20, and when you do things that are utterly stupid its because hindsight 20/20. Making the correct decision in time means you are taking into account lots of potential factors which, if you don't and do something stupid it becomes obvious THEN.
This may be one of the only times I've ever seen what I perceive my problem to be summed up. Essentially that having gamesense 'outside of the game' means nothing if you can't perform under pressure.
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On May 09 2013 07:05 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:59 Slayer91 wrote:On May 09 2013 06:55 -Zoda- wrote:
I really don't think your level determines 100% you capacity of theorycrafting. Sure, if you're stuck in Bronze, you're definitely bad, but playing the game and analyzing from outside isn't the same thing.
When stressed ingame I personnaly do things that I would find utterly stupid when seeing it on a stream. I mean that you aren't necessarily intuitive to find the best solution in a few seconds but need a few minutes. This doesn't mean you don't understand the game imo. These analyzers aren't in the game so they have time to think, refine, calculate every stategy and come up with awesome ideas. if you need a few minutes and not a few seconds it means you didn't analyze the situation before and you need to it DOES NOT mean you are some genius who thinks slowly it just means you didn't know that shit. Anyone can learn, but potential to learn doesn't mean anything because as I said anyone can learn. if you watch something on stream its easy to see it dumb because hindsight 20/20, and when you do things that are utterly stupid its because hindsight 20/20. Making the correct decision in time means you are taking into account lots of potential factors which, if you don't and do something stupid it becomes obvious THEN. This may be one of the only times I've ever seen what I perceive my problem to be summed up. Essentially that having gamesense 'outside of the game' means nothing if you can't perform under pressure.
Everyone has things they are bad at. We just need to improve on them
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United States37500 Posts
On May 09 2013 07:00 Capriccioso wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:49 Requizen wrote:On May 09 2013 06:47 NeoIllusions wrote:On May 09 2013 06:37 Capriccioso wrote:
It might sound elitist, but I do agree that anyone below Diamond 1 is "bad." Hell, I would even even stretch it to around D1 50 LP. After all, D1 0 LP is around where 2k - 2.1k was early Season 3. However, being "bad" is not a problem. I got challenger and I still think I'm bad at this game and am constantly trying to find holes to my play. The problem is when people think they are good and become complacent where they are at. Having the attitude that oneself is always bad, never being satisfied, and always looking for ways to improve will help you get to the top. I think that this attitude is shared between most high elo/professional players. Not enough pros on NA think like this. It's a problem. Complacency is always a problem. Double "I'm the best everyone else is trash" Lift When I watch Liftlift stream, he basically calls himself bad every game he plays, so yeah... Why does Azubu.tv exist? Why can't everything just be on twitch so it's easy to follow all the pros you want. I'm only half-joking.
I mean just take a look at him back in his Curse days. lololol
When Double sat down and actually thought about what kind of personality he wanted to be known for, he didn't want to go the route of the Koreans (quite and humble) which is who he really is.
This flamboyant front is that, just a front. If you want to anti-CLG, go right ahead. But calling out Double on his "trashtalk" is just ignorance.
