• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:29
CEST 21:29
KST 04:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!1Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters0Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)65Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format16[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!18
StarCraft 2
General
How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" [D] Wireframe Casting Removed
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together
Brood War
General
How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut? BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Role of Gaming on Mental Hea…
TrAiDoS
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4778 users

[HGC] Coaches, Talking Numbers

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
Post a Reply
TL.net ESPORTS
Profile Joined July 2011
4 Posts
October 08 2018 16:49 GMT
#1

Coaches and the HGC


Part 2: Talking Numbers


Written by: Kozanrov



Previously on the HGC Coaches series, we learnt the basics on Heroes of the Storm coaches, what they do, the different approaches a coach can take and the reasons why we don’t hear often about them. In case you missed it, you still can read Part 1.

The Coaches’ Performance



Different people from the Heroes competitive scene have shared their thoughts about coaching, but what’s the real impact of coaches?

To analyze it, we’ve taken the results of HGC teams for all the four major regions, including the standings of 2018 HGC Phase 2 after playoffs for North America, Europe and China (Season 4) and before playoffs for South Korea. The data from Eastern regions may be wrong: Blizzard still doesn’t include coaches in the official Heroes esports, so we can’t be sure about which teams have coaches and which don’t.The data used comes from Liquipedia.

The graph shows the number of teams with and without a coach per region, and the average position of this teams. The lower the average position is, the closer the position is to first place, and therefore, the more successful the team has been. The teams acknowledged as coached for this graph are: Gen.G, Ballistix, Team Dignitas, Team Liquid, Fnatic, Method, HeroesHearth, Tempo Storm, Team Freedom, Team Octalysis, LFM Esports, Simplicity, RPG and Chall Enge.







In order to have some perspective on those raw numbers, the highest average position a group of two teams can have is 1.5, and the worse is 7.5. For a group of four teams, the best would be 2.5, and the worst 6.5. And for a group of six teams, the best would be 3.5 and the worst 5.5.

Comparing the results with the theoretical values, we can see that the performance of coached teams is overall good, being close to a perfect score in Korea and the Western regions. However, Chinese trend is completely opposite to the others. This can be a result of their late entrance into the coaching world: Tseron, Korean coach for CE and former player for GLuck, joined the team in July, before GHL Season 3 playoffs. The other coach in China, chicken, joined RPG in late August. They may still need time to adapt to their new surroundings, but the fact is that none of them qualified for Finals.

Regional Differences


When comparing the more reliable data on the Western regions, the main issue is the different number of coached teams between North America and Europe. In Europe, only half of the teams have a coach compared to North America’s six out of the eight teams having one. The rest did however have a coach back in Phase 1 (CavalierGuest for Gale Force Esports, now Endemic, and Yuuj and Kubie for No Tomorrow). Also, NA has a more ingrained coaching tradition, with coaches before HGC era—as an example, Gale Force already had coaches in the Cloud9 days.

Despite this coaching tradition, North American teams still struggle when playing internationally against Korea or Europe. Team Liquid coach Zoos used to play in North America before coaching in Europe, and has been part of teams such as Panda Global, Team Blaze or Vox Nihili. His role as a coach is focused on both strategy and draft planning and facilitating a positive and useful practice environment for the players. As a connoisseur of both regions, he sheds some light on the regional differences:



”In Heroes the European players are much more mature than the North American ones on average. I think the European players take it more seriously and are more committed to improvement. They are hungrier for success. I think European players have more respect for practice time as well. It was very common in the North American scene when I was still playing/coaching for players to sleep right until scrim time, be late to scrims, or just not show up at all on a few occasions. Also, there was a lot of internal conflict that would not get resolved due to players holding grudges (this occurs in EU too, but maybe a bit less). As it has been a while since I was involved in the NA scene, some of these things could have improved.“


Necessity of Coaches



As we’ve seen before, there are still many teams without a coach among the HGC regions. European teams without coaches, Zealots and Leftovers, managed to get second place at the 2018 Western Clashes, and now Leftovers is even going to the finals. If those teams can compete against coached teams, are coaches really necessary?

Coaches have reached out to Open Division teams, with the most notorious example of this being ePunks, coached by Sarly21. They won six out of seven European OD cups, becoming the first team ever to pass the 800 points milestone, something that solid HGC teams such as Leftovers or HeroesHearth couldn’t do (both got 720, though HeroesHearth lost their points from first two cups). Then after achieving that record, they were disappointingly beaten by the not-coached Holy Bananas at the OD Playoffs. We’ve talked to Olf, the melee player for Holy Bananas who recently subbed for Granit Gaming in HGC against Leftovers:

”Even though it’s true that more and more teams have coaches, even in OD, I don’t feel like it’s necessary, at least not at that level. I think the most important part that a coach has to cover is the scheduling, which is not too hard to do by yourself. For the analytical part I think the coach needs to have a very good qualification to be useful, and since the amount of coaches that cover that is limited it’s rough to get a good one in OD. If we get to HGC we are obviously not going to refuse taking one if a talented person is up for it, but we are also not going to force it too hard.“


From their American counterparts, OD champions Scythe Esports, we have Nintorii, their support player.

”Crunkjuice, former coach of ex-HGC team B-step has been assisting Scythe Esports with some things quietly for this split of Open Division, but his involvement has been limited due to some personal obligations on top of our relatively unscathed run through Open Division. If everything goes according to plan and we make it into HGC, I imagine his involvement as our personal coach is going to increase quite a bit.“







Thus far we’ve gotten to know the effectiveness of coaches from a statistical perspective, seen the impact they have on their teams throughout the different regions and questioned whether coaches are necessary. But to all those who think that’s everything, fear not: the HGC Coaches series is not over yet.

Next week: HGC Coaches Part 3: How Coaches are Born.

Thanks to all the people involved in the project, don’t forget to follow them on social media.

  • Zoos
  • Olf
  • Nintorii



Check out our latest articles:
Coaches and the HGC: Part 1
Game Design and Balance AMA Recap
Music of the Storm: The Battle Begins
Interview with Quackniix
Japanese heroes join the Nexus
Roll20’s Journey back to HGC



Writer(s): Koznarov
Editor(s): Buckingham
Formatting: EsportsJohn
Design: shiroiusagi
Art Credit: Blizzard, Dylan Esguerra


TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#59
RotterdaM1307
TaKeTV 597
TKL 495
SteadfastSC237
IndyStarCraft 228
BRAT_OK 161
ZombieGrub113
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1307
TKL 495
SteadfastSC 237
IndyStarCraft 228
BRAT_OK 161
ZombieGrub113
elazer 65
RushiSC 61
StarCraft: Brood War
Dewaltoss 166
firebathero 113
Free 42
HiyA 26
910 23
Hm[arnc] 22
Bale 11
IntoTheRainbow 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
Dota 2
420jenkins1274
League of Legends
Trikslyr76
KnowMe54
Counter-Strike
fl0m1743
ScreaM1329
FalleN 1241
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu424
Khaldor212
Other Games
Grubby2549
ceh9821
uThermal420
B2W.Neo305
Pyrionflax190
shahzam169
Harstem145
UpATreeSC130
JuggernautJason74
Livibee64
QueenE45
MindelVK32
Rex17
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2014
BasetradeTV217
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 197
• Reevou 9
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 27
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1165
Other Games
• imaqtpie759
• Shiphtur527
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
1d 4h
The PondCast
1d 14h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 15h
OSC
2 days
CrankTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Clem vs ByuN
Serral vs SHIN
Online Event
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs Solar
Rogue vs Lambo
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E3

Ongoing

Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.