|
On June 01 2012 03:12 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 03:04 Fuzzmosis wrote:On June 01 2012 02:56 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On June 01 2012 02:50 QuakerOats wrote:On June 01 2012 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Watching HSGG stream. O my god, he's the worst fucking jungler I've ever fucking seen. He goes up for a gank on bot lane, gets only 1 kill. but him and botlane die. And it's not like it was even a counter gank.
How is this guy still on a pro team ??? >.>, so baddy. I've seen him do some dumb stuff but if you look at his match history he's won 9 of his past 10 games, and the only game he lost was the only game he didn't jungle. Of course, this is solo queue, but I'd say he's doing pretty well now. He literally gets carried by his lanes. There is a reason why he's a non factor in solo queue and wins, but in 5's he's a nonfactor and gets fucking crushed. I've said before hotshot should make a new account and start jungling at 1200. He isn't learning anything when his team carries him, and he will literally never get better at jungling. He builds wrong, he levels his skills wrong, he literally does everything wrong, yet he still wins (in solo queue anyways). I don't get it. That implies at 2k+ elo, games are decided by 4 players only. So either Hotshot is amazingly lucky and almost always gets the team with 4 players who are greater than the sum of the 5 2k+ elo players... or he has an impact. Because what that implies is that at that ELO, most opposing junglers don't have an impact and HSGG is lucky, or HSGG is so lucky that he can't lose. I know junglers get blamed a lot, but to be logically told it's valueless? That's harsh. Solo queue wins is almost always determined by snowballing lane, and jungle don't make as big of an impact in those lanes as soon as they start the snowball.
So that would tell me that in Hotshot's case, he starts the snowball earlier than the other jungle, and is being effective and probably learning things. A 2-3 kill and 20 CS advantage can be stopped by good jungle intervention, but again, that's what was implied above. Hotshot is so lucky that his team is always so amazing and the other jungler is somehow always more valueless than Hotshot. He should really begin buying lottery tickets.
The way I view it when laning is, it's my responsibility to win no matter what's going on, and if I cannot win with what is going on, request help. I don't think he's a good jungler from observation, but the results are still there somehow. I don't get the hate.
|
On June 01 2012 03:21 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 03:17 Shiv. wrote:On June 01 2012 03:12 wei2coolman wrote:On June 01 2012 03:04 Fuzzmosis wrote:On June 01 2012 02:56 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On June 01 2012 02:50 QuakerOats wrote:On June 01 2012 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Watching HSGG stream. O my god, he's the worst fucking jungler I've ever fucking seen. He goes up for a gank on bot lane, gets only 1 kill. but him and botlane die. And it's not like it was even a counter gank.
How is this guy still on a pro team ??? >.>, so baddy. I've seen him do some dumb stuff but if you look at his match history he's won 9 of his past 10 games, and the only game he lost was the only game he didn't jungle. Of course, this is solo queue, but I'd say he's doing pretty well now. He literally gets carried by his lanes. There is a reason why he's a non factor in solo queue and wins, but in 5's he's a nonfactor and gets fucking crushed. I've said before hotshot should make a new account and start jungling at 1200. He isn't learning anything when his team carries him, and he will literally never get better at jungling. He builds wrong, he levels his skills wrong, he literally does everything wrong, yet he still wins (in solo queue anyways). I don't get it. That implies at 2k+ elo, games are decided by 4 players only. So either Hotshot is amazingly lucky and almost always gets the team with 4 players who are greater than the sum of the 5 2k+ elo players... or he has an impact. Because what that implies is that at that ELO, most opposing junglers don't have an impact and HSGG is lucky, or HSGG is so lucky that he can't lose. I know junglers get blamed a lot, but to be logically told it's valueless? That's harsh. Solo queue wins is almost always determined by snowballing lane, and jungle don't make as big of an impact in those lanes as soon as they start the snowball. Junglers play a huge role in starting said snowball effect. HotShot's been KSing everywhere he can to get himself fed to a point where it doesn't matter he can't farm for his life, he just reaches a certain point where his champion is about as strong as their top laner and he's able to 1v1 almost anyone on the map. At least that's what happened the two Nocturne games I have watched him play. but by ksing everywhere, is that he weakens is teammates lane phase. I think hsgg imo is the weakest pro-player jungler out of all the pro-teams. Even dan dinh was a better jungler, despite is "wtf are you building???" builds.
