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United States47024 Posts
On November 08 2012 08:10 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:06 Alaric wrote:
It seems like it'd be better even bought on a supporty champ with numerous physical damage sources so he can shred people then the carry cleans up. MF's ult will stack it on top of the enemy team though, now just get some AoE nuke there (Pantheon as a late game peeler: MF ult, then you stun->HSS anyone that tries to get to her for 1k damage). I don't think that's likely. Not only is there currently NO supports who can deal physical damage beside autoattacking, they either do not have the range or do not have the attack speed to feasibly auto a target so many times to make BC worthwhile. This is going to be almost strictly a bruiser item. I am a little worried about how this will work on Corki and Draven though. It might make Corki into an assassin and make Draven nearly unstoppable.
I don't think he means actual supports, but top laners/junglers that fill more supportive teamfight roles (e.g. Yorick).
If Yorick ghoul autos proc BC it will be fantastic for him, particularly because of how his role is primarily focused on supporting the carries in fights already.
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i'm excited for BC change for urgod. Time to bust the crab out again.
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United States47024 Posts
I don't think that this will help AD casters TBH, because from the way it looks, the item will be most practical in two cases:
- You are an AD carry with an appropriate spell buying this for yourself
- You are a physical damage dealing top/jungler buying this item to support your AD carry--staying in fights and keeping buff uptime over their team will be more useful and practical than jumping in, assassinating one person, and then dying.
Practically speaking it STILL wouldn't help the AD caster/assassin role.
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Yeah, that's what I meant. "supporty" though often spells "magical damage spells" currently, so I guess there aren't two many champions that would be able to use it well (Garen with a mixed/physical damage jungler would be pretty huge though, or maybe Jayce with good focus to apply several stacks through ranged-W).
I'm also waiting for more on flat ArPen, as I'm pretty sure I won't want BC in lane (unless heavy armor stacking from the opponent) on champs such as Pantheon, Talon or Zed, but I still like the brutalizer. If you're an assassin, you're what Xypherous calls "selfish", so he says you should want Last Whisper... well, sure, but to kill squishy targets LW is not what I'll build first in lane. And if my only source of flat ArPen is a brutalizer that builds into something I don't want, then it won't be any different at all from currently, where I'll got maybe bruta, BT, LW with a GA somewhere in there.
In that case, what's the point of "broadening AD casters' options" if several of them don't want of the one option he's talked about up until now? So I want to know if there'll be other ArPen sources, as it doesn't seem bruta will build into a 3rd item.
Edit: yeah, basically what Yango said, peppered with my inability to be concise.
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Unless the values of armor items become a LOT cheaper, it will be more effective to stack health than armor now. inb4 Atma's is back.
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On November 08 2012 08:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Unless the values of armor items become a LOT cheaper, it will be more effective to stack health than armor now. inb4 Atma's is back.
That's probably why they're gonna remove FoN
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On November 08 2012 08:04 TheYango wrote:
Yeah the new BC at first glance for me seems better for AD carries than for AD casters. Consider DoT spells that will multi-proc the effect:
- Corki's E (flat and % shred in an AoE--this is going to be bonkers)
- Draven (passive procs continually refresh and reapply the shred)
- Sivir (Q and W spread the debuff liberally across the entire enemy team)
- Twitch (Ult to BC everyone, then use a mega-Expunge to use the shred)
- Urgot's E (DoT refreshes and reapplies the shred, while also adding it's own % shred)
The idea that this item will help AD casters more than AD carries is laughable, because far more AD carries have spells that synergize with it--not to mention it effectively solved the question for AD carries of "why not get Bruta?" because now it has an endgame build path.
Keep in mind that the new BC shreds less armor than old BC until your target has 140 (180 if you don't count the flat pen) armor and it takes 5 stacks to max instead of 3 while providing less AD and no attack speed. Last whisper is also still in the game and will provide more penetration against tanks to you as an AD carry than new BC with no need to stack a debuff.
Corki and Urgot, sure, maybe.
Sivir would probably rather have a last whisper.
Twitch can literally do that same thing RIGHT NOW with current BC.
Draven's DoT is completely covered by current BC's debuff duration, he has no need for a longer debuff.
Reducing the entire enemy team's armor sounds great but not when you're the AD carry who has the opportunity to buy ridiculously large AD damage multipliers like IE/PD/LW/BT. You'd much rather the assassin/bruiser got it and supported you. There's no reason for the AD carry in particular to be holding such a thing.
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They said they would lower the values for early resistances items, actually. So yeah, HP far more cost-effective against physical damage-dealers using ArPen now.
Which, in a way, will make them more counterable I believe: for example I'd stack some armor (and sustain) against Olaf so I negate everything but his E, that I can sustain. But that would make me vulnerable to the magic damage-dealers from the enemy team. With the changes, if a situation akin to that one arose, I'd juste stack HP in case my opponent seems to gear toward ArPen, and then I'll be better defended against all threats in the enemy team.
