Recently after hitting lvl 30, i decided to try and learn to jungle properly. Lacking the a full rune page, i begin to test a few champions that i play which is also viable to jungle with. From my observations i have come up with some cons and pros of each.
What i need you fellow TLs to do is to correct any mistakes i would create and also vote in the poll. Who should i get a full jungle rune page for?
fiddlesticks Pros- ganking with ulti is VERY POWERFUL one of the faster junglers silence + fear combo ensures no escape Cons- laning with fiddle is too good to ignore can be easily counter jungled requries team coordination to maximise ulti use sometimes will leave the jungle without suffice health to gank unsafe to jungle with (mistakes are punished hard)
shaco Pros- very strong jungle stealthed ganking unexpectingly high damage free flash Cons- squishy no cc (people do not walk into bushes) better more viable junglers requires rare opportunities to effectively gank (you may never be able to gank)
maokai Pros- amazing cc passive works well in jungle Cons- slow jungler laning harrass is insane if maxing sapling toss laning kills very viable with root and arcane smash combo passive works even better in lane cannot start at blue
Thanks for the help and if it seems very noob like observations, please correct me
None of them are jungles you want to bank on. FIdds is the most reliable, but even he gets screwed HARD by counterjungling. Shaco requires a lot of skill and game knowledge to pull off reliably, and mao is never really used in jungle at top level.
If you really want to learn how to jungle, your best served by picking up one of the jungles who are dedicated jungles and the best at their level. Nunu, WW, Trundle, Noct are better than the 3 you chose. All have multiple clears, allow for aggressive and defensive jungle play, and will teach you enough about how the jungle works while still being forgiving in order for you play a more difficult jungle like fidds or shaco.
Fiddle is like the most un-counter-junglable jungle hero lol. I tried but that bitch simply does not jungle. And when I jungle Fiddle I really really don't wander around killing creep very often.
Im confident in my shaco skills and even went pub stomping with him to hillarious effects. Fiddle to me seems to have such great laning thats its impossible to ignore. Mao is the one that tank that i like which is viable to jungle with.
Do you suggest i get a rune page for one of the lvl 1 junglers and attempt to jungle? I do know that you can reuse a lot of the same runes for another jungler. From what i see, nunu is counter jungle god, ww is impossible to die from jungling, trundle has one of the best ganks in the game and noct is secretly op.
If i were to jungle, which lvl 1 jungler should i start with? thanks in advance
If your starting to learn how to jungle, you probably are going to be starting blue alot. Which means that if they take your blue, you are going to be shit outta luck. Now, that isnt the route that I use, but its the one he was probably told to use by someone. And how is he uncounterable? He has a strong 1v1 sure, but the instant he doesnt get blue buff or a creep camp you set him back quite a ways. The goal on jungle fidds is to come out of jungle with a cap. Its REALLY easy to set a fidds back from doing that.
I took Honver's Fiddle build which involves triple DRing to start off jungle. Blue's nice and speeds stuff up but is by far not necessary, and aside from the two buffs Fiddle really doesn't (need to) spend as much time dicking around killing creep camps, so counterjungling him is generally a waste of time and effort if you're trying to jar the Fiddle because all you're doing is giving him more incentive to drain someone for a kill :x
On August 16 2011 23:22 Two_DoWn wrote: Im pretty sure that ww, nunu, udyr, trundle, and noc can all jungle without runes.
The standard jungle runepage that will work on most everyone is 8aspeed 1 armpen red, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues, and armpen quints.
So far i have failed to jungle with all of the above without runes...
feels bad man
run 1-8-21, opening cloth+5. Smite big wraith, then kill twin golems. Then go wraiths and wolves. If you got a pull at golems, you should be able to kill blue. If your too low, go back and get boots. Then do blue and gols again, then red.
If you still are having trouble, switch your runes to be more defensive.
out of those three i would say fiddle is the best jungler. but there are junglers who are better at jungleing and better at ganking, WW, nunu, nocturne, udyr are a few i can think of that are realy good junglers and gankers. so i would recommend going one of those over fiddle.