And then here's the "WTF?" from you. He wins because his lanes snowball, but his jungle methods prevent his lanes from snowballing. So he wins by doing the opposite of what he's doing to win.
|
On June 01 2012 03:21 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 03:17 Shiv. wrote:On June 01 2012 03:12 wei2coolman wrote:On June 01 2012 03:04 Fuzzmosis wrote:On June 01 2012 02:56 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On June 01 2012 02:50 QuakerOats wrote:On June 01 2012 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Watching HSGG stream. O my god, he's the worst fucking jungler I've ever fucking seen. He goes up for a gank on bot lane, gets only 1 kill. but him and botlane die. And it's not like it was even a counter gank.
How is this guy still on a pro team ??? >.>, so baddy. I've seen him do some dumb stuff but if you look at his match history he's won 9 of his past 10 games, and the only game he lost was the only game he didn't jungle. Of course, this is solo queue, but I'd say he's doing pretty well now. He literally gets carried by his lanes. There is a reason why he's a non factor in solo queue and wins, but in 5's he's a nonfactor and gets fucking crushed. I've said before hotshot should make a new account and start jungling at 1200. He isn't learning anything when his team carries him, and he will literally never get better at jungling. He builds wrong, he levels his skills wrong, he literally does everything wrong, yet he still wins (in solo queue anyways). I don't get it. That implies at 2k+ elo, games are decided by 4 players only. So either Hotshot is amazingly lucky and almost always gets the team with 4 players who are greater than the sum of the 5 2k+ elo players... or he has an impact. Because what that implies is that at that ELO, most opposing junglers don't have an impact and HSGG is lucky, or HSGG is so lucky that he can't lose. I know junglers get blamed a lot, but to be logically told it's valueless? That's harsh. Solo queue wins is almost always determined by snowballing lane, and jungle don't make as big of an impact in those lanes as soon as they start the snowball. Junglers play a huge role in starting said snowball effect. HotShot's been KSing everywhere he can to get himself fed to a point where it doesn't matter he can't farm for his life, he just reaches a certain point where his champion is about as strong as their top laner and he's able to 1v1 almost anyone on the map. At least that's what happened the two Nocturne games I have watched him play. but by ksing everywhere, is that he weakens is teammates lane phase. I think hsgg imo is the weakest pro-player jungler out of all the pro-teams. Even dan dinh was a better jungler, despite is "wtf are you building???" builds.
He does not weaken them. Ganks aren't mainly good for the gold you get by killing them, they're great to gain an XP and CS advantage over the enemy laner. Also, even if it was about the killing gold, he wouldn't weaken his laners, he just doesn't get them as far as possibly ahead.
And of course he's the worst pro team jungler right now, the kid's been jungling for two weeks. I'm not a big fan of HotShot or CLG and actually dislike him and his attitude quite a bit (unlike yourself, if I remember your previous posts correctly), but you have to cut him some slack. How would he be on the level of OddOne and SV?
|
On June 01 2012 03:08 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 02:35 jacosajh wrote:On June 01 2012 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Watching HSGG stream. O my god, he's the worst fucking jungler I've ever fucking seen. He goes up for a gank on bot lane, gets only 1 kill. but him and botlane die. And it's not like it was even a counter gank.
How is this guy still on a pro team ??? >.>, so baddy. Saint said it best: "As it turns out, he owns CLG" But soon, CLG will fade into nothing so rest easy young one. I thought jiji owned CLG? and that hsgg was just manager/face of it? I don't want to see CLG go down though, especially if it means it'll drag down Chauster and Doublelift (my favorite botlane pair, though nhat and aphromoo are growing on me)
Doublelift has no brains and is a dick, has a terrible attitude. He can rot for all I care. Chauster/jiji wont have any problems finding a new team if clg does die.
|
I only like HSGG's nidalee on top, his champion pool is so ridiculously shitty. You could totally see him get banned out in almost every single tourney game when he played. SV was the sole reason HSGG looked somewhat okay with other champions on toplane, and guess what happened? CLG booted SV, Talk about shooting yourself in the knee cap. I don't even want HSGG on the level of TOO and SV, I just want him to play jungle at a decent capacity. Just watching his stream is painful. I also feel bad for DL, and Chau, to deal with this team switch.
Also totally jumping CLG ship. Team Dyanamic(was monomania), and TSM.evo are my new favorite teams.
|
On June 01 2012 03:38 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 03:08 wei2coolman wrote:On June 01 2012 02:35 jacosajh wrote:On June 01 2012 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Watching HSGG stream. O my god, he's the worst fucking jungler I've ever fucking seen. He goes up for a gank on bot lane, gets only 1 kill. but him and botlane die. And it's not like it was even a counter gank.
