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On September 02 2011 22:33 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 17:28 Seuss wrote:The whole spiel about Skarner being an anti-anti-carry is neat, but he's by far not the first. It's basically exactly how Doublelift described playing Blitzcrank, except Blitzcrank: - Has better/safer initiation.
- Is a part of some pretty nasty duos.
- Doesn't need farm to be effective in an anti-anti-carry role.
- Isn't defeated by QSS.
If my goal is to have someone to protect my carry from assassins, I'll pick Blitzcrank or Alistar over Skarner any day. The fact that Skarner isn't a champion with a blatantly obvious item build doesn't help. Not to mention Cho Gath. Rupture incapacitates anti carries for almost as long as skarner ulti, well placed screams save lives and screw over the enemy team, and the first anti carry to attack your carry can get insta-killed by your team and true damage nomnomnom. Not to mention that you can actually sit on your carry and make it hard to click on them. Or what about Janna? Tornado + slow + shield + ulti will save your carry nearly every time and is a ton of CC and protection for an anti-carry to deal with, much more than what Skarner gives you. Or Alistar, the other prime support, he's fine at protecting a carry too. Protecting the carry isn't some kind of new undiscovered role. People have been doing it for ages with tons of different champions and most of those champions are way more flexible than Skarner is. Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 21:03 r.Evo wrote:
I think Odds posted it earlier:
There are two champs out there who have an Autoattack = CDR mechanic in their kit. One being Xin Zhao (24-16s cd, 5s duration, this skill has shown itsself to be incredibly hard to balance), the other being Skarner. As a passive.
AS = CDR is a broken mechanic per definition since it allows the champ to go beyond 40% CDR. I think Skarner is actually "balanced" by Riot with that in mind which means if you don't abuse this you're going to feel the champ is incredibly underpowered. Strong mechanic =/= strong champion, even using that mechanic. For instance, Xin Zhao has the same mechanic but at the moment he's more or less a noob stomper. Vayne has % true damage but can't lean on that alone, most of her damage is still physical. Kayle had a free gold passive but before the rework wasn't mind bogglingly OP (though she got popular after Q got a free buff). Unlike these champions though, Skarner has few ways of ensuring that he actually gets to use his mechanic and can easily be shut down by burst damage and hard CC (even silence screws him over). That's why you're arguing for him to cower next to the carry. Unfortunately I think there are better carry babysitters.
IMO what's good about skarner is in solo quene normal games if you need a jungler/anti-anti carry he can help round out your team.
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On September 03 2011 00:35 Mogwai wrote:
Lee Sin is probably my 3rd least favorite champ in the game right now after Poppy and Fiddlesticks.
Your just mad cuz they took away xin's role and gave it to lee sin.
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So does anyone know when is the new season and dominion is, I want to ladder and try out the new thing now I'm just waiting while nothing is happening.
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Uhhhh supposedly late August, but it's a tidbit late for that, so my guess would be the next patch? Aka, Tuesday I think.
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still no new champ preview, so i guess next patch would be dominion
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On September 02 2011 21:04 Haemonculus wrote:
"Ok, all lee sins have a compulsion. If they land Q, they will alllways dive on your face. Doesn't matter if it'll get them killed, they'll do it anyway. It's some sort of primal need they have.
It took me like 10 games to stop myself from doing this. IT'S JUST SO MUCH FUN.
On September 02 2011 21:04 Haemonculus wrote:
Alright stand like barely inside tower range. Ok do your laugh a few times and let him hit you. As soon as he's in the air, flash behind the tower and hit him with everything you've got. Guaranteed to kill him."
I would have 100% fallen for that.
Please don't spread the word.
Please.
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On September 03 2011 01:24 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 22:33 phyvo wrote:On September 02 2011 17:28 Seuss wrote:The whole spiel about Skarner being an anti-anti-carry is neat, but he's by far not the first. It's basically exactly how Doublelift described playing Blitzcrank, except Blitzcrank: - Has better/safer initiation.
- Is a part of some pretty nasty duos.
- Doesn't need farm to be effective in an anti-anti-carry role.
- Isn't defeated by QSS.