Warwick, Trundle, Nunu, Nocturne, Udyr, and Fiddlesticks are the best junglers to start out with as they all have built in sustain and clearing power. (Lee Sin and Cho'gath are pretty good as well) You can google Stonewall and TheOddOne for some good specific guides out there. Generally all you need are x9 Armor Seals and Smite to jungle, with everything else simply adding to your speed. Some Junglers cannot do a full clear, and you don't have to. There are advantages for all different types of routes.
To start with, instead of mao check amumu- overall a great, easy jungler, in addition to that he is a tank which allows an ap carry or a dps to farm on as a solo laner.
My personal favourite jungler and my main champion is trundle. I consider making a guide and posting it on teamliquid forums.
There is no jungler out there I fear and i mean FEAR as much as Fiddle, no escape, sick damage and just pops up at the worst times constantly. WW, trundle, lee sin are all good but nothing fucks up my play or guarantees ganks as easily as fiddle imho.
On August 17 2011 00:54 Yttrasil wrote: There is no jungler out there I fear and i mean FEAR as much as Fiddle, no escape, sick damage and just pops up at the worst times constantly. WW, trundle, lee sin are all good but nothing fucks up my play or guarantees ganks as easily as fiddle imho.
On August 17 2011 00:41 wei2coolman wrote: Best Jungler Is twitch, hands down.
No one can call MIA on you if you're jungling, and the invisibility is ridiculously powerful as a jungler.
User was warned for this post
I got a warning for this? WTF?
No joke, 10 games ago my team just got Buttraped by a jungling twitch, and I'm not even fucking joking at all. The ambiguity of invisibility alongside the jungling/roaming gives way too much ambiguity for a gank, now unless the opossing team decides to spend 125 for visionwards all over the place, jungling twitch is fucking ridiculous. With that being said you need the right runes and masteries to do it.
Over-the-top stupid comments are indeed warnable when you're passing them off as good advice., especially when you were given three options, none of which was Twitch.
Fiddle is the only solid jungler of the three listed (given the current state of the game, etc).
On August 16 2011 23:22 Two_DoWn wrote: Im pretty sure that ww, nunu, udyr, trundle, and noc can all jungle without runes.
The standard jungle runepage that will work on most everyone is 8aspeed 1 armpen red, armor yellows, mr/lvl blues, and armpen quints.
So far i have failed to jungle with all of the above without runes...
feels bad man
run 1-8-21, opening cloth+5. Smite big wraith, then kill twin golems. Then go wraiths and wolves. If you got a pull at golems, you should be able to kill blue. If your too low, go back and get boots. Then do blue and gols again, then red.
If you still are having trouble, switch your runes to be more defensive.
Agreed, I think Nunu is one of the easier jungler to start out with. He can also counter jungle well too.
I learned jungle with Malphite, then Rammus, then Amumu.
Does this answer some of your bewilderment regarding how I play, Neo? LOL
Edit: Oh yeah, release-version Udyr too I guess.
Edit2: I mentioned before in the thread but Fiddle's the best jungler of the 3 at the moment, and is also one of the best junglers overall atm, and is also banned a lot. He's also probably going to get nerfed again at some point. Take that as you will.
Nunu is one of the best junglers, because his jungle speed is very optimal (around 3:50), he's difficult to counter jungle and he can easily counter jungle himself. Thanks to Snowball and his speed buff he can gank very good. Especially when with the red buff, then no one he hits will escape him. But unfortunately his getting pretty useless in the late game, because even with Banshee's Veil his ulti can be instantly taken down. So you have to play a pretty good early game and mid game with a lot of succesful ganks and teamfights. And he can jungle without runes. The safest build is 0/21/9, which doesn't improve your Smite (but imo he doesn't need improved Smite), but gives you great survivability and you can make blue golem without any pulls and help. I tried 1/19/10 but with runes and I think that without them he won't handle jungle alone (if someone pulls him, then yes). Fiddlesticks owns with his ulti and damage, but only on public games. There is no way for him to do much if he gets stunned or CC'ed correctly. I'd like to agree with Pogo0o, Amumu is a great jungler too. He has lots of health early on and can gank with his Bandage Toss and deal great damage with his Tantrum and Despair.
