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Developer group interview at Heroes of the Dorm

Forum Index > Heroes of the Storm
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Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-08 23:00:45
May 07 2015 18:46 GMT
#1

Developer Group Interview



Last week at Heroes of the Dorm there was a short sit down with two of the developers (John Hodgson and Kent-Erik Hagman) where the group got to ask them questions. Mostly general media, I think me and GMarshal were the only esports people in the room, but they had decent questions.

I promptly forgot about it until that Developer Insight post came up. Here are the notes I took during it and the questions people asked—it was mostly normal Blizzard types of responses but there are a few nuggets (like knowing Lost Vikings are probably too strong but not wanting to axe their experience gain). There was a lag of 8 days in between when I took these notes and wrote this so don't take this as gospel.


Whats up with Hero release rates? They've gone down rather than up.

Blizzard is aware that people want Hero releases quicker and that instead of holding to the 1 a month it's actually been longer. They're looking at how to do it, with June 2nd coming up they view this as "Day 1" and will be attempting to adjust the frequency to more, though there's no telling on what that might look like.


June 2nd seems early for full release given it only recently went into beta and still isn't in open beta. Why that date?

Internally they consider their design goals to be met for release (I belive this refers to Hero and map battleground pool). The servers are doing well, they're happy with the state of the backend and so they are comfortable with it being ready structurally. They ended by saying "to not beat around the bush lets accept it that beta is basically released anyway".


Any plans for changes between now and release?

Big plans but we can't say what yet!


Will the map system grow?

They're entertaining ideas of a map rotation system, maybe with vetos and maybe not. They want maps to be very functional and polished and right now are looking to design the game (heroes/talents I guess) around the current set of maps.

Note that in past press conferences at Blizzcon 2013/14 they pimped a map rotation system highly so this marks a change in approach.


Matchmaking wise, will there be any adjustments to quick match so you can play with team composition in any way?

They're willing to look at it and tinker with it but the playerbase is too small right now to realistically push out any major changes. As it gets bigger they will re-evaluate if there is more clear feedback on what players want there.


How many active players?

Can't talk about it.


Balance: how hard is it to bring characters up vs nerfing them to bring characters down? How does that process work?

They feel every hero should be viable in some ways, even if their niche is very narrow. Its difficult to make people better without risking fucking the meta. They're constantly watching events, reading forums, playing themselves to make sure everything feels "powerful". Winrates help make that decision, they want each hero to be distinct but also have viability and want all of them to be special. It's okay if some characters aren't good in all scenarios but are only workable in specific teams. Longterm they will try to stay careful with it.


What are plans for future events? Will Heroes have a WCS?

Blizzcon will have a finals, ideas are still being ironed out. They want Blizzcon to be an amazing event that's grand in scale.


There are a lot of maps to the table early, something other MOBAs don't do. Can we expect similar pace of map releases?

They feel there is still a lot of space to grow in hero design, and the same is true for maps. There are lots of mechanics they are testing internally and working out but nothing they're ready to talk about.

They have some guys that are mostly focused on maps, some that are focused on heroes. The team divides the design work that way.

(I wrote a big HEHEHEH here in my notes, and had I been doing this on real paper and not a laptop I would have doodled something obscene).


About skins, will we see more?

There will be more exclusive, limited release skins in the future. Maybe stuff for special events.


Will there be a StarCraft tank? Will there be a Diablo support hero?

Yes, "we apologize to all the players who cannot double dip on daily quests". They now realize how much people want to be able to clear multiple quests at once.


Can you talk about how you choose what next hero will be?

In the past this was very willy nilly, just sort of doing whatever seemed cool and fun. They're now in a position where they realize they (largely by accident) have 75% characters from Warcraft, and some franchises don't have certain roles. In the future they're going to try to plan it out more so that it's more balanced across those things.

(Keep in mind the next hero seems to be another Warcraft character so draw your own conclusions here).


Events like Heroes of the Dorm, what do the developers take away from this?

"I found a bug!"