ty
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On May 09 2013 06:44 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 06:25 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:15 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 05:22 Ketara wrote:I think the whole "you have to be a high level player to understand the game" argument is complete bullshit, but that's just my two cents. Wasn't the guy who popularized AP Tryndamere like, low plat? Monte was yelling about jungle Nasus more than a month before Diamondprox started doing it and we all know Monte is bad. It's perfectly understandable that somebody can have a high level understanding and concept for what's going on while they're watching replays, but a low level capability for making their hands do the things with the key hitting and the timing and the multitasking. Wave good case in point here too. Makes perfect sense to have team analysts. I think the mechanical skill needed to execute things in League is so low that someone who can't get to at least plat has no idea what he's talking about. Just because some low-level theory got proven to be valid for higher levels doesn't really mean much. You only remember/hear about the things that were correct, but for every one like that there are hundreds that were blatantly wrong. A broken clock is still correct at least twice a day, as they say. Obviously you can have great understanding of the game without having the skill to use it, but I think that almost doesn't apply to League of legends. Nothing is hard to execute, if you can't do something properly then that means you're lacking in some sort of knowledge. I doubt a gold analyst will be better than a diamond analyst. It might not be a necessity, but it's definitely not bad. In my opinion, anyone not Diamond I (skill level) is bad. You may call me retarded or way too hard, but that's just what I think. You're literally saying that 99.9% of players, including a lot of professional players, are bad. Diamond 1 doesn't even make up 0.5% of the community. You're also saying that probably all of the professional casters/commentators, as well as probably all of the game design and balance team, don't know what they're doing/talking about. You're also probably saying that all of the Asian teams coaches/analysts/what have you don't know what they're doing/talking about. This viewpoint is just empirically wrong, and I would challenge you to change your way of thinking. Why would I change my way of thinking? I don't think I'm wrong. In fact, I think I'm right. You can be a bad player and a good analyst/coach/commentator. I feel like you just skipped over the first 80% of my post. If you're a player and you're not Diamond I, you're bad. I do think that professional casters/commentators (everybody except Jatt) are bad players. I disagree with most of the choices of the balance team, too. They just nerf every problem instead of dealing with it normally. You can be a good champion designer and a bad player. I think the very idea that somebody could know how to design the game but not how to play the game is completely ridiculous, but that's just me. If that was true, you'd see a lot more champions who would be hilariously OP/UP at release. You don't. Even in the terms we talk about things being too good or not too good enough, they never break like 40-60% winrates. If somebody had no idea how to play the game but was designing champions they'd be putting out characters that exceed that variance by a lot. Just because you disagree with their ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. Your entire mindset about this smacks of egotism, to me. Releasing imbalanced characters has nothing to do with how good they are as players. But just to argue your point, you will see that many, many, many champions were blatantly broken on release and had to be nerfed many times. Riven, Irelia, Vayne, Liss I think is too strong as well, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Quinn (she already got 4 buffs so obviously they think that they released her way too weak), Ahri, Diana, Lulu, Zyra, Thresh, Nocturne, rework Kat.. And that's not all. Maybe you don't notice the nerfs, but they exist. I actually find it hard to remember when Riot released a champion and didn't touch him for at least 3 months. Maybe that never happened. There's no need to insult me just because I have a different opinion than you, either. "this guy thinks everyone is bad, he must be so egotistical and jerking his dick off trying to prove how good he is" Sure.. It's not like I could possibly have other reasons, no. I'm a big asshole who just wants to stroke his own ego.
Riven wasn't good until she got fixed with quality of life buffs.
Irelia was buffed once before she started getting nerfs.
Rengar got buffed after release for every skill except his W AP ratio which got nerfed due to what was probably oversight. He was still broken, though.
Kha was untouched for 6 patches before he finally got nerfed; partially due to being overshadowed by Rengar.
Zed got some of his damage shuffled around, but was mostly untouched until his most recent nerf.
Whenever people say that Riot always released OP champions then nerfs them it just bugs me because it's very much untrue. You went all the way back to Riven so I'll start there. Xerath, Fizz, Volibear, Viktor, Sejuani, Ziggs, Nautilus, Fiora, Varus, Draven, Syndra, Nami. None of those champions were touched in any meaningful way after release for quite a long time.