Your jungle pick has a big impact on the game you're playing.
It also helps with your team's comp.
Do you need a support? Jungle nunu Need an AD ripper? Master Yi Need someone who's going to be able to survive a lane and have a stun ult? Warwick Need a more consistant stun? Udyr Need some CC/AoE slow? Trundle Need heavy and bulky damage output? Jungle jarvan/irralia(sp)/brolof are good in this category.
Also consider can your team counter-jungle well? Can you counter-jungle well? Nunu, warwick, udyr, all good counters.
As already stated Fiddles is better choice from 3 mentioned champs .
Then again i wouldn't advise fids as your first Jungle choice espec if you can't get your team to protect you from jungle ganks and/or enemy team has jungle nunu.
@ Ziemson Nunu is stil great Jungler , but his late game lacks compared to other jungle picks and recent E (Snowball) nerf made his bigest assest - early game - lackluster
I vote mumu / rammus as best choice when start to learn Jungle / Tank / LoL You compliment your team with Jungler + tank and even if you mess up you can still act as meatshield . Also both of them are hated for CC/gap closer and since new ppl push lanes like mad .. getting gank kills are cake .
Once you know the drill get champs like noc / olaf and melt faces
Nunu is a great jungler but out of those 3 i would say Fiddle.
Nunu however has to be played good. You can't be afraid to abuse that incredible jungle power, you have to clear your own jungle, invade the other jungle and gank lanes. Most junglers are happy enough just farming and ganking but for Nunu to shine he has to really go all out.
Guys, I'd like to try Warwick, haven't ever played him before. Can I go jungle with my runes for a tank: HP Quints, HP Marks, Dodge Seals and Magic Resist Glyphs? What masteries he needs?
On August 17 2011 19:29 Ziemson wrote: Guys, I'd like to try Warwick, haven't ever played him before. Can I go jungle with my runes for a tank: HP Quints, HP Marks, Dodge Seals and Magic Resist Glyphs? What masteries he needs?
You can safely do Jungle WW with that setup but your ganks will be a little weak with HP Marks.
I think I will handle that, thanks. But doesn't he only need 9 in offense for cooldown reduction and 15% spell penetration? With this I would get 21 in utility which is imo very good.
Master yi jungle is also really good. It just works a little different. You don't get the red/blue buffs till lvl 4 or so and just farm: Golems-wraiths-wolves and get a quick Wriggle's lantern + boots.
fiddle is easily the best of what you listed. very strong gank/teamfights but he is often banned if you are looking to play ranked
shaco has been pretty bad for a while now (he ate tons of nerfs over time). he is still pretty good at ganking early with red but after that you are basically useless
maokai is OK but not normally a jungler. usually played as solo lane
other ones you should look at: amumu: easy to jungle on, very strong. good gank at 6 with flash + ult + Q. only thing you really have to learn with him is landing the Q and ulting at good times. start cloth armor 5 pots then W at 1, E at 2 + 3, Q at 4. after that max E > W > Q and get ult whenever you can. build heart of gold + philo stone early then go into merc treads/aegis/sunfire/ect
ww: pretty much the easiest jungle. with his passive you can start almost anything and still clear jungle well. build tanky (wriggles, merc tread, spirit visage then wits end or sunfire depending)
those two have been among the best junglers forever and are staples in competitive play. also both fairly easy to clear the jungle on and don't cost much IP
I think amumu and yi are the two easiest junglers to win with in solo queue, once mastered. They both have decent to strong ganks but are capable of farming fast and are capable of accomplishing a lot even if lanes don't do well.
Fiddlesticks is strong as a jungler, but playing him can be extremely unpleasant if your teammates are incompetent.
EPT
