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qtiehunter
1088 Posts
On October 21 2012 13:11 VirgilSC2 wrote: Losing lane to smurfs is the dumbest thing in the world. I feel like winning lane to smurfs then lose the game anyways because all your teammates manage to feed him nonstop is dumber. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blackfire_Torch Put that sucker on Ryze with a full combo, game over. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 21 2012 13:34 ticklishmusic wrote: So, Riot thought it would be a good idea to put pre-nerf DFG back into the game (for TT). http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blackfire_Torch Put that sucker on Ryze with a full combo, game over. I would assume that the debuff doesn't stack (or at least, the item would be REALLY freaking stupid if it did). To get equivalent % damage to pre-nerf DFG, you need to have the debuff ticking on the target for 15 seconds, which is a pretty damn long time in a fight, and that's assuming a 0-AP DFG active. Rotating a combo quickly is actually meaningless for that item. The item is geared toward repeatedly hitting spells over a long period of time. The real question is how does the debuff interacts with damage over time spells or persistent area spells (e.g. Morgana's Tormented Soil). Or how does the single-target version of the debuff interact with the AoE version of the debuff? | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On October 21 2012 13:34 ticklishmusic wrote: So, Riot thought it would be a good idea to put pre-nerf DFG back into the game (for TT). http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blackfire_Torch Put that sucker on Ryze with a full combo, game over. Well it's a dot so it probably only refreshes like brand's passive. Edit: yeah it does only refresh. And don't forget Madreds BR can add 4% max health on autos, you can easily reach 2 attacks per second yet no one calls MBR OP. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30382219 Morello's reasoning for removing half of dfg's base damage doesn't make sense. Something isn't toxic if burst casters get it. It's toxic if there's no workarounds and it makes the gaming experience suck. Champions like AP nunu, AP yi, AP sion, Teemo, Yorick all make playing the game during laning phase unfun. They're more toxic at my level than DFG. There are still plenty of items built more than DFG. Deathcap for example. AD carries always build IE. Supports always build aegis. Phage is common on bruisers and junglers. GP10 is common in the current meta. Yet we don't see riot cutting IE's passive in half and removing 20 damage from it. Finally, AP mids are meant to be bursty. Try playing AP teemo or AP kayle. Have them hit the dragon and record your time needed to kill it. Then try it again with cass or ryze. Kayle and teemo probably down it so much faster. | ||
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Eladir
Greece467 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On October 21 2012 13:44 obesechicken13 wrote: Well it's a dot so it probably only refreshes like brand's passive. Edit: yeah it does only refresh. And don't forget Madreds BR can add 4% max health on autos, you can easily reach 2 attacks per second yet no one calls MBR OP. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30382219 Morello's reasoning for removing half of dfg's base damage doesn't make sense. Something isn't toxic if burst casters get it. It's toxic if there's no workarounds and it makes the gaming experience suck. Champions like AP nunu, AP yi, AP sion, Teemo, Yorick all make playing the game during laning phase unfun. They're more toxic at my level than DFG. There are still plenty of items built more than DFG. Deathcap for example. AD carries always build IE. Supports always build aegis. Phage is common on bruisers and junglers. GP10 is common in the current meta. Yet we don't see riot cutting IE's passive in half and removing 20 damage from it. Finally, AP mids are meant to be bursty. Try playing AP teemo or AP kayle. Have them hit the dragon and record your time needed to kill it. Then try it again with cass or ryze. Kayle and teemo probably down it so much faster. Pretty darn sure Cass can kill dragon faster than Kayle/teemo if she has blue buff. Cassiopeia is like a single-target version of Karthus in terms of sustained dps. DFG is toxic because it gives every single AP champion in the game a fifth skill. The problem with DFG is that it forces Riot to balance AP champions around that item in addition to AP ratios, etc... In contrast, AD carries are conceptualized around IE/BT and the whole AD multiplicative scaling shebang. It's not so much about champions building a particular item too much, it's more about that item being really really hard to balance. Either DFG is strong for all AP champs, or it's not strong for any AP champ. If it's the former, then champs that are already strong w/out it get even stronger. If it's the latter, then champs that "need" DFG like LB and Veigar get really weak if DFG is really weak. Honestly, Riot's better off just removing that item and rebalancing champions that need DFG as a core. | ||
