EPTh4h4
[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page…
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
h4h4 | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On November 09 2012 13:18 Craton wrote: It is a once in a lifetime experience for them, after all. h4h4 Ba dum tiss | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Found that thread on the official GD forums. Made me smile, too bad Tryndamere didn't peppered his answers with more serious stuff, it'd have been interesting. On November 09 2012 13:15 Ketara wrote: @Alaric: Hopefully you know this already, but if you walk into a bush Yoricks ghoul drop target. By popping into the bush and popping back out when he drops his sustain ghoul on you, you can limit his sustain to a degree. Yah, but then he Ws into the bush and the ghoul gives him vision, so it's kind of moot, which is why I usually don't like that advice.  Also if he ever decides to push hard the wave'll reach the tower with no bush in sight, then he'll just harass me while I try to cs under tower and he's out of its range. Normally it's when he's easy to gank. But you need to have a dependable jungler for this, which is something I profoundly lack in most of my matches against him (hilariously enough, I get a lot of ganks against Riven or GP for example, and very few against Yorick). So my quest is directed at solutions that don't involve my jungler camping (yeah, not only do I ask for attention, but I have expectations too... I must sound like a jerk actually). | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On November 09 2012 12:35 Alaric wrote: It went kind of like that even when I was behind, but it cost me a great chunk of my mana pool and it pushed the lane quite hard, as Yorick ran away as fast as he could when he saw he was losing the trade, Generally I win this hard, but spend a lot more mana than Yorick to do so, and tend to push the lane. So he tries to freeze it near his tower and it's the situation where I can't dive him even if he's low, and I can have sustained trades as he'll run to tower and I can only trade in bursts, which cost a lot more mana per damage since I have less ult procs. I also take a lot of damage so I have to use several pots while he can shrug it off with E that basically has no cost at that point. It's probably because I miss opportunities earlier on, so he's more ahead than he should when we have those fights, hence why I can't start zoning him after them. It's those opportunities/errors that I'm trying to identify. Maybe I should just run to him, instead of Qing, so he'll cast W and/or E while I'm not yet on top of him, and if I Q after that then the ghouls won't be in range yet to damage me. Don't use E unless you have to. Don't use Q every time its off CD (but you can still Q a lot). Hit W whenever. #1 Jax mistake is to pop E before you jump on them with Q (except when your jungler is coming, and you want the up front stun so your jungler can chain CC). Best case he walks up to CS when you have ult stacks so you can just auto-W. 2nd best case you Q him. Only use E when he starts fighting you. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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scarper65
1560 Posts
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On November 09 2012 13:41 thenexusp wrote: Man this whole "reveal 1 new item per day" thing really reminds me of that thing they do at MTG before the release of new sets... Where is this? On November 09 2012 13:50 nosliw wrote: I realized that I have been dying in midlane to jungle gank too often. I start boots 3, and I die with no vision around midlne. Every time I will win the exchange, so I go exchange more, and die to gank by jungler. Any tips on preventing early game midlane death by jungler? You have to know timings for junglers and what they like to do. You have to watch which way mid returns to lane and try to gauge the jungler's start. A standard start sees blue die ~2:15 and red die ~3:30. This means that the jungler is near mid between ~2:20 and 3:00. After red gets cleared, expect another gank lurking around 3:35-4:00 or so. The "standard" biggest danger period is really that 3:35-5:00 or so period, as the jungler has doubles and you're blind (this is why a lot of tops like to push hard early and back before this period). Red starts tend to favor early ganks, especially on champs that want to gank early (Lee, Shaco, etc.). If you red start and do a clear you pretty much end up at the same timings, just reversed. I often do this on champs with weak level 2 ganks to prevent counter-jungling or to show up somewhere at an unexpected time (e.g. a level 3 top gank at top 3 minutes as blue side Amumu). So basically, first you gauge the timing and where the jungler probably is (you can often use your own jungler as a mirror for standard clears). Next, you examine how pushed and/or damaged other lanes are for the likelihood that the jungler will choose one over the other. Then you look at the ganking ability of the jungler and the mobility the enemy laner. You also gauge the strength of both lanes. For instance, ganking for a level 2-3 vlad probably isn't going to amount to anything unless a lane is really pushed or you're a really strong ganker, while ganking for a level 2-3 Ryze lane is $$big money easy kill$$. Let's say I'm purple jungler and just finished red, so it's ~3:30 and I'm level 3 with doubles. I now am looking to gank mid or top or continue farming. If I'm a weak early ganker like Skarner and a lane is pushed toward their tower, I'm not going to try and gank. If I'm a strong ganker like Lee or Shaco, I probably don't care as much that you're relatively close to tower because I can still dunk you, so I'm probably going to head toward an evenly pushed top lane or continue farming. Now, if I'm Amumu and you're evenly pushed or cheating to the side I'm near, I'll try to hook you from the FoW or I'll try and flank you between minion waves. Which reminds me of my next point: cheat to one side when able, but care not to screw yourself. If you saw the jungler top jungle (or have reason to believe he is top jungle because of timings), then cheat toward bot side. If he comes, you can run away down the river. This stuff is all taken into account for predicting counter-ganks, doing counter-jungling, ganking in general, etc. There's a similar bit on predicting ward locations and whether being seen by a ward in a certain place even matters. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
