|
If you get smashed you played badly period. Your knowledge of the game OR your awareness probably both were really bad and you got punished for it. Thinking that theres going to be high elo smurfs or high rated players on a bad streak anywhere near 1300 is a pretty pathetic excuse because there's no reason you can't beat them anyway. Anyway any "high elo guy on a bad streak" who ends up at 1300 is going to be 1500 max.
You have a flawed understanding of the game. It's pretty hilarious that you are having trouble accepting you might be outplayed top or if you got smashed it's "more likely that you played bad". Everyone on TL plays like shit every game relative to perfection. If you're 1300 you play like total shit compared to even 1600 guys. If you aren't willing to realize that you have a problem if you want to improve. If you start blaming things on junglers or counterpicks it gets you nowhere. Because when your opponents who you counterpick beat you its because they play back and junglers come and when you lose to counterpicks it's because you didn't know how to properly play a losing lane.
10000's of people die to the same god damn level 3 jungler gank at 3 minutes over and over again top lane and every game they're blaming their jungler or something like that for not being there at the same time. You shouldn't have to be one of those.
It's even worse if you don't question the conclusions you get from your games. If I lose a game and refuse to admit it's because I was outplayed in lane maybe I invent that lane match up being a counterpick just because I didn't find a way to win that game. If Im lucky ill see someone else play the same lane and do fine. I guess my nasus backround gave me a good understanding of how fragile "counterpicking" really is and how it can so easily change based on small mistakes, being too aggressive with an advantage and builds.
|
United States47024 Posts
On February 01 2013 07:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
Play for self-improvement first and foremost. Play for fun second. Patches makes this game easier and harder in different areas but guess what, just play your best and fucking carry. Stop QQ'ing.
wtf no
Play for fun first, always.
|
Self-improvement is fun. People go for runs not because it's fun but because they enjoyed it afterward even if it was difficult at first.
You can play normals or ranked 5's with friends or normal 5's with friends if you don't care that much about self-improvement, it's what its there for.
On February 01 2013 07:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
All dis mad in GD today.
I think 99% of the time, I read about changes in LoL and I just shrug and go "hmm, ok". Boot up League and go play a game.
Play for self-improvement first and foremost. Play for fun second. Patches makes this game easier and harder in different areas but guess what, just play your best and fucking carry. Stop QQ'ing.
PSA by your neighborhood-friendly Nocturne. <3 TL LoL
Alright, i'll go to sleep, neo. I know a threat when I see one!
|
On February 01 2013 07:39 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:36 barbsq wrote:On February 01 2013 06:58 TheYango wrote:
Elo is overly granular though. It give TOO MUCH info in a way, because elo gains of 10, 20, or even 100 Elo can represent background noise and not improvement. Obviously anyone familiar with the system knows this, but many aren't and draw false conclusions from their elo spiking up or down by 100.
The purpose of this system is to put in a filter that obscures statistical fluctuation so less knowledgeable players don't draw false conclusions from incorrectly interpreting their elo gains/losses. I feel like the solution to that would be to produce mores stats so they are easier to interpret (eg, running avg elo, stdev over a period of x games, %rsd, etc) rather than making the population even more ignorant. Mybe that's just me being naive tho. There is a lot of "Let me mid I'm pro just won XX games with Y champion" in champ select in solo queue though. So many people who think that they are pro, even though the sample size is way too small to be representative. <3 Neo for his sober approach.
The opposite of that is soooo annoying too. "Ill go mid" "No I mid you lost your last 4 games as mid clearly you're the worst player on the planet"
yeah..
|
On February 01 2013 07:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
All dis mad in GD today.
I think 99% of the time, I read about changes in LoL and I just shrug and go "hmm, ok". Boot up League and go play a game.
Play for self-improvement first and foremost. Play for fun second. Patches makes this game easier and harder in different areas but guess what, just play your best and fucking carry. Stop QQ'ing.
PSA by your neighborhood-friendly Nocturne. <3 TL LoL
Dis toxic mindset.
Fun es #1
Fun es always #1
|
On February 01 2013 07:43 Slayer91 wrote:
If you get smashed you played badly period. Your knowledge of the game OR your awareness probably both were really bad and you got punished for it. Thinking that theres going to be high elo smurfs or high rated players on a bad streak anywhere near 1300 is a pretty pathetic excuse because there's no reason you can't beat them anyway. Anyway any "high elo guy on a bad streak" who ends up at 1300 is going to be 1500 max.
