EPTGeneral Discussion/Off-topic - Page 758
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On May 20 2011 23:24 spinesheath wrote: I did some rune combining on my US acc at the start. It was fun. But looking back, it was a waste. Even if I got a bunch of decent runes for 10% cheaper overall, the runes I use now are largely bought directly. If you use the combiner for more than the 25 T1 runes you got on your way to lvl 30, you will delay your first decent runesets quite a bit. So imo: don't use the combiner for anything other than getting rid of T1 runes you got pre lvl 30. I agree that if you're only interested in 1-2 types of runes the rune combiner is not the way to go. The fastest way to get, say, a good ranged carry page will always be to simply buy the runes you want. But in the long run the rune combiner is much more than 10% cheaper (haven't you seen the math yet?) and IMO having a perfect rune page is overrated. If you're willing to purchase 25 T1 runes that give 55% of the T3 effect, I don't see why you'd have a problem with having a T3 rune page with ~55% of the runes you want and 45% more mottled but still useful stuff. It may delay things a little but in the long run it's very worth it. I wish that I could go back and do it instead of simply saving for T3 like I did, it would have saved me a lot of IP and I'd have more runes. It's a bit much for a newbie but there's even a spreadsheet that can tell you, depending on the runes that you own and the runes that you want, whether or not you are likely to save IP in the rune combiner. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
LiquidParty channels are fucked up once again, we're currently having two. Please leave/rejoin channel to get into the one where everyone can join. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On May 21 2011 00:17 phyvo wrote: I agree that if you're only interested in 1-2 types of runes the rune combiner is not the way to go. The fastest way to get, say, a good ranged carry page will always be to simply buy the runes you want. But in the long run the rune combiner is much more than 10% cheaper (haven't you seen the math yet?) and IMO having a perfect rune page is overrated. If you're willing to purchase 25 T1 runes that give 55% of the T3 effect, I don't see why you'd have a problem with having a T3 rune page with ~55% of the runes you want and 45% more mottled but still useful stuff. It may delay things a little but in the long run it's very worth it. I wish that I could go back and do it instead of simply saving for T3 like I did, it would have saved me a lot of IP and I'd have more runes. It's a bit much for a newbie but there's even a spreadsheet that can tell you, depending on the runes that you own and the runes that you want, whether or not you are likely to save IP in the rune combiner. I know the math, that's why I did it for a while. Sure if you want ALL the runes, then it's a lot cheaper. If you assume that the chance for each rune is equal, then the average combined T3 rune is worth 718 IP. 25 T1 runes cost 375 IP. So you pay only 48% of the price of an average rune. BUT half the runes are not actually worth anything. Stuff like HP5/lvl everything, AD or AD/lvl seals/glyphs, AP or AP/lvl marks, CDR or CDR/lvl marks and seals, and so on. In the end you only get like 10% profit if you consider quite a bunch of runes "good" that are niche (HP5 quints, MPen glyphs, CDR quints, -deathtime quints, crit damage...). And to actually make use of those you will have to drop loads of IP on the missing runes once you stop combining, as well as on necessary runepages. Sure you can recombine the useless runes. But that's most likely what you need to get some profit out of combining in the first place. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
So I disagree and I think the 10% IP savings simply isn't true unless somehow my definition of "strictly useful rune" is way off (and you listed runes I would not have listed), or the spreadsheet was completely and utterly crapped up in its assumptions (which is also possible). And to actually make use of those you will have to drop loads of IP on the missing runes once you stop combining, as well as on necessary runepages. Given that just a few months ago I went through the spreadsheet and it told me that I could still save a little (not much, but a little) on combining runes, I think that it's profitable to combine runes for far longer than you think (not that it would be worth the hassle for me personally right now). Besides, the savings you make on your runes can easily be applied to odd spare runes and rune pages and then you'll have more runes *and* more rune pages than someone who bought things straight up. Looks win-win to me. You obviously believe your 10% number though, and in that case that kind of thing wouldn't be possible (10% savings off of a 718 ip average means 3 rune pages worth of runes before you can afford to buy one rune page, which would still be worth it except you own oddball runes that don't necessarily match). Sure you can recombine the useless runes. But that's most likely what you need to get some profit out of combining in the first place. You aren't really making sense here. You're implying that recombining useless runes is what keeps this spending strategy in the black and therefore it is a bad strategy. That is beside the point, because if the end result is the same (you get the runes you want) and you spend less IP (you get the savings you want) then the simple fact is that, for a bit of patience, you're saving IP for the same runes. Whether I'm hitting a "recombine" button on T3 runes or running in a hamster wheel to do it really doesn't matter. | ||
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
I wish I had gone back and done rune combining with t1 shit, now I'm afraid of getting runes I already have full sets of. I had like 6 T3 flat mana regen runes that I was never gonna use so I combined them and got a red crit chance, yellow health/lvl (i don't play champs that would use those zz), and a movespeed quint (yay) This is why I troll as opposed to tryharding, because it's more fun~~ | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