How is this guy still on a pro team ??? >.>, so baddy. Saint said it best: "As it turns out, he owns CLG" But soon, CLG will fade into nothing so rest easy young one. I thought jiji owned CLG? and that hsgg was just manager/face of it? I don't want to see CLG go down though, especially if it means it'll drag down Chauster and Doublelift (my favorite botlane pair, though nhat and aphromoo are growing on me) Doublelift has no brains and is a dick, has a terrible attitude. He can rot for all I care. Chauster/jiji wont have any problems finding a new team if clg does die.
Ever since IEM (kiev i think?) Doublelift and Chau haven't been the root reason for CLG losing games. If you look at a lot of recent CLG losses, they mostly come from HSGG feeding the living shit out of top, or HSGG getting caught splitpushing. the % of losts caused by DL and Chau is pretty limited (recently)
And I don't think anyone disagrees with the sentiment DL has the best laning phase of any AD carry in the pro-scene.
|
it's pointless to say any AD player by himself has the best/worst laning phase.
|
On June 01 2012 03:25 Fuzzmosis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 03:12 wei2coolman wrote:On June 01 2012 03:04 Fuzzmosis wrote:On June 01 2012 02:56 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On June 01 2012 02:50 QuakerOats wrote:On June 01 2012 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Watching HSGG stream. O my god, he's the worst fucking jungler I've ever fucking seen. He goes up for a gank on bot lane, gets only 1 kill. but him and botlane die. And it's not like it was even a counter gank.
How is this guy still on a pro team ??? >.>, so baddy. I've seen him do some dumb stuff but if you look at his match history he's won 9 of his past 10 games, and the only game he lost was the only game he didn't jungle. Of course, this is solo queue, but I'd say he's doing pretty well now. He literally gets carried by his lanes. There is a reason why he's a non factor in solo queue and wins, but in 5's he's a nonfactor and gets fucking crushed. I've said before hotshot should make a new account and start jungling at 1200. He isn't learning anything when his team carries him, and he will literally never get better at jungling. He builds wrong, he levels his skills wrong, he literally does everything wrong, yet he still wins (in solo queue anyways). I don't get it. That implies at 2k+ elo, games are decided by 4 players only. So either Hotshot is amazingly lucky and almost always gets the team with 4 players who are greater than the sum of the 5 2k+ elo players... or he has an impact. Because what that implies is that at that ELO, most opposing junglers don't have an impact and HSGG is lucky, or HSGG is so lucky that he can't lose. I know junglers get blamed a lot, but to be logically told it's valueless? That's harsh. Solo queue wins is almost always determined by snowballing lane, and jungle don't make as big of an impact in those lanes as soon as they start the snowball. So that would tell me that in Hotshot's case, he starts the snowball earlier than the other jungle, and is being effective and probably learning things. A 2-3 kill and 20 CS advantage can be stopped by good jungle intervention, but again, that's what was implied above. Hotshot is so lucky that his team is always so amazing and the other jungler is somehow always more valueless than Hotshot. He should really begin buying lottery tickets. The way I view it when laning is, it's my responsibility to win no matter what's going on, and if I cannot win with what is going on, request help. I don't think he's a good jungler from observation, but the results are still there somehow. I don't get the hate.
Lottery ticket outcomes have 0 do to with LoL solo q.
Hotshot just plays really poorly for a pro player. He's always been known mainly for his mechanics - his cs ability and his clutch plays, mainly lategame teamfighting (he has good laning with the champs he are good at, but had a small champ pool). Jungle is more about early to midgame control and does not revolve around your cs ability, so literally it's the exact opposite of what he's good at.
At the end of the day he is underfarmed, levels his skills wrong in most cases, has bad builds out of the jungle, does weird routes that make no sense to be "unpredictable," and doesn't provide the impact a good jungler would. His ability to make plays lategame still allows him to win games in a lot of cases I've seen on his stream, or he snowballs someone like voyboy by camping his lane, so even if he does 0 in a teamfight, that snowballed lane could 1v3 without trouble, so it partly makes up for it. And he just refuses to learn how to properly do any of this which was figured out after years of jungling by some of the top junglers.