You have a flawed understanding of the game. It's pretty hilarious that you are having trouble accepting you might be outplayed top or if you got smashed it's "more likely that you played bad". Everyone on TL plays like shit every game relative to perfection. If you're 1300 you play like total shit compared to even 1600 guys. If you aren't willing to realize that you have a problem if you want to improve. If you start blaming things on junglers or counterpicks it gets you nowhere. Because when your opponents who you counterpick beat you its because they play back and junglers come and when you lose to counterpicks it's because you didn't know how to properly play a losing lane.
10000's of people die to the lane god damn level 3 jungler gank at 3 minutes over and over again top lane and every game they're blaming their jungler or something like that for not being there at the same time. You shouldn't have to be one of those.
It's even worse if you don't question the conclusions you get from your games. If I lose a game and refuse to admit it's because I was outplayed in lane maybe I invent that lane match up being a counterpick just because I didn't find a way to win that game. If Im lucky ill see someone else play the same lane and do fine. I guess my nasus backround gave me a good understanding of how fragile "counterpicking" really is and how it can so easily change based on small mistakes, being too aggressive with an advantage and builds.
I recognize far too much of myself in this post T.T
Especially the getting ganked at 3/4 minutes part. People always gank the top lane, even if I ward
|
United States47024 Posts
On February 01 2013 07:44 Slayer91 wrote:
Self-improvement is fun. People go for runs not because it's fun but because they enjoyed it afterward even if it was difficult at first.
I agree with that, but if you're in the position where you're prioritizing the two rather than self-improvement being fun, then ranked probably isn't for you.
|
On February 01 2013 07:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
Play for self-improvement first and foremost. Play for fun second. Patches makes this game easier and harder in different areas but guess what, just play your best and fucking carry. Stop QQ'ing.
wtf no Play for fun first, always.
there's someone's signature on here that's like "if you rage, you care more about your petty feelings than winning".
I'm always like, is that intended ironically...?
|
United States37500 Posts
On February 01 2013 07:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
Play for self-improvement first and foremost. Play for fun second. Patches makes this game easier and harder in different areas but guess what, just play your best and fucking carry. Stop QQ'ing.
wtf no Play for fun first, always.
I find winning fun. So for me, I like to improve as I play and win. It's a matter of perspective.
And it's a video game, who isn't playing LoL out of the fun factor of this game? zzz
|
On February 01 2013 07:45 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:43 Slayer91 wrote:
If you get smashed you played badly period. Your knowledge of the game OR your awareness probably both were really bad and you got punished for it. Thinking that theres going to be high elo smurfs or high rated players on a bad streak anywhere near 1300 is a pretty pathetic excuse because there's no reason you can't beat them anyway. Anyway any "high elo guy on a bad streak" who ends up at 1300 is going to be 1500 max.
You have a flawed understanding of the game. It's pretty hilarious that you are having trouble accepting you might be outplayed top or if you got smashed it's "more likely that you played bad". Everyone on TL plays like shit every game relative to perfection. If you're 1300 you play like total shit compared to even 1600 guys. If you aren't willing to realize that you have a problem if you want to improve. If you start blaming things on junglers or counterpicks it gets you nowhere. Because when your opponents who you counterpick beat you its because they play back and junglers come and when you lose to counterpicks it's because you didn't know how to properly play a losing lane.
10000's of people die to the lane god damn level 3 jungler gank at 3 minutes over and over again top lane and every game they're blaming their jungler or something like that for not being there at the same time. You shouldn't have to be one of those.
It's even worse if you don't question the conclusions you get from your games. If I lose a game and refuse to admit it's because I was outplayed in lane maybe I invent that lane match up being a counterpick just because I didn't find a way to win that game. If Im lucky ill see someone else play the same lane and do fine. I guess my nasus backround gave me a good understanding of how fragile "counterpicking" really is and how it can so easily change based on small mistakes, being too aggressive with an advantage and builds. I recognize far too much of myself in this post T.T Especially the getting ganked at 3/4 minutes part. People always gank the top lane, even if I ward
LOL, i was thinking the exact same thing, glad i'm not the only one ^^
edit: except that I have no illusions that i'm a particularly good player. I've made peace with that some time ago.
|
On February 01 2013 07:45 Doctorbeat wrote:
I recognize far too much of myself in this post T.T
Especially the getting ganked at 3/4 minutes part. People always gank the top lane, even if I ward
Once a week or two back or something I was feeling particularly clear minded and I was playing jax, I think. I was at my tower because I let the guy push since I was blue side and didn't want to get raped. It was about to push back. I was thinking "now I can get aggressive". Then I thought "but If I was a jungler, I might see that pushed lane as an opportunity for a lane brush gank when it pushes out and get an easy kill even if he has a ward". Sure enough, I jumped the guy but backed off quickly and just as I jumped the jungler came out of the brush but they couldnt do anything because I didn't take the bait. It was one of those situations where if you were on autopilot you'd be like this
-ok let him push because scared of jungler
-ok lane is pushed for like 2 minutes straight it's pushing out finally I can play agressive!
