[Patch 1.0.0.127: Graves] General Discussion - Page 148

On October 30 2011 06:32 STS17 wrote:


It's simple really, he's not counting any of the aspects of her that disprove his point

in all honesty, her not having CC or hard escape isn't really what's holding her back imo. A good number of ranged ADs dont have any good CC and her spell shield is fine as a pseudo-escape.

The biggest issue is that her laning is easily countered in a duo lane and because of her short range she has to build more survivability than most range AD carries, which eats into her offensive capabilities.

On October 30 2011 07:38 Logrus wrote:
@Ryuu314: I wanted to respond to this, to beat the horse some more. I don't think I was specific enough in my first post. Other AD's don't just have range, steroids, escapes, or cc, they have combinations of them. Trist has range escape and steroid, Cait sick sick range and escape, Kog even sicker range, no escape, but a steroid and a slow, etc.

Sivir has NONE of these things. Her spell shield is like you said a "pseudo-escape" but it's "pseudo" only, and I did mention it and say it was "very very good." All of which I think carries into and proves what you were saying with your second point. In bot lane she has no range and no escape and doesn't even get free attack speed or dmg or anything, ERGO its easy to counter her and you'd have to build more defensively.

edit: Ricochet is interesting and similar in some ways to a traditional steroid but I see it falling more into the 'range' camp of problems in that sure if you're hitting their tank it'll bounce to their team but you still have to go stand right under that enemy Cho's nuts to hit him anyway and then you're in range of their whole team and all their cc so good luck getting off more than 2x autos before u get knocked up silenced and eaten.

On October 30 2011 08:51 TheYango wrote:

Logrus, you're missing the fact that Sivir used to be bar-none the strongest AD carry in the game. Her issues have nothing to do with her kit, because she was previously at a point where she was good. She's just another classic case where Riot overnerfed her.

On October 30 2011 08:36 Cirn9 wrote:
Sivir 5 tiamats is beastly

On October 30 2011 07:38 Logrus wrote:


Hey I really like how you're contributing to positive discussion instead of veiled insults that I'm stupid and use logical fallacies. Now YOU get to make a sarcastic reply to ME that you like my veiled sarcasm and that I'm no better than you for responding to your bullshit and lowering myself to your level but I would then counter with NYA NYA NYA YOU STARTED IT WHICH MAKES YOU THE DICK

Anyway, the way I reasoned it, to reply to everyone else, was specifically as a foil against the other AD carries and not in a vaccuum, in that Sivir's ult steroid (YES SHE HAS ONE, ITS OKAY RELAX) is on a much longer cooldown compared to something like Trist or Graves, or even something that gives permanent stats, like Kog.

On October 30 2011 04:40 Two_DoWn wrote:

What do you mean he doesnt fill a role? Again- Vlad is probably in the top 3 for late game 1v1s. His ult INCREASES THE DAMAGE DONE TO ENEMIES HIT. Even if it didnt do damage, this would be one of the most useful ults in the game. And he naturally gets to be a tanky mofo.

And again, you keep saying that you get default zoned by everyone, without actually giving any examples of champions doing this, or that those champions who can are capable of somehow zoning vlad harder than any other ap carry.

And if you feel vlad falls off late game, I'm sorry, but you are fucking terrible. A fed vlad is one of the most terrifying ap carries you can have because of the consistency of his damage, his innate tankiness, and lifesteal.


@ Yango-
Id rather have a less fed vlad over any one of the champs you listed because of his ult. Even if I'm not farmed, my ult is going to still be incredibly powerful. No farm zil? Autoloss. No farm morg gets blown up before the second tick of her ult. No farm annie is useful as a stunbot, but thats about it.

On October 30 2011 10:02 Juicyfruit wrote:
To be fair, Vlad really is one of the best 1v1 late-game AP carries. The thing is, AP carries as a class are just so-so late-game (with the possible exception of veigar). Their utility is more important at that point.

On October 30 2011 08:51 TheYango wrote:

Logrus, you're missing the fact that Sivir used to be bar-none the strongest AD carry in the game. Her issues have nothing to do with her kit, because she was previously at a point where she was good. She's just another classic case where Riot overnerfed her.

On October 30 2011 09:16 STS17 wrote:
At no point in time did I say (or even imply) that you were stupid. I made a joke and you blew it way out of proportion.

On October 30 2011 08:59 TL Blazeraid wrote:


Or there was a very large shift in the meta. Sivir is still fantastic against a tanky dps team.