If my goal is to have someone to protect my carry from assassins, I'll pick Blitzcrank or Alistar over Skarner any day. The fact that Skarner isn't a champion with a blatantly obvious item build doesn't help. Not to mention Cho Gath. Rupture incapacitates anti carries for almost as long as skarner ulti, well placed screams save lives and screw over the enemy team, and the first anti carry to attack your carry can get insta-killed by your team and true damage nomnomnom. Not to mention that you can actually sit on your carry and make it hard to click on them. Or what about Janna? Tornado + slow + shield + ulti will save your carry nearly every time and is a ton of CC and protection for an anti-carry to deal with, much more than what Skarner gives you. Or Alistar, the other prime support, he's fine at protecting a carry too. Protecting the carry isn't some kind of new undiscovered role. People have been doing it for ages with tons of different champions and most of those champions are way more flexible than Skarner is. On September 02 2011 21:03 r.Evo wrote:
I think Odds posted it earlier:
There are two champs out there who have an Autoattack = CDR mechanic in their kit. One being Xin Zhao (24-16s cd, 5s duration, this skill has shown itsself to be incredibly hard to balance), the other being Skarner. As a passive.
AS = CDR is a broken mechanic per definition since it allows the champ to go beyond 40% CDR. I think Skarner is actually "balanced" by Riot with that in mind which means if you don't abuse this you're going to feel the champ is incredibly underpowered. Strong mechanic =/= strong champion, even using that mechanic. For instance, Xin Zhao has the same mechanic but at the moment he's more or less a noob stomper. Vayne has % true damage but can't lean on that alone, most of her damage is still physical. Kayle had a free gold passive but before the rework wasn't mind bogglingly OP (though she got popular after Q got a free buff). Unlike these champions though, Skarner has few ways of ensuring that he actually gets to use his mechanic and can easily be shut down by burst damage and hard CC (even silence screws him over). That's why you're arguing for him to cower next to the carry. Unfortunately I think there are better carry babysitters. IMO what's good about skarner is in solo quene normal games if you need a jungler/anti-anti carry he can help round out your team.
Except that in those games Cho Gath is also a perfectly viable jungler/carry protector and is in fact more versatile in the jungle than Skarner is. Ganks are a bit of a toss up for both but Cho has far more range.
I'm not saying that Skarner can't even attempt to protect his carry. But let's be honest here: protecting the carry (by killing anti-carries or ccing them) is not some kind of new role; there are lots of champions who can do it and they come from all lanes. Pretending it's a special upside for Skarner is wishful thinking.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 03 2011 01:24 ibreakurface wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2011 22:33 phyvo wrote:On September 02 2011 17:28 Seuss wrote:The whole spiel about Skarner being an anti-anti-carry is neat, but he's by far not the first. It's basically exactly how Doublelift described playing Blitzcrank, except Blitzcrank: - Has better/safer initiation.
- Is a part of some pretty nasty duos.
- Doesn't need farm to be effective in an anti-anti-carry role.
- Isn't defeated by QSS.
If my goal is to have someone to protect my carry from assassins, I'll pick Blitzcrank or Alistar over Skarner any day. The fact that Skarner isn't a champion with a blatantly obvious item build doesn't help. Not to mention Cho Gath. Rupture incapacitates anti carries for almost as long as skarner ulti, well placed screams save lives and screw over the enemy team, and the first anti carry to attack your carry can get insta-killed by your team and true damage nomnomnom. Not to mention that you can actually sit on your carry and make it hard to click on them. Or what about Janna? Tornado + slow + shield + ulti will save your carry nearly every time and is a ton of CC and protection for an anti-carry to deal with, much more than what Skarner gives you. Or Alistar, the other prime support, he's fine at protecting a carry too. Protecting the carry isn't some kind of new undiscovered role. People have been doing it for ages with tons of different champions and most of those champions are way more flexible than Skarner is. On September 02 2011 21:03 r.Evo wrote:
I think Odds posted it earlier:
There are two champs out there who have an Autoattack = CDR mechanic in their kit. One being Xin Zhao (24-16s cd, 5s duration, this skill has shown itsself to be incredibly hard to balance), the other being Skarner. As a passive.
AS = CDR is a broken mechanic per definition since it allows the champ to go beyond 40% CDR. I think Skarner is actually "balanced" by Riot with that in mind which means if you don't abuse this you're going to feel the champ is incredibly underpowered. Strong mechanic =/= strong champion, even using that mechanic. For instance, Xin Zhao has the same mechanic but at the moment he's more or less a noob stomper. Vayne has % true damage but can't lean on that alone, most of her damage is still physical. Kayle had a free gold passive but before the rework wasn't mind bogglingly OP (though she got popular after Q got a free buff). Unlike these champions though, Skarner has few ways of ensuring that he actually gets to use his mechanic and can easily be shut down by burst damage and hard CC (even silence screws him over). That's why you're arguing for him to cower next to the carry. Unfortunately I think there are better carry babysitters. IMO what's good about skarner is in solo quene normal games if you need a jungler/anti-anti carry he can help round out your team.