Unlike most jungles who clear their jungle then gank, which is the better thing to do, he will camp a lane HARD, such as sit in a bush for a good 2 mins, or walk into lane and just try to zone the enemy laner for a minute or so while his laner farms. It's just not a good way to play. The laner losses some, but i the enemy jungler was good you'd lose your whole jungle and he'd be equal level to solo lanes. You see his faults a lot in competitive games, where he'll try to counterjungle after sitting in a bush for over a minute, so now he's underleveled and straight up dies in the enemy jungle. =/
Being able to win 9 solo q games in a row is NOT an argument for his jungling and you're kidding yourself if you use that argument. You need to analyze what he does and what's right/wrong. And basically hotshot has done everything wrong that pertains to jungling. That doesn't take away from his clutch play making he can do lategame and his general game knowledge as a whole of what to do when lategame.
|
|
|
On June 01 2012 03:40 wei2coolman wrote:
I only like HSGG's nidalee on top, his champion pool is so ridiculously shitty. You could totally see him get banned out in almost every single tourney game when he played. SV was the sole reason HSGG looked somewhat okay with other champions on toplane, and guess what happened? CLG booted SV, Talk about shooting yourself in the knee cap. I don't even want HSGG on the level of TOO and SV, I just want him to play jungle at a decent capacity. Just watching his stream is painful. I also feel bad for DL, and Chau, to deal with this team switch.
Also totally jumping CLG ship. Team Dyanamic(was monomania), and TSM.evo are my new favorite teams.
You obviously haven't seen his galio and cho'gath. They're fucking boss, he's like the best at those 2 champions among any i can think of (ok 5hitcombo you're awesome too). Also you can't seem to understand that he CANNOT be lucky. It's simply not possible over so many games to have 4 people that are better than 5 and have HSGG get carried. The times i've watched him play recently, he's actually doing good. Not SV/TOO/IWD or whatever jungler level, but he's certainly getting there. I'm not a HS fan boy, but really people just seem to flame him for nothing, when he's literally trying his best (again this is strictly from what i've seen lately on his stream+a few tourney games) and he's gonna be fine.
|
No, don't even bring up Hotshot's galio. His cho is good, his nidalee is good, not his galio.
|
On June 01 2012 04:00 0123456789 wrote:
No, don't even bring up Hotshot's galio. His cho is good, his nidalee is good, not his galio.
Don't know if he ever plays him now, but back when he used to play him alot, i only remember seeing him do well. Like back when he had his cho/galio/nida highlight, he could get out-picked to play a champion he wasn't fairly good with. His galio was good.
|
in dreamhack teams would ban 3 champs against CLG
hotshot would dominate with a fourth
i recall there was a cho/galio/nid ban against him
he played jax and destroyed
hotshot is definitely not an awful player
it's just that he's an awful jungler
|
Hotshot isn't lucking out. At his Elo it's just fairly normal for games to last into the mid-game at the least if not the late-game, and for all his faults as a jungler he still knows what to do past the laning phase.
|
On June 01 2012 04:05 gtrsrs wrote:
in dreamhack teams would ban 3 champs against CLG
hotshot would dominate with a fourth
i recall there was a cho/galio/nid ban against him
he played jax and destroyed
hotshot is definitely not an awful player
it's just that he's an awful jungler
This.
Honestly, gtr is probably a better jungler than hotshot. lol
|
On June 01 2012 03:54 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 03:25 Fuzzmosis wrote:On June 01 2012 03:12 wei2coolman wrote:On June 01 2012 03:04 Fuzzmosis wrote:On June 01 2012 02:56 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On June 01 2012 02:50 QuakerOats wrote:On June 01 2012 02:17 wei2coolman wrote:
Watching HSGG stream. O my god, he's the worst fucking jungler I've ever fucking seen. He goes up for a gank on bot lane, gets only 1 kill. but him and botlane die. And it's not like it was even a counter gank.
