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On September 16 2011 00:09 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 23:49 Requizen wrote:On September 15 2011 23:35 Juicyfruit wrote:On September 15 2011 23:28 Requizen wrote:
I'm starting to think that Wriggles is a good early item for Riven. I usually don't get it on a lot of characters, but her big problem early game is getting in/out of range to farm, since she doesn't have a poke or anything like that. Once you level up E a bunch, it becomes a lot easier.
I'm starting to hold off getting my first ability until I see who I'm laning against. If I feel safe, I'll start Q to farm (because it farms so well with dat AoE), but against ranged or someone like Talon who dominates early game, I feel that E is so much more useful.
Honestly though, as far as fighters go, she's, like, high middle of the road. Better than middling fighters like Garen, but not as good as Lee Sin or Irelia, both of whom are just so strong. She feels about Renekton's level, maybe a bit higher. A viable pick if you're determined to make her work. She actually feels pretty good with a support as well. Don't level up E first, l0l. You pretty much always want to take Q at level 1 since you can harass pretty well with it, and then max W first (the AoE stun thing). Whether you take E second or Q second depends on what item pathing you go. If you went warmogs, you need to level up Q second or your damage will be wet noodles. If you went bloodthister second you need to get that E leveled up. But yeah.. for me right now it's wriggels -> atmogs -> last whisper. Works the best. Problem overall for me is that if I want someone to whore top lane for 20 minutes I'd rather take Jax, but I guess Riven is less likely to get shut down in lane. Honestly, I don't level Q until last no matter what. The only thing leveling Q does is increase the base damage, which isn't that great to begin with. It scales with AD the same at all levels. Leveling W and E is way better, but I feel E is more versatile. To note, both give 1 second CDR with each level they get. W gives you more straight damage, yes. It helps secure kills and clear mobs stupidly fast. However, E gives more shield (increasing your survivability by a LOT), and the dash is way more useful than the stun or AoE. You can use it to get in to fights, out of them, chase or run. The shield can even tank a turret shot or two if you tower dive. You can't really harass with Q (or at all) against some characters. A poster above said Talon destroys her, which is true. He has about your toughness in the beginning, plus an AoE poke with rake that also slows, so you never even get close to being able to fight him at 1. Only squishier chars without escapes make good targets for your Q. Also, I need to start using her R every single fight it's up. That 20% AD is so massive, and if you can land the Wave it secures kills like a boss. Wait, Talon can beat Riven at level 1? I feel like that's impossible. Talon might eventually be a pushing asshole but Riven's level 1 is VERY strong and Talon's level 1 is VERY weak.
Maybe not beat, but it's very iffy. You're never really safe to engage him, he'll just rake and run away. Maybe if you jump him with Q at the right time, you can fight at 1, but after that he gets stronger without items faster. Silence is also pretty detrimental.
But yeah, you're right, at level 1 it's probably in Riven's favor, I'm always just too cautious at low levels :\
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On September 16 2011 00:11 Requizen wrote:
As a side note, I also tried out Singed last night while a friend played Riven. I kept dying, then I realized that you're just supposed to run around like a dumbass and throw people rather than fighting straight up. Pretty fun just steaming along like a derp train and wrecking people's health.
That's exactly what we should explain to the guy who played Singed in the Riven Champion Spotlight.
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On September 16 2011 00:10 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2011 23:42 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 15 2011 23:39 Juicyfruit wrote:
I can't check but from the sound of it:
3 MS quints
9 Mpen red
9 AP/level yellows
7 AP/level blues
2 mpen blues
2 mpen blue is for exactly 30 mpen with sorc boots, which is everybody's base magic resistance. Huh. That actually kinda sounds like the caster page I was starting to think about creating. Ms quints and such. I guess there is a reason jiji is better than me. He's about a month ahead of when I would have come up with that page. Aside from AP/lvl yellows, (And the mpen blues?) that's my Cass page. And I've been levelling up E 1st since I got her. Wave > jiji? You decide.
I leveled q cuz odds told me to.
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On September 16 2011 00:14 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 00:09 Juicyfruit wrote:On September 15 2011 23:49 Requizen wrote:On September 15 2011 23:35 Juicyfruit wrote:On September 15 2011 23:28 Requizen wrote:
I'm starting to think that Wriggles is a good early item for Riven. I usually don't get it on a lot of characters, but her big problem early game is getting in/out of range to farm, since she doesn't have a poke or anything like that. Once you level up E a bunch, it becomes a lot easier.
