EPTJust ask 5hit about my ad TF bot lane.
If I really wanted to win I'd just play Singed top every game and be 1700+ by next week.
[Patch 1.0.0.154: Preseason Balance Update 2] GD - Page 219
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Just ask 5hit about my ad TF bot lane. If I really wanted to win I'd just play Singed top every game and be 1700+ by next week. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On February 01 2013 07:43 Slayer91 wrote: 10000's of people die to the same god damn level 3 jungler gank at 3 minutes over and over again top lane and every game they're blaming their jungler or something like that for not being there at the same time. You shouldn't have to be one of those. TBH I think this has been the most defining play in the game until top started getting wards. It literally happens EVERY GAME and NO ONE knows the timing window. | ||
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Complete
United States1864 Posts
On February 01 2013 08:27 zulu_nation8 wrote: TBH I think this has been the most defining play in the game until top started getting wards. It literally happens EVERY GAME and NO ONE knows the timing window. What's the timing window? | ||
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MCMilo
United States365 Posts
and SoN00B i think you should just call it "The Bischu Build" | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
 I'm not fond of those posts because it's a lot of talking about myself, but I think it could be applied to a lot of people when explaining Elo as the structure to get told "Dude, get off your high horse you fucked up there and that's all". Relatively to the population that doesn't buy into Elo hell and accepts it as an accurate tool obviously. The personal part would be me having trouble in general with "new" stuff (creating, discovering, etc.) compared to using what I already know. I got pretty pissed off at someone when pre-nerf Jayce was FotM because he'd tell me I'm bad and Irelia is actually a counter to Jayce, but wouldn't answer when I'd say "I'm ready to believe you and that she can stick to him, but then give me examples of how to do it because I think about it but fail to find myself". So having the structure to answer my "Why did it go wrong?" by "Not because of luck or him being a LoL God but because you fucked up somewhere, you chobo" kinda alleviates part of the work and allows me to focus on the important part ("what was the correct play there?"). And yeah, I suck at presenting stuff simply. :< Need to work on my singing voice in that department too. On February 01 2013 08:25 Two_DoWn wrote: What if my idea of fun is doing crazy shit? Just ask 5hit about my ad TF bot lane.. I'm sure you're having as much fun just thinking about said crazy shit and looking at what happens when you mention it to us. Depends on jungler, leash, and starting buff. I'm used to the timings for Mao/Amumu level 4 ganks top lane so I'd probably get raped by a bait after a smiteless -> level 3 double buff until I play them several games or learn by biting the dust. >_> Experience ftw. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On February 01 2013 08:25 Two_DoWn wrote: What if my idea of fun is doing crazy shit? Just ask 5hit about my ad TF bot lane. If I really wanted to win I'd just play Singed top every game and be 1700+ by next week. I call BS. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On February 01 2013 08:27 zulu_nation8 wrote: TBH I think this has been the most defining play in the game until top started getting wards. It literally happens EVERY GAME and NO ONE knows the timing window. I remember saying to myself once, "ok dude,you got this,you'll just back off for a bit so that lee sin doesn't kill you right after he's done with his red" 2 mins later "ok I think it's safe to poke my head out a bit more surely he isn't sitting in the brush still" Kefka has been slain "MOTHERFUCKER" never top lane again,always jungle never not jungle | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
seconded. sorry T_D. | ||
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Don_Julio
2220 Posts
I think I would have been scared to play in the current system. (I still remember my ladder anxiety from BW which stopped me from improving and following my goals: "Just got D+, better not play anymore games or I'm gonna lose it again and my winrate gets negative"). The new system might be able to help out since it might not feel as bad to lose positions in your division than losing 100 elo in a day, I dunno. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On February 01 2013 08:13 Numy wrote: Yea talking about fun and stuff seems a little silly. You wouldn't be playing the game if there wasn't some kind of enjoyment in it for you. What that enjoyment is depends on person to person. Some people don't want to improve so playing for self-improvement isn't fun to them. Some people just want to become the best they can be so playing to improve is their fun. I didn't read the buildup(Just moved back to apartment) but seems like a silly conversation. I think people just don't realize that what you might enjoy and what others enjoy can be completely different things. EDIT: OMFG FXO OUT OF GROUP STAGE GG GG GG GG People play for very different reasons, and I don't understand the need to tell other people what the "right" reason to play a game is. But not everyone plays it just because it's fun, many people -- me included -- play it partly just because they can't resist the impulse to play. I'll often queue up