On May 09 2013 06:58 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:56 cLutZ wrote:On May 09 2013 06:44 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 06:25 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:15 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 05:22 Ketara wrote:I think the whole "you have to be a high level player to understand the game" argument is complete bullshit, but that's just my two cents. Wasn't the guy who popularized AP Tryndamere like, low plat? Monte was yelling about jungle Nasus more than a month before Diamondprox started doing it and we all know Monte is bad. It's perfectly understandable that somebody can have a high level understanding and concept for what's going on while they're watching replays, but a low level capability for making their hands do the things with the key hitting and the timing and the multitasking. Wave good case in point here too. Makes perfect sense to have team analysts. I think the mechanical skill needed to execute things in League is so low that someone who can't get to at least plat has no idea what he's talking about. Just because some low-level theory got proven to be valid for higher levels doesn't really mean much. You only remember/hear about the things that were correct, but for every one like that there are hundreds that were blatantly wrong. A broken clock is still correct at least twice a day, as they say. Obviously you can have great understanding of the game without having the skill to use it, but I think that almost doesn't apply to League of legends. Nothing is hard to execute, if you can't do something properly then that means you're lacking in some sort of knowledge. I doubt a gold analyst will be better than a diamond analyst. It might not be a necessity, but it's definitely not bad. In my opinion, anyone not Diamond I (skill level) is bad. You may call me retarded or way too hard, but that's just what I think. You're literally saying that 99.9% of players, including a lot of professional players, are bad. Diamond 1 doesn't even make up 0.5% of the community. You're also saying that probably all of the professional casters/commentators, as well as probably all of the game design and balance team, don't know what they're doing/talking about. You're also probably saying that all of the Asian teams coaches/analysts/what have you don't know what they're doing/talking about. This viewpoint is just empirically wrong, and I would challenge you to change your way of thinking. Why would I change my way of thinking? I don't think I'm wrong. In fact, I think I'm right. You can be a bad player and a good analyst/coach/commentator. I feel like you just skipped over the first 80% of my post. If you're a player and you're not Diamond I, you're bad. I do think that professional casters/commentators (everybody except Jatt) are bad players. I disagree with most of the choices of the balance team, too. They just nerf every problem instead of dealing with it normally. You can be a good champion designer and a bad player. I think the very idea that somebody could know how to design the game but not how to play the game is completely ridiculous, but that's just me. If that was true, you'd see a lot more champions who would be hilariously OP/UP at release. You don't. Even in the terms we talk about things being too good or not too good enough, they never break like 40-60% winrates. If somebody had no idea how to play the game but was designing champions they'd be putting out characters that exceed that variance by a lot. Just because you disagree with their ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. Your entire mindset about this smacks of egotism, to me. Releasing imbalanced characters has nothing to do with how good they are as players. But just to argue your point, you will see that many, many, many champions were blatantly broken on release and had to be nerfed many times. Riven, Irelia, Vayne, Liss I think is too strong as well, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Quinn (she already got 4 buffs so obviously they think that they released her way too weak), Ahri, Diana, Lulu, Zyra, Thresh, Nocturne, rework Kat.. And that's not all. Maybe you don't notice the nerfs, but they exist. I actually find it hard to remember when Riot released a champion and didn't touch him for at least 3 months. Maybe that never happened. There's no need to insult me just because I have a different opinion than you, either. "this guy thinks everyone is bad, he must be so egotistical and jerking his dick off trying to prove how good he is" Sure.. It's not like I could possibly have other reasons, no. I'm a big asshole who just wants to stroke his own ego. Varus? IDK, I never have liked him anyways, some crude bridge between Ashe, Cait, and Vayne. I guess. They buffed his ulti some time after his release, but that's it. Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:57 thenexusp wrote:On May 09 2013 06:44 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 06:25 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:15 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 05:22 Ketara wrote:I think the whole "you have to be a high level player to understand the game" argument is complete bullshit, but that's just my two cents. Wasn't the guy who popularized AP Tryndamere like, low plat? Monte was yelling about jungle Nasus more than a month before Diamondprox started doing it and we all know Monte is bad. It's perfectly understandable that somebody can have a high level understanding and concept for what's going on while they're watching replays, but a low level capability for making their hands do the things with the key hitting and the timing and the multitasking. Wave good case in point here too. Makes perfect sense to have team analysts. I think the mechanical skill needed to execute things in League is so low that someone who can't get to at least plat has no idea what he's talking about. Just because some low-level theory got proven to be valid for higher levels doesn't really mean much. You only remember/hear about the things that were correct, but for every one like that there are hundreds that were blatantly wrong. A broken clock is still correct at least twice a day, as they say. Obviously you can have great understanding of the game without having the skill to use it, but I think that almost doesn't apply to League of legends. Nothing is hard to execute, if you can't do something properly then that means you're lacking in some sort of knowledge. I doubt a gold analyst will be better than a diamond analyst. It might not be a necessity, but it's definitely not bad. In my opinion, anyone not Diamond I (skill level) is bad. You may call me retarded or way too hard, but that's just what I think. You're literally saying that 99.9% of players, including a lot of professional players, are bad. Diamond 1 doesn't even make up 0.5% of the community. You're also saying that probably all of the professional casters/commentators, as well as probably all of the game design and balance team, don't know what they're doing/talking about. You're also probably saying that all of the Asian teams coaches/analysts/what have you don't know what they're doing/talking about. This viewpoint is just empirically wrong, and I would challenge you to change your way of thinking. Why would I change my way of thinking? I don't think I'm wrong. In fact, I think I'm right. You can be a bad player and a good analyst/coach/commentator. I feel like you just skipped over the first 80% of my post. If you're a player and you're not Diamond I, you're bad. I do think that professional casters/commentators (everybody except Jatt) are bad players. I disagree with most of the choices of the balance team, too. They just nerf every problem instead of dealing with it normally. You can be a good champion designer and a bad player. I think the very idea that somebody could know how to design the game but not how to play the game is completely ridiculous, but that's just me. If that was true, you'd see a lot more champions who would be hilariously OP/UP at release. You don't. Even in the terms we talk about things being too good or not too good enough, they never break like 40-60% winrates. If somebody had no idea how to play the game but was designing champions they'd be putting out characters that exceed that variance by a lot. Just because you disagree with their ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. Your entire mindset about this smacks of egotism, to me. Releasing imbalanced characters has nothing to do with how good they are as players. But just to argue your point, you will see that many, many, many champions were blatantly broken on release and had to be nerfed many times. Riven, Irelia, Vayne, Liss I think is too strong as well, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Quinn (she already got 4 buffs so obviously they think that they released her way too weak), Ahri, Diana, Lulu, Zyra, Thresh, Nocturne, rework Kat.. And that's not all. Maybe you don't notice the nerfs, but they exist. I actually find it hard to remember when Riot released a champion and didn't touch him for at least 3 months. Maybe that never happened. There's no need to insult me just because I have a different opinion than you, either. "this guy thinks everyone is bad, he must be so egotistical and jerking his dick off trying to prove how good he is" Sure.. It's not like I could possibly have other reasons, no. I'm a big asshole who just wants to stroke his own ego. Draven has pretty much never been touched since release. They changed how his axe mechanics work for one patch and then reverted them. The only real change to him so far is that his axes can't fall behind terrain anymore. * *In before "itemization changes changed everybody!" I'll have to agree, as well. It looks like they're either good at releasing balanced AD carries, or they are so similar to each other and so different from everyone else that they're easy to balance. A part of me kinda expects some nerfs to be coming to Draven, though, because he has just so much damage and dominance in the laning phase.
I don't really agree. The most recent ad carries released are Quinn, Draven, Varus, Graves, and Vayne. Graves and Vayne were extremely broken on release. Draven and Varus weren't considered strong on release but that was due to how dominating the holy trinity of Ez-Corki-Graves was at the time. If anything, Riot's not very good at balancing AD carries imo. First it was the Ez-Corki-Graves trinity; then they nerfed them all to oblivion. Now you see Varus in almost every game; you have a wider variety now, but it's still somewhat skewed.
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On May 09 2013 07:01 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:41 wei2coolman wrote:On May 09 2013 06:35 upperbound wrote:On May 09 2013 06:24 wei2coolman wrote:
Isn't that around 300 AD on urgot?
