• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:25
CEST 05:25
KST 12:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon98Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Has online-only competition during the pandemic changed your enjoyment of pro SC2? How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week #92
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Remastered crash fix suggestions Syncronization issues and can't find games a Announcement on the JEDI Ringing ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D The Casual Games of the Week Thread Small VOD Thread 2.0 BWCL Season 65 Announcement
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10318 users

[HGC] Coaches, Talking Numbers

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
Post a Reply
TL.net ESPORTS
Profile Joined July 2011
4 Posts
October 08 2018 16:49 GMT
#1

Coaches and the HGC


Part 2: Talking Numbers


Written by: Kozanrov



Previously on the HGC Coaches series, we learnt the basics on Heroes of the Storm coaches, what they do, the different approaches a coach can take and the reasons why we don’t hear often about them. In case you missed it, you still can read Part 1.

The Coaches’ Performance



Different people from the Heroes competitive scene have shared their thoughts about coaching, but what’s the real impact of coaches?

To analyze it, we’ve taken the results of HGC teams for all the four major regions, including the standings of 2018 HGC Phase 2 after playoffs for North America, Europe and China (Season 4) and before playoffs for South Korea. The data from Eastern regions may be wrong: Blizzard still doesn’t include coaches in the official Heroes esports, so we can’t be sure about which teams have coaches and which don’t.The data used comes from Liquipedia.

The graph shows the number of teams with and without a coach per region, and the average position of this teams. The lower the average position is, the closer the position is to first place, and therefore, the more successful the team has been. The teams acknowledged as coached for this graph are: Gen.G, Ballistix, Team Dignitas, Team Liquid, Fnatic, Method, HeroesHearth, Tempo Storm, Team Freedom, Team Octalysis, LFM Esports, Simplicity, RPG and Chall Enge.







In order to have some perspective on those raw numbers, the highest average position a group of two teams can have is 1.5, and the worse is 7.5. For a group of four teams, the best would be 2.5, and the worst 6.5. And for a group of six teams, the best would be 3.5 and the worst 5.5.

Comparing the results with the theoretical values, we can see that the performance of coached teams is overall good, being close to a perfect score in Korea and the Western regions. However, Chinese trend is completely opposite to the others. This can be a result of their late entrance into the coaching world: Tseron, Korean coach for CE and former player for GLuck, joined the team in July, before GHL Season 3 playoffs. The other coach in China, chicken, joined RPG in late August. They may still need time to adapt to their new surroundings, but the fact is that none of them qualified for Finals.

Regional Differences


When comparing the more reliable data on the Western regions, the main issue is the different number of coached teams between North America and Europe. In Europe, only half of the teams have a coach compared to North America’s six out of the eight teams having one. The rest did however have a coach back in Phase 1 (CavalierGuest for Gale Force Esports, now Endemic, and Yuuj and Kubie for No Tomorrow). Also, NA has a more ingrained coaching tradition, with coaches before HGC era—as an example, Gale Force already had coaches in the Cloud9 days.

Despite this coaching tradition, North American teams still struggle when playing internationally against Korea or Europe. Team Liquid coach Zoos used to play in North America before coaching in Europe, and has been part of teams such as Panda Global, Team Blaze or Vox Nihili. His role as a coach is focused on both strategy and draft planning and facilitating a positive and useful practice environment for the players. As a connoisseur of both regions, he sheds some light on the regional differences:



”In Heroes the European players are much more mature than the North American ones on average. I think the European players take it more seriously and are more committed to improvement. They are hungrier for success. I think European players have more respect for practice time as well. It was very common in the North American scene when I was still playing/coaching for players to sleep right until scrim time, be late to scrims, or just not show up at all on a few occasions. Also, there was a lot of internal conflict that would not get resolved due to players holding grudges (this occurs in EU too, but maybe a bit less). As it has been a while since I was involved in the NA scene, some of these things could have improved.“


Necessity of Coaches



As we’ve seen before, there are still many teams without a coach among the HGC regions. European teams without coaches, Zealots and Leftovers, managed to get second place at the 2018 Western Clashes, and now Leftovers is even going to the finals. If those teams can compete against coached teams, are coaches really necessary?

Coaches have reached out to Open Division teams, with the most notorious example of this being ePunks, coached by Sarly21. They won six out of seven European OD cups, becoming the first team ever to pass the 800 points milestone, something that solid HGC teams such as Leftovers or HeroesHearth couldn’t do (both got 720, though HeroesHearth lost their points from first two cups). Then after achieving that record, they were disappointingly beaten by the not-coached Holy Bananas at the OD Playoffs. We’ve talked to Olf, the melee player for Holy Bananas who recently subbed for Granit Gaming in HGC against Leftovers:

”Even though it’s true that more and more teams have coaches, even in OD, I don’t feel like it’s necessary, at least not at that level. I think the most important part that a coach has to cover is the scheduling, which is not too hard to do by yourself. For the analytical part I think the coach needs to have a very good qualification to be useful, and since the amount of coaches that cover that is limited it’s rough to get a good one in OD. If we get to HGC we are obviously not going to refuse taking one if a talented person is up for it, but we are also not going to force it too hard.“


From their American counterparts, OD champions Scythe Esports, we have Nintorii, their support player.

”Crunkjuice, former coach of ex-HGC team B-step has been assisting Scythe Esports with some things quietly for this split of Open Division, but his involvement has been limited due to some personal obligations on top of our relatively unscathed run through Open Division. If everything goes according to plan and we make it into HGC, I imagine his involvement as our personal coach is going to increase quite a bit.“







Thus far we’ve gotten to know the effectiveness of coaches from a statistical perspective, seen the impact they have on their teams throughout the different regions and questioned whether coaches are necessary. But to all those who think that’s everything, fear not: the HGC Coaches series is not over yet.

Next week: HGC Coaches Part 3: How Coaches are Born.

Thanks to all the people involved in the project, don’t forget to follow them on social media.

  • Zoos
  • Olf
  • Nintorii



Check out our latest articles:
Coaches and the HGC: Part 1
Game Design and Balance AMA Recap
Music of the Storm: The Battle Begins
Interview with Quackniix
Japanese heroes join the Nexus
Roll20’s Journey back to HGC



Writer(s): Koznarov
Editor(s): Buckingham
Formatting: EsportsJohn
Design: shiroiusagi
Art Credit: Blizzard, Dylan Esguerra


TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
ISSL Monthly #1 - Day 1
CranKy Ducklings118
LiquipediaDiscussion
OSC
22:00
Masters Cup #151
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4112
GuemChi 2042
Shuttle 170
Dota 2
febbydoto536
NeuroSwarm177
PGG 82
Counter-Strike
taco 440
Other Games
summit1g12281
C9.Mang0341
PiGStarcraft332
WinterStarcraft301
XaKoH 181
Livibee130
ViBE58
Mew2King45
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1895
BasetradeTV23
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 72
• Letter146
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki150
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1032
• Lourlo518
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
7h 35m
herO vs SHIN
Percival vs ByuN
RotterdaM Event
12h 50m
Replay Cast
20h 35m
GSL
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
GSL
2 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
2 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.