They learn stuff all the time from competitive players. They admit they're not the best at the game so they look to competitions for feedback. Internally the team loves seeing lesser used heroes like Tyreal/Kerrigan getting played in HotD, wonder how much more they will see them in the future.

ETC is a good example of something they haven't touched on the design side, but went through a change where everyone picked Mosh Pit but now Stage Dive tends to be favored.


How did the idea for Heroes of the Dorm come up?

"Esports team. We're terrible at all non-development things so its good they do it."


Whats it like for you seeing it on ESPN?

Makes tear motion.

Games have come a long way. Been a dream forever. Surreal seeing their creation on TV. Not sure where it's going. This is the seed, it's not done yet. It may go somewhere, it may not.


Has twitch influenced your decisions in the dev cycle?

"It slowed down development because we watch it too much."

"We do try to design the game so that its fun to watch. Having a game that's clear and seems exciting and fun is something that gets people interested in it". They look at readability from art standpoint, clarity of purpose in mechanics from the design side. As an example, ETC is big. He looks like he can take a hit. It's good that his role is a tank, it fits him.

Blizzard design philosophy is to re-evaluate and do what helps make it a better experience. StarCraft II was really dictated by watch-ability but Heroes is less so.


Are Lost Vikings too powerful for lane soaking etc?

They think Vikings might be too powerful, and suspected they were probably too strong from the start but they can't play them to the level to have been sure on it. They agree his lane soaking ability is probably too good.

There might be a way to allow that mechanic to stay but find a new way to approach it, but they don't know how to address yet. There are a lot of ideas on the table—they don't like the normal suggestion of lowering their experience percentage per viking because it's hard to understand as a viewer or player. Looking to change them in some other way.


How hard do you examine heroes that are first launched? How hard do you look at them?

"Haha, not hard enough, they still catch me off guard".

Internally they are working months ahead so sometimes thing slip through and they don't realize how powerful a character is. Additionally it might take players a long time to adjust to a new hero so it's hard to know immediately. They try to look at it holistically and let it cook in player's minds for a while.

Writer(s): Heyoka
Graphics & Format: shiroiusagi
Art Credit: Blizzard
Special Thanks John Hodgson and Kent-Erik Hagman
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45767 Posts
May 07 2015 19:09 GMT
#2
Thanks for posting this!

I really do hope we get to see more maps and a map veto system!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Zidane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1689 Posts
May 07 2015 19:11 GMT
#3
Insightful answers for once
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45767 Posts
May 07 2015 19:18 GMT
#4
but there are a few nuggets (like knowing Lost Vikings are probably too strong but not wanting to axe their experience gain).


Why don't they just change the amount of experience that each Viking gives? Make it like 1/2 for 1 Viking, 3/4 for 2 Vikings, and full experience soak if all 3 Vikings are in the same lane, or 1/3 each or something (and if there are other heroes in a viking lane, that exp soak overrides the viking fractions). Or some other number-fidgeting.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Valiver
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Caldeum1977 Posts
May 07 2015 19:25 GMT
#5
On May 08 2015 04:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
but there are a few nuggets (like knowing Lost Vikings are probably too strong but not wanting to axe their experience gain).


Why don't they just change the amount of experience that each Viking gives? Make it like 1/2 for 1 Viking, 3/4 for 2 Vikings, and full experience soak if all 3 Vikings are in the same lane, or 1/3 each or something (and if there are other heroes in a viking lane, that exp soak overrides the viking fractions). Or some other number-fidgeting.

Probably because to Blizzard's mind the players are delicate and it would be too confusing.

I would be fine with lowering the xp each gets, but I'd rather see longboat get nerfed a bit first.
Writer
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
May 07 2015 19:25 GMT
#6
Read the full text they answered that! Said they weren't a fan of it because it's hard to understand as a player or viewer.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
May 07 2015 19:29 GMT
#7
On May 08 2015 04:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
but there are a few nuggets (like knowing Lost Vikings are probably too strong but not wanting to axe their experience gain).