So 250% crit, is 750? Not too far off? Yeah but the target should still have at least 35-40 armor left even worst case. Also, this was in ARAM, just to cut off further doubts about circumstances. Could be armor reduction due to other champions on your team? Lvl 18 Urgot (118) With IE (70), Black Cleaver (50), Manamune (20+2% mana, lets say ~50 total), Pickaxe (25) and Longsword (10) Would be a total of ~323 AD without runes or masteries. Masteries grant 15 AD, 6% dmg against targets below 50%, 2% total damage, 5% crit damage. 8% Armorpen, 5 Armorpen. Runes also provide AD or Armorpen. There might also be critdamage here. 800 crit doesn't seem too far off depending on enemy armor. And apparently since it happened it was probably possible.
Let's do the math through
As above, 323 AD from base+items
15 AD from masteries
0.95*9+2.25*3 from runes
8% additional damage from masteries
5% crit damage
Total pre-mitigation damage is
(323+15+9*0.95+3*2.25)*2.55*1.08 = 973
The armor needed to mitgate 973 to 800 (post-penetration) is
(100-100*800/973)*973/800 = 21.7
With 5 | 8% natural arpen from masteries, the pre-penetration value is
(21.7+5) / 0.92 = 29.0
So now the question is can you shred 100 armor to 29.0. With BC, Urgot E, and some other friendly effects, it is definitely doable. nid+renekton will do this easily, as will several other combinations of armor shred effects.
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On May 09 2013 06:44 OutlaW- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:30 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 06:25 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 06:15 Ketara wrote:On May 09 2013 05:36 OutlaW- wrote:On May 09 2013 05:22 Ketara wrote:I think the whole "you have to be a high level player to understand the game" argument is complete bullshit, but that's just my two cents. Wasn't the guy who popularized AP Tryndamere like, low plat? Monte was yelling about jungle Nasus more than a month before Diamondprox started doing it and we all know Monte is bad. It's perfectly understandable that somebody can have a high level understanding and concept for what's going on while they're watching replays, but a low level capability for making their hands do the things with the key hitting and the timing and the multitasking. Wave good case in point here too. Makes perfect sense to have team analysts. I think the mechanical skill needed to execute things in League is so low that someone who can't get to at least plat has no idea what he's talking about. Just because some low-level theory got proven to be valid for higher levels doesn't really mean much. You only remember/hear about the things that were correct, but for every one like that there are hundreds that were blatantly wrong. A broken clock is still correct at least twice a day, as they say. Obviously you can have great understanding of the game without having the skill to use it, but I think that almost doesn't apply to League of legends. Nothing is hard to execute, if you can't do something properly then that means you're lacking in some sort of knowledge. I doubt a gold analyst will be better than a diamond analyst. It might not be a necessity, but it's definitely not bad. In my opinion, anyone not Diamond I (skill level) is bad. You may call me retarded or way too hard, but that's just what I think. You're literally saying that 99.9% of players, including a lot of professional players, are bad. Diamond 1 doesn't even make up 0.5% of the community. You're also saying that probably all of the professional casters/commentators, as well as probably all of the game design and balance team, don't know what they're doing/talking about. You're also probably saying that all of the Asian teams coaches/analysts/what have you don't know what they're doing/talking about. This viewpoint is just empirically wrong, and I would challenge you to change your way of thinking. Why would I change my way of thinking? I don't think I'm wrong. In fact, I think I'm right. You can be a bad player and a good analyst/coach/commentator. I feel like you just skipped over the first 80% of my post. If you're a player and you're not Diamond I, you're bad. I do think that professional casters/commentators (everybody except Jatt) are bad players. I disagree with most of the choices of the balance team, too. They just nerf every problem instead of dealing with it normally. You can be a good champion designer and a bad player. I think the very idea that somebody could know how to design the game but not how to play the game is completely ridiculous, but that's just me. If that was true, you'd see a lot more champions who would be hilariously OP/UP at release. You don't. Even in the terms we talk about things being too good or not too good enough, they never break like 40-60% winrates. If somebody had no idea how to play the game but was designing champions they'd be putting out characters that exceed that variance by a lot. Just because you disagree with their ideas doesn't mean they're wrong. Your entire mindset about this smacks of egotism, to me. Releasing imbalanced characters has nothing to do with how good they are as players. But just to argue your point, you will see that many, many, many champions were blatantly broken on release and had to be nerfed many times. Riven, Irelia, Vayne, Liss I think is too strong as well, Rengar, Khazix, Zed, Quinn (she already got 4 buffs so obviously they think that they released her way too weak), Ahri, Diana, Lulu, Zyra, Thresh, Nocturne, rework Kat.. And that's not all. Maybe you don't notice the nerfs, but they exist. I actually find it hard to remember when Riot released a champion and didn't touch him for at least 3 months. Maybe that never happened. There's no need to insult me just because I have a different opinion than you, either. "this guy thinks everyone is bad, he must be so egotistical and jerking his dick off trying to prove how good he is" Sure.. It's not like I could possibly have other reasons, no. I'm a big asshole who just wants to stroke his own ego.