If they show up in another lane, you have breathing room. Either run to them to intercept, or you now have free reign to push without being blindsided. You can also use this information to calculate how long it would take to get from a side lane to mid, and then back off accordingly. Also, if they're top coming to mid, you can play the "lower half" of your lane, knowing you can escape into the bot side brush if they come towards you. But really, unless you're playing someone with good cc early on, I'd just say not to push too hard before wards unless you know you're safe. It depends on who you're playing mid, but most can play safe. Also note, based on who you're playing, the likelyhood that you'll get camped. As a jungler, I like to camp Morde very hard early on to keep him from building up, but if you're playing someone like Anivia (who is difficult to gank), the jungler may not even bother as much. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On November 09 2012 13:50 nosliw wrote: I realized that I have been dying in midlane to jungle gank too often. I start boots 3, and I die with no vision around midlne. Every time I will win the exchange, so I go exchange more, and die to gank by jungler. Any tips on preventing early game midlane death by jungler? Experience, I'd say. Once you can judge your opponent's level you can try and estimate if he's making a mistake or baiting you, but that also means that the early levels are the most significant (well I play champs that trade a lot early when I'm playing mid, guess it's easier for Ryze/Veigar/Karthus/etc.). So it comes from knowledge of jungler timings and habits too (I'm way warier of a Maokai than of a Nocturne before my first back for example). I guess the generic advice would be "don't exchange more until you know his jungler isn't nearby", so you don't bait yourself? Official LoL GD forums, Xypherous posts a thread per day (well he's been for the past 3 days). That's where the information on ArPen/BC, Eleisia's Miracle and Tear/Archmage Staff came from. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On November 09 2012 14:04 HazMat wrote: Lol LOD has more viewers than Jiji. That fake fap shit was the smartest advertisement technique ever. im perfectly fine with jiji having low viewers, makes me feel like i belong in a special hipster club that not many people enjoy i went so far as to make my sleep schedule match his so that i never miss his stream | ||
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nosliw
United States2716 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 09 2012 14:09 nosliw wrote: But if the opponent is running kat, kass, etc mid who is melee or weak in early levels, how can I punish them effectively? I guess I have to tell the support to ward jungle instead of just bot lane? Not necessarily. You can roughly judge where the jungler is going to be based on their start. Take Amumu. He'll generally (as in probably always during solo queue) start blue, and not gank until he finishes red. He'll go Wolves-Blue-Wraiths-Wolves-Red-Wraiths (at least that was what it was when I used to play him), so you can guesstimate what side of the jungle he'll be on for most of the first ~4 minutes or so. Then, by watching where he ganks, you can tell where is safest for you to be. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
other than that its similar to top lane, you need to know where their jungler is and when you can push them for free i learned how to do it the hard way; always push (and harass) and when I would die i would ask myself why and not do that the next time if the same conditions were met | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On November 09 2012 14:09 nosliw wrote: But if the opponent is running kat, kass, etc mid who is melee or weak in early levels, how can I punish them effectively? I guess I have to tell the support to ward jungle instead of just bot lane? You just have to time your periods of harass around when the jungler likely isn't lurking and not overstay your welcome. Lot of lane advantages are lost just by staying pushed all day trying to stop a handful of last hits. Your jungler isn't going to have a ward for you early enough for it to matter, anyway. Only exception is like Nunu and Cho who can go 1 pot 1 ward, but you usually place that on top as they're the most vulnerable and prone to snowballing. Also, being melee doesn't necessarily make a champion weak early. | ||
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TheLink
Australia2725 Posts
A lot of under-used tops nowadays build GP10 into Triforce (Poppy, Gangplank, Nasus) and letting them go Avarice Blade -> Triforce -> Wicked Hatchet would have been great for both item and champion diversity. EDIT: Hell in some support cases I'd build an Avarice Blade to later turn it into a Hatchet vs someone like Swain. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11498 Posts
On November 09 2012 14:13 Requizen wrote: Not necessarily. You can roughly judge where the jungler is going to be based on their start. Take Amumu. He'll generally (as in probably always during solo queue) start blue, and not gank until he finishes red. He'll go Wolves-Blue-Wraiths-Wolves-Red-Wraiths (at least that was what it was when I used to play him), so you can guesstimate what side of the jungle he'll be on for most of the first ~4 minutes or so. Then, by watching where he ganks, you can tell where is safest for you to be. At the moment, by far the most popular start is wolves-smiteless blue-red-gank on most junglers. On the blue side they sometimes go wraiths-red-blue, but that is pretty rare. I don't know why, really, because it is pretty good as it allows you to reach top in time for that level 3 brawl. Thus, the danger time starts earlier. since people rarely farm until level 4 at the moment. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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