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On September 01 2011 11:17 chubbly wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 11:03 TheYango wrote:On September 01 2011 10:54 chubbly wrote:
Further discussion, what are people's thoughts about just hanging around the top area, mainly concentrating on top and mid lane ganks, with some counter jungling thrown in? Unless bot lane is in a particularly grievous position, I feel it costs a lot to attempt a gank there, since it is now two people to fight with your minimal health and Noc suffers a lot from death trying to gank.
Edit to your edit: Doesn't that delay your health a bit too long for the game. Grabbing WE leaves a long gap until a giant's belt from atmogs. I feel he just needs something to shore up that mid game deficit in health, especially when you aren't doing that great. Like with any other jungler, you need to devote your ganking depending on how much it will help the lanes in question, Particularly if bot lane is losing, you need to be able to maintain some presence there, because otherwise, you showing up top lane will give the opponents a free Dragon if bot lane is not strong enough to contest (this problem is exacerbated in solo queue, when the bot lane may STILL try to contest, despite not being strong enough to do so, and end up feeding 2 kills and potentially bot tower in addition to the Dragon). To give you an example of where I'm going with this, I was jungling and had Corki/janna lane vs their Garen/taric. Corki/Janna were getting rolled but I felt that is was a dangerous proposition to try even the chances by attempting a gank there. I did try after my first clear (delayed after I ventured into their jungle and found their low health jungler but not managing to to kill him) but died to the combo because none of us in the lane could initiate the fight. That is my point really, that Noc isn't the type of jungler who barrels into the lane to initiate the fight because he has such low health.
if they don't have wards (which seems to be the case in your post) wait until they have used some cc going on corki / janna to go in yourself
post 6 if one of them is in a bush and the other is not you can ult the one in the bush with some cv coverage and the other will be slightly behind if the time difference matters
also using your spellshield to block either garen q or taric e will make or break a gank on that lane
ganking any lane with garen after he's level 6 necessitates some level of risk, so just use your best judgement
its not as though nocturne's base hp is super bad or anything by itself
gangplank and any other non instant cc junglers run the same risk as nocturne does
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On September 01 2011 11:26 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 11:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i'm in the saintvicious camp of always getting wriggles ghostblade on dps jungles unless there's some special situation that begs for a different build. Which champs do you consider "DPS jungles"? Because the only 2 junglers I can think that's applicable to are Nocturne and Yi.
nunu.
edit:
FUCK. I just broke my string of useful comments by saying stupid shit again.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On September 01 2011 11:26 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 11:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i'm in the saintvicious camp of always getting wriggles ghostblade on dps jungles unless there's some special situation that begs for a different build. Which champs do you consider "DPS jungles"? Because the only 2 junglers I can think that's applicable to are Nocturne and Yi.
Makes sense since his best junglers are Noc and Yi.
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United States47024 Posts
The thing is, if you just straight up walk into bot lane when they have all their shit up, you're not going to get kills--this is true of any lane, bot, mid, or top. Even if you don't die, good luck forcing a kill through Taric stun, his Shatter armor bonus, Garen's Q speed, W shield, or E slow reduction.
To get a kill on most lanes, you generally have to have your laners bait them (either accidentally or intentionally) into blowing their shit. This is not any more or less true of bot lane than mid or top. If you're just going haphazardly into lanes when the laners have all their CDs up, you're just as likely to get instagibbed by an AP carry mid as you are ganking a strong pressure bot lane like Taric/Garen.
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On September 01 2011 11:34 TheYango wrote:
The thing is, if you just straight up walk into bot lane when they have all their shit up, you're not going to get kills--this is true of any lane, bot, mid, or top. Even if you don't die, good luck forcing a kill through Taric stun, his Shatter armor bonus, Garen's Q speed, W shield, or E slow reduction.
To get a kill on most lanes, you generally have to have your laners bait them (either accidentally or intentionally) into blowing their shit. This is not any more or less true of bot lane than mid or top. If you're just going haphazardly into lanes when the laners have all their CDs up, you're just as likely to get instagibbed by an AP carry mid as you are ganking a strong pressure bot lane like Taric/Garen.
a bit of an exaggeration esp with nocturne (spellshieldlol) and the fact that garen and taric both have strong cc and burst whereas with a setup from that lane ganking soloes is generally much safer and easier
but assuming similar amounts of cc on both sides with neither side feeding too hard useful advice
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United States47024 Posts
On September 01 2011 11:38 Navi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 11:34 TheYango wrote:
The thing is, if you just straight up walk into bot lane when they have all their shit up, you're not going to get kills--this is true of any lane, bot, mid, or top. Even if you don't die, good luck forcing a kill through Taric stun, his Shatter armor bonus, Garen's Q speed, W shield, or E slow reduction.
To get a kill on most lanes, you generally have to have your laners bait them (either accidentally or intentionally) into blowing their shit. This is not any more or less true of bot lane than mid or top. If you're just going haphazardly into lanes when the laners have all their CDs up, you're just as likely to get instagibbed by an AP carry mid as you are ganking a strong pressure bot lane like Taric/Garen. a bit of an exaggeration esp with nocturne (spellshieldlol) and the fact that garen and taric both have strong cc and burst whereas with a setup from that lane ganking soloes is generally much safer and easier but assuming similar amounts of cc on both sides with neither side feeding too hard useful advice
I mean, the point applies to defensive cooldowns as much as offensive ones. Against laners like say, Corki or Vladimir, your ganks are going to be much more likely to accomplish something if your laner can bait the Valkyrie/Pool before you go in.