I'm starting to hold off getting my first ability until I see who I'm laning against. If I feel safe, I'll start Q to farm (because it farms so well with dat AoE), but against ranged or someone like Talon who dominates early game, I feel that E is so much more useful.
Honestly though, as far as fighters go, she's, like, high middle of the road. Better than middling fighters like Garen, but not as good as Lee Sin or Irelia, both of whom are just so strong. She feels about Renekton's level, maybe a bit higher. A viable pick if you're determined to make her work. She actually feels pretty good with a support as well. Don't level up E first, l0l. You pretty much always want to take Q at level 1 since you can harass pretty well with it, and then max W first (the AoE stun thing). Whether you take E second or Q second depends on what item pathing you go. If you went warmogs, you need to level up Q second or your damage will be wet noodles. If you went bloodthister second you need to get that E leveled up. But yeah.. for me right now it's wriggels -> atmogs -> last whisper. Works the best. Problem overall for me is that if I want someone to whore top lane for 20 minutes I'd rather take Jax, but I guess Riven is less likely to get shut down in lane. Honestly, I don't level Q until last no matter what. The only thing leveling Q does is increase the base damage, which isn't that great to begin with. It scales with AD the same at all levels. Leveling W and E is way better, but I feel E is more versatile. To note, both give 1 second CDR with each level they get. W gives you more straight damage, yes. It helps secure kills and clear mobs stupidly fast. However, E gives more shield (increasing your survivability by a LOT), and the dash is way more useful than the stun or AoE. You can use it to get in to fights, out of them, chase or run. The shield can even tank a turret shot or two if you tower dive. You can't really harass with Q (or at all) against some characters. A poster above said Talon destroys her, which is true. He has about your toughness in the beginning, plus an AoE poke with rake that also slows, so you never even get close to being able to fight him at 1. Only squishier chars without escapes make good targets for your Q. Also, I need to start using her R every single fight it's up. That 20% AD is so massive, and if you can land the Wave it secures kills like a boss. Wait, Talon can beat Riven at level 1? I feel like that's impossible. Talon might eventually be a pushing asshole but Riven's level 1 is VERY strong and Talon's level 1 is VERY weak. Maybe not beat, but it's very iffy. You're never really safe to engage him, he'll just rake and run away. Maybe if you jump him with Q at the right time, you can fight at 1, but after that he gets stronger without items faster. Silence is also pretty detrimental. But yeah, you're right, at level 1 it's probably in Riven's favor, I'm always just too cautious at low levels :\
Pretty much just start cloth + 5 pots, build up an advantage at level 1 and use that to ride your way to wriggles and maxed W. After that just farm like crazy until you get what you need.
Riven's power curve is such that she has a TERRIBLE mid-game because she's completely and utterly worthless in the face of burst cc, so if you don't want to lose the game right there you need to constantly apply lane pressure so that the enemy team can't get all the objectives in peace while keeping the flow of the game away from major teamfights.
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In other words, go 0-4 in lane, lose the game, then say you know how to play the champ. :D
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On September 16 2011 00:30 BlackPaladin wrote:
In other words, go 0-4 in lane, lose the game, then say you know how to play the champ. :D
Nob that was my very first game as Riven that I lost my lane. After that I won lane every single time (and lost all of those games because huehueu I suck).
Hell I DC`d one game at the start and won my lane against a mirror Riven who had 4 level advantage and 40 cs over me when I came back trololo.
So far my impression is that:
- Pure-AD Glass cannon too easy to blow up, and doesn`t have the necessary cc or burst speed NOR RANGE to actually do all her damage before being blown up.
- Atmogs cost-effective and makes her strong, but kicks in so late that you might as well be playing Jax. Still, it`s the best build to go if you can get yourself into a stalemate top.
Something I`m considering that I have not tried:
- ghostblade + brutalizer, then EHP tank items (chain vest negatrons and shit). Relying on short-CD E to survive. Riven doesn`t particularly need perpetual attack speed, but burst attack speed is useful because she builds up so many charges for her passive.
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It's better when you DC like 5 times and end up getting 50 cs behind on the Riven mirror top.
Only cause Lee Sin is OP ^^
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On September 16 2011 00:44 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
It's better when you DC like 5 times and end up getting 50 cs behind on the Riven mirror top.
Only cause Lee Sin is OP ^^
I killed that riven 1v1 and then 2v2 though heuhuehue.
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fucking Lee Sin man, fuck
also, Slayer, you're right in my thread, but I really hate that fucker.
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I don't think you need "tanky" items per say, but something like Hexdrinker or FMallet might be ok situationally. I still say AD + E shield is enough survival to keep you going.