How is this guy still on a pro team ??? >.>, so baddy. I've seen him do some dumb stuff but if you look at his match history he's won 9 of his past 10 games, and the only game he lost was the only game he didn't jungle. Of course, this is solo queue, but I'd say he's doing pretty well now. He literally gets carried by his lanes. There is a reason why he's a non factor in solo queue and wins, but in 5's he's a nonfactor and gets fucking crushed. I've said before hotshot should make a new account and start jungling at 1200. He isn't learning anything when his team carries him, and he will literally never get better at jungling. He builds wrong, he levels his skills wrong, he literally does everything wrong, yet he still wins (in solo queue anyways). I don't get it. That implies at 2k+ elo, games are decided by 4 players only. So either Hotshot is amazingly lucky and almost always gets the team with 4 players who are greater than the sum of the 5 2k+ elo players... or he has an impact. Because what that implies is that at that ELO, most opposing junglers don't have an impact and HSGG is lucky, or HSGG is so lucky that he can't lose. I know junglers get blamed a lot, but to be logically told it's valueless? That's harsh. Solo queue wins is almost always determined by snowballing lane, and jungle don't make as big of an impact in those lanes as soon as they start the snowball. So that would tell me that in Hotshot's case, he starts the snowball earlier than the other jungle, and is being effective and probably learning things. A 2-3 kill and 20 CS advantage can be stopped by good jungle intervention, but again, that's what was implied above. Hotshot is so lucky that his team is always so amazing and the other jungler is somehow always more valueless than Hotshot. He should really begin buying lottery tickets. The way I view it when laning is, it's my responsibility to win no matter what's going on, and if I cannot win with what is going on, request help. I don't think he's a good jungler from observation, but the results are still there somehow. I don't get the hate. Lottery ticket outcomes have 0 do to with LoL solo q. Hotshot just plays really poorly for a pro player. He's always been known mainly for his mechanics - his cs ability and his clutch plays, mainly lategame teamfighting (he has good laning with the champs he are good at, but had a small champ pool). Jungle is more about early to midgame control and does not revolve around your cs ability, so literally it's the exact opposite of what he's good at. At the end of the day he is underfarmed, levels his skills wrong in most cases, has bad builds out of the jungle, does weird routes that make no sense to be "unpredictable," and doesn't provide the impact a good jungler would. His ability to make plays lategame still allows him to win games in a lot of cases I've seen on his stream, or he snowballs someone like voyboy by camping his lane, so even if he does 0 in a teamfight, that snowballed lane could 1v3 without trouble, so it partly makes up for it. And he just refuses to learn how to properly do any of this which was figured out after years of jungling by some of the top junglers. Unlike most jungles who clear their jungle then gank, which is the better thing to do, he will camp a lane HARD, such as sit in a bush for a good 2 mins, or walk into lane and just try to zone the enemy laner for a minute or so while his laner farms. It's just not a good way to play. The laner losses some, but i the enemy jungler was good you'd lose your whole jungle and he'd be equal level to solo lanes. You see his faults a lot in competitive games, where he'll try to counterjungle after sitting in a bush for over a minute, so now he's underleveled and straight up dies in the enemy jungle. =/ Being able to win 9 solo q games in a row is NOT an argument for his jungling and you're kidding yourself if you use that argument. You need to analyze what he does and what's right/wrong. And basically hotshot has done everything wrong that pertains to jungling. That doesn't take away from his clutch play making he can do lategame and his general game knowledge as a whole of what to do when lategame.
I don't doubt their tournament play is hurting and probably going to hurt for a long time. Hell, it may even end CLG as a viable team.
I do doubt that going to 1200 elo would help him. In fact, that would probably do nothing.
I do question how if Midgame is most important for jungler, and if hotshot is a lategame player, how that seems to end up winning games. Again, this is more shitting on his opposing junglers who probably know these things you're claiming and are acting on them. Apparently, it doesn't matter that they are far better midgame, so then is midgame really that important?
Are his opponent junglers at 2300 still jokes, even when some of them are on teams?
This is what confuses me about this. He's succeeding against experienced junglers, and getting shit on for it. It is not working in a tournament setting yet, but going backwards sure as shit isn't going to do anything about that.
|
On June 01 2012 02:47 Sabin010 wrote:
I apologize for my language, but lets look at this from a third person's perspective. I see person a, say in all chat, fucking (insert racist/homophobic adjective) noob twitch gg, please report. Then I see person B goes, hey fuck you buddy go fuck off. I see no reason why either one of those people shouldn't be punished.
Like where I live in America, if some one pushes me, and I hit him in the face and knock his teeth out. I end up going to jail.
I don't see any reason they should be reported. Someone can call me retarded kid as much as they want. I am not offended by that
|
is HSGG as good as all the other 2200+jungler that aren't pro players? yes.
Is he as good as the pro-player junglers? no.
It's pretty simple
|
On June 01 2012 04:48 epoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 02:47 Sabin010 wrote:
I apologize for my language, but lets look at this from a third person's perspective. I see person a, say in all chat, fucking (insert racist/homophobic adjective) noob twitch gg, please report. Then I see person B goes, hey fuck you buddy go fuck off. I see no reason why either one of those people shouldn't be punished.
Like where I live in America, if some one pushes me, and I hit him in the face and knock his teeth out. I end up going to jail. I don't see any reason they should be reported. Someone can call me retarded kid as much as they want. I am not offended by that
Using offensive language is a reportable offense. Are you seriously confused at how someone can be reported for a reportable offense?
|
On June 01 2012 04:08 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:05 gtrsrs wrote:
in dreamhack teams would ban 3 champs against CLG
hotshot would dominate with a fourth
i recall there was a cho/galio/nid ban against him
he played jax and destroyed
hotshot is definitely not an awful player
it's just that he's an awful jungler This. Honestly, gtr is probably a better jungler than hotshot. lol
call me when guitar gets plat.
^_^_^_^_^
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