-go agressive for the first time in the entire game jungler comes out of brush
FLIP TABLES FUCKING JUNGLERS ALWAYS ON MY LANE 24/7
it feels like that because you were constantly afraid of the potential jungle gank and then you ignore the potential gank then and it just feels like you had zero opportunites to play the lane but you never know how badly you fuck a junglers xp when he's sitting in a brush for 2 minutes and you don't take the bait especially if your jungler gets kills elsewhere.
And after that the top laner wastes so much time top, you can put a ward down and the lane pushes so he can't lane gank any more and you can crush the enemy top laner and still have lost nothing despite 1000 other potential you's being 0-1 or 0-2 or 0-3
|
On February 01 2013 07:50 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:45 Doctorbeat wrote:
I recognize far too much of myself in this post T.T
Especially the getting ganked at 3/4 minutes part. People always gank the top lane, even if I ward Once a week or two back or something I was feeling particularly clear minded and I was playing jax or something and I was at my tower because I let the guy push since I was blue side and didn't want to get raped. And it was about to push back I was thinking "now I can get aggressive" but then I thought "but If I was a jungler, I might see that pushed lane as an opportunity for a lane brush gank when it pushes out and get an easy kill even if he has a ward". Sure enough, I jumped the guy but backed off quickly and just as I jumped the jungler came out of the brush but they couldnt do anything because I didn't take the bait. It was one of those situations where if you were on autopilot you'd be like this -ok let him push because scared of jungler -ok lane is pushed for like 2 minutes straight it's pushing out finally I can play agressive! -go agressive for the first time in the entire game jungler comes out of brush FLIP TABLES FUCKING JUNGLERS ALWAYS ON MY LANE 24/7 it feels like that because you were constantly afraid of the potential jungle gank and then you ignore the potential gank then and it just feels like you had zero opportunites to play the lane but you never know how badly you fuck a junglers xp when he's sitting in a brush for 2 minutes and you don't take the bait especially if your jungler gets kills elsewhere.
Also, when you just got a solo kill in lane, and are pushing out a bit low on life, and you think "If I can just get this creep wave and kill it at his tower, they won't die by my creeps." Killed me so many times, the greed 
And when they do actually gank you like twice between the first 2 mins, you get incredibly damn paranoid and are afraid to trade any damage at all, since that guy might just be still in that brush.
|
On February 01 2013 07:43 Slayer91 wrote:
If you get smashed you played badly period. Your knowledge of the game OR your awareness probably both were really bad and you got punished for it. Thinking that theres going to be high elo smurfs or high rated players on a bad streak anywhere near 1300 is a pretty pathetic excuse because there's no reason you can't beat them anyway. Anyway any "high elo guy on a bad streak" who ends up at 1300 is going to be 1500 max.
You have a flawed understanding of the game. It's pretty hilarious that you are having trouble accepting you might be outplayed top or if you got smashed it's "more likely that you played bad". Everyone on TL plays like shit every game relative to perfection. If you're 1300 you play like total shit compared to even 1600 guys. If you aren't willing to realize that you have a problem if you want to improve. If you start blaming things on junglers or counterpicks it gets you nowhere. Because when your opponents who you counterpick beat you its because they play back and junglers come and when you lose to counterpicks it's because you didn't know how to properly play a losing lane.
10000's of people die to the lane god damn level 3 jungler gank at 3 minutes over and over again top lane and every game they're blaming their jungler or something like that for not being there at the same time. You shouldn't have to be one of those.
Hm, knew I explained it badly. I told it from the point of view where the Elo where I was feeling comfortable end of s2 was ~1400, it'd fluctuate between 1300 and 1500 but nearer 1300 I tended to win lane easily and impact the game more, while nearer 1500 I'd get carried much more often. So when getting smashed ~1500 I'd think "I miss something this guy has that makes him better, but what?", ~1300 it'd be "it is more likely that he's a 1500 in disguise, or that I played worse than usual /lacked something I usually have and need to make reliable?".