for another game even though I'm on tilt, didn't enjoy the last and don't expect to enjoy the next. In those cases (which make up a fair amount of games played) it's just sheer force of habit and lack of impulse control. I also noticed that many people seem to play because they feel a need to achieve some arbitrary milestone (first win of the day, get back X ELO, etc.), and they, too, often seem to lack the discipline to stop when they're in a mindset where they clearly aren't enjoying it anymore. (Yeah, in every case you're satisfying some urge, but there's a huge difference between saying that you're doing it for /some/ reason and that you enjoy what you're doing. And I think it's a dangerous self-delusion to pretend that people always enjoy what they're doing voluntarily, as convenient as that delusion may be. There'd be quite little suffering in the western world if that were true.) | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
You underestimate how stupid people are when it comes to dealing with Singed. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
The Top-Jungle situation Slayer91's talking about? 95% of Top laners fall for that shit but it's like common sense to a Jungler. As a Top player, what makes you exceptional is anticipating enemy Jungler's movement. This remind me of a talk I had with Loco at IPL5. The best Top laners he recognizes (MakNooN for Korea, Stanley outside of KR), they have insane star sense and know when ganks are coming. Whether or not MakNooN/Stanley actually try out Jungling is kind of a tangent but for us mere mortals, thinking from a perspective outside of first person is key. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
On February 01 2013 08:38 NeoIllusions wrote: I think for pros who solo q, they should practice the auxiliary role to their main. e.g Top-Jungle, Mid-Jungle, AD-Support. Just have a 'real' understanding of those auxiliary roles gives you a necessary insight on the lane as a whole, not simply from your main role's PoV. The Top-Jungle situation Slayer91's talking about? 95% of Top laners fall for that shit but it's like common sense to a Jungler. As a Top player, what makes you exceptional is anticipating enemy Jungler's movement. This remind me of a talk I had with Loco at IPL5. The best Top laners he recognizes (MakNooN for Korea, Stanley outside of KR), they have insane star sense and know when ganks are coming. Whether or not MakNooN/Stanley actually try out Jungling is kind of a tangent but for us mere mortals, thinking from a perspective outside of first person is key. related, #1 skill for a laner to learn to dramatically reduce # of deaths is learn when you're getting ganked. going for flashy solo kills is usually really dumb tbh, assisting jungler in ganks/avoiding enemy jungler ganks leads to much more easily convertible advantages than solo kills. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
Alaric likes the Elo number because he can put any particular game/streak in the context of that number. If he's on a streak in either direction he can judge reasonably well whether it's due to him being at an extreme end of his Elo variance or if he's actually improved/deteriorated. The new system is inarguably incapable of the same due to its abstraction and the inability to drop tiers. Alaric's method of putting his games into context is now defunct and he has no clear replacement. Those of us who are practiced in analysis or simply very experienced at a high level don't see the issue because we're used to ignoring Elo and making observations independent of any context outside of a particular game or streak. The whole hullabaloo seems overblown if you weren't relying on Elo to provide context. My advice to Alaric is to let go of the crutch, have some faith in his ability to identify his problems and successes, and take advantage of the fact that he doesn't have to pick himself up by his bootstraps to improve when he's got the best LoL community in the world available to help him. On February 01 2013 08:30 Alaric wrote: Change it to "You knew you had the potential for a perfectly elegant singing voice if you poured work into it, but having the instrument at hand was so much more convenient" and it's more or less that. I'm not fond of those posts because it's a lot of talking about myself, but I think it could be applied to a lot of people when explaining Elo as the structure to get told "Dude, get off your high horse you fucked up there and that's all". Relatively to the population that doesn't buy into Elo hell and accepts it as an accurate tool obviously. The personal part would be me having trouble in general with "new" stuff (creating, discovering, etc.) compared to using what I already know. I got pretty pissed off at someone when pre-nerf Jayce was FotM because he'd tell me I'm bad and Irelia is actually a counter to Jayce, but wouldn't answer when I'd say "I'm ready to believe you and that she can stick to him, but then give me examples of how to do it because I think about it but fail to find myself". So having the structure to answer my "Why did it go wrong?" by "Not because of luck or him being a LoL God but because you fucked up somewhere, you chobo" kinda alleviates part of the work and allows me to focus on the important part ("what was the correct play there?"). And yeah, I suck at presenting stuff simply. :< Need to work on my singing voice in that department too. You crazy posting while I'm still parsing your walls of text! Five years ago it actually took me less time to write paragraphs than sentences. I could write a dissertation length post in minutes, but a couple of sentences would take an entire lunch break. Some things you just have to work at. XD | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
