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STS17
United States1817 Posts
On a physical-heavy team, I can see BC being a good choice to get if you are coordinated enough to all be focusing the same guy. New Topic: I see people raving about how imba WotA is but I never see discussion about Stark's Fervor? Is there something about this item that makes it shitty in comparison? | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
Almost EVERYBODY has AP ratio and do spell damage. It's fucking 25% spell vamp so we're looking at basically 2 free revolvers worth of spell vamp for 5 people, and Wota doesn't inherently screw over the person buying it since it's such a strong laning item to begin with on appropriate heroes. | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
the item itself is extremely efficient even for the 1 person buying it and even physical damage dealers often have spells that scale off of ad and as such they benefit from the spellvamp fully unlike ap casters that don't benefit from starks' aura nearly as much | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On October 05 2011 03:51 Juicyfruit wrote: Btw, I'd like to discuss two different ranged AD builds that I wish to compare. There's been a high prevalence of bloodthister core builds for a lot of AD carries where previously i.edge was rarely disputed, so I wish to compare them - the currently popular BT + PD combo, and the I.edge with a zeal and a vamp scepter to compliment the stats. Option 1: PD + BT (takes up 2 item slots) 5845g 100AD 25% lifesteal 25% crit 55% attack speed 15% movespeed Option 2: I.edge + Zeal + Vamp Scepter (takes up 3 item slots - not good at all if you buy more than 1 dblade) 5475g 80AD 12% lifesteal 35% critical strike 20% attack speed 8% movespeed + I.edge passive Since LW and QSS has to be tossed in there generally, let's just assume those two options are your damage core items and that you won't be getting to i.edge if you build BT and vice versa... Which one looks to be the better core? Option 1 seems to be very fotm right now but is it really any better than option 2? What if green elixir was factored in? What if you have dedicated? What if you have a nunu/nidalee on your team? I'm only saying this because I've been seeing a lot of people auto-building bloodthisters, and I was wondering if that might be a common mistake or if it's really that cookie cutter. I think I'm quoting Locodoco here who put the question of "Which BF item on which carry?" into a very, very simple statement. -You want BT on champs which abilities have AD scaling and which have a short attack range ("coincidently" they're the same) -You want IE on all other autoattackers, except those who like BC more. -BC is awesome on Corki (BC+e = real) and Vayne (as+dmg, yes plz) That basicly means: BT: MF, Ezreal, Urgot (Vayne) IE: Trist, Ashe, Cait, Twitch BC: Corki (Vayne) Since our lovely bear just asked me about Vayne and why she "makes no sense here" Arguement for BT: You're short range (need lifesteal) and have great AD scaling. Arguement for BC: You love early extra AS and your W compensates the lack of a quick LW vs high armor targets later in the game. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On October 05 2011 04:19 Requizen wrote: In what situations would you get early Wriggles, though? DBlade openers (and maybe 1 more) just seem much stronger. I open Boots+3 pretty much all the time. So Wriggle's follows pretty easily there. Wriggle's also lets you push waves, take towers and do dragons so much faster. That alone is quite a strong selling point for Wriggle's no matter if you're ahead or behind. Like if you're just slightly ahead - with Wriggle's you might be able to shove the lane and take a Dragon off a tiny positioning mistake by the enemy. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
Emblem of valor provides decent sustainability (bonus health regen for your partner in a duo) for half the cost of wriggles, though you do have some not-insignificant trade-offs for saving that 800g. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
WotA has super cheap components while Stark's requires you to save up a good sum of gold to get it. This becomes a problem when the vast majority of aura items are bought by support who never can save up gold. | ||
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Attakijing
United States693 Posts
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
On October 05 2011 04:31 r.Evo wrote: I think I'm quoting Locodoco here who put the question of "Which BF item on which carry?" into a very, very simple statement. -You want BT on champs which abilities have AD scaling and which have a short attack range ("coincidently" they're the same) -You want IE on all other autoattackers, except those who like BC more. -BC is awesome on Corki (BC+e = real) and Vayne (as+dmg, yes plz) That basicly means: BT: MF, Ezreal, Urgot (Vayne) IE: Trist, Ashe, Cait, Twitch BC: Corki (Vayne) But Urgot is going to want to get manamune for infinite q's and brutalizer for 3 q's off of hitting an e before going for a bit money item like BT. After that I usually get Triforce as it has movement speed slows and the sheen proc. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
On October 05 2011 04:58 Sabin010 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On October 05 2011 04:31 r.Evo wrote: I think I'm quoting Locodoco here who put the question of "Which BF item on which carry?" into a very, very simple statement. -You want BT on champs which abilities have AD scaling and which have a short attack range ("coincidently" they're the same) -You want IE on all other autoattackers, except those who like BC more. -BC is awesome on Corki (BC+e = real) and Vayne (as+dmg, yes plz) That basicly means: BT: MF, Ezreal, Urgot (Vayne) IE: Trist, Ashe, Cait, Twitch BC: Corki (Vayne) But Urgot is going to want to get manamune for infinite q's and brutalizer for 3 q's off of hitting an e before going for a bit money item like BT. After that I usually get Triforce as it has movement speed slows and the sheen proc. It's about the BF item, durr. =P Obviously you might get boots before that. Or Doran stack. Or wriggles. Or Manamune (Urgot, maybe Corki), or Sheen (Ez/Corki/Durpgot.). Or Brutalizer (Ez/Urgot). | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On October 05 2011 04:58 Sabin010 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On October 05 2011 04:31 r.Evo wrote: I think I'm quoting Locodoco here who put the question of "Which BF item on which carry?" into a very, very simple statement. -You want BT on champs which abilities have AD scaling and which have a short attack range ("coincidently" they're the same) -You want IE on all other autoattackers, except those who like BC more. -BC is awesome on Corki (BC+e = real) and Vayne (as+dmg, yes plz) That basicly means: BT: MF, Ezreal, Urgot (Vayne) IE: Trist, Ashe, Cait, Twitch BC: Corki (Vayne) But Urgot is going to want to get manamune for infinite q's and brutalizer for 3 q's off of hitting an e before going for a bit money item like BT. After that I usually get Triforce as it has movement speed slows and the sheen proc. I used to run Triforce Urgot before they changed his E to an AD ratio. Now I would argue unless you're going to be the main turret pusher/split pusher (and you shouldn't really be with such a short aa) stick with BT after Manamune/bruta if you want more damage, otherwise more CDR/tankiness. Also I'm fairly sure you can Q 3 times without any CDR....you need something like 35% for 4. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On October 05 2011 04:31 r.Evo wrote: I think I'm quoting Locodoco here who put the question of "Which BF item on which carry?" into a very, very simple statement. -You want BT on champs which abilities have AD scaling and which have a short attack range ("coincidently" they're the same) -You want IE on all other autoattackers, except those who like BC more. -BC is awesome on Corki (BC+e = real) and Vayne (as+dmg, yes plz) That basicly means: BT: MF, Ezreal, Urgot (Vayne) IE: Trist, Ashe, Cait, Twitch BC: Corki (Vayne) To quote loco even more, "if you can get an early BT, do it." I believe he said if you can buy BT outright at 14 mins you always should. I agree with the list that Evo put up too although I'd add in Kog'Maw and put him under IE as well. Lots of times if I'm getting fed early I go BT. If I'm losing or it's just a normal old game I go for IE. But then again I play a lot more Ashe/Trist/Kog/Cait than the other ADs and I think that IE is just straight better on them. When I play MF I usually go BT cause of her higher risk and dat ult. I get Trinity on Ez/Corki before a BF item and then build my BF item depending on the other team. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 05 2011 05:10 overt wrote: To quote loco even more, "if you can get an early BT, do it." I believe he said if you can buy BT outright at 14 mins you always should. I agree with the list that Evo put up too although I'd add in Kog'Maw and put him under IE as well. Lots of times if I'm getting fed early I go BT. If I'm losing or it's just a normal old game I go for IE. But then again I play a lot more Ashe/Trist/Kog/Cait than the other ADs and I think that IE is just straight better on them. When I play MF I usually go BT cause of her higher risk and dat ult. I get Trinity on Ez/Corki before a BF item and then build my BF item depending on the other team. See I feel the opposite. IE is more damage, BT is more survivability. Why would you need BT if you're ahead? If you're not threatened and you're fed, go for IE for teh big boomz. If I feel behind, I almost need BT so I can fight longer thanks to the lifesteal. My experience, anyway. I'd feel Kog would go for Bloodrazor before a BF item, but eh, I've never played him, so what do I know? | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 05 2011 05:21 Mogwai wrote: bloodrazor is sadly a very shitty item. I thought he stacked it on his Bio-arcane for lolnomnomhealth%? | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On October 05 2011 05:23 Requizen wrote: I thought he stacked it on his Bio-arcane for lolnomnomhealth%? Someone on TL did a writeup on this and I'll just summarize: Bloodrazor (even without magic pen, I believe) is the highest single dps item to buy for the gold. However, IE/PD/BT/LW exponentially scale off each other. So if you have a comp that you NEED to buy defense, you can buy Bloodrazor + Wit's End (maybe) + defensive items to still have respective damage, but otherwise you go IE/PD route to have higher overall damage. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On October 05 2011 05:23 Requizen wrote: I thought he stacked it on his Bio-arcane for lolnomnomhealth%? Kog and bloodrazor just have really really good synergy and you can build tanky and still do a fuckton of dmg. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On October 05 2011 05:20 Requizen wrote: See I feel the opposite. IE is more damage, BT is more survivability. Why would you need BT if you're ahead? If you're not threatened and you're fed, go for IE for teh big boomz. If I feel behind, I almost need BT so I can fight longer thanks to the lifesteal. My experience, anyway. I'd feel Kog would go for Bloodrazor before a BF item, but eh, I've never played him, so what do I know? BT if you're ahead because it almost guarantees you can get your stacks up quickly. That 100 AD is really strong and the lifesteal lets you play more risky to accomplish objectives quicker. It also means you can easily 1v1 the enemy AD who's already behind. Maybe even 1v2 their support depending on how far ahead you are. IE is good if you're down or in all other situations because your team desperately needs you to do damage and no item offers more damage for an AD carry than IE. If you're ahead early game and you want to go for early IE that's still good too but BT allows you to dominate even harder if you're already ahead. Madreds is meh. You're the AD carry, you're suppose to be doing lots of physical damage. You're suppose to build for late game. IE > Madreds for late game damage and for physical damage. Madreds isn't awful but I think it's very overrated on Koggles. I dunno, I'm just not a big fan of doing primarily magic damage when I play AD carries. Also, Kog's W is a free Bloodrazor so building Madreds on him is like building Warmogs on Cho'gath imo. | ||
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Phrost
United States4008 Posts
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