I think I really won't like the early game now (Edit:) If anything, it seems like top lane will be even more snowbally since you won't be able to stack resistances and try to farm under tower anyway or stuff like that. I don't want my lane ruined just because of a single mistake that makes it even harder than now to come back.
Damn, that's the 4th time EUW goes "online" then back to "busy" less than 20s later, throwing everyone out. >.>
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United States47024 Posts
On November 08 2012 08:30 phyvo wrote:
Reducing the entire enemy team's armor sounds great but not when you're the AD carry who has the opportunity to buy ridiculously large AD damage multipliers like IE/PD/LW/BT. You'd much rather the assassin/bruiser got it and supported you. There's no reason for the AD carry in particular to be holding such a thing.
Other than the fact that an AD carry has the best chance of being able to practically finish it early (as melees typically have need for defensive itemization early), and it can enhance your early teamfight power?
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On November 08 2012 08:39 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:30 phyvo wrote:
Reducing the entire enemy team's armor sounds great but not when you're the AD carry who has the opportunity to buy ridiculously large AD damage multipliers like IE/PD/LW/BT. You'd much rather the assassin/bruiser got it and supported you. There's no reason for the AD carry in particular to be holding such a thing. Other than the fact that an AD carry has the best chance of being able to practically finish it early (as melees typically have need for defensive itemization early), and it can enhance your early teamfight power?
Wouldn't that set you, as the ADC, behind your opponent who doesn't go BC first (or ever)? You get BC and they go IE or something instead. You will get more damage against tanks, but they will be doing a lot more damage against squishies. Then late game comes around and they get a last whisper and now they are doing more damage to squishies and tanks than you are. Unless you need the other stats it gives, and most ADCs don't, it isn't even better than just going last whisper first.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 08 2012 08:50 TheSinisterRed wrote:
Wouldn't that set you, as the ADC, behind your opponent who doesn't go BC first (or ever)? You get BC and they go IE or something instead. You will get more damage against tanks, but they will be doing a lot more damage against squishies. Then late game comes around and they get a last whisper and now they are doing more damage to squishies and tanks than you are. Unless you need the other stats it gives, and most ADCs don't, it isn't even better than just going last whisper first.
See, the problem here is that you're more or less making the assumption of item parity--you assume that the enemy AD keeps the same rate of item development even though you're deliberately choosing items that are stronger earlier.
Going superior midgame items shouldn't allow the opposing AD to maintain item parity with you. Superior midgame items should translate into an item advantage. If they don't then your midgame item selection didn't pay off.
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On November 08 2012 08:31 Alaric wrote:
Damn, that's the 4th time EUW goes "online" then back to "busy" less than 20s later, throwing everyone out. >.>
Just play on EUNE in the meantime!
Everybody play on EUNE!
NE EU is best EU
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On November 08 2012 09:00 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:31 Alaric wrote:
Damn, that's the 4th time EUW goes "online" then back to "busy" less than 20s later, throwing everyone out. >.> Just play on EUNE in the meantime! Everybody play on EUNE! NE EU is best EU
When it comes to murdering English, nothing can beat EUNE.
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I'm sure I could do silly stuff on EUNE for fun and all, but since I've been trying to reach gold one way or the other, I'm not sure about getting level 30 then climbing to 1500 before EUW back up.
Well, I hope I wouldn't have that time. :<
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"I checked it till 1.60 " @HotshotGG
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i don't know anything about nidalee but i know that stanley made chalice on her popular, is there any similar justification for building chalice on gp top? more parleys and oranges?
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man, yesterday my win of the day was at 3am and i really wanted to get it at 1 today so that tomorrow it is at a reasonable time, guess i have to skip it for one day instead. stupid servers.
oh well, i hope we get some free ip for the last downtimes. The americans got ip just because LoL won some US rewards.
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On November 08 2012 08:39 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:30 phyvo wrote:
Reducing the entire enemy team's armor sounds great but not when you're the AD carry who has the opportunity to buy ridiculously large AD damage multipliers like IE/PD/LW/BT. You'd much rather the assassin/bruiser got it and supported you. There's no reason for the AD carry in particular to be holding such a thing. Other than the fact that an AD carry has the best chance of being able to practically finish it early (as melees typically have need for defensive itemization early), and it can enhance your early teamfight power?
Why would you want to finish it early? % reduction is terrible early. It's worse early than current BC in every way except in massive AoE situations (like MF + Talon), and no one even builds current BC. It's not an early game item any more than LW. Just because it can affect the whole enemy team does not mean it is powerful early game.
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As an AD Carry is there any way to help your team stop hemorrhaging kills without completely losing your lane/letting the enemy AD freefarm?
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On November 08 2012 09:20 VirgilSC2 wrote:
As an AD Carry is there any way to help your team stop hemorrhaging kills without completely losing your lane/letting the enemy AD freefarm?
Don't think so.. Unless you take your turret early or something, roaming in order to help them is generally a bad idea as it can either set you back or let the enemy lane catch back up.
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EPT