Edit:
Bloodrazor viable? The armor would add to survival, and the passive might make some insane burst while weaving autos.
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It is not, it is really really not, lol.
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Does Cutlass build into anything besides gunblade? If not, it should build into something like Cutlass+Kindlegem+300 Gold= lifesteal health cdr ad goodness, with the active.
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I wouldn't call a tower dive a 1v1 fight, but whatever makes you feel good.
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best defense is a good offense, MIRITE!?
anyway, I'd just like to say fuck you to the top 25 who stretched this soft reset all the way up to 2500+ because now there's no distinction between fake plat and fake gold in terms of elo bracket and as such, games are going to be completely fucked for like, 2-3 weeks before elos get back in line with what they should be. Uhg, so damn frustrating.
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On September 16 2011 00:52 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I wouldn't call a tower a dive a 1v1 fight, but whatever makes you feel good.
Fine, I'm noob then.
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On September 16 2011 00:53 Mogwai wrote:
best defense is a good offense, MIRITE!?
anyway, I'd just like to say fuck you to the top 25 who stretched this soft reset all the way up to 2500+ because now there's no distinction between fake plat and fake gold in terms of elo bracket and as such, games are going to be completely fucked for like, 2-3 weeks before elos get back in line with what they should be. Uhg, so damn frustrating.
You just jelly you lost with Lee Win and your good buddy Two_DoWn has won every ranked game he has played.
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On September 16 2011 00:22 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 00:10 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 15 2011 23:42 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 15 2011 23:39 Juicyfruit wrote:
I can't check but from the sound of it:
3 MS quints
9 Mpen red
9 AP/level yellows
7 AP/level blues
2 mpen blues
2 mpen blue is for exactly 30 mpen with sorc boots, which is everybody's base magic resistance. Huh. That actually kinda sounds like the caster page I was starting to think about creating. Ms quints and such. I guess there is a reason jiji is better than me. He's about a month ahead of when I would have come up with that page. Aside from AP/lvl yellows, (And the mpen blues?) that's my Cass page. And I've been levelling up E 1st since I got her. Wave > jiji? You decide. I leveled q cuz odds told me to.
I rarely level Q first but I think it's a playstyle thing. I think if you're going to be super aggressive it's better to have a lot of points in E for that crazy burst. If you want to sit back and farm then level Q for the insane poke/damage.....thinking about it now i'm rarely aggressive in lane (jiji definitely is) maybe I should be levelling Q....
Whatever I doubt I'll be using her much these days now that I can play Kass without people whining at me.
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On September 16 2011 00:54 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 00:52 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I wouldn't call a tower a dive a 1v1 fight, but whatever makes you feel good. Fine, I'm noob then.
When you say you won a 1v1 fight when you were 4 levels and 50 cs behind and don't include that you exhausted somebody under a tower it makes it sound like you're a god among league players (Although I doubt anybody would fall for such a ruse). Baiting somebody into tower diving isn't exactly noob though :p well played.
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On September 16 2011 00:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 00:22 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 16 2011 00:10 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 15 2011 23:42 Two_DoWn wrote:On September 15 2011 23:39 Juicyfruit wrote:
I can't check but from the sound of it:
3 MS quints
9 Mpen red
9 AP/level yellows
7 AP/level blues
2 mpen blues
2 mpen blue is for exactly 30 mpen with sorc boots, which is everybody's base magic resistance. Huh. That actually kinda sounds like the caster page I was starting to think about creating. Ms quints and such. I guess there is a reason jiji is better than me. He's about a month ahead of when I would have come up with that page. Aside from AP/lvl yellows, (And the mpen blues?) that's my Cass page. And I've been levelling up E 1st since I got her. Wave > jiji? You decide. I leveled q cuz odds told me to. I rarely level Q first but I think it's a playstyle thing. I think if you're going to be super aggressive it's better to have a lot of points in E for that crazy burst. If you want to sit back and farm then level Q for the insane poke/damage.....thinking about it now i'm rarely aggressive in lane (jiji definitely is) maybe I should be levelling Q.... Whatever I doubt I'll be using her much these days now that I can play Kass without people whining at me.
Q was much stronger before everybody and their mothers start boots first in lane. It was also godlike with the AoE bug but that didn`t last too long.
Just like to point out that casseiopia`s Q has 0.9AP ratio and has 3 second cooldown. It was pretty bogus when you couldn`t dodge it.
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Just an FYI, I will be exclusively solo queueing on my main to prove a bunch of whiny smashers wrong about how high elo is only high elo because they have high elo friends that they duo with. I'll be happy to duo on Gizbro and Rock Rock On though.
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EPT