Nunu is probably the best jungler in the business of protecting carries. Alistar and Cho'gath are both capable of jungling even if they're better in other roles. Lee Sin and Trundle can peel/fight anticarries if the situation calls for it.
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Yeah Nunu's the best carry defender, he's just hard as shit to play lol
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So I was playin Cait last night, and quite well, to the point that I asked in chat: "why is cait the only ranged carry I can play well?"
Luckily Spud had a response for me; "She is impossible to mess up."
That got me thinking. What other characters are impossible to screw up? I think amumu is high on that list, as is morde. Who else?
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Amumu is easy as shit to mess up, he just has a low skill threshold because his ult is damning against terrible people. But once they wisen up he's really tricky.
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Meant it for lane phase mostly, there is never a weak matchup for caitlyn bot lane. You have 3 skills that are amazing in lane plus a long range auto attack. For AP carry, Brand doesn't really have a weak lane matchup and provides consistent results. For top lane, it varies due to the amount of matchups but Garen is probably the best example I can think of where you will always have a solid lane matchup. Jungle I'd have to say warwick since your job is so basic. Your team doesn't even really expect ganks from you until you are 6 and you don't have to skillshot or anything just stun them and hope ur teammate follows it up.
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Also, ganking with him requires to hit a skill shot. You'd be amazed at how much low ELO amumu fails their gank.
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Been having thoughts about team-comps: what I think might start to become optimal would be to have two or three champs with strong zoning abilities, then the others with AOE ults, for instance Singed/Kog - Mummy/Sona/Brand, or Veigar/Janna - Leona/MF/GP. Seems quite intuitive, but might work better than straight up AOE or supress ulti spam that's popular at the moment.
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On September 03 2011 02:04 Southlight wrote:
Amumu is easy as shit to mess up, he just has a low skill threshold because his ult is damning against terrible people. But once they wisen up he's really tricky.
^
Once people stop clumping together to instantly die in your ulti; you actually need to learn how to play him. Luckily, he's still super strong.
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Mundo is pretty hard to screw up. He's just bad (on SR).
oh lane matchups he has few good ones and many farm-with-cleaver-till-6 ones. But in teamfights it's run screaming at whoever, WEQQEQQEQQEQREQEQEQEQQEQEQQ until everyone's dead.
On September 03 2011 00:47 phyvo wrote:
Sheen is a good buy early game but in terms of damage it's a dead end (especially if you get enough CDR/attack speed to get .8 second Qs which don't benefit sheen at all). TF isn't great but I think that's Skarner's fault more than anything else.
The thing is, there aren't many other damage items that work well with Skarner. His damage output is so thoroughly mixed. You're going to be autoattacking, Q is phys/magic with dual ratio, E and R have AP ratio...
Sheen is a good buy because
1) skarner really needs damage early
2) skarno lub dat mana pool
3) trinity force = skorpion more vroom vroom
4) huge base attack damage means big sheen procs
If you get sheen though don't upgrade it till later because you need that as/cdr.
Other things that work for early damage on skarner:
GRB - favorite so far
Manamune - #1 item, all carry es buy it, but skarno spam mean he need 2x manamune
Ghostblade - more vroom vroom; arpen isn't ideal but it works and the active + CDR is glorious
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I just think Cait's kit is designed specifically for laning. Q hit melee minion, caster minion, then you. W can just handicap your ability to zone. E is an escape and can pin you down. Sick sick range on autos.
My favorite type of champ to play is ranged AD carries, but I hate to play as Cait because of how cheap she can be. I lost so many lanes against players who use her, but I look at it where going up against such a difficult champ improves my laning. xoxo Trist4ever
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how do i lane vs kat in general? i just got beaten up pretty badly by some random player.
She gets free 100+ dmg every 5(?) secs on me or i have to stay out of xp range.
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8748 Posts
new way to get whatever lane/champ you want even if you're last pick: say you're on a friend's account helping him get gold. this guy did this last night, reserving top lane for himself, saying he's plat on his main. he picks morde for himself against garen, goes like 0-3 in lane, 4-13 total. i was nice but try to get him to admit he's not plat. he never does. just goes on about having 2k latency. i was forced to go support bot, and i took lux like a boss and totally saved the game
also new trend in 1400's: ad carry saying "if only you guys would protect me, we could win team fights" after they charge across the battlefield to kill the enemy carry. the idea that you must target the enemy carry first is way too strong at low elo. pick vayne and kill their bruisers, gg :D
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I would do that but I'm not confident enough that I can carry LOL
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EPT