Why don't they just change the amount of experience that each Viking gives? Make it like 1/2 for 1 Viking, 3/4 for 2 Vikings, and full experience soak if all 3 Vikings are in the same lane, or 1/3 each or something (and if there are other heroes in a viking lane, that exp soak overrides the viking fractions). Or some other number-fidgeting.



On May 08 2015 03:46 Heyoka wrote:
Are Lost Vikings too powerful for lane soaking etc?

They think Vikings might be too powerful, and suspected they were probably too strong from the start but they can't play them to the level to have been sure on it. They agree his lane soaking ability is probably too good.

There might be a way to allow that mechanic to stay but find a new way to approach it, but they don't know how to address yet. There are a lot of ideas on the table—they don't like the normal suggestion of lowering their experience percentage per viking because it's hard to understand as a viewer or player. Looking to change them in some other way.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
Hollowness
Profile Joined April 2015
5 Posts
May 07 2015 19:34 GMT
#8
So MMS will keep been trash for months after release xD.. good to know
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
May 07 2015 19:55 GMT
#9
Great read, thanks Heyoka for doing god's work <3
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45767 Posts
May 07 2015 21:04 GMT
#10
On May 08 2015 04:25 Heyoka wrote:
Read the full text they answered that! Said they weren't a fan of it because it's hard to understand as a player or viewer.


Yeah but I think they should care more about the game being balanced than how annoying it is to explain fractions to people. The logistics just boil down to "Vikings soak less exp than other heroes because there are three of them that can split up, and this adjustment keeps the game balanced".

That explanation will satisfy 99% of players, and the other 1% are willing to look into the specific fractions and other nuances on their own.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Random_0
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1163 Posts
May 07 2015 23:53 GMT
#11
The change in the Lost Vikings that makes the most sense is to decrease the range for which the LV can soak. If you make each Viking have to stand closer to the creep wave to get credit for XP, this rewards micro-intensive players who can do a great job multi-tasking while also punishing those who simply stand there and lead the team in XP.

Plus, forcing the LV to stand closer makes them more vulnerable, and they are easier to gank if they're not supported.
Pwere
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1557 Posts
May 08 2015 03:01 GMT
#12
I think the easiest change would be to make one Viking the Hero, possibly determined by the first talent you pick. Only the Hero can soak XP and claim objectives (Dragon Knight, Terror, etc.)

This way makes it pretty easy for new players/viewers to know what's going on, and it adds depth to the trio.
Gfire
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1699 Posts
May 08 2015 18:57 GMT
#13
On May 08 2015 06:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 08 2015 04:25 Heyoka wrote:
Read the full text they answered that! Said they weren't a fan of it because it's hard to understand as a player or viewer.


Yeah but I think they should care more about the game being balanced than how annoying it is to explain fractions to people. The logistics just boil down to "Vikings soak less exp than other heroes because there are three of them that can split up, and this adjustment keeps the game balanced".

That explanation will satisfy 99% of players, and the other 1% are willing to look into the specific fractions and other nuances on their own.

Seems like the obvious change but IMO it would be good to stick to the design goal of keeping the exp gain standardized and look for another change to counteract it. Completely forbidding any hero that gains exp faster than others seems like it would restrict design and reduce variety. It should just be weaker in other aspects, I think.

Sticking to these sort of goals also tends to force creativity in game design. It's not %100 necessary as a simple explanation would be fine for a lot of people, but it's definitely better to have as few things to explain as possible, and striving for those goals, even if it's harder to design, is a good thing.

I can say personally Heroes is only interesting to me because it's easy to learn and understand. I don't have the time to learn everything and hear all the explanations for LoL or DotA. That's the biggest thing this game has going for it over those, and I can testify there's a market hungry for that because I'm in it.

I hate their usual explanation of "confusion" and everything as it's kind of insulting, and they do a poor job explaining it, but I generally stand by these types of design goals Blizzard often has. If they can come up with a more creative solution that's not only easier to understand, but maybe better in general, then that's better in the long run even if it takes them a while to come up with it.