http://www.mediafire.com/file/ohpob1v761b9p3j/runes.ods A 1 means that you want this rune, a 0 means that you don't want it. I did a quick selection of 44 runes (of the 93 total) I would keep. Some of those runes I probably would't keep on second thought... Result: expected value of 327 IP, with a combine cost of 375 IP. Sure you can add a bunch more, but you'll HAVE to add them to make profit. Now for recombining T3 runes: I constructed some formula that is supposed to describe the chance that I get one of my desired x runes if I recombine all the runes I don't want. t is the total number of runes, 93. The formula is: (x/t)*sum[from i=0 to infinity]{((t-x)/(2*t))^i} which should evaluate to (2*x)/(t+x). Reason: first I have a chance of x/t, then for the rest (t-x)/t I have half the chance and so on. I didn't spend too much time on it, it might be horribly flawed. Anyways, the result seems to make sense: if you like 0 runes, the result is 0. If you like them all, it's 1. Non-negative and normed, looks good. So for my set of 44 runes, I get a 64% chance instead of the 47% without recombining. That buffs my expected value by 36%, so it's 444 IP for 375 invested. That is 18% profit. So if my math and all assumptions are right, and if you strictly recombine you can get away with a solid profit. If you don't want all of those 44 runes, the profit will probably be lower though. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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TL Blazeraid
566 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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red_b
United States1267 Posts
I really with they woud raise the IP gain rate. like, a lot. still missing a good 6 or 7 heroes I think I need to have to play ranked. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On May 21 2011 03:37 spinesheath wrote: So I just whipped up a spreadsheet: http://www.mediafire.com/file/ohpob1v761b9p3j/runes.ods A 1 means that you want this rune, a 0 means that you don't want it. I did a quick selection of 44 runes (of the 93 total) I would keep. Some of those runes I probably would't keep on second thought... Result: expected value of 327 IP, with a combine cost of 375 IP. Sure you can add a bunch more, but you'll HAVE to add them to make profit. Now for recombining T3 runes: I constructed some formula that is supposed to describe the chance that I get one of my desired x runes if I recombine all the runes I don't want. t is the total number of runes, 93. The formula is: (x/t)*sum[from i=0 to infinity]{((t-x)/(2*t))^i} which should evaluate to (2*x)/(t+x). Reason: first I have a chance of x/t, then for the rest (t-x)/t I have half the chance and so on. I didn't spend too much time on it, it might be horribly flawed. Anyways, the result seems to make sense: if you like 0 runes, the result is 0. If you like them all, it's 1. Non-negative and normed, looks good. So for my set of 44 runes, I get a 64% chance instead of the 47% without recombining. That buffs my expected value by 36%, so it's 444 IP for 375 invested. That is 18% profit. So if my math and all assumptions are right, and if you strictly recombine you can get away with a solid profit. If you don't want all of those 44 runes, the profit will probably be lower though. http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=493061 this was made a while back | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
They seriously seem to be getting stronger and stronger... isn't this just power creep? On May 21 2011 03:39 HazMat wrote: Hypothetically speaking. If you were to watch a video of LoL gameplay would you rather see high quality or high fps? high fps | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
On May 21 2011 06:17 UniversalSnip wrote: does anyone else feel like there's something seriously wrong with riot's pre-release evaluation process of champs? They seriously seem to be getting stronger and stronger... isn't this just power creep? It just varies between heroes. Vayne: Major pubstomper, not totally imba but quite strong with an advantage. Rumble: asdf tanky, lots of damage. Pretty strong. Brand: nope. Lee Sin: nope. Nocturne: was definitely imba on release. Now is just strong. Jarvan: lolimba Maokai: undervalued but not superstrong by any means. Karma: no way is Karma imba Renekton: patch preview, imba. on release, underpowered. buffed a little, imba. Besides, none of the new champions are anywhere near on-release Udyr, Poppy, or Corki. Riot has, in fact, learned quite a bit. (though most of the problem with poppy was her Q being bugged) | ||
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Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On May 21 2011 06:31 Tooplark wrote: It just varies between heroes. Vayne: Major pubstomper, not totally imba but quite strong with an advantage. Rumble: asdf tanky, lots of damage. Pretty strong. Brand: nope. Lee Sin: nope. Nocturne: was definitely imba on release. Now is just strong. Jarvan: lolimba Maokai: undervalued but not superstrong by any means. Karma: no way is Karma imba Renekton: patch preview, imba. on release, underpowered. buffed a little, imba. Besides, none of the new champions are anywhere near on-release Udyr, Poppy, or Corki. Riot has, in fact, learned quite a bit. (though most of the problem with poppy was her Q being bugged) you forgot on release Vlad / Xin  at release poppy was so fun, ran into 5 guys killed 3 and ran away. | ||
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0123456789
United States3216 Posts
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
On May 21 2011 06:19 HazMat wrote: I lowered my quality from very high to medium and I went from 30-45 fps. It's a pretty big difference O.O I play on lowest settings and get 10fps in teamfights huehuehue | ||
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