And yeah, reading it I realize that it's flawed, since I should always view winning as "being less bad" rather than sometimes that, sometimes "being better". But that's how I reason off the cut, so exposing it "reasonably" here would just be hypocritical. I know I'm trash and my mind knows it, but my ego would rather have me think I'm good. Stupid ego. :[
As for being outplayed well I'm more experience and knowledgeable top or in the jungle than bot, so being better at evaluating threats when I get all-ined and the opponent lives with < 50 HP I'm more likely to think "Well he calculated that well" or "I underestimated the gap and exposed myself" when AD than top (and thus less likely to think "He overestimated his chances/didn't expect me to respond, and got lucky to survive/get the kill" to use the extremes).
I'm not saying it isn't a bad habit, or biais, or anything. I know it is, and it's bad, and only hinders my self-improvement. What I meant to say is that knowing I'm flawed and will misinterpret stuff by myself, having a structure (which Elo was an exemple of) gives me some kind of outside authority to hammer my head with so I don't get carried away. I called Elo "some kind of crutch" in that sense.
Relating to the system change in general, it's not that I'm particularly attached to Elo, it's the fact that the division system is obfuscating, even more imprecise (I can't tell about accuracy) and globally gives less information than what's currently in place.It's not that it's not Elo, it's that it's worse.
|
On February 01 2013 07:47 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:43 TheYango wrote:On February 01 2013 07:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
Play for self-improvement first and foremost. Play for fun second. Patches makes this game easier and harder in different areas but guess what, just play your best and fucking carry. Stop QQ'ing.
wtf no Play for fun first, always. I find winning fun. So for me, I like to improve as I play and win. It's a matter of perspective. And it's a video game, who isn't playing LoL out of the fun factor of this game? zzz
Yea talking about fun and stuff seems a little silly. You wouldn't be playing the game if there wasn't some kind of enjoyment in it for you. What that enjoyment is depends on person to person. Some people don't want to improve so playing for self-improvement isn't fun to them. Some people just want to become the best they can be so playing to improve is their fun. I didn't read the buildup(Just moved back to apartment) but seems like a silly conversation.
I think people just don't realize that what you might enjoy and what others enjoy can be completely different things.
EDIT: OMFG FXO OUT OF GROUP STAGE GG GG GG GG
|
But with ~25-30 divisions you'll get skill resolution at the ~100 elo range, which is about as fine of a meaningful distinction you had under the old system. This isn't SC2's 5 group system, it's 5 groups of 5 groups + challenger.
|
Alaric, I'm having some trouble understanding your points about Elo. I'm going to take a minute to review your posts (of which there are many) to try and get a better sense of where you're coming from before I comment further, but at face value I think you've been trying to use a hammer as a musical instrument and now that it's gone you're worried you won't know what to do when all this time you had a perfectly elegant singing voice.
Be back when I'm done rereading/parsing your posts.
|
Me improving from 1250 to 1450 was really, if I think about it broadly, was really just done over improving slightly on few and very particular aspects of the game. I'm still a scrub but it's amazing how the accumulation of just a handful of skills/knowledge can bring your average up. If I go up another 200elo or something over the next couple of months it'll be due to the same thing. Slow and steady accumulation of a couple particular things.
|
United States37500 Posts
On February 01 2013 08:14 Seuss wrote:
Alaric, I'm having some trouble understanding your points about Elo. I'm going to take a minute to review your posts (of which there are many) to try and get a better sense of where you're coming from before I comment further, but at face value I think you've been trying to use a hammer as a musical instrument and now that it's gone you're worried you won't know what to do when all this time you had a perfectly elegant singing voice.
Be back when I'm done rereading/parsing your posts.
Cliffnotes plz, when you're done.
>_>
lol.
|
United States37500 Posts
On February 01 2013 08:16 koreasilver wrote:
Me improving from 1250 to 1450 was really, if I think about it broadly, was really just done over improving slightly on few and very particular aspects of the game. I'm still a scrub but it's amazing how the accumulation of just a handful of skills/knowledge can bring your average up. If I go up another 200elo or something over the next couple of months it'll be due to the same thing. Slow and steady accumulation of a couple particular things.
Mind sharing what in particular you focused on in those games that built up to a 200 point gain in elo?
|
On February 01 2013 07:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 07:39 NeoIllusions wrote:
Play for self-improvement first and foremost. Play for fun second. Patches makes this game easier and harder in different areas but guess what, just play your best and fucking carry. Stop QQ'ing.
wtf no Play for fun first, always.
Hence me commencing Project Bischu
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