around 3:05 - 3:30 depending on how good of a leash the jungler got, how fast he clears, which way he ganks tops from and how long he camps for. There should be a commandment that basically says DO NOT aggro top lane during 3 min to 3:30 if enemy jungler started the buff opposite top side, and if your jungler isn't near you. A lot of league of legends skill is based on knowledge. Knowledge is not something that needs to be practiced, but only learned. I'm constantly surprised at how many top lane mains don't know this, yet it's SO EASY to learn by simply watching ONE replay. If you die top during that timing window in a high level game it pretty much just kills the game for your team unless something magical happens. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
it's just not fun anymore. even from a self-improvement perspective it feels massively inefficient. i'm sure solo queue ELO means something with regard to your mythical absolute skill, but i don't think it's a very good measurement. there are so many skills that you can't build in solo... communication being one of the key ones. it is so much easier to say on voice "there's a ward here" "stun now" "bait him for jungle gank" etc., than it is to type. by the time you type a response it could already be too late. maybe you identified the perfect situation for you guys to dive in, but no one else read your intention and they retreated when you went in. or maybe you have some team composition you have in mind. you want to experiment with an AoE teamfight comp. well, good luck trying that with 3 or 4 strangers. there's the classic prisoner's dilemma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma it's based on two people not knowing what the other guy would do. the optimal decision is based on that. but the optimal decision changes when you know what the other guy would do, and you could both pick the right decision every time instead of playing this silly guessing game and developing your skill based on that. of course there are static mechanical skills and decision making skills you can develop playing solo, but there's nothing prohibiting you from developing those skills in organized team games. ... in short, play more 5s, lol | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On February 01 2013 08:38 NeoIllusions wrote:The Top-Jungle situation Slayer91's talking about? 95% of Top laners fall for that shit but it's like common sense to a Jungler. As a Top player, what makes you exceptional is anticipating enemy Jungler's movement. Learning Lee Sin and getting a really good feel for a lot of other junglers is what helped me take my game from 1300 to 1550. I used to have no idea where to expect the enemy jungler, but now I can predict where the enemy will be with very good accuracy. A lot of the time when I'm playing games with some of my friends who don't really play ranked, I'll be like "I bet x is going to be here" and then someone on my team dies about 10 seconds later where I said it would happen. Same deal in ranked games- a lot of times I can call out something before it happens, but my teammates think I'm some random scrub and don't listen to me, or they just don't have the game sense to realize how I'm making these calls. Made me appreciate how important having wards in good locations is- if you know where the enemy jungler is and you're mechanically sound, you're not going to die an awful lot. It also helped me realize when it is pointless/detrimental for the jungler to be ganking my lane, and to yell at them to not do it (which happens quite frequently). Usually they're like "Huh? I was trying to help..." since they're so used at getting yelled at for *not* ganking. Even though I'm not the best jungler, getting to a level where I understood the enemy jungler's thought process helps me in every other position. Knowing when it's safe to be aggressive and kill your opponent with minimal risk is a great skill to have- most people just brainlessly all in and wonder why they die. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
The funny part is, my biggest concern with the new system is the retardedness of the division syustem, and the only person that really touched on it was Roffles like 4 pages ago. Yeah, I'm probably overreacting and I'll get used to shit and the system isn't THAT bad of a way of measuring... What REALLY gets to me is that Riot (and Blizzard) assumes that having these divisions is a good way to measure our progress because we'll have a way to measure up to some 50-odd people around us in skill level and watch as we bypass them or fall behind, WHEN WE DON'T HAVE A GODDAMN CLUE WHO THOSE PEOPLE ARE. Yes, this is the same thing as the elo system in a way, but then why make that a point of contention as to the usefulness of your system? Divisions mean dick all, I get it. Why then, does Riot feel the need to tell us that they do?? Honestly I feel like I'd like the system better if you has some higher chance to be matched with people in oyur division, so you actually HAD a direct way of assessing your skill against the people around you. Edit: And those retarded division names as well. Holy shit. Like, did they have to copy EVERYTHING about Blizzard's ladder system? Sigma Tau Epsilon Phoenix FUCKING HORSESHIT. | ||
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