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
On October 21 2012 12:15 JerKy wrote: hmm interesting i'll ask l1nk about that, thanks for that~ Well whadya know, speak of the devil, WildTurtle is now on orbit as ADC | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On October 21 2012 13:57 Ryuu314 wrote: Pretty darn sure Cass can kill dragon faster than Kayle/teemo if she has blue buff. Cassiopeia is like a single-target version of Karthus in terms of sustained dps. DFG is toxic because it gives every single AP champion in the game a fifth skill. The problem with DFG is that it forces Riot to balance AP champions around that item in addition to AP ratios, etc... In contrast, AD carries are conceptualized around IE/BT and the whole AD multiplicative scaling shebang. It's not so much about champions building a particular item too much, it's more about that item being really really hard to balance. Either DFG is strong for all AP champs, or it's not strong for any AP champ. If it's the former, then champs that are already strong w/out it get even stronger. If it's the latter, then champs that "need" DFG like LB and Veigar get really weak if DFG is really weak. Honestly, Riot's better off just removing that item and rebalancing champions that need DFG as a core. They won't buff leblanc or veigar to compensate for the weakness of DFG. That's considered too toxic because then LB and veigar would have a much easier time gibbing things when fed. There are plenty of items that add on a 5th ability. gunblade, randuins, ghostblade, and shurelias all come to mind. Balancing bruisers obviously gets harder the more bruiser items there are but that's no reason to nerf an item that much. | ||
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
On October 21 2012 14:10 obesechicken13 wrote: There are plenty of items that add on a 5th ability. gunblade, randuins, ghostblade, and shurelias all come to mind. Balancing bruisers obviously gets harder the more bruiser items there are but that's no reason to nerf an item that much. Those aren't nukes though. They are mostly used for their status effects and not for their damage. The DFG active is essentially like an ult. If any of those actives that you mentioned were anything near ult-tier, they might get changed. Adding a non-ult 5th ability doesn't need to get balanced, whereas DFG does. | ||
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Wetty
Australia419 Posts
On October 21 2012 14:20 beefhamburger wrote: Those aren't nukes though. They are mostly used for their status effects and not for their damage. The DFG active is essentially like an ult. If any of those actives that you mentioned were anything near ult-tier, they might get changed. Adding a non-ult 5th ability doesn't need to get balanced, whereas DFG does. Its mostly the fact that it gives you an extra AP ratio. Clearly its base numbers are too high as is, but the fact that it THEN scales makes it very hard to balance, and as such even more toxic. Sadly the entire idea of the item is to try and make something that scales against bruisers into the late game, but clearly this isnt the way of going about it, because it will always just be stronger to use to burst a weaker target. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
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Wetty
Australia419 Posts
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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qtiehunter
1088 Posts
Does anyone know a good place other than solomid where I can find (many) good champion guides? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Craton
United States17278 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 21 2012 17:09 Craton wrote: DFG is dumb simply because of how easily it enables someone to be 100-0'd without skillful play by the user or the opportunity for counterplay by the target. You mean other than having someone there to countergank if you're showing yourself in a situation where you can be solo-killed? Exposing yourself on the map in a position where you can be solo-killed without repercussion is a misplay. The counterplay is to not make that mistake. This is true of ANY situation where you can be solo-killed, not just ones involving DFG. The same goes for in-fight positioning. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On October 21 2012 13:34 ticklishmusic wrote: So, Riot thought it would be a good idea to put pre-nerf DFG back into the game (for TT). http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Blackfire_Torch Put that sucker on Ryze with a full combo, game over. omg no way new favorite item when i play karthus | ||
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