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magazine will be ~9 bucks apparently.
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On September 01 2011 11:07 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 11:04 Jaso wrote:
Hmm..
What do you guys think of Manamune+Archangel Ezreal?
I played a game with him and ended up with a TF, Manamune, AA, Deathcap, and CDR Boosts.
I did get pretty fed and it wouldn't exactly be good in high level play, but it was hella fun :D Where do people get the idea that Ezreal needs max mana? Your only spammy skill is Q. W shouldn't be leveled more than once, and thus is only really useful for maintaining passive stacks, and E should be held in reserve for cleanup/escaping/kiting. You really have no need for the deep mana pool that Manamune or AA gives. You need some regen for sustainable Q poke, but that's easily handled with runes.
I don't actually think he desperately needs a lot of mana.
I just think that he can take advantage of the ability to quickly max out a ToG.
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On September 01 2011 11:26 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 11:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i'm in the saintvicious camp of always getting wriggles ghostblade on dps jungles unless there's some special situation that begs for a different build. Which champs do you consider "DPS jungles"? Because the only 2 junglers I can think that's applicable to are Nocturne and Yi.
thats the two im thinking of
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On September 01 2011 11:43 Jaso wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 11:07 TheYango wrote:On September 01 2011 11:04 Jaso wrote:
Hmm..
What do you guys think of Manamune+Archangel Ezreal?
I played a game with him and ended up with a TF, Manamune, AA, Deathcap, and CDR Boosts.
I did get pretty fed and it wouldn't exactly be good in high level play, but it was hella fun :D Where do people get the idea that Ezreal needs max mana? Your only spammy skill is Q. W shouldn't be leveled more than once, and thus is only really useful for maintaining passive stacks, and E should be held in reserve for cleanup/escaping/kiting. You really have no need for the deep mana pool that Manamune or AA gives. You need some regen for sustainable Q poke, but that's easily handled with runes. I don't actually think he desperately needs a lot of mana. I just think that he can take advantage of the ability to quickly max out a ToG.
Without a real need for that much mana, Manamune is just not worth it regardless of how fast the Tear passive gets maxed. There are just so many better options damagewise (and Sheen/Trinity Force actually give mana too).
I always found Manamune on Ezreal to be terrible, though I haven't tried that since the patch it was added (and Ezreal got hit with a gigantic nerf).
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United States47024 Posts
On September 01 2011 11:43 Jaso wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 11:07 TheYango wrote:On September 01 2011 11:04 Jaso wrote:
Hmm..
What do you guys think of Manamune+Archangel Ezreal?
I played a game with him and ended up with a TF, Manamune, AA, Deathcap, and CDR Boosts.
I did get pretty fed and it wouldn't exactly be good in high level play, but it was hella fun :D Where do people get the idea that Ezreal needs max mana? Your only spammy skill is Q. W shouldn't be leveled more than once, and thus is only really useful for maintaining passive stacks, and E should be held in reserve for cleanup/escaping/kiting. You really have no need for the deep mana pool that Manamune or AA gives. You need some regen for sustainable Q poke, but that's easily handled with runes. I don't actually think he desperately needs a lot of mana. I just think that he can take advantage of the ability to quickly max out a ToG.
Instead of maxing a Tear, you could max a Bloodthirster, and get way more out of it.
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I don't care what anybody says I love my Ezreal Manamune > RoA > Rabaddons > Banshees Veil > Lichebane > AA Staff build.
Q hits for 1000+ lategame.
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xin is also a dps jungle~
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
trundle, amumu, and every other jungler is capable of damage per second
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On September 01 2011 12:09 Brees wrote:
trundle, amumu, and every other jungler is capable of damage per second
This man speaks the truth.
Also unorthodox junglers like Malz, Morde and Ezreal that appeared in some my last few games.
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On September 01 2011 11:34 TheYango wrote:
The thing is, if you just straight up walk into bot lane when they have all their shit up, you're not going to get kills--this is true of any lane, bot, mid, or top. Even if you don't die, good luck forcing a kill through Taric stun, his Shatter armor bonus, Garen's Q speed, W shield, or E slow reduction.
To get a kill on most lanes, you generally have to have your laners bait them (either accidentally or intentionally) into blowing their shit. This is not any more or less true of bot lane than mid or top. If you're just going haphazardly into lanes when the laners have all their CDs up, you're just as likely to get instagibbed by an AP carry mid as you are ganking a strong pressure bot lane like Taric/Garen.
Yeah, this is basically as true as it gets. Since most heros these days have spells that let them get out of ganks (read: bullshit gap closers/escapes), you'll either have to hit a lane that you know has those mechanisms down/expended, or be so far ahead of your opponent that it doesn't even matter.
The second scenario is as rare as it gets, especially for a jungler.
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So, if one were to get a code like this, but not own the champ...does the champ unlock, or can you not enter the code until you get the champ?
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EPT