It's obvious that champions numbers will be tweaked after they're released. Even in the absolute best testing environment you can't perfectly predict what's going to happen in live play all the time. You can't even predict what's going to happen in live play some of the time. Champions needing number tweaks to get on point is something the balance team is assuming will happen, I can guarantee you that. If they don't need to tweak a champs numbers in the first 3 months they probably have an office party about it.
You assume that because a champion needs small fixes, such as quality of life changes or numbers adjustments, that that's symbolic of bad design. By those standards, every single game that has ever been made ever is designed badly.
Examples of the design team actually screwing up to me would be if something was so broken it needed to be hotfixed. That's happened a couple times. It happened with Zyra, it happened with BotRK. But the vast majority of the time this is not the case.
Name me the number of champions released in the last year that have had to have entire skills removed and reworked to do different things, or who had to be hotfixed, or who had to be disabled because they were too screwed up. Zyra is the only one I can think of. Rengar possibly, we'll see what they do with him.
You are expecting perfection and calling perfection "good", and calling anything less than perfection bad. That's a very screwed up way to look at things.
Also, in response to the 3rd best Riven NA (Cap's a cool dude), calling yourself bad and saying you need to improve is a good and healthy thing, that I agree not enough people do. Calling everybody bad is really just being a dick.
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On May 09 2013 07:05 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:59 Slayer91 wrote:On May 09 2013 06:55 -Zoda- wrote:
I really don't think your level determines 100% you capacity of theorycrafting. Sure, if you're stuck in Bronze, you're definitely bad, but playing the game and analyzing from outside isn't the same thing.
When stressed ingame I personnaly do things that I would find utterly stupid when seeing it on a stream. I mean that you aren't necessarily intuitive to find the best solution in a few seconds but need a few minutes. This doesn't mean you don't understand the game imo. These analyzers aren't in the game so they have time to think, refine, calculate every stategy and come up with awesome ideas. if you need a few minutes and not a few seconds it means you didn't analyze the situation before and you need to it DOES NOT mean you are some genius who thinks slowly it just means you didn't know that shit. Anyone can learn, but potential to learn doesn't mean anything because as I said anyone can learn. if you watch something on stream its easy to see it dumb because hindsight 20/20, and when you do things that are utterly stupid its because hindsight 20/20. Making the correct decision in time means you are taking into account lots of potential factors which, if you don't and do something stupid it becomes obvious THEN. This may be one of the only times I've ever seen what I perceive my problem to be summed up. Essentially that having gamesense 'outside of the game' means nothing if you can't perform under pressure.
this is one of 2 things
a: you're not taking into account all the factors because your brain is slacking off and being lazy in general. This is just a general health thing and more to do with being not tired/eating well/not stressed blah blah
b: you don't understand the situation well enough to make a decision without having hindsight on your side
i.e imagine you have some equation which you don't know how to solve. Say you're dumb as shit and can't solve quadratic equations. Once someone tells you what does solve the equation its obvious but at the time you had no idea.
the general thing to do here if you CAN see the problem after the game you need to analyse it right then and once you have a full understanding of it you won't need more than a few second to make the decision.
its really not a "oh my old bones can't keep up with you young whippsnappers" situation which pretty much all "theorycrafters" tend to fall back on
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EPT