StarCraft II was really dictated by watch-ability but Heroes is less so.

This was the most interesting note for me out of all this.
all's fair in love and melodies
lestye
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4208 Posts
May 09 2015 01:39 GMT
#14
Hey Heyoka, huge props on the questions/interviews. You ask better questions than anyone.

One thing I'd really love to ask if I could, is why sometimes they hire different VAs. Some of the WC3 characters' voices seem so lame compared in WOW and Heroes.

That being said, maybe there's an old school fan who hates WC3/WoW because they replaced Warcraft II's voice for Grom:

"You guys are just edgelords. Embrace your inner weeb desu" -Zergneedsfood
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
May 09 2015 11:10 GMT
#15
So are they going to add possibility to click friendly/enemy minions/buildings/heroes?
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
Darkened
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Bulgaria105 Posts
May 09 2015 17:22 GMT
#16
What is it with nobody being able to type TYRAEL's name properly and instead do TYREAL. Honestly. Other than that it's pretty standard Blizzard, not sure why all the writer comments like "...would have doodled something obscene." and "Makes a tear motion.".
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
May 09 2015 18:42 GMT
#17
The tear motion was what they were doing, not me. Sorry for the confusuion!
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
JCoto
Profile Joined October 2014
Spain574 Posts
May 10 2015 10:15 GMT
#18
On May 08 2015 12:01 Pwere wrote:
I think the easiest change would be to make one Viking the Hero, possibly determined by the first talent you pick. Only the Hero can soak XP and claim objectives (Dragon Knight, Terror, etc.)

This way makes it pretty easy for new players/viewers to know what's going on, and it adds depth to the trio.


Then the whole purpose of Lost Vikings is gone.

The intention behind Lost Vikings was to provide an specialist that could be in various lanes at the same time, and could be split all the time at their will, but being shit in direct combat. Lost Vikings were designed as experience soaker, that rewarded player multitasking from split pushing, and allowed the player to achieve good experience soak and help at getting mechanics out, even if Vikings were killed since they are very fragile.

There's no point of making such change when they can effectively tune exp soak ratios, making the design solid. If you intdroduce "1 is the hero, other 2 are minions" you've removed almost all the utility from the Vikings. And it's a present for the enemies. They see the "Hero" viking, focus it, then you are useless.

I like the current direction of changes. The longboat has been broken since day 1 and the other ultimate doesn't really provide interesting mechanics that show benefit over the boat.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
May 10 2015 10:41 GMT
#19
I'm pretty sure the idea behind TLV was the ability to have unique heroes, that each served a specific purpose for your team (e.g Eric being fast and having scout talents increasing roam potential as well as CC, Olaf being a "tank" and Baelog being a wave-clearer), but right now the only unique thing about TLV is the exp soak that we all know them for.

I still believe that having to unlock your Q-W-E is really what gave vikings their current state. I can't go for anything useful to enhance each individual viking, instead I'm forced to pick my basic abilities every single time in every single game, while also only being useful as an exp-soaker until i'm level 10.

If they somehow made QoL changes that actually gave them their QWE from lvl 1 (with less power of course), so you could actually try for the Erik-run-and-stun or the Olaf-charge-stun. But right now, it's simply not possible.
hi
Kotreb
Profile Joined June 2011
Croatia1392 Posts
May 10 2015 12:19 GMT
#20
Would love to see map veto, voice comms and ability to control minions after dying.
If you don't sin Jesus died for nothing.
Footler
Profile Joined January 2010
United States560 Posts
May 11 2015 13:32 GMT
#21
Interesting change of approach on maps. I'd imagine maps take quite a bit of work to design and balance so having them occasionally drop out of rotation could be rough. Perhaps with the map editor Blizzard can do like sc2 and rotate/add in community maps.
I am The-Sink! Parting bandwagoner before it became a soul train.
NihilisticGod
Profile Joined March 2011
Northern Ireland174 Posts
May 11 2015 18:11 GMT
#22
Nice read, thanks Heyoka!
Too weird to live... too rare to die.
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